Immigration Battle 2009-10

[A.J.]

We already allow over 1 million people here with work visas student visas etc. I also have stated numerous times before that I would accept having a guest worker program, and at the end of the season they must return to ther countries and apply again.

I've proposed the same thing too based on what I see in the Middle East guest worker system. Let's be honest though: that's glorified slavery. But, if we can use the documentation/regulation practices of that system and apply our own system of protections and rights to it, it could work.

[Barnaby Jones]

Gee you really don't get it. Illegals might pay sales tax and some might file a return, However when they get a refund in the amount larger than their tax bill they might pay taxes, but they are not taxpayers. When they consume more in sociual services than they contribute they are a drain on our economy...Simple math you clod.

Simple math you've yet to back up! Go ahead, post another link that shows the drain...without comparing it to the projections as to what we "make" off of them!

[Barnaby Jones]

Amazing how you forget the numerous times I said to crackdown on the employers, landlords etc. They are part of thr problem. Its a supply and demand issue. The illegals are the supply and there is a demand for cheap labor. Should I explain it to you en espanol? If there are no incentives for them to come here ie. Welfare, foodstamps automatic citizenship etc. They will not come and for the ones who are already here if all forms of assistance are cut off, they will leave. Thus inhibiting people from coming here illegally.

We already allow over 1 million people here with work visas student visas etc. I also have stated numerous times before that I would accept having a guest worker program, and at the end of the season they must return to ther countries and apply again.

Your juvenile approach is that I hate Brown people when its not the case. Come here the right way like millions of other people have. We can not afford to be a soup kitchen.

No, your approach is ass-backwards!!! If your focus was where it should be you'd be constantly bombarding us with stories of people who are exploiting illegals instead of going out of your way to paint illegals themselves as the main problem so that you can justify wanting mass deportations and "starving them out" and shit like that!!! They're coming here because there's the demand for them!!! Cut off the source of that demand and you see results!!!

And you're completely missing the fucking point with work visas!!! Why do you feel that people who want to move here permanently should only be given work visas?!?! Our immigration process is a tedious, convoluted, time-wasting mess and is the main reason illegals come here illegally!!! Streamline the process for immigration while cracking down on exploiters of illegals and you'd see the most significant drop in illegal immigration (especially since it would make it so much more difficult for people to exploit them), especially when compared to your "starve them out" nonsense!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Simple math you've yet to back up! Go ahead, post another link that shows the drain...without comparing it to the projections as to what we "make" off of them!

I really hate repeating myself.


http://www.fairus.org/site/News2/211737594?page=NewsArticle&id=23190&security=1601&news_iv_ctrl=1761

[WRESTLINGFAN]

No, your approach is ass-backwards!!! If your focus was where it should be you'd be constantly bombarding us with stories of people who are exploiting illegals instead of going out of your way to paint illegals themselves as the main problem so that you can justify wanting mass deportations and "starving them out" and shit like that!!! They're coming here because there's the demand for them!!! Cut off the source of that demand and you see results!!!

And you're completely missing the fucking point with work visas!!! Why do you feel that people who want to move here permanently should only be given work visas?!?! Our immigration process is a tedious, convoluted, time-wasting mess and is the main reason illegals come here illegally!!! Streamline the process for immigration while cracking down on exploiters of illegals and you'd see the most significant drop in illegal immigration (especially since it would make it so much more difficult for people to exploit them), especially when compared to your "starve them out" nonsense!!!

And you didnt see where I stated that the problem lies also with the employers??? Ypu know where the demand is also? The fucking politicians who want more potential voters. They promise Amnesty and a result loyal voters for them.

We as a nation should set a limit on how many people are allowed in. Its not someones right to come here. As far as the poor downtrodden illegals you cry for, they came here VOLUNTARILY!!!! So they are not slaves, they are not property so the comparsion of an illegal to African slaves chained and shackled on cramped ships across the Atlantic is pathetic. They know that at anytime they can be deported so they have to live in fear and thats how it should be. I am not calling for all brown people to be stopped Thats a waste of resources, however if someone driving with no license insurance, doesnt speak English gets a DWI, and its deemed that he is here illegally Toss his ass out. Who cares if he has children here. He can take them with him.

Again, punish the employers and landlords, multiple offenses and they risk having the business/property seized.

If you cut off all entitlements and benefits they will leave. Starve the beast and its adios

[underdog]

I really hate repeating myself.

No, you don't. You're more one-note than Fez at this point.

[Barnaby Jones]

And you didnt see where I stated that the problem lies also with the employers???

Yeah!!! It doesn't mean shit because you always come back to this:

If you cut off all entitlements and benefits they will leave. Starve the beast and its adios

So cut the shit!!! You clearly don't want to focus on what the real draw for illegals are since you only want to paint them as scary Mexican monsters!!! Clamp down on the business and property owners who exploit illegals and you snuff out the main reasons illegals are risking coming here illegally!!! That's much more effective than doing with your stupid "punish the illegal as much as possible" approach!!! It's like you actually know what you keep suggesting won't solve anything wanthese people to suffer as much as possible!!!

Again, your focus is on the illegals: that is dumb. The main cause of illegals being here are the people who can exploit them!!! Focus on the cause and not the result or you'll always just end up being reactive!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Dream is dead. Hopefully this time its buried.


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/19/us/politics/19immig.html

[epo]

Dream is dead. Hopefully this time its buried.


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/19/us/politics/19immig.html

It will be back.

[Zorro]

It will be back.

Probably not anytime soon, but I'll take the one of two with DADT repeal.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

It will be back.

Not for at least 2 years. People are finally waking up and seeing how illegal immigration is ruining this country and politicians are finally getting the message. Its a great day for this country to see this bill killed.

[Barnaby Jones]

You are so fucking blind!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You are so fucking blind!!!


You are out of your fucking mind!!!

If you think the majority of Americans think illegal immigration is a good thing you're crazy. Then again you live in a state that has become a dumping ground from the 3rd world

[JimBeam]

With that Dream bill I can see maybe loosening the rules for people serving in the military but the college students one is baffling.

So for those that are getting an education that neither they not their parents have paid for they should be rewarded ?

It's essentially saying " Ok well you stole something but since you have it we might as well make you a citizen. "

Isn't it rewarding somebody for doing something they shouldn't be doing anyway ?

Now I haven't read the whole bill or even most of the stories but that's what I got out of it.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I read the bill and it would have allowed chain migration, we simply can not continue to be a homeless shelter. Also it allows people as old as 30 get amnesty. Why should illegals get in stAte tuition when Americans have to pay more if they are from out of state.

[foodcourtdruide]

With that Dream bill I can see maybe loosening the rules for people serving in the military but the college students one is baffling.

So for those that are getting an education that neither they not their parents have paid for they should be rewarded ?

It's essentially saying " Ok well you stole something but since you have it we might as well make you a citizen. "

Isn't it rewarding somebody for doing something they shouldn't be doing anyway ?

Now I haven't read the whole bill or even most of the stories but that's what I got out of it.

I think the point is that having a college educated person in our country will more than likely be a benefit than a negative in almost all categories anti-illegal immigrant advocates complain about. In the end, the question for sane people who don't have a mind-boggling hatred for illegal immigrants is: what benefits this country most? Are we cutting off our noses to spite our face by enforcing existing immigration laws? It seemed to me that the purpose of the DREAM Act was to draw a line between illegals that (debatably) take from the system, and illegals that (debatably) benefit the system.

[JimBeam]

But to Wrestlingfan's point we're talking about giving people a free eduction that legal citizens sometimes go into life long debt to repay.

There's something inherently wrong with that. Especially in a state like CA that's bankrupt and probably cheating it's own citizens out of a proper education.

[Dude!]

You are out of your fucking mind!!!

If you think the majority of Americans think illegal immigration is a good thing you're crazy. Then again you live in a state that has become a dumping ground from the 3rd world

why do you even bother
to argue with people who
aren't even real Americans

[foodcourtdruide]

But to Wrestlingfan's point we're talking about giving people a free eduction that legal citizens sometimes go into life long debt to repay.

There's something inherently wrong with that. Especially in a state like CA that's bankrupt and probably cheating it's own citizens out of a proper education.

I'm missing something. Where is it stated they'd get a free college education?

From Section 11 of the DREAM Act:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c111:1:./temp/~c1114GOCdu:e20533:

SEC. 11. HIGHER EDUCATION ASSISTANCE.

Notwithstanding any provision of the Higher Education Act of 1965 (20 U.S.C. 1001 et seq.), with respect to assistance provided under title IV of the Higher Education Act of 1965 (20 U.S.C. 1070 et seq.), an alien who adjusts status to that of a lawful permanent resident under this Act shall be eligible only for the following assistance under such title:

(1) Student loans under parts B, D, and E of such title IV (20 U.S.C. 1071 et seq., 1087a et seq., 1087aa et seq.), subject to the requirements of such parts.

(2) Federal work-study programs under part C of such title IV (42 U.S.C. 2751 et seq.), subject to the requirements of such part.

(3) Services under such title IV (20 U.S.C. 1070 et seq.), subject to the requirements for such services.

[foodcourtdruide]

Again, punish the employers and landlords, multiple offenses and they risk having the business/property seized.



Wow, you are a libertarian!

[Snacks]

I think the point is that having a college educated person in our country will more than likely be a benefit than a negative in almost all categories anti-illegal immigrant advocates complain about. In the end, the question for sane people who don't have a mind-boggling hatred for illegal immigrants is: what benefits this country most? Are we cutting off our noses to spite our face by enforcing existing immigration laws? It seemed to me that the purpose of the DREAM Act was to draw a line between illegals that (debatably) take from the system, and illegals that (debatably) benefit the system.

so someone who came here illegally and isnt an American citizen deserves a free education but others who are Americans get nothing, no help and if they do get help they must pay it back? I remember when I wanted to go to college we couldnt even get financial aid because they said my mother made too much money. Sorry but I dont feel sorry for people who broke our immigrations and have done nothing right when I wasnt even allowed to borrow money for college! So all the tax dollars citizens pay goes to give free education to people who dont deserve it?

[JimBeam]

I guess I miswrote. I meant a discounted education.

So if it's safe to presume that an illegal alien isn't paying out of state tuition they must be paying in state.

A person that's not even from a country is much more of an out of state student than somebody from the US.

And how are the illegals getting into college to begin with ?

[foodcourtdruide]

so someone who came here illegally and isnt an American citizen deserves a free education but others who are Americans get nothing, no help and if they do get help they must pay it back? I remember when I wanted to go to college we couldnt even get financial aid because they said my mother made too much money. Sorry but I dont feel sorry for people who broke our immigrations and have done nothing right when I wasnt even allowed to borrow money for college! So all the tax dollars citizens pay goes to give free education to people who dont deserve it?

What does that mean? "People who don't deserve it"? Who decides that?

Also, there is no "free education", that is something made up by the people who are against this bill.

And I just don't see how increasing the number of college educated americans is a bad thing. Obama nailed it with his comments today, this act was common sense. Giving people who CLEARLY want to be productive citizens and have PROVEN it an easier path to citizenship benefits this country. There is no debate.

[foodcourtdruide]

I guess I miswrote. I meant a discounted education.

So if it's safe to presume that an illegal alien isn't paying out of state tuition they must be paying in state.

A person that's not even from a country is much more of an out of state student than somebody from the US.

And how are the illegals getting into college to begin with ?

Why is it safe to presume that they'd be paying out-of-state vs in-state tuition? I have no idea if that's true.

You are making a lot of assumptions and creating scenario that may or may not exist. My only point is that the DREAM Act is more beneficial to this country than it is not. It ONLY increases the number of productive members of our society.

[Snacks]

What does that mean? "People who don't deserve it"? Who decides that?

Also, there is no "free education", that is something made up by the people who are against this bill.

And I just don't see how increasing the number of college educated americans is a bad thing. Obama nailed it with his comments today, this act was common sense. Giving people who CLEARLY want to be productive citizens and have PROVEN it an easier path to citizenship benefits this country. There is no debate.

Who deserves it? AMERICAN FUCKING CITIZENS and those who are here legally! We already cant afford the people who are here now we are expected to pay for those who came here illegally and continue to break the law every day they stay? They are basically stealing from every American and taking away for deserving Americans!

[foodcourtdruide]

Who deserves it? AMERICAN FUCKING CITIZENS and those who are here legally! We already cant afford the people who are here now we are expected to pay for those who came here illegally and continue to break the law every day they stay? They are basically stealing from every American and taking away for deserving Americans!

So even if it was proven to you that an illegal immigrant that satisfied the DREAM Act would be a net positive to this country, you wouldn't care? That's what I meant earlier about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[Snacks]

So even if it was proven to you that an illegal immigrant that satisfied the DREAM Act would be a net positive to this country, you wouldn't care? That's what I meant earlier about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

You dont think illegals hurt America and students? It cost more money because we are educating students that shouldnt be here. American students are losing out because there are more students in a classroom. Teachers needing to focus and help illegals more because of the language problem. Free food in the classrooms, over crowding etc.

No its not cutting my nose to spite my face. Allowing illegals to take away from those who are here legally or American citizens is cutting our noses to spite our face. We are helping people that dont deserve it. As populations grow we need to limit immigration. The more people that come here illegally the more it takes away from all resources! If we secured our borders, and focused on educating our citizens we would be better off. I dont feel its right that a child is losing out because an illegal is taking their spot or because money is being wasted on them when they shouldnt even be here.

The argument cant exist because there would be nothing to argue about if they didnt come here illegally. They are here illegally so they deserve nothing that other citizens are entitled to! I use this argument again. Go anywhere in the world and see what you get if you are there illegally! Nothing but arrested, deported no questions asked!

[StanUpshaw]

So even if it was proven to you that an illegal immigrant that satisfied the DREAM Act would be a net positive to this country, you wouldn't care? That's what I meant earlier about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

That is an ENORMOUS "if". One that is nowhere near clear-cut. So many unintended consequences are lurking out there for such a shake up to so many different markets.

But the financial bottom line is only one concern. Such a massive subversion of the rule of law is not something we should take lightly. You really want to make the case that any scheme is fair game as long as it adds to the coffers?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Open borders and supporters of illegal immigration stil dont fucking get it. Passage of the DREAM act would result in more people flooding the country. I know facts get in the way but the Simpson Mazzoli bill of 1986 backs everything up. There is no argueing with this you can not spin this in any way. Legalizing 3 million people led to a human tsunami and as a result 25 years later there are 20 million illegals in this country.

Once someone is legalized at age 21 this will allow them to bring in their extended families thus exploding our bloated entitlement system and creating millions more zero liability voters.

Adding to Snacks points, Felipe Calderon cries that we should babysit his unwanted but try being an illegal alien in his country. CASE FUCKING CLOSED!!!!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Wow, you are not an anarchist

Fixed

[epo]

I read the bill and it would have allowed chain migration, we simply can not continue to be a homeless shelter. Also it allows people as old as 30 get amnesty. Why should illegals get in stAte tuition when Americans have to pay more if they are from out of state.

Prove your chain immigration claim via segments of the bill.

I dare you to.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Heres how the Senators voted. Kudos to the Dems who had the spine to say no to Amnesty


http://senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=111&session=2&vote=00278#position


Wow. Juan McCain said Nay :clap:

[spoon]

Prove your chain immigration claim via segments of the bill.

I dare you to.

Aren't you an illegal immigrant from Iceland?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Prove your chain immigration claim via segments of the bill.

I dare you to.

SEC. 6. RETROACTIVE BENEFITS UNDER THIS ACT.

If, on the date of enactment of this Act, an alien has satisfied all the requirements of subparagraphs (A) through (E) of section 4(a)(1) and section 5(d)(1)(D), the Secretary of Homeland Security may adjust the status of the alien to that of a conditional resident in accordance with section 4. The alien may petition for removal of such condition at the end of the conditional residence period in accordance with section 5(c) if the alien has met the requirements of subparagraphs (A), (B), and (C) of section 5(d)(1) during the entire period of conditional residence.

Heres more
http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecenters3e2 a

[epo]

This thread has grown into a circular argument that is getting old. Here are my parting notes:

1. History. Nothing is funnier than listening to/reading American citizens who don't have a context of this nation's immigrant history or even their own family's history. In the note of each era, each of us may be surprised to learn the "legal status" of our forefathers.

2. "Lazy". Nothing is more demeaning to first-generation immigrants in this country to claim that they are here for the benefits. They are always the most screwed-over generations of any family. The saying amongst many immigrant families I know is "The first generation earns it, the second generation gets it and the third generation fucks it up." So while that first generation is doing the work that you think you are too good for, don't you dare call them fucking lazy.

3. Dream Act. The irony of the DREAM Act is that is makes the second generation immigrant earn it more than ever. It raises their level of human capital, either via military service or education, which makes us stronger in the global economy. But logic and reason don't matter in the face of fear-mongering.

4. Political Reality. There is a political reality to this issue that Republican lawmakers know and fear: This is a very bad long-term vote on their part, but necessary to keep their tea party voters happy. By the GOP stopping the DREAM Act, they have just given the Democratic Party a free wedge issue with the hispanic community. President Bush 2 knew this reality and consistently courted this group. Now a generation of hispanic voters are unreachable for the GOP. This will be a gigantic problem especially as populations shift and the US becomes a "minority majority" nation.

5. The End Game. In the end, this bill may not pass, but a bill like it will.

[spoon]

There is nothing circular with my claim. I demand to see your birth certificate Mr. Sigur Ros! Too busy playing Bjork mp3s I'm sure. Fuck ur AlCOA dam and ice bar!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

This thread has grown into a circular argument that is getting old. Here are my parting notes:

1. History. Nothing is funnier than listening to/reading American citizens who don't have a context of this nation's immigrant history or even their own family's history. In the note of each era, each of us may be surprised to learn the "legal status" of our forefathers.

Was there a United States of America and immigration laws 3 centuries ago?


2. "Lazy". Nothing is more demeaning to first-generation immigrants in this country to claim that they are here for the benefits. They are always the most screwed-over generations of any family. The saying amongst many immigrant families I know is "The first generation earns it, the second generation gets it and the third generation fucks it up." So while that first generation is doing the work that you think you are too good for, don't you dare call them fucking lazy.

Why were other waves of immigrants required to have sponsors and not be burdens to society? Americans are not lazy they wont perform jobs at slave wages. Is a 19 year old private from Kentucky dodging sniper fire and IEDs carrying 60 lbs of equipment in rugged terrain lazy?

3. Dream Act. The irony of the DREAM Act is that is makes the second generation immigrant earn it more than ever. It raises their level of human capital, either via military service or education, which makes us stronger in the global economy. But logic and reason don't matter in the face of fear-mongering.

Backdoor stealth Amnesty which will encourage more people to come here illegally

4. Political Reality. There is a political reality to this issue that Republican lawmakers know and fear: This is a very bad long-term vote on their part, but necessary to keep their tea party voters happy. By the GOP stopping the DREAM Act, they have just given the Democratic Party a free wedge issue with the hispanic community. President Bush 2 knew this reality and consistently courted this group. Now a generation of hispanic voters are unreachable for the GOP. This will be a gigantic problem especially as populations shift and the US becomes a "minority majority" nation.

The hispanic version of plantation politics. Thinking every hispanic and immigrant favors people who cut the line and demand to be rewarded.


http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20101128/NEWS03/311289933

"Many Hispanics indeed voted for the very Republican candidates that were most identified as having a pro-enforcement or anti-amnesty stance"

5. The End Game. In the end, this bill may not pass, but a bill like it will.

Another pipe dream. Amnesty failed in 2007. Americans and legal immigrants have had it with the anarchy of needy dependent people here to leech off the taxpayer.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

There is nothing circular with my claim. I demand to see your birth certificate Mr. Sigur Ros! Too busy playing Bjork mp3s I'm sure. Fuck ur AlCOA dam and ice bar!

And fuck the Brewers


Fuck Russ Feingold

[Snacks]

This thread has grown into a circular argument that is getting old. Here are my parting notes:

1. History. Nothing is funnier than listening to/reading American citizens who don't have a context of this nation's immigrant history or even their own family's history. In the note of each era, each of us may be surprised to learn the "legal status" of our forefathers.

2. "Lazy". Nothing is more demeaning to first-generation immigrants in this country to claim that they are here for the benefits. They are always the most screwed-over generations of any family. The saying amongst many immigrant families I know is "The first generation earns it, the second generation gets it and the third generation fucks it up." So while that first generation is doing the work that you think you are too good for, don't you dare call them fucking lazy.

3. Dream Act. The irony of the DREAM Act is that is makes the second generation immigrant earn it more than ever. It raises their level of human capital, either via military service or education, which makes us stronger in the global economy. But logic and reason don't matter in the face of fear-mongering.

4. Political Reality. There is a political reality to this issue that Republican lawmakers know and fear: This is a very bad long-term vote on their part, but necessary to keep their tea party voters happy. By the GOP stopping the DREAM Act, they have just given the Democratic Party a free wedge issue with the hispanic community. President Bush 2 knew this reality and consistently courted this group. Now a generation of hispanic voters are unreachable for the GOP. This will be a gigantic problem especially as populations shift and the US becomes a "minority majority" nation.

5. The End Game. In the end, this bill may not pass, but a bill like it will.

1) I know my families history and how they got here. It was documented on Ellis Island when they arrived the right way in the 1930s and 40s. As for your other part, yes many of our for fathers came here in what now would be called illegal immigration. The difference is there were no rules or laws, now there are! There also wasnt the population that there is now so land, property and resources were available. Now everything is limited and we are getting over crowded. We need for our own legal citizens not criminals. Now that laws are established people must follow them if you dont, get the fuck out!

2) agree with you to a point. The 1st generation may be working their asses off but they are also getting lots of free entitlements that previous immigrants didnt get. Their was no help or aid from the govt back then. You came here, learned english and worked. Also no one is talking about legal immigrants. If you come here illegally you have no rights to anything you arent here legally! What part of Legal and Illegal is so hard to understand?

If I jumped over my neighbors fence and drowned in their pool should my family have any right to sue or complain? Should the home owner be arrested? Should the govt help my parents? No to all because what I did was illegal, breaking and entering.

3) Lets see what they have to do. If they arent paying for it then I dont care what they do. If I have to pay for someone to get educated with my tax dollars when I wasnt allowed that chance then I say fuck them come here the right way. If you dont like the laws or the process stay the fuck out and try it somewhere else.

4) Disagree this is actually huge for the Repubs. They are getting dems to side with them. They will also keep their base. Like I said before many people both right and left dont want to see people who illegally came here get anything especially when many Americans cant get the help they need. If anything I think this helps Repubs and hurt the Dems, look at the numbers most agree to vote against this bill.

5) I hope nothing ever passes! why reward criminal activity? Why not help the Americans that are here and need help? Kick out the illegals as they are found and fine the business that hire them. Build a stronger border, and make every person who wants to come here legally go through the proper channels.

[StanUpshaw]

1) I know my families history and how they got here. It was documented on Ellis Island when they arrived the right way in the 1930s and 40s.
...
Their was no help or aid from the govt back then.

Hmmmm...

[Syd]

5) I hope nothing ever passes! why reward criminal activity? Why not help the Americans that are here and need help? Kick out the illegals as they are found and fine the business that hire them. Build a stronger border, and make every person who wants to come here legally go through the proper channels.

Capital demands extremely cheap labor. Get ready to pay $10 more on your HDTV and .10c more on your tomatoes. The second Americans realize the importance of serfs in the grand scheme of things the harder they'll rail against giving illegal immigrants any sort of status above dirt farmer.

[foodcourtdruide]

You dont think illegals hurt America and students? It cost more money because we are educating students that shouldnt be here. American students are losing out because there are more students in a classroom. Teachers needing to focus and help illegals more because of the language problem. Free food in the classrooms, over crowding etc.

No its not cutting my nose to spite my face. Allowing illegals to take away from those who are here legally or American citizens is cutting our noses to spite our face. We are helping people that dont deserve it. As populations grow we need to limit immigration. The more people that come here illegally the more it takes away from all resources! If we secured our borders, and focused on educating our citizens we would be better off. I dont feel its right that a child is losing out because an illegal is taking their spot or because money is being wasted on them when they shouldnt even be here.

The argument cant exist because there would be nothing to argue about if they didnt come here illegally. They are here illegally so they deserve nothing that other citizens are entitled to! I use this argument again. Go anywhere in the world and see what you get if you are there illegally! Nothing but arrested, deported no questions asked!

You act like the negative aspects of illegal immigrants exist in a vacuum and nothing positive comes out of them being here. I am sorry, but that is simply not the case. It is not reality. Illegal immigrants give us an extremely cheap labor force, if they come here as adults, it means we just received a poor-working class that we didn't have to put through the system as children. Do you know how valuable that is to the rest of us? Do you know how much that child sitting in the over-crowded classroom benefits from that?

[foodcourtdruide]

That is an ENORMOUS "if". One that is nowhere near clear-cut. So many unintended consequences are lurking out there for such a shake up to so many different markets.

But the financial bottom line is only one concern. Such a massive subversion of the rule of law is not something we should take lightly. You really want to make the case that any scheme is fair game as long as it adds to the coffers?

It is not an enormous "if". It is actually more likely than not that a college educated person, or someone in the military would do more good for this country than harm. If the financial bottom line was the only concern, than this bill would have passed.

[Snacks]

Yeah because saving .10 cents makes all the other expenses and problems created by illegal immigration?! Id rather pay the .20 cents extra and give our own citizens more work and a better life then making it harder for people who are here legally.

You guys make it sound like only illegals will do those jobs. Wrong, maybe avg Americans wont but if there werent so many illegals more LEGAL immigrants would do those jobs anyway. The amount of money we lose on aid, not collecting taxes, food stamps, educating is far greater then the savings we have.

A friend of mine owns a landscaping business. Ge employs only his family. He is no more expensive then the other guy who uses day workers. Because at the end of the day there is too much competition and people will only pay what they will pay. So my friend knows legal or illegal hes getting what he gets. the difference is he pays taxes on every employee. The other guy is just making more profit. So if 1 guy can do it for the same price as the other its not that the illegals are saving us money. They are just putting a larger profit in the hands of their bosses. These guys are still charging what they would charge no matter who worked for them!

At this point most Americans are tired of the negative shit illegals bring to this country. For the few things it may benefit us the bad far out ways those. One of my best friends who came here legally is more against illegals then most. They are pissed that they had to spend the money, do the right things and these people make it worse for them.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

A huge percentage of wages earned by illegals will NEVER go into our economy. It will be wired out of this country in the form of remittances. How does that help our economy?

One of Mexicos largest forms of revenue is remittances that illegals send back. This year it expects to be over 20 billion

http://remittancesgateway.org/index.php/press-clippings/flows-information/744-remittances-to-mexico-up-119-in-may

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You act like the negative aspects of illegal immigrants exist in a vacuum and nothing positive comes out of them being here. I am sorry, but that is simply not the case. It is not reality. Illegal immigrants give us an extremely cheap labor force, if they come here as adults, it means we just received a poor-working class that we didn't have to put through the system as children. Do you know how valuable that is to the rest of us? Do you know how much that child sitting in the over-crowded classroom benefits from that?

How is having 20 million needy dependent people here a benefit to us? The very little they contribute in paying sales tax dwarfs the billions they collect on entitlements, and us having to babysit them and their extended families.



Yes they might make minumum wage but no one forced them to come here. They knew the risks and dangers of being here illegally. As wrong as it might be they know that they face exploitation. If we just took the arguement at face value that only illegals would do manual labor, which isnt't true, well do you expect them to be working on Wall st or performing heart transplants ? A huge majority of them are illiterate and have almost no education. They know that they can be deported for committing a crime. So they deserve no merit. They broke the fucking law and they have the cajones to demand citizenship? No more!!!!! The spigot's run dry

[foodcourtdruide]

At this point most Americans are tired of the negative shit illegals bring to this country. For the few things it may benefit us the bad far out ways those.

The debate should really end here because we're going in circles. There is simply no proof of this statement and I think that's where our fundamental disagreement comes from.

[foodcourtdruide]

How is having 20 million needy dependent people here a benefit to us? The very little they contribute in paying sales tax dwarfs the billions they collect on entitlements, and us having to babysit them and their extended families.



Yes they might make minumum wage but no one forced them to come here. They knew the risks and dangers of being here illegally. As wrong as it might be they know that they face exploitation. If we just took the arguement at face value that only illegals would do manual labor, which isnt't true, well do you expect them to be working on Wall st or performing heart transplants ? A huge majority of them are illiterate and have almost no education. They know that they can be deported for committing a crime. So they deserve no merit. They broke the fucking law and they have the cajones to demand citizenship? No more!!!!! The spigot's run dry

Similar to my reply to Snacks, going in circles. I'll see you in the forum later when you incessantly post about prosecuting all the people who speed and smoke pot and get away with it, Johnny Law.

[Snacks]

The debate should really end here because we're going in circles. There is simply no proof of this statement and I think that's where our fundamental disagreement comes from.

polls show more and more support for anti illegals and amnesty. there are plenty of ways to prove just look at public support. I think even WF posted one of the polls that showed 70% are against any form of amnesty. Thats not even close!

[Snacks]

Similar to my reply to Snacks, going in circles. I'll see you in the forum later when you incessantly post about prosecuting all the people who speed and smoke pot and get away with it, Johnny Law.

speeding is a crime its a violation of a law. cant go to jail for speeding unless you do it drunk or kill someone. smoking pot people do go to jail. your examples prove nothing but against what you wanted them to. coming to America illegally isnt a misdemeanor its a crime against all Americans. Smoking pot doesnt harm anyone. Coming here illegally harms every single tax payer and every American who is in need of assistants but cant get it because too much money is going to people who do not deserve it. Yes illegals do not deserve any help they are here illegally!

Are you here illegally? Did your family come here illegally or do you date someone who is here illegally? Were not talking about legal immigrants who get taken advantage of, that shouldnt happen. We are talking about criminal who criminally came here. Why would anyone want to help non citizens over citizens?

[foodcourtdruide]

polls show more and more support for anti illegals and amnesty. there are plenty of ways to prove just look at public support. I think even WF posted one of the polls that showed 70% are against any form of amnesty. Thats not even close!

You know who else would be against full amnesty? Me. Count me in that 70%. The DREAM Act is not blanket amnesty, it is being spun that way though. You are blinded by your emotion for an issue, and you'd rather prove a point than solve it.

[foodcourtdruide]

speeding is a crime its a violation of a law. cant go to jail for speeding unless you do it drunk or kill someone. smoking pot people do go to jail. your examples prove nothing but against what you wanted them to. coming to America illegally isnt a misdemeanor its a crime against all Americans. Smoking pot doesnt harm anyone. Coming here illegally harms every single tax payer and every American who is in need of assistants but cant get it because too much money is going to people who do not deserve it. Yes illegals do not deserve any help they are here illegally!

Really? Pot doesn't harm tax payers? I'll go tell everyone the good news that there's no longer a war on drugs in this country and we don't spend billions of dollars enforcing it! Come on.

[foodcourtdruide]

Sorry, have to go. Wife is going to kill me.

[Snacks]

Really? Pot doesn't harm tax payers? I'll go tell everyone the good news that there's no longer a war on drugs in this country and we don't spend billions of dollars enforcing it! Come on.

no you ask about smoking pot. The war on drugs cost tax payers the individual doesnt. If we made pot legal it wouldnt get rid of the other wars on drugs. Just like if we made every illegal here legal they would still cost us tons of money because they are lower income paying less and less taxes and receiving more for less. So to allow 20-30 million people citizenship for breaking our laws is crazy and is no benefit to our nation. It will only cost us more money.

[Snacks]

You know who else would be against full amnesty? Me. Count me in that 70%. The DREAM Act is not blanket amnesty, it is being spun that way though. You are blinded by your emotion for an issue, and you'd rather prove a point than solve it.

Im against anything that rewards them for breaking the law. They have already taken advantage of Americans by living here and coming here the wrong way.

The only way I would give amnesty is if everyone got a physical, if you are sick (major sickness , disease) get out, if you have been arrested for anything since being here, get out and you must pay a fine of $10,000 for cutting the line and you have 10 years of $1000 a year in payments. Maybe then I would consider it!

[underdog]

The only way I would give amnesty is if everyone got a physical, if you are sick (major sickness , disease) get out,

Oh, man. Our society sucks.

"What's that? You're sick but you didn't happen to be born in this country? FUCK YOU. Get the fuck out. I got lucky and my mother happened to get knocked up here so that means I'm worth more than you."

USA! USA! USA!

Ugh.

[Snacks]

Oh, man. Our society sucks.

"What's that? You're sick but you didn't happen to be born in this country? FUCK YOU. Get the fuck out. I got lucky and my mother happened to get knocked up here so that means I'm worth more than you."

USA! USA! USA!

Ugh.

yes get out. we cant even take care of our own but lets support every person who came here illegally? American citizens should get and expect more. Call them lucky or whatever you want but the fact is if you are an American citizen you shouldnt get fucked because they money isnt available because its helping someone else who should even be here.

Let me ask you this. 2 men need a heart transplant, both have no insurance 1 is an American citizen the other came here illegally. The hospital that is going to treat them can only choose one. They were both added at the same date and time. Who deserves the surgery, who should be helped? Should we help the American in his own country or should we help someone who came here illegally?

[underdog]

yes get out. we cant even take care of our own but lets support every person who came here illegally? American citizens should get and expect more. Call them lucky or whatever you want but the fact is if you are an American citizen you shouldnt get fucked because they money isnt available because its helping someone else who should even be here.

Let me ask you this. 2 men need a heart transplant, both have no insurance 1 is an American citizen the other came here illegally. The hospital that is going to treat them can only choose one. They were both added at the same date and time. Who deserves the surgery, who should be helped? Should we help the American in his own country or should we help someone who came here illegally?

I already got out. I'm living in Canada.

The location someone came from makes no difference to me. This isn't a competition. We're all fucking humans. Just because someone was born on the other side of a border doesn't make them any different.

[Snacks]

I already got out. I'm living in Canada.

The location someone came from makes no difference to me. This isn't a competition. We're all fucking humans. Just because someone was born on the other side of a border doesn't make them any different.

But thats not answering the question. Money has run out this country all available funds need to go to our own struggling citizens. So I ask again. If a hospital has to choose who SHOULD they choose? It shouldnt be a hard decision.

How about if your father has a chance to get a live saving surgery but they chose to give it to an illegal would that be ok with you?

Its nice and easy to say everyone deserves everything but reality is reality. When tough decisions need to be made, someone needs to make one. We all would like to see everyone get help but we are no longer in that situation. So get off the soap box and stop trying to make it like we are heartless for choosing 1 life over another. In the real world these chooses have to be made so if you cant make the tough decisions you cant argue the other side. The problem is you know what the decision would be but by admitting it you feel you admit the entire argument against yourself!

[Snacks]

I already got out. I'm living in Canada.

The location someone came from makes no difference to me. This isn't a competition. We're all fucking humans. Just because someone was born on the other side of a border doesn't make them any different.

You live in Canada. Isnt it true if I wanted to move to Canada I couldnt do so without proof of employment or proof that I would be a productive citizen? I would love to have the Canadian health care that everyone is covered but Obama backed down to the Rebubs.

[underdog]

But thats not answering the question. Money has run out this country all available funds need to go to our own struggling citizens. So I ask again. If a hospital has to choose who SHOULD they choose? It shouldnt be a hard decision.

How about if your father has a chance to get a live saving surgery but they chose to give it to an illegal would that be ok with you?

Its nice and easy to say everyone deserves everything but reality is reality. When tough decisions need to be made, someone needs to make one. We all would like to see everyone get help but we are no longer in that situation. So get off the soap box and stop trying to make it like we are heartless for choosing 1 life over another. In the real world these chooses have to be made so if you cant make the tough decisions you cant argue the other side. The problem is you know what the decision would be but by admitting it you feel you admit the entire argument against yourself!

How would it normally be handled, if there were two non-illegal people set up in your hypothetical situation? Handle it the same way.

[underdog]

You live in Canada. Isnt it true if I wanted to move to Canada I couldnt do so without proof of employment or proof that I would be a productive citizen? I would love to have the Canadian health care that everyone is covered but Obama backed down to the Rebubs.

I was here illegally for a while. And I'm only on a work visa, so I'm not covered under their healthcare, even though I have to pay Canadian (and US) taxes.

[Snacks]

How would it normally be handled, if there were two non-illegal people set up in your hypothetical situation? Handle it the same way.

then 1st on the list and or best chance of full recovery. But the question isnt to non illegals its one American citizen and 1 illegal alien! You are the Chief of staff at a hospital and have to make the decision. Who do you choose?

The fact that you wont admit the American citizen deserves it is insane!

[Snacks]

I was here illegally for a while. And I'm only on a work visa, so I'm not covered under their healthcare, even though I have to pay Canadian (and US) taxes.

why didnt you just cross the border and stay? Why follow the rules?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Oh, man. Our society sucks.

"What's that? You're sick but you didn't happen to be born in this country? FUCK YOU. Get the fuck out. I got lucky and my mother happened to get knocked up here so that means I'm worth more than you."

USA! USA! USA!

Ugh.

The Kardashian sisters happened to be born into a fortune . Does that mean some poor person has a right to go into their house and take everything they have?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

But thats not answering the question. Money has run out this country all available funds need to go to our own struggling citizens. So I ask again. If a hospital has to choose who SHOULD they choose? It shouldnt be a hard decision.

How about if your father has a chance to get a live saving surgery but they chose to give it to an illegal would that be ok with you?

Its nice and easy to say everyone deserves everything but reality is reality. When tough decisions need to be made, someone needs to make one. We all would like to see everyone get help but we are no longer in that situation. So get off the soap box and stop trying to make it like we are heartless for choosing 1 life over another. In the real world these chooses have to be made so if you cant make the tough decisions you cant argue the other side. The problem is you know what the decision would be but by admitting it you feel you admit the entire argument against yourself!

If I might add

The economic damage just in healthcare alone by illegals is staggering. Hospitals had to close due to them not paying a dime every time they have another anchor baby.

http://www.examiner.com/crime-in-norfolk/proof-that-illegal-aliens-are-bankrupting-los-angeles

Also illegals are getting free dialysis treatment and this is causing a huge issue in hospitals. Heres an example


http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/special/immigration/6575281.html

[WRESTLINGFAN]

These advocates for illegal immigration really amaze me sometimes. What do you tell a surviving family member who was killed by a drunk driving illegal or in this case which was a major story a few years ago in Rockland County NY?


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1610420/posts


Losing a family member to crimes like this is horrific and to put salt in the wounds done by people who shouldnt fucking be here!!!!!

[hanso]

My Dream act would be if WF stops posting FNC fear mongering hyperbole dribble.

[sailor]

I already got out. I'm living in Canada.

And you wonder why you're not a mod?

[epo]

yes get out. we cant even take care of our own but lets support every person who came here illegally? American citizens should get and expect more. Call them lucky or whatever you want but the fact is if you are an American citizen you shouldnt get fucked because they money isnt available because its helping someone else who should even be here.

Let me ask you this. 2 men need a heart transplant, both have no insurance 1 is an American citizen the other came here illegally. The hospital that is going to treat them can only choose one. They were both added at the same date and time. Who deserves the surgery, who should be helped? Should we help the American in his own country or should we help someone who came here illegally?

The answer is that your hypothetical proves how stupid hypotheticals are.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

My Dream act would be if WF stops posting FNC fear mongering hyperbole dribble.

Just admit you want to blow Ruppert Murdoch. Your FNC references are old.

[underdog]

then 1st on the list and or best chance of full recovery. But the question isnt to non illegals its one American citizen and 1 illegal alien! You are the Chief of staff at a hospital and have to make the decision. Who do you choose?

The fact that you wont admit the American citizen deserves it is insane!

I would take the 1st on the list or the best chance of full recovery, then. Just because the person wasn't born in the US doesn't mean they deserve to die.

The Kardashian sisters happened to be born into a fortune . Does that mean some poor person has a right to go into their house and take everything they have?

No, it means they pay far more in taxes than poor people.

[hanso]

Just admit you want to blow Ruppert Murdoch. Your FNC references are old.

Well stop spouting it then. (references are old.) "ditto" there is lingo you might adhere to.


Don't know why I keep thinking you can have a meaningful debate. Then I read the same old hashed out crap that dosn't have a stick of truth to it.

[Snacks]

I would take the 1st on the list or the best chance of full recovery, then. Just because the person wasn't born in the US doesn't mean they deserve to die.



so you actually think an ILLEGAL deserves a free surgery over an American CITIZEN? And that is why so many retards on the right win because our liberals and progressives cant do the right thing for our own people first. This is why so many middle class people vote republican even though republicans. Because the left shows them that they would rather help someone who shouldnt be here rather then someone who is an American and has paid their way their whole life!

scary!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Well stop spouting it then. (references are old.) "ditto" there is lingo you might adhere to.

These incidents didn't happen? What does FNC have to do with anything? What makes you think I listen to every word Rush Limbaugh says?




NO TRUTH? What the fuck are you talking about?
The facts are that If these illegals were not here people like Mary Nagle would be alive. But you cant fathom that, you must always bring up some stupid news channel when trying to argue your case

[hanso]

These incidents didn't happen? What does FNC have to do with anything?

Sure it could happen, but not at some overblown % you drag it out to be.
The only mainstream media I hear this garbage from is Fox News.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Sure it could happen, but not at some overblown % you drag it out to be.
The only mainstream media I hear this garbage from is Fox News.

Different network

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local&id=6855371


And BTW what do you mean by garbage? Someone here illegally killing people isn't newsworthy to you?


Do a google search in the news tab for illegal immigrant and you will see recent stories of illegals driving drunk, molesting children , selling drugs, the list goes on.


There was a story this week of a border agent shot and killed by a group of illegals at the border

[underdog]

so you actually think an ILLEGAL deserves a free surgery over an American CITIZEN? And that is why so many retards on the right win because our liberals and progressives cant do the right thing for our own people first. This is why so many middle class people vote republican even though republicans. Because the left shows them that they would rather help someone who shouldnt be here rather then someone who is an American and has paid their way their whole life!

scary!

I'm of no tribe. Everyone are my people. I just happened to be born in the US. I don't hold it against someone because they fell out of a twat in Guadalajara.

[StanUpshaw]

I'm of no tribe. Everyone are my people. I just happened to be born in the US. I don't hold it against someone because they fell out of a twat in Guadalajara.

http://i.imgur.com/IB1BC.jpg

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I'm of no tribe. Everyone are my people. I just happened to be born in the US. I don't hold it against someone because they fell out of a twat in Guadalajara.

Please give me your address and leave the door unlocked, I plan on staying at your place indefinitely and you better cook what I want. I want control of the TV and you better leave me the keys to your car.

[epo]

I'm of no tribe. Everyone are my people. I just happened to be born in the US. I don't hold it against someone because they fell out of a twat in Guadalajara.

The irony of the question is that nowhere in the Hippocratic Oath does it say "citizenship".

[Dan 'Hampton]

I think we offer amnesty to those who qualify ie make money and would therefore be taxed, and jettison the southern states who are wellfare leaches and suck the teat of us northern states. I'm sick of my tax dollars going to pay for those sister fucking hayseeds.

[underdog]

Please give me your address and leave the door unlocked, I plan on staying at your place indefinitely and you better cook what I want. I want control of the TV and you better leave me the keys to your car.

What? I don't let wrestling fans anywhere near me. If it were up to me, all wrestling fans would be deported.

[underdog]

http://i.imgur.com/IB1BC.jpg

I love you, too, my son. You are welcome.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

What? I don't let wrestling fans anywhere near me. If it were up to me, all wrestling fans would be deported.

I am also a Yankees fan so I guess you would want me deported as well

[underdog]

I am also a Yankees fan so I guess you would want me deported as well

No. I'm ok with Yankees fans. They're not all pedophiles.

[Bob Impact]

No. I'm ok with Yankees fans. They're not all pedophiles.

But those are your people. Which means...
...
MY GOD YOU'RE SICK!

[Barnaby Jones]

Please give me your address and leave the door unlocked, I plan on staying at your place indefinitely and you better cook what I want. I want control of the TV and you better leave me the keys to your car.

That analogy was fucking awful and stupid the first time you used it!!!

[Ritalin]

Really? Still?

[PapaBear]

http://i.imgur.com/IB1BC.jpg
J Dubs!!!!

[hanso]

Please give me your address and leave the door unlocked, I plan on staying at your place indefinitely and you better cook what I want. I want control of the TV and you better leave me the keys to your car.

WWF In Your House- 1997-12-07

[WRESTLINGFAN]

That analogy was fucking awful and stupid the first time you used it!!!

No it's not.!! Its the same fucking comparison

[A.J.]

J Dubs!!!!

:laugh:

[foodcourtdruide]

Please give me your address and leave the door unlocked, I plan on staying at your place indefinitely and you better cook what I want. I want control of the TV and you better leave me the keys to your car.

Silly analogy. This is just not what's happening. This issue is far more complex than this.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I do NOT understand this entitlement that these illegals feel that we owe them?

We are supposed to just hand over citizenship to them after they sucked billions of dollars out of us?

If these college educated illegals really want to make a change they should move back to their home countries like Mexico and start there.

America has said no to Amnesty we have said we are sick and tired of paying your bills and cleaning up the mess you people make. The language is the same in both English and Spanish.


NO !!!!!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Silly analogy. This is just not what's happening. This issue is far more complex than this.

Its the same analogy. Illegals break down the door, take billions in entitlements, do not contribute and want to be rewarded with citizenship and make demands all the time

[Barnaby Jones]

Thanks for explaining why it was wrong and how you have no clue what the fuck you're babbling about! Very helpful, WF!!!!

[Barnaby Jones]

Bottom line, we need some sort of amnesty as part of a comprehensive immigration reform!!! No, not just a blanket amnesty like we saw in the past; on its own that only provides very short term solutions and doesn't do anything to address immigration in the long run!!! We need something sensible along the lines of DREAM that is done along with (and this is key) streamlining the immigration process so that's it's easier and quicker to enter the country as well as cracking down HARD on those that exploit illegals!!! That way you are attacking the main causes of illegal immigration (the shitty immigration process and people willing to hire and rent to illegals) and you are plugging most of the illegals here into the system!!! These things all need to happen together and cannot succeed on their own otherwise it'll just end up as business as usual!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Thanks for explaining why it was wrong and how you have no clue what the fuck you're babbling about! Very helpful, WF!!!!

Do you believe that anyone at any time can come into your house or in this case come into the country? Its like pissing up a rope with you

[Barnaby Jones]

Do you believe that anyone at any time can come into your house or in this case come into the country? Its like pissing up a rope with you

You simply don't get how your analogy completely and totally fails!!! It's hilarious how you're so proud of it and keep repeating it!!! Poor little fella!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Bottom line, we need some sort of amnesty as part of a comprehensive immigration reform!!! No, not just a blanket amnesty like we saw in the past; on its own that only provides very short term solutions and doesn't do anything to address immigration in the long run!!! We need something sensible along the lines of DREAM that is done along with (and this is key) streamlining the immigration process so that's it's easier and quicker to enter the country as well as cracking down HARD on those that exploit illegals!!! That way you are attacking the main causes of illegal immigration (the shitty immigration process and people willing to hire and rent to illegals) and you are plugging most of the illegals here into the system!!! These things all need to happen together and cannot succeed on their own otherwise it'll just end up as business as usual!!!


I agree with some of your points like cracking down on employers and landlords, However granting amnesty and dumbing down citizenship requirements will not solve the problem. The main causes is the employment also our generous welfare state. Cut off all these as well as deny birthright citizenship along with real border security. The key is to make life so unbearable for illegals and they will leave on their own. Money wouldnt be needed for blanket deportation.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You simply don't get how your analogy completely and totally fails!!! It's hilarious how you're so proud of it and keep repeating it!!! Poor little fella!!!

If you can not see the comparison then there is no hope for you at all

[Barnaby Jones]

Sorry, WF!!! The real reason they're here is the employment!!! You're living in a fantasy world if you think it's because of "welfare" above all else because they can make more from shady hiring than from government assistance and it's less risky to them getting caught!!!

Look, we get you hate them and you want them punished!!! Problem is, that's simply not productive!!! Your dream of mass "self-deportations" simply aren't realistic because even with crack downs America is still usually giving them a much better chance than what most of them have back at home!!!Some people would leave but most would not!

[Barnaby Jones]

If you can not see the comparison then there is no hope for you at all

You didn't make a good comparison! Stop pretending like you did!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Sorry, WF!!! The real reason they're here is the employment!!! You're living in a fantasy world if you think it's because of "welfare" above all else because they can make more from shady hiring than from government assistance and it's less risky to them getting caught!!!

Look, we get you hate them and you want them punished!!! Problem is, that's simply not productive!!! Your dream of mass "self-deportations" simply aren't realistic because even with crack downs America is still usually giving them a much better chance than what most of them have back at home!!!Some people would leave but most would not!

Of course they are here for the employment but our gov't largesse is another reason why they come here. You think it's right that they can pump out kids every 9 months and not pay their medical bills and collect welfare, housing subsidies, foodstamps, healthcare etc. It is productive to punish them. They broke the law!!!!!!!! Why exempt them from being punished? I agree that stopping every bown 4 ft person is wasteful and counterproductive but I'll say it again if someone here illegally gets something small like a speeding ticket it's Adios!!!! I dont care how many anchor babies you have. You rolled the dice and took the risk and knew that at any time you risked being removed from this country


The economic damage to our country by them is astronomical. California alone is deep in the red because of these freeloaders

[Snacks]

Bottom line, we need some sort of amnesty as part of a comprehensive immigration reform!!! No, not just a blanket amnesty like we saw in the past; on its own that only provides very short term solutions and doesn't do anything to address immigration in the long run!!! We need something sensible along the lines of DREAM that is done along with (and this is key) streamlining the immigration process so that's it's easier and quicker to enter the country as well as cracking down HARD on those that exploit illegals!!! That way you are attacking the main causes of illegal immigration (the shitty immigration process and people willing to hire and rent to illegals) and you are plugging most of the illegals here into the system!!! These things all need to happen together and cannot succeed on their own otherwise it'll just end up as business as usual!!!

why should we streamline immigration and make it easier? This isnt the early 1900s and America needed and wanted immigration. We are overpopulated as it is. Why would we want to make it even more so? We will always allow people to come here but we need to lower the annual numbers. Then again if there werent so many illegals here maybe they would allow more legal immigrants in!?

[Barnaby Jones]

Why have you not once ever posted a source that compares their cost with what they contribute? Your rants are always based around these cartoon stereotypes of people here not working at all, not spending and not paying taxes and just looking for every bit of welfare they can find!!! That's why nobody takes you seriously: you're so obviously one sided and biased on such a complex issue!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Why have you not once ever posted a source that compares their cost with what they contribute? Your rants are always based around these cartoon stereotypes of people here not working at all, not spending and not paying taxes and just looking for every bit of welfare they can find!!! That's why nobody takes you seriously: you're so obviously one sided and biased on such a complex issue!!!

DO YOU KNOW HOW TO READ ??????? :wallbash:


I ve posted this numerous times

http://www.fairus.org/site/News2/1718210983?page=NewsArticle&id=23190&security=1601&news_iv_ctrl=1761


And heres an article that affects your own back yard

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/sep/05/local/la-me-illegal-welfare-20100906


This is from 2004 but this amount to CA has ballooned over the past 6 years

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/immigrationnaturalizatio/a/caillegals.htm

[Barnaby Jones]

why should we streamline immigration and make it easier? This isnt the early 1900s and America needed and wanted immigration. We are overpopulated as it is. Why would we want to make it even more so? We will always allow people to come here but we need to lower the annual numbers. Then again if there werent so many illegals here maybe they would allow more legal immigrants in!?

Again, it's a combination of steps!!! Streamlining immigration alone won't do it enough!!! It has to be done with the combination of showing that people who exploit illegals are going to lose a ton of money or be tossed into jail for doing so and are likely to be caught!!! You do that and you drastically reduce both the number of illegals coming here and actually reduce the total number of immigration because their primary motivation for both coming here and coming here illegally is drastically reduced!!!

[Barnaby Jones]

DO YOU KNOW HOW TO READ ??????? :wallbash:


I ve posted this numerous times

http://www.fairus.org/site/News2/1718210983?page=NewsArticle&id=23190&security=1601&news_iv_ctrl=1761


And heres an article that affects your own back yard

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/sep/05/local/la-me-illegal-welfare-20100906


This is from 2004 but this amount to CA has ballooned over the past 6 years

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/immigrationnaturalizatio/a/caillegals.htm

Holy shit, you're not posting ANYTHING that actually projects economic gains!!! That first link ONLY has tax payment estimates, ah-doy!!! Our economy extends well beyond just taxes, and that's why so many illegals are here in the first place!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Holy shit, you're not posting ANYTHING that actually projects economic gains!!! That first link ONLY has tax payment estimates, ah-doy!!! Our economy extends well beyond just taxes, and that's why so many illegals are here in the first place!!!

And don't you see how much they consume in social services???? Your home state is swimming in red because of the high cost of cheap labor.

[Barnaby Jones]

From one of WF's own links:

But even some immigration hawks are wary of such a move. Steven Camarota of the Center for Immigration Studies, a Washington-based research organization that supports immigration restrictions, said ending birthright citizenship would harm children for their parents' misdeeds, require new federal registration systems and create other problems. The solution, he said, is to continue driving down illegal immigration with tough enforcement.

Right on, hawks!!!

[Barnaby Jones]

And don't you see how much they consume in social services???? Your home state is swimming in red because of the high cost of cheap labor.

That's why I keep crowing about cracking down on the exploiters as the main thing that needs to happen NOW!!! Cut off the main motivation for illegal immigration!!! They're here because there are too many people that will rent to and hire illegals!!! Those are the people that are the cause of this and they need to have their asses kicked!!! Focusing on the illegals themselves themselves isn't going to break the cycle!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

That's why I keep crowing about cracking down on the exploiters as the main thing that needs to happen NOW!!! Cut off the main motivation for illegal immigration!!! They're here because there are too many people that will rent to and hire illegals!!! Those are the people that are the cause of this and they need to have their asses kicked!!! Focusing on the illegals themselves themselves isn't going to break the cycle!!!

Im not disagreeing with you on that, and I never said that the illegals are the only cause but the illegals come here voluntarily no one forced them to come here. They know they are breaking the law.

[Barnaby Jones]

Im not disagreeing with you on that, but the illegals come here voluntarily no one forced them to come here. They know they are breaking the law. Illegals are not the only problem but they are one of them.

They came here voluntarily because of the widespread under the table employment and housing available to them!!! It's like thinking any drug debate has to focus on users as the main problem!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

They came here voluntarily because of the widespread under the table employment and housing available to them!!! It's like thinking any drug debate has to focus on users as the main problem!!!

And entitlements why don't you at least be honest about that. Cut off all employment and housing opportunities as well as the entitlements and they will not come here, and many will leave.

Starve them out and punish them as well as the employers and the problem will be fixed.

If more states devised laws like AZ they will leave.

[Barnaby Jones]

A "starve them out" mentality is barbaric!!! I want solutions that deal with the problem long term and deals with the illegals we have here now but does it humanely!!! I'm sorry, but I'm never going to agree with such a cold and monstrous view of humanity!!! Welfare benefits are just the cherry on top of the main reasons they come here!!! If people are caught, yes, deport them, but a larger plan to legalize illegals in conjecture with immigration reform and cracking down on exploiters isn't impossible and is not the end of the world!!! Cut down on the draw and integrate as many as we can who are here now so they're not off the grid!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

A "starve them out" mentality is barbaric!!! I want solutions that deal with the problem long term and deals with the illegals we have here now but does it humanely!!! I'm sorry, but I'm never going to agree with such a cold and monstrous view of humanity!!! If people are caught, yes, deport them, but a plan to legalize illegals in conjecture with immigration reform and cracking down on exploiters isn't impossible and is not the end of the world!!! Cut down on the draw and integrate as many as we can who are here now so they're not off the grid!!!

Rewarding people with transfer payments who are here illegally might be great in your utopian world but I want people here illegally to be punished. Call it whatever you want but 70% of people happen to agree with me. You are giving incentives to people with other peoples money. Thats in your playbook. If you happen to care about these illegals why dont you give your money to them directly. What part of illegal can't you understand. Hell if someone gets caught robbing a bank 2 weeks later let him have all the money. They managed to elude the top of the line alarm system at that time.

Legalizing illegal aliens back in 1986 caused the disaster we have today. You think if we gave 20 million people Amnesty it would end illegal immigration? Again refer to Simpson Mazzoli

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Illegal immigration and bird feeder analogy.


This is so true

[B]"The Bird Feeder Analogy
I bought a bird feeder. I hung it on my back porch and filled it with birdseed. What a beauty of a bird feeder it was, as I filled it lovingly with seed. Within a week we had hundreds of birds taking advantage of the continuous flow of free and easily accessible food.

But then the birds started building nests in the boards of the patio, above the table, and next to the barbecue. Then came the poop! It was everywhere, on the patio tile, the chairs, the table…everywhere!

Then some of the birds turned mean. They would dive bomb me and try to peck me even though I had fed them out of my own pocket. The other birds were boisterous and loud. They sat on the feeder and squawked and screamed at all hours of the day and night and demanded that I fill it when it got low on food.

After a while, I couldn’t even sit on my own back porch anymore. So I took down the bird feeder and in three days the birds were gone. I cleaned up their mess and took down the many nests they had built all over the patio.

Soon, the back yard was like it used to be…quiet, serene and no one demanding their rights to a free meal.

Now let’s see…..

Our government gives out free food, subsidized housing, free medical care, and free education and allows anyone born here to be an automatic citizen.

Then the illegals came by the tens and hundreds of thousands, millions. Suddenly our taxes went up to pay for free services; apartments are housing 5 families; you have to wait 6 hours to be seen by an emergency room doctor; your child’s 2nd grade class is behind other schools because half the class doesn’t speak English. Corn Flakes now come in a bilingual box;

[Furtherman]

Wow... it's so accurate it's scary.

That is EXACTLY what happened at my house when I was growing up. I had a couple of bird feeders AND a bird bath in a tiny back yard.



Oh wait... no it didn't.



And I'd bet for the majority of people who read this idiotic analogy, they'd have the same conclusion.

Analogy fail.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Wow... it's so accurate it's scary.

That is EXACTLY what happened at my house when I was growing up. I had a couple of bird feeders AND a bird bath in a tiny back yard.



Oh wait... no it didn't.



And I'd bet for the majority of people who read this idiotic analogy, they'd have the same conclusion.

Analogy fail.

Were you the creepy kid who put alka seltzer in the bird feeders?

[Furtherman]

Were you the creepy kid who put alka seltzer in the bird feeders?

Damn I wish I thought of that!

[Zorro]

Illegal immigration and bird feeder analogy.


This is so true

[B]"The Bird Feeder Analogy
I bought a bird feeder. I hung it on my back porch and filled it with birdseed. What a beauty of a bird feeder it was, as I filled it lovingly with seed. Within a week we had hundreds of birds taking advantage of the continuous flow of free and easily accessible food.

But then the birds started building nests in the boards of the patio, above the table, and next to the barbecue. Then came the poop! It was everywhere, on the patio tile, the chairs, the table…everywhere!

Then some of the birds turned mean. They would dive bomb me and try to peck me even though I had fed them out of my own pocket. The other birds were boisterous and loud. They sat on the feeder and squawked and screamed at all hours of the day and night and demanded that I fill it when it got low on food.

After a while, I couldn’t even sit on my own back porch anymore. So I took down the bird feeder and in three days the birds were gone. I cleaned up their mess and took down the many nests they had built all over the patio.

Soon, the back yard was like it used to be…quiet, serene and no one demanding their rights to a free meal.

Now let’s see…..

Our government gives out free food, subsidized housing, free medical care, and free education and allows anyone born here to be an automatic citizen.

Then the illegals came by the tens and hundreds of thousands, millions. Suddenly our taxes went up to pay for free services; apartments are housing 5 families; you have to wait 6 hours to be seen by an emergency room doctor; your child’s 2nd grade class is behind other schools because half the class doesn’t speak English. Corn Flakes now come in a bilingual box;

You really really need to get past this...the political reality is that we will NEVER, NEVER, EVER "en masse" send people home solely because they are here illegally. It ain't gonna happen. This is not a statement on whether its right or wrong, but it's just not going to happen.

So, what that means is you need to accept that the change has already happened and get on board with a way to correct it going forward or you'll be spending the rest of your life complaining to no purpose.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You really really need to get past this...the political reality is that we will NEVER, NEVER, EVER "en masse" send people home solely because they are here illegally. It ain't gonna happen. This is not a statement on whether its right or wrong, but it's just not going to happen.

So, what that means is you need to accept that the change has already happened and get on board with a way to correct it going forward or you'll be spending the rest of your life complaining to no purpose.

And legalizing 20 million people will never ever solve the problem.

I agree that a blanket deportation of 20 million people will not be cost effective. However if incentives are eliminated and opportunities are cut off, many of them will leave. SB 1070 proves it.

We are well on our way to becoming like Western Europe. Look whats going on there, its collapsing due to its uncontrolled immigration and massive welfare state. That could be us if we dont do anything about it.


We can not simply afford to care for the poor and uneducated to come here we have the equivilancy of 20 million high school dropouts. Many with no education at all.


Since simpson mazzoli there have been 6 more Amnesty laws passed.




The Immigration and Reform Control Act (IRCA) Amnesty of 1986 - the "one-time only" blanket amnesty for some 2.8 million illegal aliens.
Section 245(i) The Amnesty of 1994 - a temporary rolling amnesty for 578,000 illegal aliens.
Section 245(i) The Extension Amnesty of 1997 - an extension of the rolling amnesty created in 1994.
The Nicaraguan Adjustment and Central American Relief Act (NACARA) Amnesty of 1997 - an amnesty for nearly one million illegal aliens from Central America.
The Haitian Refugee Immigration Fairness Act Amnesty (HRIFA) of 1998 - an amnesty for 125,000 illegal aliens from Haiti.
The Late Amnesty of 2000 - an amnesty for approximately 400,000 illegal aliens who claimed they should have been amnestied under the 1986 IRCA amnesty.
The LIFE Act Amnesty of 2000 - a reinstatement of the rolling Section 245(i) amnesty to an estimated 900,000 illegal aliens

[Snacks]

You really really need to get past this...the political reality is that we will NEVER, NEVER, EVER "en masse" send people home solely because they are here illegally. It ain't gonna happen. This is not a statement on whether its right or wrong, but it's just not going to happen.

So, what that means is you need to accept that the change has already happened and get on board with a way to correct it going forward or you'll be spending the rest of your life complaining to no purpose.

that was also said in 1986 when they thought only 3 million illegals were here and it turned out to be like 20 million. if you accept it this time, what happens next time?

[Zorro]

that was also said in 1986 when they thought only 3 million illegals were here and it turned out to be like 20 million. if you accept it this time, what happens next time?

My point is it does not matter what happened in 1986. You are not going to get a mass deportation. No matter how distateful you find it you'd be better get on board with an acceptance of the way the world is today because as long as the left and right keep extreme solutions nothing will happen.

[Snacks]

My point is it does not matter what happened in 1986. You are not going to get a mass deportation. No matter how distateful you find it you'd be better get on board with an acceptance of the way the world is today because as long as the left and right keep extreme solutions nothing will happen.

I agree you will not get a mass deportation but I wouldnt create a law that would do the same thing that was done in 1986. I would give in to what they did. I would secure the borders and over time as we find someone who is illegal we deport them on the spot. I would also do raids on places that hire illegals and deport them. I would then fine the fuck out of those companys. Make the fines so out of control that a business wont take that chance. Thats the problem sometimes businesses do things that they know are wrong or illegal because they know the fine is a cost of doing business and is less then what they profit off that illegal activity. If you make the fines $1 million then you will see the illegals cant get work so they will have to go home!

[foodcourtdruide]

And legalizing 20 million people will never ever solve the problem.



No one on this board is proposing this. No one. You are having an argument with an imaginary person.

[foodcourtdruide]

My point is it does not matter what happened in 1986. You are not going to get a mass deportation. No matter how distateful you find it you'd be better get on board with an acceptance of the way the world is today because as long as the left and right keep extreme solutions nothing will happen.

Thank you so much for being the voice of reason. Enforcing the law to extreme measuers is just not possible, so why don't we work from there to fix the problem?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Brilliant piece on how CA is a 3rd world cesspool.


http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/255320/two-californias-victor-davis-hanson

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Thank you so much for being the voice of reason. Enforcing the law to extreme measuers is just not possible, so why don't we work from there to fix the problem?

And rewarding people with citizenship like what was done 7 times since 1986 is reasonable?

You want to dumb down the requirements for citizenship and reward people who cut in line while spitting in the faces of people who went thru the proper stages.

[underdog]

And rewarding people with citizenship like what was done 7 times since 1986 is reasonable?

You want to dumb down the requirements for citizenship and reward people who cut in line while spitting in the faces of people who went thru the proper stages.

I think he actually wants to make it easier for anyone to obtain legality in our country.

[Zorro]

And rewarding people with citizenship like what was done 7 times since 1986 is reasonable?

You want to dumb down the requirements for citizenship and reward people who cut in line while spitting in the faces of people who went thru the proper stages.

What I want is irrelevant. Like everyone else if I had my way things would be totally different, but I don't have my way and that's the point. We live in a community of people with different thoughts and ideas. Maybe what you see as spitting in someones face I see as a person that risked everything and including life itself so they could stand on a cold street corner hoping for a little carpentry work in order to feed their family.

You act like these people that come here illegally stood up one day and say "yup, I'm going to America and fuck over some whities". They didn't they're people who just want a little happiness.

It's blaming the victim. The government abdicated its responsibilty and normal human desire filled the vacuum.

All I am suggesting is that you can't keep reciting the pablum of the extreme left or right and expect to solve the problem because if you do you're just kidding yourself.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

What I want is irrelevant. Like everyone else if I had my way things would be totally different, but I don't have my way and that's the point. We live in a community of people with different thoughts and ideas. Maybe what you see as spitting in someones face I see as a person that risked everything and including life itself so they could stand on a cold street corner hoping for a little carpentry work in order to feed their family.

You act like these people that come here illegally stood up one day and say "yup, I'm going to America and fuck over some whities". They didn't they're people who just want a little happiness.

It's blaming the victim. The government abdicated its responsibilty and normal human desire filled the vacuum.

All I am suggesting is that you can't keep reciting the pablum of the extreme left or right and expect to solve the problem because if you do you're just kidding yourself.


Then they should work to improve their country, quit ruining ours. and stop having kids If they cant support 1 why are they having 4 or 5?. I always read these stories of some illegal alien sending money home to feed his multiple children. How about they stop breeding and practice some personal responsibility. Mexico is reaping the rewards while this country bleeds billions. They are like parasites and eventually both the host and parasite ends up dying

Also the guy standing on the corner is driving down wages of legitimate American workers. The construction industry for example has been devastated by the amount of cheap labor. Tons of businesses have been put out due to the amount of cheap foreign labor

Illegal aliens are not victims. They know that they took a risk and can be deported at anytime. I dont give a fuck If it sounds harsh. We can not keep importing the worlds poor and become a giant soup kitchen. It makes things worse. Look at Western Europe as an example They know that our entitlement system awaits them so that they can suck the life out of the taxpayers.


We live in a country where 7 out of 10 people have said enough. This is why the DREAM act was killed. This is why when Dubya wanted Amnesty in 2007 we said no!!!!

I dont give a fuck what Mexicans think. They are the biggest hypocrites around. There are no welfare payments or entitlements to an illegal there. Mexico is not poor. It is corrupt and its up to the people of Mexico to rise up and quit electing corrupt politicians into office. We can not continue to be their dumping ground.

Again I use Mexico as an example because the majority of illegals are there. I someone is going to have a shit fit that I used Mexico as an example

[Bob Impact]

It's blaming the victim.

You have got to be kidding.

[Snacks]

Then they should work to improve their country, quit ruining ours. and stop having kids If they cant support 1 why are they having 4 or 5?. I always read these stories of some illegal alien sending money home to feed his multiple children. How about they stop breeding and practice some personal responsibility. Mexico is reaping the rewards while this country bleeds billions. They are like parasites and eventually both the host and parasite ends up dying

Also the guy standing on the corner is driving down wages of legitimate American workers. The construction industry for example has been devastated by the amount of cheap labor. Tons of businesses have been put out due to the amount of cheap foreign labor

Illegal aliens are not victims. They know that they took a risk and can be deported at anytime. I dont give a fuck If it sounds harsh. We can not keep importing the worlds poor and become a giant soup kitchen. It makes things worse. Look at Western Europe as an example They know that our entitlement system awaits them so that they can suck the life out of the taxpayers.


We live in a country where 7 out of 10 people have said enough. This is why the DREAM act was killed. This is why when Dubya wanted Amnesty in 2007 we said no!!!!

I dont give a fuck what Mexicans think. They are the biggest hypocrites around. There are no welfare payments or entitlements to an illegal there. Mexico is not poor. It is corrupt and its up to the people of Mexico to rise up and quit electing corrupt politicians into office. We can not continue to be their dumping ground.

Again I use Mexico as an example because the majority of illegals are there. I someone is going to have a shit fit that I used Mexico as an example

even though your tone is very hateful and nasty your points are true. Mexico isnt poor. The Richest man in the World is from, lives and his company is based out of Mexico. He is also a huge scumbag and gets away with it because the country itself takes advantage of its own people. Yet we are supposed to be the ones to let out own people suffer and go broke while helping people who broke our laws coming here? These people are not victims, they are victimizing our system!

Its also not just Mexicans, its all illegals. The problem is the majority like 90% are from Mexico or latin America! They might not come here to milk the system but they do learn quickly how easy it is to do so what they are here.

[foodcourtdruide]

Then they should work to improve their country, quit ruining ours. and stop having kids If they cant support 1 why are they having 4 or 5?. I always read these stories of some illegal alien sending money home to feed his multiple children. How about they stop breeding and practice some personal responsibility. Mexico is reaping the rewards while this country bleeds billions. They are like parasites and eventually both the host and parasite ends up dying

Also the guy standing on the corner is driving down wages of legitimate American workers. The construction industry for example has been devastated by the amount of cheap labor. Tons of businesses have been put out due to the amount of cheap foreign labor

Illegal aliens are not victims. They know that they took a risk and can be deported at anytime. I dont give a fuck If it sounds harsh. We can not keep importing the worlds poor and become a giant soup kitchen. It makes things worse. Look at Western Europe as an example They know that our entitlement system awaits them so that they can suck the life out of the taxpayers.


We live in a country where 7 out of 10 people have said enough. This is why the DREAM act was killed. This is why when Dubya wanted Amnesty in 2007 we said no!!!!

I dont give a fuck what Mexicans think. They are the biggest hypocrites around. There are no welfare payments or entitlements to an illegal there. Mexico is not poor. It is corrupt and its up to the people of Mexico to rise up and quit electing corrupt politicians into office. We can not continue to be their dumping ground.

Again I use Mexico as an example because the majority of illegals are there. I someone is going to have a shit fit that I used Mexico as an example

Stop pretending your concern is "the taxpayer". Your plans for fixing our problems with illegal immigration are infinitely more expensive than the problem that we're currently facing. Zorro is trying to explain to you that the problem exists, and will continue to exist. There will not be a magic pill that fixes it. Knowing this, we should approach it with reason, instead of having two sides that scream bumper sticker slogans at each other, while never solving anything. The DREAM Act took the approach of giving a path to citizenship to illegals that proved (yes, proved) they would be productive citizens. While you and Snacks may disagree with it, at least it's SOMETHING. It's not a blanket path to amnesty as you are trying to mislead everyone to believe.

You don't care about dialogue. I hate that I respond to your posts on this issue, because it's totally pointless.

[Snacks]

Stop pretending your concern is "the taxpayer". Your plans for fixing our problems with illegal immigration are infinitely more expensive than the problem that we're currently facing. Zorro is trying to explain to you that the problem exists, and will continue to exist. There will not be a magic pill that fixes it. Knowing this, we should approach it with reason, instead of having two sides that scream bumper sticker slogans at each other, while never solving anything. The DREAM Act took the approach of giving a path to citizenship to illegals that proved (yes, proved) they would be productive citizens. While you and Snacks may disagree with it, at least it's SOMETHING. It's not a blanket path to amnesty as you are trying to mislead everyone to believe.

You don't care about dialogue. I hate that I respond to your posts on this issue, because it's totally pointless.

And what about the rest of them? Do they all get deported immediately if they fail to prove it? How do they prove it and what are the qualifications?

[foodcourtdruide]

even though your tone is very hateful and nasty your points are true. Mexico isnt poor. The Richest man in the World is from, lives and his company is based out of Mexico. He is also a huge scumbag and gets away with it because the country itself takes advantage of its own people. Yet we are supposed to be the ones to let out own people suffer and go broke while helping people who broke our laws coming here? These people are not victims, they are victimizing our system!

Its also not just Mexicans, its all illegals. The problem is the majority like 90% are from Mexico or latin America! They might not come here to milk the system but they do learn quickly how easy it is to do so what they are here.

Why do you think it's easy to "milk the system"? Seriously, do you have any idea how hard illegal immigrants work, for so little? Comments like that are mind-boggling to me. I understand that you're against the idea of illegal immigrants in this country, but why do you paint them out to be something the majority of them are not? What is the point?

[foodcourtdruide]

And what about the rest of them? Do they all get deported immediately if they fail to prove it? How do they prove it and what are the qualifications?

No. They don't. In reality, that's not feasible, so as Zorro keeps explaining we have to find a realistic way to deal with it. Don't you think that the DREAM Act will reduce the number of illegal immigrants, making it easier to enforce laws? It's a step in the right direction. The number of illegal immigrants will never be at zero in this country, but we should try to make it as managable as possible.

[Zorro]

Then they should work to improve their country, quit ruining ours. and stop having kids If they cant support 1 why are they having 4 or 5?. I always read these stories of some illegal alien sending money home to feed his multiple children. How about they stop breeding and practice some personal responsibility. Mexico is reaping the rewards while this country bleeds billions. They are like parasites and eventually both the host and parasite ends up dying

Also the guy standing on the corner is driving down wages of legitimate American workers. The construction industry for example has been devastated by the amount of cheap labor. Tons of businesses have been put out due to the amount of cheap foreign labor

Illegal aliens are not victims. They know that they took a risk and can be deported at anytime. I dont give a fuck If it sounds harsh. We can not keep importing the worlds poor and become a giant soup kitchen. It makes things worse. Look at Western Europe as an example They know that our entitlement system awaits them so that they can suck the life out of the taxpayers.


We live in a country where 7 out of 10 people have said enough. This is why the DREAM act was killed. This is why when Dubya wanted Amnesty in 2007 we said no!!!!

I dont give a fuck what Mexicans think. They are the biggest hypocrites around. There are no welfare payments or entitlements to an illegal there. Mexico is not poor. It is corrupt and its up to the people of Mexico to rise up and quit electing corrupt politicians into office. We can not continue to be their dumping ground.

Again I use Mexico as an example because the majority of illegals are there. I someone is going to have a shit fit that I used Mexico as an example


I'd love to believe you're some McMahon character putting this on for us, but I fear you are really the "It's still real to me" guy.

[Snacks]

Why do you think it's easy to "milk the system"? Seriously, do you have any idea how hard illegal immigrants work, for so little? Comments like that are mind-boggling to me. I understand that you're against the idea of illegal immigrants in this country, but why do you paint them out to be something the majority of them are not? What is the point?

And do you know how many dont? Do you know how many collect and take advantage of the system? If they even get $1 in aid they are milking our system. They are here illegally they deserve nothing. I cant understand how anyone can find that acceptable. Underdog just said he is living in Canada on a work Visa and he cant use their health care. Every other country has rules and people seem to have honor theirs but we should let everyone that comes here illegally benefit from tax payers?



No. They don't. In reality, that's not feasible, so as Zorro keeps explaining we have to find a realistic way to deal with it. Don't you think that the DREAM Act will reduce the number of illegal immigrants, making it easier to enforce laws? It's a step in the right direction. The number of illegal immigrants will never be at zero in this country, but we should try to make it as managable as possible.

So then what do we do with the ones that dont prove they will be productive citizens? What are the qualifications to prove they are? By not deporting them if they cant prove their worth to our country then it is Amnesty what else would you call it?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Why do you think it's easy to "milk the system"? Seriously, do you have any idea how hard illegal immigrants work, for so little? Comments like that are mind-boggling to me. I understand that you're against the idea of illegal immigrants in this country, but why do you paint them out to be something the majority of them are not? What is the point?

So committing identity theft, document fraud, tax evasion etc. Merit them being here? These illegals do milk the system. Why do they keep pumping out anchor babies? MORE FREE MONEY COURTESY OF THE TAXPAYER!!!!!

I don't give a shit if they work 24 hours a day. Do you expect them to be trading derivatives for Goldman Sachs ? These people have no education so they would not be working jobs that require a high intelligence skillset. Is the guy in front of the home depot going to design the next skyscraper? They work these jobs because the employers would rather pay dirt wages than employ Americans.

Thats not bumper sticker lingo Its a fucking fact. They drop anchor here make a mess and we the victims have to babysit them and clean their mess

[Zorro]

You have got to be kidding.

No, we created the system then get pissed off at people using it. Who's fault is that?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I'd love to believe you're some McMahon character putting this on for us, but I fear you are really the "It's still real to me" guy.

You should talk!! With that username are you sure youre not an illegal from Mexico?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

No, we created the system then get pissed off at people using it. Who's fault is that?

Our government created this shitstorm by not enforcing the laws on the books!!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Stop pretending your concern is "the taxpayer". Your plans for fixing our problems with illegal immigration are infinitely more expensive than the problem that we're currently facing. Zorro is trying to explain to you that the problem exists, and will continue to exist. There will not be a magic pill that fixes it. Knowing this, we should approach it with reason, instead of having two sides that scream bumper sticker slogans at each other, while never solving anything. The DREAM Act took the approach of giving a path to citizenship to illegals that proved (yes, proved) they would be productive citizens. While you and Snacks may disagree with it, at least it's SOMETHING. It's not a blanket path to amnesty as you are trying to mislead everyone to believe.

You don't care about dialogue. I hate that I respond to your posts on this issue, because it's totally pointless.

Pretending? The taxpayers are the victims of illegal immigration along with dead Americans as a result of their raping drunk driving etc. While not all of them are , rapists and murderers many people would be alive today if these people were never in the country

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Illegal aliens not milking the system? Another myth busted


http://www.commonwealthfoundation.org/research/detail/immigration-verification-and-welfare-fraud


The 1st Aunt has beein doing it for years

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2010/09/26/public_housing_common_sense/

[hanso]

http://www.10pix.ru/img1/1395/3061943.gif

[foodcourtdruide]

And do you know how many dont? Do you know how many collect and take advantage of the system? If they even get $1 in aid they are milking our system. They are here illegally they deserve nothing. I cant understand how anyone can find that acceptable. Underdog just said he is living in Canada on a work Visa and he cant use their health care. Every other country has rules and people seem to have honor theirs but we should let everyone that comes here illegally benefit from tax payers?





So then what do we do with the ones that dont prove they will be productive citizens? What are the qualifications to prove they are? By not deporting them if they cant prove their worth to our country then it is Amnesty what else would you call it?

So, you think if Underdog went to a Canadian hospital on the verge of death they would lock him out? What kind of health care do you think illegal immigrants get for free?

It's such a complex problem. Deporting all illegal immigrants would be far, far more expensive than it would cost to let them live here. As angry as people like WF get about this issue, they have no solution. They want to solve a problem by creating a worse one.

[Snacks]

So, you think if Underdog went to a Canadian hospital on the verge of death they would lock him out? What kind of health care do you think illegal immigrants get for free?

It's such a complex problem. Deporting all illegal immigrants would be far, far more expensive than it would cost to let them live here. As angry as people like WF get about this issue, they have no solution. They want to solve a problem by creating a worse one.

so as we catch them or if they came in trying to get legal citizenship and didnt qualify it would be more expensive to put them on a bus or plane? I would think them living here illegally would cost us more money.

The funny thing is I have no problem with any of them. My problem is they come here the wrong way. Come here the right way no matter how hard our rules are or expensive. If you dont like those rules then I cant feel sorry for you. I know if I go to any other country I will follow what they say as far as me working and moving there!

[foodcourtdruide]

Illegal aliens not milking the system? Another myth busted


http://www.commonwealthfoundation.org/research/detail/immigration-verification-and-welfare-fraud


The 1st Aunt has beein doing it for years

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2010/09/26/public_housing_common_sense/

A handful of people milk the system, so you start arguing as if my argument was "no one milks the system". Who exactly are you debating WF? No one is naive enough to think some people don't take advantage of our system.

Did you even read your link from Commonweath Foundation? Do you see the difference in what they're saying compared to what you say? Did they paint all illegal immigrants with a broad brush as evil and lazy?

[foodcourtdruide]

so as we catch them or if they came in trying to get legal citizenship and didnt qualify it would be more expensive to put them on a bus or plane? I would think them living here illegally would cost us more money.

The funny thing is I have no problem with any of them. My problem is they come here the wrong way. Come here the right way no matter how hard our rules are or expensive. If you dont like those rules then I cant feel sorry for you. I know if I go to any other country I will follow what they say as far as me working and moving there!

Enforcing immigration policies on a "as we catch them" basis will not significantly reduce the number of illegal immigrants in this country and pro-actively seeking out all illegal immigrants and enacting mass deportations would far out-cost the price of allowing them to live here.

[Snacks]

Enforcing immigration policies on a "as we catch them" basis will not significantly reduce the number of illegal immigrants in this country and pro-actively seeking out all illegal immigrants and enacting mass deportations would far out-cost the price of allowing them to live here.

so what youre saying is there is nothing we can do so let 30 million people get away with it and let them become citizens for cutting in line and preventing others who wanted to come here and do it the right way? and how will that discourage future illegals from coming here and doing the same thing?

[foodcourtdruide]

so what youre saying is there is nothing we can do so let 30 million people get away with it and let them become citizens for cutting in line and preventing others who wanted to come here and do it the right way? and how will that discourage future illegals from coming here and doing the same thing?

That is absolutely not what I'm saying. I thought the DREAM Act was a good idea, and the DREAM Act did NOT say "let 30 million people get away with it" and become citizens. My point is that we currently have a problem with illegal immigration. What steps can we do towards fixing this problem? Should the path to citizenship become easier for people who have proven they want to become productive citizens? How do we strengthen our borders? Did illegal immigrants break the law? Yes, but so what? How does mindlessly continuing to enforce a system that clearly is not working help us?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

A handful of people milk the system, so you start arguing as if my argument was "no one milks the system". Who exactly are you debating WF? No one is naive enough to think some people don't take advantage of our system.

Did you even read your link from Commonweath Foundation? Do you see the difference in what they're saying compared to what you say? Did they paint all illegal immigrants with a broad brush as evil and lazy?

Illegal aliens are milking the system each time they have another anchor baby and skipping out on the bill.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

That is absolutely not what I'm saying. I thought the DREAM Act was a good idea, and the DREAM Act did NOT say "let 30 million people get away with it" and become citizens. My point is that we currently have a problem with illegal immigration. What steps can we do towards fixing this problem? Should the path to citizenship become easier for people who have proven they want to become productive citizens? How do we strengthen our borders? Did illegal immigrants break the law? Yes, but so what? How does mindlessly continuing to enforce a system that clearly is not working help us?

How are we enforcing anything if we are letting illegals continue to stay here and not punishing the employers and landlords. Its de facto Amnesty

[WRESTLINGFAN]

So, you think if Underdog went to a Canadian hospital on the verge of death they would lock him out? What kind of health care do you think illegal immigrants get for free?

It's such a complex problem. Deporting all illegal immigrants would be far, far more expensive than it would cost to let them live here. As angry as people like WF get about this issue, they have no solution. They want to solve a problem by creating a worse one.

I already stated that deporting 20 million people would not be cost effective.

Again cut off all the benefits, entitlements, and deport people for even the pettiest of crimes and you will see results. Add enforced border security and crack down on the employers and the problem will be solved.

[Zorro]

I already stated that deporting 20 million people would not be cost effective.

Again cut off all the benefits, entitlements, and deport people for even the pettiest of crimes and you will see results. Add enforced border security and crack down on the employers and the problem will be solved.


Always with the simple solutions. Do you realize just how many different forms of ID there are in this country? The government should not be ceding its responsibility. Requiring employers to verify citizenship or work authorization opens them to discrimination lawsuits. So, unless you plan to immunize employers you can forget that idea.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Always with the simple solutions. Do you realize just how many different forms of ID there are in this country? The government should not be ceding its responsibility. Requiring employers to verify citizenship or work authorization opens them to discrimination lawsuits. So, unless you plan to immunize employers you can forget that idea.

Employers discriminate all the time. If someone is not qualified they dont get the job. No one is guaranteed employment

If an employer doesnt know he's willfully hiring an illegal he deserves to lose his business.

There are programs like 287 G which are working very good

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Employers can also use E Verify.

[PapaBear]

How can you not know you're doing something willfully?

[Dudeman]

Always with the simple solutions.

second

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The DREAM act had to die. Havent taxpayers done enough for these people? Havent we shelled out billions for each time an anchor baby was born and provided them with free education, healthcare school lunches, welfare and foodstamps? These illegals have got to be the greediest most selfish people around. They take from us they contribute next to nothing, lower our quality of life, leech off the taxpayer and all they are never satisfied. This country needs more Sheriff Joe Arpaio's. The illegal aliens in Arizona live in fear and thanks to Arpaio he is doing the jobs the feds wont do.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Big sis Napolitano gives foreigners safe passage while American citizens get felt up by glorified mall security.


http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7020678731?Mexico,%20U.S.%20Agree%20on%20Trusted%2 0Traveler%20Program

[foodcourtdruide]

I already stated that deporting 20 million people would not be cost effective.

Again cut off all the benefits, entitlements, and deport people for even the pettiest of crimes and you will see results. Add enforced border security and crack down on the employers and the problem will be solved.

And again, your plan is completely unrealistic. So, say an illegal immigrant goes to a hospital on the verge of death. What do you want us to do?

Your "cut off all the benefits, entitlements" argument are just words that mean nothing. You don't care about solving the problem, you care about punishing illegal immigrants. This is clear to everyone, even snacks who agrees with you and pointed out the visceral nature of your posts.

Most of us here agree that increased border security and stricter enforcement against employers who hire undocumented workers would be effective. However, we don't share your borderline obsession with illegal immigrants and we understand that while they are breaking the law, they are also human beings. An easier path to citizenship for illegal immigrants that would help our country is common sense, defeated because of people like you who replace logic with bumper sticker slogans.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

And again, your plan is completely unrealistic. So, say an illegal immigrant goes to a hospital on the verge of death. What do you want us to do?

Your "cut off all the benefits, entitlements" argument are just words that mean nothing. You don't care about solving the problem, you care about punishing illegal immigrants. This is clear to everyone, even snacks who agrees with you and pointed out the visceral nature of your posts.

Most of us here agree that increased border security and stricter enforcement against employers who hire undocumented workers would be effective. However, we don't share your borderline obsession with illegal immigrants and we understand that while they are breaking the law, they are also human beings. An easier path to citizenship for illegal immigrants that would help our country is common sense, defeated because of people like you who replace logic with bumper sticker slogans.


for humane reasons, only for extreme cases treat him for his medical care and if he can not pay ship him back to his country and let his country take care of him. Its not our responsibility.

http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/08/20/illegal-immigrant-in-a-coma-set-to-be-deported-by-hospital/

Bank robbers are human beings but do we let them keep the money? This is a sovereign nation, just like for example if someone comes onto your private property without your permission you have every right to remove him, and sometimes by deadly force. They knowlingly broke the law. It doesnt matter if they are poor. I do care about solving the problem. They snuck in they are illegal so they do not deserve any entitlements. Does someone who broke into your house deserve free meals and permanent shelter? Of course not you will do everything to make sure he is removed You need to choke them off and cut off all forms of assistance. That solves the problem. Again they are here to freeload and that fact can not be argued. It does not matter if they work. They are taking advantage and are parasites to the taxpayer. I will say it again, we can not be a dumping ground

You want to keep making the same mistakes over and over again by rewarding them with citizenship. It has never worked and will never work in the future. Enforce the laws, crack down on the employers and have real border security.

Enough with the euphanysms. They are not undocumented workers or immigrants. They are illegal aliens

[hanso]

When I posted that Border Patrol had more help. You responded it means nothing. You flip more than McCain. Maybe if we had a Rep. Prez. you would be all for the increase.



http://www.10pix.ru/img1/1395/3061943.gif :surrender:

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Stupid illegals


http://www2.wspa.com/news/2010/dec/20/deputies-men-brag-about-being-illegal-immigrants-a-ar-1246613/

[booster11373]

Stupid illegals




You are stuck in the angry racist version of Groundhog Day

[Barnaby Jones]

The DREAM act had to die. Havent taxpayers done enough for these people? Havent we shelled out billions for each time an anchor baby was born and provided them with free education, healthcare school lunches, welfare and foodstamps? These illegals have got to be the greediest most selfish people around. They take from us they contribute next to nothing, lower our quality of life, leech off the taxpayer and all they are never satisfied.

This is just depressing! You're completely blinded by hate! Something like DREAM would make illegals invest into the country and EARN their citizenship! Then they're no longer off the grid, they're paying in and they're not being exploited! It's not a flat amnesty!

It's just ridiculous that you continue to talk about all illegals like they're lazy and only here to mooch when the reality is that most of them are here to work harder than any of us will in our entire lives! You desperately attempt to portray the life of the illegal as one of nothing but sitting around and living fat off of handouts when such a cartoon stereotype is laughable unrealistic across the entire spectrum of illegals that are here! Yes, there are people here, legally and illegally, that willfully abuse the system, but trying to depict all or most illegals as simply wanting to do nothing but receive handouts and do no work in return is just foolish!

WF, seriously, do you honestly think that most illegals aren't working their asses off after they come here?

[foodcourtdruide]

This is just depressing! You're completely blinded by hate! Something like DREAM would make illegals invest into the country and EARN their citizenship! Then they're no longer off the grid, they're paying in and they're not being exploited! It's not a flat amnesty!

It's just ridiculous that you continue to talk about all illegals like they're lazy and only here to mooch when the reality is that most of them are here to work harder than any of us will in our entire lives! You desperately attempt to portray the life of the illegal as one of nothing but sitting around and living fat off of handouts when such a cartoon stereotype is laughable unrealistic across the entire spectrum of illegals that are here! Yes, there are people here, legally and illegally, that willfully abuse the system, but trying to depict all or most illegals as simply wanting to do nothing but receive handouts and do no work in return is just foolish!

WF, seriously, do you honestly think that most illegals aren't working their asses off after they come here?

It's foolish and unproductive.

I think WF really buys into this idea that illegal immigrants are somehow invading our country and changing the landscape culturally. I wish he would just say that, and use that as his reason for hating them and wanting legislation pushed. Instead, he lies to himself intellectually and shoots down common sense fixes using illogical arguments.

[Barnaby Jones]

Stupid illegals


http://www2.wspa.com/news/2010/dec/20/deputies-men-brag-about-being-illegal-immigrants-a-ar-1246613/

Well, how about that!

Of the fifteen Illegal Aliens discovered in this investigation, three had been removed from the country on at least one prior occasion.

What have I been saying about actually cutting off the source???!?!?!

What makes more sense: mobilizing our military along all of our borders while trying to "starve illegals out"...or slamming the book down on those that exploit illegals and overhauling the immigration process coupled with a realistic increase of security along the southern border?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

This is just depressing! You're completely blinded by hate! Something like DREAM would make illegals invest into the country and EARN their citizenship! Then they're no longer off the grid, they're paying in and they're not being exploited! It's not a flat amnesty!

It's just ridiculous that you continue to talk about all illegals like they're lazy and only here to mooch when the reality is that most of them are here to work harder than any of us will in our entire lives! You desperately attempt to portray the life of the illegal as one of nothing but sitting around and living fat off of handouts when such a cartoon stereotype is laughable unrealistic across the entire spectrum of illegals that are here! Yes, there are people here, legally and illegally, that willfully abuse the system, but trying to depict all or most illegals as simply wanting to do nothing but receive handouts and do no work in return is just foolish!

WF, seriously, do you honestly think that most illegals aren't working their asses off after they come here?

Who said they dont work? They are stealing jobs from Americans and legal immigrants. Employers do not want to pay a fair market wage so they can undercut and pay some illegal.

Yes illegals are lottery winners. I'd love to get a 900% pay raise

Yes they work but they also mooch off the taxpayer . They contribute very little. Again will you see an illegal working for an investment bank? Are they in labs splitting Atoms?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Well, how about that!



What have I been saying about actually cutting off the source???!?!?!

What makes more sense: mobilizing our military along all of our borders while trying to "starve illegals out"...or slamming the book down on those that exploit illegals and overhauling the immigration process coupled with a realistic increase of security along the southern border?

Well if our military would be allowed to use force instead of giving them water and allowing safe passage. You bet they would think twice about hopping a fence

You use all those procedures. Punish the employers and starve them out. Its a multi tiered solution

[Barnaby Jones]

Who said they dont work? They are stealing jobs from Americans and legal immigrants. Employers do not want to pay a fair market wage so they can undercut and pay some illegal.

Yes illegals are lottery winners. I'd love to get a 900% pay raise

Yes they work but they also mooch off the taxpayer . They contribute very little. Again will you see an illegal working for an investment bank? Are they in labs splitting Atoms?

They contribute relatively little individually because they make so little! That just brings us back to how those exploiting the illegals are the main problem here since they're both the main draw for people to come here illegally and they're taking advantage of these people!

And you're basically saying they don't work! You can't sit here and pretend like you consider their work ethic at all when you take every possible opportunity to call them lazy or freeloaders and lottery winners. You do everything possible to paint the image of illegals as people who do nothing and only expect to be taken care of! Don't pretend otherwise; we're not blind and you post this shit almost every single day, so which is it? Do you think most illegals actually work and work hard or do you think most of them do nothing except hang around and just expect handouts?

Your recent arguments keep hanging on this ridiculous idea of "starving them out," and that just betrays how you do think they do almost nothing but survive off of handouts and expect to be taken care of! You'll mention how you want to crack down on people who exploit illegals when pushed, but then you just come back to your usual boogeyman of how "lazy illegals expecting entitlements" are the real problem when they're actually coming here because we have what's basically a gigantic off the grid employment market willing to hire these people and pay them shit! It fucks us over on multiple levels because that's the main draw for illegals AND the exploitation keeps too many of them stuck at levels where they need government assistance to survive! Cut off the main draw in the people who do the hiring and the renting and you've majorly impacted both in the long run! Couple it with significant immigration reform and something like DREAM that makes the people willing to stay earn their citizenship and you'll see true lasting change to the immigration situation!!!

[Barnaby Jones]

Well if our military would be allowed to use force instead of giving them water and allowing safe passage. You bet they would think twice about hopping a fence

You use all those procedures. Punish the employers and starve them out. Its a multi tiered solution

It's a dumb ass, inhumane, unrealistic solution!!! Do you realize the true levels of suffering you'd have to push most of these people to to make them return home? Hell, how do you expect most of them to be able to fly their entire family home if you've left them starving and with nothing?

Please don't tell me you just expect everyone to just head into Mexico! You do realize how close it is to being a failed state already, yes? (Cue WF link to how the world's richest man is Mexican or the number of Mexican millionaires)

[WRESTLINGFAN]

They contribute relatively little individually because they make so little! That just brings us back to how those exploiting the illegals are the main problem here since they're both the main draw for people to come here illegally and they're taking advantage of these people!

And you're basically saying they don't work! You can't sit here and pretend like you consider their work ethic at all when you take every possible opportunity to call them lazy or freeloaders and lottery winners. You do everything possible to paint the image of illegals as people who do nothing and only expect to be taken care of! Don't pretend otherwise; we're not blind and you post this shit almost every single day, so which is it? Do you think most illegals actually work and work hard or do you think most of them do nothing except hang around and just expect handouts?

Your recent arguments keep hanging on this ridiculous idea of "starving them out," and that just betrays how you do think they do almost nothing but survive off of handouts and expect to be taken care of! You'll mention how you want to crack down on people who exploit illegals when pushed, but then you just come back to your usual boogeyman of how "lazy illegals expecting entitlements" are the real problem when they're actually coming here because we have what's basically a gigantic off the grid employment market willing to hire these people and pay them shit! It fucks us over on multiple levels because that's the main draw for illegals AND the exploitation keeps too many of them stuck at levels where they need government assistance to survive! Cut off the main draw in the people who do the hiring and the renting and you've majorly impacted both in the long run! Couple it with significant immigration reform and something like DREAM that makes the people willing to stay earn their citizenship and you'll see true lasting change to the immigration situation!!!

They should not receive one dime of government assistance. There are churches who can provide them food and shelter and assistance. Thats one of their main duties. Why should someone who is not allowed to be here be entitled to my money? If you want to open your wallet and help them then its your choice. I'm not going to tell you how to spend your money. If you want to take in an illegal family go ahead but taking money from taxpayers and giving it to a bunch of people looking to milk the system is reprehensible.

I NEVER SAID THEY DON'T WORK. Im saying the amount of government assistance they consume far outweighs the cheap labor. Illegals have driven other minorities who are either citizens or here legally who are low skilled workers out of the market.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

It's a dumb ass, inhumane, unrealistic solution!!! Do you realize the true levels of suffering you'd have to push most of these people to to make them return home? Hell, how do you expect most of them to be able to fly their entire family home if you've left them starving and with nothing?

Please don't tell me you just expect everyone to just head into Mexico! You do realize how close it is to being a failed state already, yes? (Cue WF link to how the world's richest man is Mexican or the number of Mexican millionaires)

There are millions of greyhound, school buses etc to ship them back, Illegals can self deport by going to the consulate and asking assistance to send them back. Please see below. Enforcement works and they are self deporting


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[Snacks]

Stupid illegals


http://www2.wspa.com/news/2010/dec/20/deputies-men-brag-about-being-illegal-immigrants-a-ar-1246613/

its what thing to hate that they came here illegally its another thing to spew hate at the people. its starting to seem your hate is only that they are illegals from Mexico and South America? Your hate seems to be more racist then anything.

youre actually hurting your argument!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

its what thing to hate that they came here illegally its another thing to spew hate at the people. its starting to seem your hate is only that they are illegals from Mexico and South America? Your hate seems to be more racist then anything.

youre actually hurting your argument!

Whats wrong with calling them stupid? They taunted the cops and were caught.
There are tons of Russians Chinese, Albanian and Irish illegals here. Especially in NY. Boot them out as well. I don't discriminate

Illegals from Latin America happen to be the ones committing most of the crimes , on public assistance and the overwhelming majority of illegals. Thats not racism, thats just a fact.

My problem is aimed at the illegals. I admit that but the resentment also goes to their enablers, their employers and the politicians.

My Girlfriend is from Peru. She came here legally is self sufficient, has an MBA and is going for her citizenship in March and she takes offense to people cutting the line.


If you think Im someone who wants an all Anglo country youre mistaken. Come here from whatever country you like, but do it the right way.

[Zorro]

its what thing to hate that they came here illegally its another thing to spew hate at the people. its starting to seem your hate is only that they are illegals from Mexico and South America? Your hate seems to be more racist then anything.

youre actually hurting your argument!

Second

[Barnaby Jones]

There are millions of greyhound, school buses etc to ship them back, Illegals can self deport by going to the consulate and asking assistance to send them back. Please see below. Enforcement works and they are self deporting


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Are you blind? I specifically asked about flying back!!! You can't just bus everyone to the countries they came from!!! And embassies and consulates aren't going to be able to take everyone back!!! It's a completely impractical plan, yet you keep pointing to Mexicans taking a very short trip to Mexico (or illegals simply moving to other states, a big difference from being able to get back to a different country if you have nothing) as proof that most illegals can self-deport if they are "starved out!"

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Are you blind? I specifically asked about flying back!!! You can't just bus everyone to the countries they came from!!! And embassies and consulates aren't going to be able to take everyone back!!! It's a completely impractical plan, yet you keep pointing to Mexicans taking a very short trip to Mexico (or illegals simply moving to other states, a big difference from being able to get back to a different country if you have nothing) as proof that most illegals can self-deport if they are "starved out!"

Guess you never read this article


http://articles.sfgate.com/2009-07-01/business/17217110_1_money-transfer-immigrants-western-union

[Barnaby Jones]

They should not receive one dime of government assistance. There are churches who can provide them food and shelter and assistance. Thats one of their main duties. Why should someone who is not allowed to be here be entitled to my money? If you want to open your wallet and help them then its your choice. I'm not going to tell you how to spend your money. If you want to take in an illegal family go ahead but taking money from taxpayers and giving it to a bunch of people looking to milk the system is reprehensible.

Oh, just stop!!! The whole "my money" argument is such smallminded nonsense!!! There's a million things we each don't want the government spending our "money" on, and acting like it's being taken out of your wallet is just dumb!!

Again, after everything I pointed out you use another term like "milk the system," again making it sound like the intention of most illegals is to come here and receive assistance and handouts and not work or put anything into the system!!! That's not the case!!! Most of them receiving assistance is a byproduct of them being here and being exploited and not their main goal! You don't have to paint them to be lazy caricatures and villains to make your points!!!

I NEVER SAID THEY DON'T WORK. Im saying the amount of government assistance they consume far outweighs the cheap labor. Illegals have driven other minorities who are either citizens or here legally who are low skilled workers out of the market.

Yes, you've essentially said they don't work by repeatedly and willingly making them out to be welfare mom-type cartoons and stereotypes every chance you get!!

And no, what they consume doesn't outweigh the money made off of them!! It outweighs the taxes made off of them, but not the total money made, and it's not even close, hence why they've been tolerated for so long!!! That's the main reason we've seen so little lasting reform towards the immigration process and cracking down on the exploiters because too many people are making money off of them!!! It's also why your ideas are just these scatter shot pipe dreams that have zero chance of occurring because they revolve around the idea of getting rid of the illegals and then choking off the ability of people to get here!!! You'll deny this, but it's unavoidable conclusion when you want to starve them out, seal off the borders and do nothing to change the immigration process!!!

That's why when you say things like:

Come here from whatever country you like, but do it the right way.

...it's so laughable because the "right way" is so fucking broken and worthless!!! The "right way" is inefficient, incompetent and just delivers people into exploitation!!!

[Barnaby Jones]

Guess you never read this article


http://articles.sfgate.com/2009-07-01/business/17217110_1_money-transfer-immigrants-western-union

You realize that article is about LEGAL immigrants asking for money from family in their home countries so they can stay here, right? You know, the ones who typically have more resources available to them than illegals?!?!? Man, you really buy into that image of lazy, welfare hoarding illegals, don't you?

How often do you actually read through your links and sources???!?!?!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Oh, just stop!!! The whole "my money" argument is such smallminded nonsense!!! There's a million things we each don't want the government spending our "money" on, and acting like it's being taken out of your wallet is just dumb!!

Again, after everything I pointed out you use another term like "milk the system," again making it sound like the intention of most illegals is to come here and receive assistance and handouts and not work or put anything into the system!!! That's not the case!!! Most of them receiving assistance is a byproduct of them being here and being exploited and not their main goal! You don't have to paint them to be lazy caricatures and villains to make your points!!!



Yes, you've essentially said they don't work by repeatedly and willingly making them out to be welfare mom-type cartoons and stereotypes every chance you get!!

And no, what they consume doesn't outweigh the money made off of them!! It outweighs the taxes made off of them, but not the total money made, and it's not even close, hence why they've been tolerated for so long!!! That's the main reason we've seen so little lasting reform towards the immigration process and cracking down on the exploiters because too many people are making money off of them!!! It's also why your ideas are just these scatter shot pipe dreams that have zero chance of occurring because they revolve around the idea of getting rid of the illegals and then choking off the ability of people to get here!!! You'll deny this, but it's unavoidable conclusion when you want to starve them out, seal off the borders and do nothing to change the immigration process!!!

That's why when you say things like:



...it's so laughable because the "right way" is so fucking broken and worthless!!! The "right way" is inefficient, incompetent and just delivers people into exploitation!!!



I pay federal income taxes so its coming out of my salary. GET IT?

I do not care if they work. They can keep having children and not contribute to our society. That is morally reprehensible on their part and on the part of the politicians and the government.


Coming to this country is not a right. Its a privilege. To say that someone has a human right to come here is laughable. As snacks said we already have 310 million peolle here.

Unless you want a Western European model, Thats whats going to happen

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You realize that article is about LEGAL immigrants asking for money from family in their home countries so they can stay here, right? You know, the ones who typically have more resources available to them than illegals?!?!? Man, you really buy into that image of lazy, welfare hoarding illegals, don't you?

How often do you actually read through your links and sources???!?!?!




"Fairview, N.J. — For five years, immigrant day laborer Leo Chamale wired money twice a month from New Jersey to his family in Guatemala. Recently, he stepped up to the money-transfer window for a different purpose - to ask that his family send some of his savings back to him.

"I hadn't worked for five months, and I was two months behind on rent, so I had them send $1,500," the 21-year-old Chamale said in Spanish. "My mother said, 'That's a lot of money!'


IMMIGRANT DAY LABORER=ILLEGAL ALIEN!!!!!

Must I post en Espanol for you?

[Dudeman]

"Fairview, N.J. — For five years, immigrant day laborer Leo Chamale wired money twice a month from New Jersey to his family in Guatemala. Recently, he stepped up to the money-transfer window for a different purpose - to ask that his family send some of his savings back to him.

"I hadn't worked for five months, and I was two months behind on rent, so I had them send $1,500," the 21-year-old Chamale said in Spanish. "My mother said, 'That's a lot of money!'


IMMIGRANT DAY LABORER=ILLEGAL ALIEN!!!!!

Must I post en Espanol for you?

Here is an article from the LATimes that actually deals with people affected by the Dream Act. (http://articles.latimes.com/2010/nov/28/local/la-me-dream-act-20101128) (What does the story you quoted have to do with the Dream Act, other than proving that you hate Hispanics.)

"At first my parents said, 'What are you doing? You're risking so much,' " said David Cho, the UCLA drum major. "But I told them, 'It's not only me. There are thousands of students like me trapped in a broken system. Unless our generation speaks out, the politicians won't tackle it. They have to see our faces.' "

Cho, 21, who conducts the 250-member UCLA marching band in front of 75,000 people at the Rose Bowl, came to the U.S. from South Korea at the age of 9. It wasn't until he was accepted to UCLA that his father showed him a letter saying the family's visa wasn't valid.

"I grew up here, worked hard, got into UCLA. And there I was staring at this letter telling me to go 'home,' when this is home," Cho said. "My whole world flipped upside down."

With no papers, Cho can attend school but not legally work, drive or receive financial aid. He sleeps on a friend's couch or sometimes at the UCLA library. He tutors SAT students 30 hours a week for cash. More than once he's depended on charitable "food closets" on campus to get something to eat.

He has a double major in international economics and Korean, maintains a 3.6 grade-point average and is on schedule to graduate a quarter early. He plays seven musical instruments.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Here is an article from the LATimes that actually deals with people affected by the Dream Act. (http://articles.latimes.com/2010/nov/28/local/la-me-dream-act-20101128) (What does the story you quoted have to do with the Dream Act, other than proving that you hate Hispanics.)

"At first my parents said, 'What are you doing? You're risking so much,' " said David Cho, the UCLA drum major. "But I told them, 'It's not only me. There are thousands of students like me trapped in a broken system. Unless our generation speaks out, the politicians won't tackle it. They have to see our faces.' "

Cho, 21, who conducts the 250-member UCLA marching band in front of 75,000 people at the Rose Bowl, came to the U.S. from South Korea at the age of 9. It wasn't until he was accepted to UCLA that his father showed him a letter saying the family's visa wasn't valid.

"I grew up here, worked hard, got into UCLA. And there I was staring at this letter telling me to go 'home,' when this is home," Cho said. "My whole world flipped upside down."

With no papers, Cho can attend school but not legally work, drive or receive financial aid. He sleeps on a friend's couch or sometimes at the UCLA library. He tutors SAT students 30 hours a week for cash. More than once he's depended on charitable "food closets" on campus to get something to eat.

He has a double major in international economics and Korean, maintains a 3.6 grade-point average and is on schedule to graduate a quarter early. He plays seven musical instruments.

Who hates Hispanics? Thats your cheap petty way of saying you disagree with me. But Im immune to your childish rants.

Cho can blame his parents not our system. In fact the parents should be charged with human smuggling.


Why is he even allowed to go to school? He's using a fake SSN. Identity theft there. Again we can not continue being a dumping ground for the world. Come here the right way.

[Jujubees2]

Here is an article from the LATimes that actually deals with people affected by the Dream Act. (http://articles.latimes.com/2010/nov/28/local/la-me-dream-act-20101128) (What does the story you quoted have to do with the Dream Act, other than proving that you hate Hispanics.)

"At first my parents said, 'What are you doing? You're risking so much,' " said David Cho, the UCLA drum major. "But I told them, 'It's not only me. There are thousands of students like me trapped in a broken system. Unless our generation speaks out, the politicians won't tackle it. They have to see our faces.' "

Cho, 21, who conducts the 250-member UCLA marching band in front of 75,000 people at the Rose Bowl, came to the U.S. from South Korea at the age of 9. It wasn't until he was accepted to UCLA that his father showed him a letter saying the family's visa wasn't valid.

"I grew up here, worked hard, got into UCLA. And there I was staring at this letter telling me to go 'home,' when this is home," Cho said. "My whole world flipped upside down."

With no papers, Cho can attend school but not legally work, drive or receive financial aid. He sleeps on a friend's couch or sometimes at the UCLA library. He tutors SAT students 30 hours a week for cash. More than once he's depended on charitable "food closets" on campus to get something to eat.

He has a double major in international economics and Korean, maintains a 3.6 grade-point average and is on schedule to graduate a quarter early. He plays seven musical instruments.

Who hates Hispanics? Thats your cheap petty way of saying you disagree with me. But Im immune to your childish rants.

Cho can blame his parents not our system. In fact the parents should be charged with human smuggling.


Why is he even allowed to go to school? He's using a fake SSN. Identity theft there. Again we can not continue being a dumping ground for the world. Come here the right way.

Besides the lazy ass only plays seven instruments. Why not eight? Ship hm back and let him work on the Hyundai factory line.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Besides the lazy ass only plays seven instruments. Why not eight? Ship hm back and let him work on the Hyundai factory line.

What do you call a government that has a constitutional duty to protect its borders and citizens from invasion and fails to do so?

Refer to Article 4 section 4 of the constitution

The dream act would have allowed 2 million illegals to compete for jobs against 15 million unemployed AMERICANS!!!!!! You progressives always want to talk about fair. How is that fair?

Theres always room for compromise. Heres how
If someone serves 4 years in the military and gets an Honorable discharge then I can make an exception for that. If someone is willing to go into harms way, more power to him. I would allow the process to be expedited

[Zorro]

Here is an article from the LATimes that actually deals with people affected by the Dream Act. (http://articles.latimes.com/2010/nov/28/local/la-me-dream-act-20101128) (What does the story you quoted have to do with the Dream Act, other than proving that you hate Hispanics.)

"At first my parents said, 'What are you doing? You're risking so much,' " said David Cho, the UCLA drum major. "But I told them, 'It's not only me. There are thousands of students like me trapped in a broken system. Unless our generation speaks out, the politicians won't tackle it. They have to see our faces.' "

Cho, 21, who conducts the 250-member UCLA marching band in front of 75,000 people at the Rose Bowl, came to the U.S. from South Korea at the age of 9. It wasn't until he was accepted to UCLA that his father showed him a letter saying the family's visa wasn't valid.

"I grew up here, worked hard, got into UCLA. And there I was staring at this letter telling me to go 'home,' when this is home," Cho said. "My whole world flipped upside down."

With no papers, Cho can attend school but not legally work, drive or receive financial aid. He sleeps on a friend's couch or sometimes at the UCLA library. He tutors SAT students 30 hours a week for cash. More than once he's depended on charitable "food closets" on campus to get something to eat.

He has a double major in international economics and Korean, maintains a 3.6 grade-point average and is on schedule to graduate a quarter early. He plays seven musical instruments.

I'm going to guess Cho's case is is unique and while I feel for him personally I was not a fan of the DREAM Act. Mostly because I don't think it was properly vetted and because the way I read the two year college requirement led me to believe that there would be all sorts of Bill & Ted's Excellent Colleges opening up in strip malls everywhere. My other concern is that turning illegal aliens into mercenaries whose payment is citizenship is just wrong. If this country is going to fight a war it has a duty and obligation to do it with people here legally.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

One area where Obama is enforcing more than Dubya did


http://www.kold.com/Global/story.asp?S=13719753

Looks like sanctuary State of MA is starting to comply

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2010/12/18/state_joins_us_push_on_illegal_immigrants/

[underdog]

My Girlfriend is from Peru. She came here legally is self sufficient, has an MBA and is going for her citizenship in March and she takes offense to people cutting the line.

I pay federal income taxes so its coming out of my salary. GET IT?

No one believes that you have a job, much less a girlfriend.

[spoon]

No one believes that you have a job, much less a girlfriend.

:unsure:

Oooooooooo!



You going to take that WRESTLING FAN!?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

No one believes that you have a job, much less a girlfriend.

Words coming from a guy to had to blow some truckdriver for a free hitch to Canada

[spoon]

Words coming from a guy to had to blow some truckdriver for a free hitch to Canada

Well then, the ride wasn't so free was it smart ass?

[underdog]

Words coming from a guy to had to blow some truckdriver for a free hitch to Canada

It was anal, stupid.

[Snacks]

I just read an article on the Dream Act that dumbed it down a little to make it make sense and I may have changed my mind on this idea.

It stated that the people eligible for the pathway to citizenship must enter the military for 2 years and or go to college. Then after thats is completed they still must go on a wait list for 10 years. Now as long as they are paying for their own college and its not free then Im down with this. Especially since this is for kids brought here by their parents. I would also hope it doesnt automatically make their parents citizens? Nothing should change for their parents because they would be too old to join the military and they were the one who broke the law in the 1st place. This should only help infants, toddlers and teens brought over by their parents and the kids not knowing they are illegal!

I think I could be ok with this.

Now if the child getting citizenship makes it so the parents get it too or that they can bring others over then all it is, is a mask for what is basically amnesty for all disguised as helping some!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I just read an article on the Dream Act that dumbed it down a little to make it make sense and I may have changed my mind on this idea.

It stated that the people eligible for the pathway to citizenship must enter the military for 2 years and or go to college. Then after thats is completed they still must go on a wait list for 10 years. Now as long as they are paying for their own college and its not free then Im down with this. Especially since this is for kids brought here by their parents. I would also hope it doesnt automatically make their parents citizens? Nothing should change for their parents because they would be too old to join the military and they were the one who broke the law in the 1st place. This should only help infants, toddlers and teens brought over by their parents and the kids not knowing they are illegal!

I think I could be ok with this.

Now if the child getting citizenship makes it so the parents get it too or that they can bring others over then all it is, is a mask for what is basically amnesty for all disguised as helping some!


I would comprimise for military service but it should be for at least 4 years. Thats your regular enlistment contract. 2 years is not enough. As previously stated they must be discharged honorablly, no bad conduct or dishonorable discharges.

Any form of sponsoring illegal parents or chain migration, I would not go for at all.

[Barnaby Jones]

"Fairview, N.J. — For five years, immigrant day laborer Leo Chamale wired money twice a month from New Jersey to his family in Guatemala. Recently, he stepped up to the money-transfer window for a different purpose - to ask that his family send some of his savings back to him.

"I hadn't worked for five months, and I was two months behind on rent, so I had them send $1,500," the 21-year-old Chamale said in Spanish. "My mother said, 'That's a lot of money!'


IMMIGRANT DAY LABORER=ILLEGAL ALIEN!!!!!

Must I post en Espanol for you?

Really? He MUST be illegal based on that?!? Pathetic.

[Barnaby Jones]

I pay federal income taxes so its coming out of my salary. GET IT?

I get it; you clearly do not. You're not paying for illegal immigrants anymore than you're paying for nuclear weapons or highways or post offices. You have no idea how your taxes are actually spent, and you seem to think illegals are causing you to pay taxes or more than you should be!!!

Tell me this, WF: if all illegals suddenly vanished in this country, besides your hideous permanent boner do you honestly think your taxes would change?

[Barnaby Jones]

To say that someone has a human right to come here is laughable.

Hey, look! WF completely making up something that nobody posted in this thread! What a shocker!!!

[Dudeman]

Hey, look! WF completely making up something that nobody posted in this thread! What a shocker!!!

Yeah. Go look at the wacky, non-sequiturs WF is trying to post in the Tax thread in attempt to deflect the fact that he mocked the need for child protective services and thinks that charities, not government agencies, should investigate cases of child abuse.

[Snacks]

I would comprimise for military service but it should be for at least 4 years. Thats your regular enlistment contract. 2 years is not enough. As previously stated they must be discharged honorablly, no bad conduct or dishonorable discharges.

Any form of sponsoring illegal parents or chain migration, I would not go for at all.

no its not, when I enlisted it was 2 years active, 6 years inactive reserve!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

no its not, when I enlisted it was 2 years active, 6 years inactive reserve!

I enlisted it was for 4 years active, 4 yrs inactive. That was for the Marines

Im guessing other branches have different criteria

[Snacks]

I enlisted it was for 4 years active, 4 yrs inactive. That was for the Marines

Im guessing other branches have different criteria

Navy was different. When I enlisted it was 20 years ago before gulf war and they put you in DEPS

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I get it; you clearly do not. You're not paying for illegal immigrants anymore than you're paying for nuclear weapons or highways or post offices. You have no idea how your taxes are actually spent, and you seem to think illegals are causing you to pay taxes or more than you should be!!!

Tell me this, WF: if all illegals suddenly vanished in this country, besides your hideous permanent boner do you honestly think your taxes would change?

Post offices and post roads and raising a military is in the 18 enumarated powers

You are missing the point that i am paying for people here ILLEGALLY!!!!!!!

Knowing the power hungry bastards in DC Im sure they in their infinite wisdom will wind new ways to piss away money if all illegals were gone.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Really? He MUST be illegal based on that?!? Pathetic.

If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck.

Boy are you clueless

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Do we even have a country anymore? These goddamn judges let illegals piss on this country and now will let them sue.


http://www.newhavenregister.com/articles/2010/12/18/news/aa3_iceruling121810.txt

[WRESTLINGFAN]

3 DWI's and hes still here?


http://www.examiner.com/immigration-reform-in-national/illegal-alien-charged-with-his-third-dui-michigan


Come on now If you are taking your child to the hospital why would you be driving drunk?

[Barnaby Jones]

If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck.

Boy are you clueless

Boy are you biased! But that's nothing new!

[Barnaby Jones]

Do we even have a country anymore? These goddamn judges let illegals piss on this country and now will let them sue.


http://www.newhavenregister.com/articles/2010/12/18/news/aa3_iceruling121810.txt

WF thinks the Constitution only applies to Americans! What a loon!

[Barnaby Jones]

3 DWI's and hes still here?


http://www.examiner.com/immigration-reform-in-national/illegal-alien-charged-with-his-third-dui-michigan


Come on now If you are taking your child to the hospital why would you be driving drunk?

Let me guess, you're not mad at the police at all over this, right?

[booster11373]

Let me guess, you're not mad at the police at all over this, right?

To be fair so did the Bush Administration

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Let me guess, you're not mad at the police at all over this, right?

The police should have put an immigration detainer on him and handed him over to ICE on the 1st DWI

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Boy are you biased! But that's nothing new!

Youre so gullible.

I'll break it down to you again so its simple for you.

Guatemalan
Day Laborer
Sending remittances home
Doesnt speak English
New Jersey.

[Barnaby Jones]

The police should have put an immigration detainer on him and handed him over to ICE on the 1st DWI

No shit, sherlock! So lay your brilliant ideas on us as to how you're going to convince/force local authorities to go through the process to get rid of an illegal every time they come across one! This is a slow day and I need some laughs!

[Jujubees2]

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[Barnaby Jones]

Youre so gullible.

I'll break it down to you again so its simple for you.

Guatemalan
Day Laborer
Sending remittances home
Doesnt speak English
New Jersey.

This is hilarious! You're absolutely convinced this guy must be illegal! It's so fucking funny how you keep dancing around your complete disdain for these people! Just be honest with yourself! All the stress of the lies is probably giving you lots of pimples and fat!

Remember folks, in WF's mind he thinks those factors mean that it's impossible that this guy is here legally!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

No shit, sherlock! So lay your brilliant ideas on us as to how you're going to convince/force local authorities to go through the process to get rid of an illegal every time they come across one! This is a slow day and I need some laughs!

Its called due diligence

[WRESTLINGFAN]

This is hilarious! You're absolutely convinced this guy must be illegal! It's so fucking funny how you keep dancing around your complete disdain for these people! Just be honest with yourself! All the stress of the lies is probably giving you lots of pimples and fat!

Remember folks, in WF's mind he thinks those factors mean that it's impossible that this guy is here legally!

You really are slow aren't you.

How many American citizens wait at the side of the road, waiting for someone to pick them up for the day so they can send cash back to Guatemala.

[Dudeman]

This is a slow day and I need some laughs!

Go read his arguments in the "Tax" thread where he mocks the need for Child Protective Services all in the name of saying government is bad and that charities and churches can do everything.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Go read his arguments in the "Tax" thread where he mocks the need for Child Protective Services all in the name of saying government is bad and that charities and churches can do everything.

Geez still on that kick? Can't comprehend? Take the helmet off your head

[Dudeman]

Geez still on that kick? Can't comprehend? Take the helmet off your head

Oh good! Mock CPS and then mock children with disabilities. Stick to discussing whether you find a pundit sexy.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

With membership dwindling. They gotta fill the churches .




http://news.yahoo.com/s/ac/20101223/pl_ac/7460650_catholic_church_supports_illegal_aliens_ca lls_for_immigration_reform

[spoon]

3 DWI's and hes still here?


http://www.examiner.com/immigration-reform-in-national/illegal-alien-charged-with-his-third-dui-michigan


Come on now If you are taking your child to the hospital why would you be driving drunk?

Hey he's in good company with this guy!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/88/46_Dick_Cheney_3x4.jpg/250px-46_Dick_Cheney_3x4.jpg

[Dudeman]

Hey he's in good company with this guy!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/88/46_Dick_Cheney_3x4.jpg/250px-46_Dick_Cheney_3x4.jpg

oh no, you fell into WF's traps-
1. he'll bring up ted kennedy
2. he's altered the discussion to stupid(er) stuff to distract everyone for his total lack of logic and intellectual depth

[PapaBear]

oh no, you fell into WF's traps-
1. he'll bring up ted kennedy
2. he's altered the discussion to stupid(er) stuff to distract everyone for his total lack of logic and intellectual depth
Have you ever heard of spoiler tags? Come on!!!

[spoon]

oh no, you fell into WF's traps-
1. he'll bring up ted kennedy
2. he's altered the discussion to stupid(er) stuff to distract everyone for his total lack of logic and intellectual depth

Yet I don't worship the being and ideals of Ted Kennedy and could care less. I think everyone is well aware of WF's idiocy at this point.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Yet I don't worship the being and ideals of Ted Kennedy and could care less. I think everyone is well aware of WF's idiocy at this point.

And I dont worship Cheney so your idiocy shows!!!!!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

oh no, you fell into WF's traps-
1. he'll bring up ted kennedy
2. he's altered the discussion to stupid(er) stuff to distract everyone for his total lack of logic and intellectual depth

Are you a disgruntled ex employee of Halliburton?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Yet I don't worship the being and ideals of Ted Kennedy and could care less. I think everyone is well aware of WF's idiocy at this point.

Way to bring up the Swimmer.

Thanks to him, His disasterous immigration bill happened in 1965. Him and McCain along with Dubyas support wanted amnesty in 2007 and it was killded thankfully

[WRESTLINGFAN]

A violent history, Driving drunk with his anchor baby in the car and he stabs and strangles his wife. Why wasnt this subhuman kicked out on his 1st offense. Clearly we also have a problem with our Immigration and ICE officers as well and also the lowlife judge who granted bail. Incompetence at all ends


http://www.lohud.com/article/201012290325

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I had to go thru 13 weeks of hell at Parris Island to earn the title of Marine. These dopes want to buy a uniform. Ship them to Afghanistan to sniff out IEDs


chevrons? we don't need no stinkin chevrons


http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/mar/22/illegal-immigrants-wearing-marine-uniforms-arreste/

[WRESTLINGFAN]

FREELOADERS!!!!!


http://www.sunshinestatenews.com/story/report-immigrants-use-welfare-system-more-natives

[Syd]

Steve Camarota, director of research for the CIS, said that high rates of welfare usage do not necessarily reflect immigrants' unwillingness to work.

"The vast majority (95 percent) of immigrant households with children had at least one worker in 2009. But their low education levels mean that more than half of these working-immigrant households with children still accessed the welfare system."

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I dont care if they work 24 hours a day at $2.00 an hour, they are still taking more than they are contributing, plus they are not supposed to be here


Its a net fiscal drain. They are consuming social services which means cheap labor isn't so cheap after all. An illegal family with 5 children collecting welfare isn't a problem? This proves that these people collecting are here to milk the system and suck the teet of the taxpayer. Think their own countries would allow this?

[sailor]

it's 2011 now