Immigration Battle 2009-10

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I didn't call you a racist or a xenophobe in that post! Nobody's taking an extra dime from you; you'd be paying the same with or without illegals! For all your talk of entitlements, you seem to have a ridiculously inflated sense of your own financial worth and involvement in this country!

My point is that your clueless complaint about you "footing the bill" is applicable to millions of people who are here "legally!"

Really? If 20 million less people were here, I'd still be paying the same?

[Barnaby Jones]

You seriously think you'd be paying lower taxes if all of the illegal immigrants were suddenly gone?

[spoon]

The same old tired lines of racism. Im immune to that drivel. You fucking hate the facts that I provided sources on how illegal aliens are a drain on society.

No, it's not me claiming racism, it's the fact that ur source and language isn't exactly fair minded.

And I'm not saying illegal immigrants don't have some negative impacts on the country, you just decided to add that in.

[Serpico1103]

The same old tired lines of racism. Im immune to that drivel. You fucking hate the facts that I provided sources on how illegal aliens are a drain on society.

You do realize that people don't think you are racist because you support immigration reform.
They think you are racist because of all the loaded words you use and the angry tone of your comments.

You get too emotional. Do illegals have an impact on our economy? Yes. How big, is it negative or positive? I don't know precisely, probably negative. But, stop with jackpot, anchor, Jose, drunks, criminals, etc.

Or continue to be the character you are perceived as.

[YourAmishDaddy]

It amazes me. Just like other things now contrary, I sat and watched for almost 8 years during the George W Bush presidency the same people now bitching about immigration reform in lockstep behind him look the other way while they talked about open borders, amnesty and a North American union.

Now all of a sudden it all changes. And all that stuff they were for then they're now so against.

Once again I say. Fucking hypocrites.

[hanso]

Why does it always come down to taxes from your side? Any money spent helps the economy.

I would not doubt that illegals put as much if not more by ratio into our economy. Than trickle down does with it's 4 trillion dollar overhead as of now.

[TjM]

I wonder how many times WF has forwarded the "Joe Legal vs. Jose Illegal" e-mail?

Didn't he use that way back in this thread one time :laugh:

[TjM]

http://www.texasgopvote.com/blog/joe-legal-vs-jose-illegal-bs-myths-05141

There are two families: "Joe Legal" and "Jose Illegal." Both families have two parents, two children, and live in California.

Joe Legal works in construction, has a Social Security Number, and makes $25.00 per hour with taxes deducted. Actually, a lot of Illegals do the same. They use a fake SS number.

Jose Illegal also works in construction, has NO Social Security and gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table." Actually, a lot of U.S. Citizens do the same. Employers treat them as "sub contractors" to avoid paying matching taxes and providing WC and UE taxes.

Ready? Now pay attention...

Joe Legal: $25.00 per hour x 40 hours = $1000.00 per week, or $52,000 per year. Now take 30% away for state and federal tax; Joe Legal now has $31,231.00. This is absurd. A single man with that income, with no dependent children will pay less than 20% in taxes, including Social Security and Medicare. This comes to $10,400 leaving Joe Legal with $41,600. Just remember that illegals who used a fake Social Security number are doing the same thing - they're paying money into our Social Security system that they will never collect.

Jose Illegal: $15.00 per hour x 40 hours = $600.00 per week, or $31,200.00 per year. Jose Illegal pays no taxes. Jose Illegal now has $31,200.00. Again, under our current immigration laws, U.S. employers have hired millions of "Jose Illegals" LEGALLY. Their taxes are withheld just like Joe Legal's taxes are withheld.

Joe Legal Pays Medical and Dental Insurance with limited coverage for his family at $600 per month, or $7,200.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $24,031.00.Actually, Joe Legal has $34,400.00. Remember he is paying less than 20% in taxes. Millions of illegals are doing the same thing with fake social security cards.

Joe Illegal has full medical and dental coverage through state and local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00. This is an overstatement. Assuming you are talking about illegals who are not insured (there are millions working for employers with benefits) they are in the same boat as the legal uninsured. Both groups show up at the emergency room for the medical treatment because they cannot be turned away.

Joe Legal makes too much money and is not eligible for food stamps or welfare. Joe Legal pays $500.00 per month for food, or $6000.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $18,031.00.Actually, Joe Legal now has $28,400.00. This also implies that Illegals receive welfare and food stamps. This is not true - both welfare and food stamp programs require a VERIFIED valid Social Security ID.

Joe Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for food stamps and welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00. Again, no one gets foods stamps without a verified SS number! Jose Illegal now has $25,200 after food expenses.

Joe Legal pays rent of $1200.00 per month, or $14,400 per year. Joe Legal now has $9,631.00.Actually, Joe Legal has $14,000.00. Also, many Illegals own their homes, so what is the point?

Jose Illegal receives a $500.00 per month Federal rent subsidy.Again, not true because of the SS ID requirement .

Jose Illegal pays out that $500.00 per month for rent, or $6000.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00. Why would one think the average Jose Illegal pays any less rent than the average "Joe Legal"? This is a deliberate misrepresentation. Jose Illegal's now has $10,800 after rent expense.

Joe Legal pays $200.00 per month, or $2,400.00 per year for insurance. Joe Legal now has $7,231.00. Actually, he now has $11,600.00. Legal status is no guarantee that someone will buy insurance - again the deck is being stacked.

Jose Illegal says "We don't need no stinkin' insurance!" and still has $31,200.00. If Illegals were allowed to renew their drivers licenses, they could buy liability insurance on the cars and trucks that we sold them. Now, we refuse to renew their drivers licenses?!? So, who is it that is keeping Jose Illegal from buying insurance?!?

Joe Legal has to make his $7,231 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, etc.Actually, it is $11,600.00. Yes, he sure does have to make it stretch. Good thing he live in a country that offers more opportunities to people regardless of class or national origin. Everything he buys contributes to our U.S. economy. Everyone should want Joe Legal to succeed. When he succeeds, America succeeds!

Jose Illegal has to make his $31,200.00 (the correct number is $10,800) stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, and what he sends out of the country every month. Jose Illegal can do whatever he wants with his money. But, he also buys goods and services in the United States of America. His money counts the same as Joe Legal.

Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after work.Also known as getting ahead!

Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family. This is a ridiculous characterization. More likely, he is standing on a corner waiting for any job at $10.00 per hour, hoping that the guy that picks him up will pay him.

Joe Legal's and Jose Illegal's children both attend the same school. Joe Legal pays for his children's lunches while Jose Illegal's children get a government sponsored lunch Jose Illegal's children have an after school ESL program. Joe Legal's children go home. They bot get a free lunch and they both study English.

Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same police and fire services, Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay.What makes you think "Jose" did not pay for these services? In Texas, we pay our police and fire services through local sales and property taxes. If Jose had lived in Texas he would have paid plenty of those. Now consider this: If Jose had lived in Arizona, how likely is it that Jose Illegal will call the police when he is the victim of a crime? He is afraid to report the crime as he knows he is subject to deportation!

Do you get it now?!? Yes, it's obvious that you know very little about Illegal Immigration!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

It amazes me. Just like other things now contrary, I sat and watched for almost 8 years during the George W Bush presidency the same people now bitching about immigration reform in lockstep behind him look the other way while they talked about open borders, amnesty and a North American union.

Now all of a sudden it all changes. And all that stuff they were for then they're now so against.

Once again I say. Fucking hypocrites.

Dubya wanted to give illegals Amnesty. Do you remember the backlash he took from that when he tried it 3 years ago?

[sailor]

http://www.texasgopvote.com/blog/joe-legal-vs-jose-illegal-bs-myths-05141

Just remember that illegals who used a fake Social Security number are doing the same thing - they're paying money into our Social Security system that they will never collect.

no time to read all that, just one question from early on: if he has a fake ssn that works for him to maintain employment, why would he not also use that to receive benefits?

[TjM]

no time to read all that, just one question from early on: if he has a fake ssn that works for him to maintain employment, why would he not also use that to receive benefits?

Because when it comes time to collect it might be under a wee bit more scrutiny

[sailor]

Because when it comes time to collect it might be under a wee bit more scrutiny


Doubtful.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

http://www.texasgopvote.com/blog/joe-legal-vs-jose-illegal-bs-myths-05141

Best comment on this.


In response to your comment "Also, many Illegals own their homes, so what is the point?"
Your coverage of property taxes fails to acknowledge how little they contribute to property taxes.
Whether renting or owning; using your words, many Illegals will pack the equivalent of 5 or more people per bedroom into a house or rental.

Our property taxes are not setup to support a population with 10 to 20 people per residence. It cannot be ignored. It happens far too often. I have watched it spread in my family's neighborhood over the last decade. The house across the street has eight vehicles at a single family residence - all in use by adults - the property tax system was not designed to support that many people with an additional six to ten children in a single residence.
The amount of sales tax will not and cannot make up the difference.

Since when did schools or hospitals get property tax and ALSO receive sales tax money in your home town of Houston? I don't believe city or county sales tax pays for either of these.
They are two of the largest drains illegals have on our system and the property taxes are not designed to cover them.

Schools are being devastated because of the quantity of their children that we are asked to educate. It is made worse by the addition of extensive resources to teach them in their language.

We have had a local hospital close because of illegals unable to pay for services.
Don't try to tell me illegals are paying their fair share of taxes in Texas. You are lying to yourself if you truly believe this.

So, NO, Jose did not pay plenty of both (sales and property taxes).

[Willmore]

Jackpot babies get free education while the freeloading parents become more of a burden and pump out more

http://www.ajc.com/opinion/educating-illegal-immigrants-is-594092.html


"The public-education establishment can’t have it both ways on this issue. The Los Angeles school board, for instance, harshly criticizes Arizona’s immigration enforcement law, but also complains about its own budget shortfalls. The numbers, however, confirm that illegal immigration imposes large costs on the public school system."

Yes, let's not educate them.

Because as a government, I would rather have a $12,000 minimum-wage taxpayer, as opposed to a $35,000 high school graduate taxpayer. Makes no fucking sense.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Yes, let's not educate them.

Because as a government, I would rather have a $12,000 minimum-wage taxpayer, as opposed to a $35,000 high school graduate taxpayer. Makes no fucking sense.

Good luck collecting taxes from those grads

http://pewhispanic.org/reports/report.php?ReportID=122

[Willmore]

If they are contributing verry little and consuming more its a net loss.

Think of a business which has expenses of 100k and revenue of 50K. Theres no profit

Take an econ class. It's not a 1-to-1 relationship between what a person spends and what the economic benefit is.

For every study you cite, there are just as many on the other side, claiming that the total economic benefit to the economy offsets any expenses the state incurs.

[Willmore]

Your statement:

Im not going to the hospital for a headcold and crowding the ER like all the illegals are.

USA Today article:

For many illegal immigrants, the fear of deportation outweighs the pain of illness or injury, so they live with their afflictions rather than seeking help until their health problems become critical.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Your statement:



USA Today article:

From the article
, for hospitals that eventually treat them, and for taxpayers who ultimately foot the bill."

[TjM]

Good luck collecting taxes from those grads

http://pewhispanic.org/reports/report.php?ReportID=122

What grads? It says 1-10 dropouts don't have a GED. It doesn't say one in 10 Hispanics dropout A dropout is not a grad

[Kevin]

Yes, let's not educate them.

Because as a government, I would rather have a $12,000 minimum-wage taxpayer, as opposed to a $35,000 high school graduate taxpayer. Makes no fucking sense.

In what world are you making 35k as a highschool grad these days?

You are lucky to make that as a College grad.

I know thw point that you are making but 35k aint happenin..

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Your statement:



USA Today article:

http://online.wsj.com/article/NA_WSJ_PUB:SB125027261061432585.html


Roughly half of the 12 million illegal immigrants in the U.S. don't have health insurance, according to the Pew Hispanic Center, a nonpartisan research group. Like others who can't afford medical care, illegal immigrants tend to flock to hospital emergency rooms, which, under a 1986 law, can't turn people away, even if they can't pay. Emergency-room visits, where treatment costs are much higher than in clinics, jumped 32% nationally between 1996 and 2006, the latest data available.


Sutter Solano Medical Center Chief Executive Terry Glubka wasn't looking to enter the immigration debate when she started lobbying for a clinic in 2006. She was trying to balance her hospital's budget. Between 2000 and 2006, Solano County saw a 13.1% increase in total emergency-room visits, more than twice the state average. Nearly 80% of the visits weren't urgent.
During 2006, the hospital had to write off $12 million in "charity care" -- or services provided to low-income patients who couldn't pay their bills. The charity helped create a $4 million budget shortfall that year.


Yes these freeloading illegals are using the ER as their personal medicine cabinets and not paying anything.

[Willmore]

Good luck collecting taxes from those grads

http://pewhispanic.org/reports/report.php?ReportID=122

Have you even read that article?

It says several things:

1. Hispanics have a higher drop-out rate. Shouldn't you be happy about this, as soon as they drop out, they are no longer a burden on your precious little self and your tax revenue.
2. Latinos born outside of the US drop-out at a higher rate than those born in the US (but they are evil, remember, anchor babies). What a fucking shocker. You will have a harder time graduating from an english-speaking school if you were not born in an english-speaking country. Ay, caramba.
3. When Hispanics drop out, they attain a GED at a lesser rate than blacks or whites. Ok. That tells me nothing in relation to any of your arguments.
4. And the last sentence is a mirror-image of my statement:

However, Hispanic full-time, full-year workers with a GED had about the same mean annual earnings ($33,504) as Hispanics full-time, full-year workers with a high school diploma ($32,972).

Those that went through the system earn a large amount of money, which is, wait for it, NOT ONLY TAXABLE, BUT BENEFITS THE ECONOMY! If a latino has graduated from an American High School, he has spent a significant time in America, and is to a large degree, assimilated into the US consumerist society. They are not the ones that send money back to Mexico, they are the ones that spend shitloads of money on American products.

[Willmore]

http://online.wsj.com/article/NA_WSJ_PUB:SB125027261061432585.html


Roughly half of the 12 million illegal immigrants in the U.S. don't have health insurance, according to the Pew Hispanic Center, a nonpartisan research group. Like others who can't afford medical care, illegal immigrants tend to flock to hospital emergency rooms, which, under a 1986 law, can't turn people away, even if they can't pay. Emergency-room visits, where treatment costs are much higher than in clinics, jumped 32% nationally between 1996 and 2006, the latest data available.


Sutter Solano Medical Center Chief Executive Terry Glubka wasn't looking to enter the immigration debate when she started lobbying for a clinic in 2006. She was trying to balance her hospital's budget. Between 2000 and 2006, Solano County saw a 13.1% increase in total emergency-room visits, more than twice the state average. Nearly 80% of the visits weren't urgent.
During 2006, the hospital had to write off $12 million in "charity care" -- or services provided to low-income patients who couldn't pay their bills. The charity helped create a $4 million budget shortfall that year.


Yes these freeloading illegals are using the ER as their personal medicine cabinets and not paying anything.


http://immigration.freedomblogging.com/2008/08/21/illegal-immigrants-dont-overuse-emergency-room-medi-cal-patients-do/845/

[foodcourtdruide]

Willmore, welcome to the Star Wars Cantina of people who have tried to argue logic with WF regarding illegal immigrants.

[Kevin]

Will..

Why are you taking all this time reading and finding these "silly" facts when you KNOW they will fall on deaf ears.. (blind eyes)?

Barnaby has continued to make point after point and he does not get it..

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I have provided so many sources but yet you pro illegal alien types still don't get it. I have even provided from the Pew Hispanic center.
You all want to reward these people and dismiss the facts that these people are a burden to society, they contribute very little and they entered this country illegally. Everyone wants to pick what fucking crimes can and can't be enforced

[foodcourtdruide]

I have provided so many sources but yet you pro illegal alien types still don't get it. I have even provided from the Pew Hispanic center.
You all want to reward these people and dismiss the facts that these people are a burden to society, they contribute very little and they entered this country illegally. Everyone wants to pick what fucking crimes can and can't be enforced

Interesting. So you believe in 100% enforcement of all laws? Do you think all laws should be enforced to the degree and with the same vigor you want immigration laws enforced? This statement coming from YOU is hysterical.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Interesting. So you believe in 100% enforcement of all laws? Do you think all laws should be enforced to the degree and with the same vigor you want immigration laws enforced? This statement coming from YOU is hysterical.

If I am doing 125 on Qns Blvd you think I should only get off with a warning?

[foodcourtdruide]

If I am doing 125 on Qns Blvd you think I should only get off with a warning?

99% of your posts are not about the threats of speeding cars, or the government not doing enough to enforce speed laws. Do you see what I'm trying to say regarding your previous comment?

Also, you compare an illegal immigrant being in this country as the same threat as someone driving 125 mph in a place where the speed limit is 35 mph?

[Syd]

Also, you compare an illegal immigrant being in this country as the same threat as someone driving 125 mph in a place where the speed limit is 35 mph?

Illegal immigrants murder 10-15k people per year just like speed related fatalities cause 10-15k deaths per year.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

99% of your posts are not about the threats of speeding cars, or the government not doing enough to enforce speed laws. Do you see what I'm trying to say regarding your previous comment?

Also, you compare an illegal immigrant being in this country as the same threat as someone driving 125 mph in a place where the speed limit is 35 mph?

Its the same principle. They are both Illegal and if you get caught you should be punished accordingly. Hence a ticket for speeding and deportation for being here illegally

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Illegal immigrants murder 10-15k people per year just like speed related fatalities cause 10-15k deaths per year.

Too bad the nun who was murdered by that drunken illegal a couple of weeks ago with multiple DWI's cant read your post.

[Kevin]

Here is the main reason of why Ileagal Immigration is a problem..

Nothing to do with taxes or jackpot babies or anything..

That is just retarded.

The gang aspect of it is HUGE.

You can not keep track of many of the hispanic gang members, especial that group (I can't remember the name.. In the south.. M something..

I was watching a show on history about it and they said the only thing they can do is deport them but they sneak right back in within weeks and are VERY hard to track..

It has gone as far as the British MI5 being really worried about the developing Russian spy issue here and in the UK because they come here Ileagaly and are hard to track and do what they want.

BBC Article (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-10986334)

Illegal and invisible

The use of illegals, says Lander, is a menacing type of espionage, perfected by the Russians during the Cold War.

"They were posted into the West with one of two roles," he says.

One, to build up long-term cover with the eventual intention over many years to get a position in a government machine somewhere in the West, where they could spy for good.

"The other role was to be a head agent of a network of spies who had been recruited by others, perhaps the legal residency, and were run from a third country by an illegal - still an intelligence officer, but not under any official cover."

To British intelligence, the fact that Russia is still prepared to fund and deploy illegals against the West is a cause for concern, not least because illegals are extremely difficult to uncover.

It is a growing problem every where...

[Barnaby Jones]

MS-13 gonna getcha!

[Barnaby Jones]

I have provided so many sources but yet you pro illegal alien types still don't get it. I have even provided from the Pew Hispanic center.
You all want to reward these people and dismiss the facts that these people are a burden to society, they contribute very little and they entered this country illegally. Everyone wants to pick what fucking crimes can and can't be enforced

WF thinks everyone that disagrees with him and points out how his shitty arguments fails is "pro-illegal!" Is there anything he won't make up? Guess he's missed how everyone in here has repeatedly said that the immigration system needs to be reformed in one way or another!

[Serpico1103]

Too bad the nun who was murdered by that drunken illegal a couple of weeks ago with multiple DWI's cant read your post.

You can't resist. Stop. It is childish. If you want to change the laws regarding alcohol, post about drunk drinking. If you want to discuss immigration, let it go.

[Kevin]

MS-13 gonna getcha!

Thats the one!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You can't resist. Stop. It is childish. If you want to change the laws regarding alcohol, post about drunk drinking. If you want to discuss immigration, let it go.

You don't see the entire scenario?

The SOB had multiple DWI's and wasnt deported Its as much as an immigration issue as it is a DWI issue

[Barnaby Jones]

Too bad the nun who was murdered by that drunken illegal a couple of weeks ago with multiple DWI's cant read your post.

So in your deluded mind she wouldn't have been killed if they were here legally? Or you automatically assume they wouldn't have been able to get into this country legally? You keep presenting these instances as if we somehow magically prevented illegals from being here potential drunk drivers still wouldn't be able to enter the country legally! Unless....

[WRESTLINGFAN]

So in your deluded mind she wouldn't have been killed if they were here legally? Or you automatically assume they wouldn't have been able to get into this country legally? You keep presenting these instances as if we somehow magically prevented illegals from being here potential drunk drivers still wouldn't be able to enter the country legally! Unless....

She wouldnt have been killed if he wasnt here!!! GET IT ?

[Barnaby Jones]

She wouldnt have been killed if he wasnt here!!! GET IT ?

And you're assuming he couldn't have been here legally? GET IT?!?!?

[Serpico1103]

You don't see the entire scenario?

The SOB had multiple DWI's and wasnt deported Its as much as an immigration issue as it is a DWI issue

Will deporting every illegal have a real impact on the drunk driving issue? No. So, it doesn't make sense to introduce it.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

And you're assuming he couldn't have been here legally? GET IT?!?!?

Because he wasn't here legally!!!!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Will deporting every illegal have a real impact on the drunk driving issue? No. So, it doesn't make sense to introduce it.

When 13% of DWIs are by illegals then it is an issue

http://www.examiner.com/immigration-reform-in-national/illegal-aliens-account-for-13-percent-of-dui-arrests-prince-william-county-va

[Barnaby Jones]

Because he wasn't here legally!!!!!!

Can you think out of the box for two seconds?!??

Stay with me here, Sloth: let's say hypothetically he was here legally. Is he for some reason less likely to have driven drunk if he was a legal citizen?

[Barnaby Jones]

When 13% of DWIs are by illegals then it is an issue

http://www.examiner.com/immigration-reform-in-national/illegal-aliens-account-for-13-percent-of-dui-arrests-prince-william-county-va

Listen up, Gigantor: substance abuse tends to be higher with the poorer demographics, so poor people, legal or illegal are more likely to abuse alcohol and to drive drunk, so, YET AGAIN, unless your ultimate point is that we should keep people below a certain income level out of the country, it wouldn't make a difference if they were here legally or illegally! GET IT?!?!?!?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Listen up, Gigantor: substance abuse tends to be higher with the poorer demographics, so poor people, legal or illegal are more likely to abuse alcohol and to drive drunk, so, YET AGAIN, unless your ultimate point is that we should keep people below a certain income level out of the country, it wouldn't make a difference if they were here legally or illegally! GET IT?!?!?!?

Tell that to all the actors and comedians douche. Are they of a poor demographic ? Theres a lot of rich white kids getting high as well

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Can you think out of the box for two seconds?!??

Stay with me here, Sloth: let's say hypothetically he was here legally. Is he for some reason less likely to have driven drunk if he was a legal citizen?

Will you actually be rational and see that if he wasnt here the nun would be alive ?

[Serpico1103]

When 13% of DWIs are by illegals then it is an issue

http://www.examiner.com/immigration-reform-in-national/illegal-aliens-account-for-13-percent-of-dui-arrests-prince-william-county-va

13% in one small area. Is that where you live? What is the percent nationwide?

Again, I can respect you wanting hard line immigration reform. Using drunk driving as a reason is silly.
You also bring up urinating in public. Stop.
Focus on larger issues. Instead of inflammatory ones.

[Kevin]

Listen up, Gigantor: substance abuse tends to be higher with the poorer demographics, so poor people, legal or illegal are more likely to abuse alcohol and to drive drunk, so, YET AGAIN, unless your ultimate point is that we should keep people below a certain income level out of the country, it wouldn't make a difference if they were here legally or illegally! GET IT?!?!?!?

i'VE seen some mighty rich people get hammered and coked out all the time...

[WRESTLINGFAN]

13% in one small area. Is that where you live? What is the percent nationwide?

Again, I can respect you wanting hard line immigration reform. Using drunk driving as a reason is silly.
You also bring up urinating in public. Stop.
Focus on larger issues. Instead of inflammatory ones.

Drunk driving is a big issue. Do you think illegals using the streets as their toilets isnt a concern?

[Serpico1103]

Drunk driving is a big issue. Do you think illegals using the streets as their toilets isnt a concern?

No.
I see people doing it in the city, usually late at night. Let's implement a curfew to stop it. Get it?

Is it wrong? Yes. Is it illegal? Yes. Is it a reason to rethink immigration policy? No.

I shouldn't but I'll indulge you anyway. A cop pulls over a citizen with a license who has over the legal limit, what are the chances he will be arrested?
A cop pulls over an illegal, without a license, over the legal limit, what are the chances he will be arrested?

Is that 13%, in one county, an accurate depiction of the illegals driving drunk problem?

[Barnaby Jones]

Tell that to all the actors and comedians douche. Are they of a poor demographic ? Theres a lot of rich white kids getting high as well

It's honestly like dealing with a brick wall!!! Where did I say rich people aren't getting high? Where did I say white people aren't getting high? I said poorer people are more likely to abuse alcohol, WHICH INCLUDES WHITE PEOPLE. How are you possibly this obtuse?

[foodcourtdruide]

Too bad the nun who was murdered by that drunken illegal a couple of weeks ago with multiple DWI's cant read your post.

At least you're not making emotionally driven arguments.

[Barnaby Jones]

Will you actually be rational and see that if he wasnt here the nun would be alive ?

How do you know it's impossible he could have been here legally if he went through the immigration process?!?!? THE POINT IS THAT DOING AWAY WITH ILLEGALS DOESN'T NECESSARILY DECREASE DWI'S AND THE LIKE UNLESS YOU'RE ALSO PREVENTING POORER PEOPLE FROM ENTERING THE COUNTRY LEGALLY!!

Follow this logic! If we really want to cut down on illegal immigration, we need to crack down on companies and property owners that exploit illegals and streamline the immigration process. Streamlining and reforming the immigration process means that many of the people that would have come here illegally would be here legally, hence you'll still see similar DWI numbers since alcohol abuse is still more prevalent amongst poorer people. So, ONCE MORE, unless you're also proposing denying entrance to people below a certain income or education level or just sealing off the borders altogether, you wouldn't see a significant drop in DWI's. GET IT?!?!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

No.
I see people doing it in the city, usually late at night. Let's implement a curfew to stop it. Get it?

Is it wrong? Yes. Is it illegal? Yes. Is it a reason to rethink immigration policy? No.

I shouldn't but I'll indulge you anyway. A cop pulls over a citizen with a license who has over the legal limit, what are the chances he will be arrested?
A cop pulls over an illegal, without a license, over the legal limit, what are the chances he will be arrested?

Is that 13%, in one county, an accurate depiction of the illegals driving drunk problem?

Thats in one county, im sure its just as bad throughout the country. If the population of illegals as a whole is 15% thats an alarming rate.

Im using the 20 million as illegal population I think there are more than just 12MM

[WRESTLINGFAN]

How do you know it's impossible he could have been here legally if he went through the immigration process?!?!? THE POINT IS THAT DOING AWAY WITH ILLEGALS DOESN'T NECESSARILY DECREASE DWI'S AND THE LIKE UNLESS YOU'RE ALSO PREVENTING POORER PEOPLE FROM ENTERING THE COUNTRY LEGALLY!!

Follow this logic! If we really want to cut down on illegal immigration, we need to crack down on companies and property owners that exploit illegals and streamline the immigration process. Streamlining and reforming the immigration process means that many of the people that would have come here illegally would be here legally, hence you'll still see similar DWI numbers since alcohol abuse is still more prevalent amongst poorer people. So, ONCE MORE, unless you're also proposing denying entrance to people below a certain income or education level or just sealing off the borders altogether, you wouldn't see a significant drop in DWI's. GET IT?!?!!


I will agree with you again on the employers and landlords part. However the illegals are at fault too. They know that coming here involves risks of arrest, jailtime and possibly deportation.




So youre saying being poor and from Latin America merits an excuse to drink like an animal and run over people. Ahhh I see.

A main reason why illegals drink excessively is because many have left their families at home and in some cases never to see them again, and also due to the downturn of the economy, no more work and making all that cash for them makes them drown their sorrows. Is it an excuse for them ? Of course not!!!!

[Serpico1103]

Thats in one county, im sure its just as bad throughout the country. If the population of illegals as a whole is 15% thats an alarming rate.

Im using the 20 million as illegal population I think there are more than just 12MM

I guess you didn't understand.
"People arrested for DWI" is not the same as "number of people driving drunk."

[foodcourtdruide]

I will agree with you again on the employers and landlords part. However the illegals are at fault too. They know that coming here involves risks of deportation and exploitation.

Were all those poor white Europeans doing the same during the 20th century ?


What are you trying to say here? That white europeans that immigrated in the 20th century didn't cause crime?



So youre saying being poor and from Latin America merits an excuse to drink like an animal and run over people. Ahhh I see.

A main reason why illegals drink excessively is because many have left their families at home, and also due to the downturn of the economy, no more work and making all that cash for them makes them drown their sorrows. Is it an excuse for them ? Of course not!!!!

I am baffled that you typed the bolded part of this quote. Where on Earth did he say it "merits" it?

[epo]

So youre saying being poor and from Latin America merits an excuse to drink like an animal and run over people. Ahhh I see.

A main reason why illegals drink excessively is because many have left their families at home and in some cases never to see them again, and also due to the downturn of the economy, no more work and making all that cash for them makes them drown their sorrows. Is it an excuse for them ? Of course not!!!!

What's your excuse?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

What's your excuse?

As much as you want to, there is no way to deport me.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

What are you trying to say here? That white europeans that immigrated in the 20th century didn't cause crime?



I am baffled that you typed the bolded part of this quote. Where on Earth did he say it "merits" it?

Of course some were in the mob and caused crime etc.

The majority of illegals today are from ___________

[Kevin]

As much as you want to, there is no way to deport me.

Don't tempt him..

He would find a way..

[Barnaby Jones]

So youre saying being poor and from Latin America merits an excuse to drink like an animal and run over people. Ahhh I see.

Quote me where I said what you just accused me of, you fucker. DO IT RIGHT NOW.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Listen up, Gigantor: substance abuse tends to be higher with the poorer demographics, so poor people, legal or illegal are more likely to abuse alcohol and to drive drunk, so, YET AGAIN, unless your ultimate point is that we should keep people below a certain income level out of the country, it wouldn't make a difference if they were here legally or illegally! GET IT?!?!?!?

You just said it!!!!!!

Are the majority of illegal aliens holding PhDs or MBAs?

[Barnaby Jones]

So where exactly does any of that say "being poor and from Latin America merits an excuse to drink like an animal and run over people?"

Go ahead and find that! We'll be waiting!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

So where exactly does any of that say "being poor and from Latin America merits an excuse to drink like an animal and run over people?"

Go ahead and find that! We'll be waiting!

Quit tapdancing around the subject, you know what you said!!!!

Jose is poor and misses his family in Oaxaca Mexico , that leads him to drink

[StanUpshaw]

Quote me where I said what you just accused me of, you fucker. DO IT RIGHT NOW.

I think we owe it to the Mexicans to give them all the liquor they like. They've had tough lives and they deserve it. If they kill anyone on the road, who cares, it's just hayseed American trash. Fuck those guys.

Right there in black and white.

[Kevin]

Quit tapdancing around the subject, you know what you said!!!!

Jose is poor and misses his family in Oaxaca Mexico , that leads him to drink

Yea...

He said that is one of the REASONS why they drink..

Not an EXCUSE for it..

Wow, we have some winners on this board...

[foodcourtdruide]

Of course some were in the mob and caused crime etc.

The majority of illegals today are from ___________

Again, where they're from doesn't matter. The reason the mob was able to flourish with poor immigrants in the 20th century was because of poverty and socio-economic status, not skin color. Addressing those two things (which will likely address themselves in time, as they did with 20th century poor immigrants) would go A LOT further in fixing crime problems with illegal immigrants than your "round them up" mentality. However, it's clear that your agenda is not to lessen crime, drunk driving or even save Americans money. You have a clear hatred for illegal immigrants (mostly Mexican illegal immigrants, though you'll probably deny that, but it's pretty clear to everyone else), in which you'd gladly cut off your nose, to spite your face in order to "fix".

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Yea...

He said that is one of the REASONS why they drink..

Not an EXCUSE for it..

Wow, we have some winners on this board...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barnaby Jones
Quote me where I said what you just accused me of, you fucker. DO IT RIGHT NOW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barnaby Jones
I think we owe it to the Mexicans to give them all the liquor they like. They've had tough lives and they deserve it. If they kill anyone on the road, who cares, it's just hayseed American trash. Fuck those guys.


Need I say more?

[Barnaby Jones]

Quit tapdancing around the subject, you know what you said!!!!

Jose is poor and misses his family in Oaxaca Mexico , that leads him to drink

Yeah, we know what I said because it's been quoted twice; alcohol abuse tends to be more prevalent across poorer demographics, regardless of whether they're legal or illegal citizens! That means you're not going to drastically impact the numbers off DWI's unless you also drastically impact poverty!

[Barnaby Jones]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barnaby Jones
Quote me where I said what you just accused me of, you fucker. DO IT RIGHT NOW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barnaby Jones
I think we owe it to the Mexicans to give them all the liquor they like. They've had tough lives and they deserve it. If they kill anyone on the road, who cares, it's just hayseed American trash. Fuck those guys.


Need I say more?

You honestly think that was a real quote? Do you wear a helmet while you post?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Again, where they're from doesn't matter. The reason the mob was able to flourish with poor immigrants in the 20th century was because of poverty and socio-economic status, not skin color. Addressing those two things (which will likely address themselves in time, as they did with 20th century poor immigrants) would go A LOT further in fixing crime problems with illegal immigrants than your "round them up" mentality. However, it's clear that your agenda is not to lessen crime, drunk driving or even save Americans money. You have a clear hatred for illegal immigrants (mostly Mexican illegal immigrants, though you'll probably deny that, but it's pretty clear to everyone else), in which you'd gladly cut off your nose, to spite your face in order to "fix".

Quit being selective and please go back and read that I want everyone illegally regardless of race deported. But out of convenience you go back to the same line that WF hates the little brown people.

The overall agenda is to improve the quality of life. I know it bothers you that the majority of illegals are from Latin America but those are the facts. Now If we shared a border with sweden and there were millions of blone haired blue eyed people here illegally, I would want them gone

[Kevin]

You honestly think that was a real quote? Do you wear a helmet while you post?

This is EXACTLY how he reads his "sources"


Goddamn this stuff is killing me!

[Barnaby Jones]

Quit being selective and please go back and read that I want everyone illegally regardless of race deported. But out of convenience you go back to the same line that WF hates the little brown people.

Let's find every time WF has posted a link to anything that discusses anything except Latino illegals! Ready? GO! There's at least a million of them here, so it shouldn't be too hard!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You honestly think that was a real quote? Do you wear a helmet while you post?

Who really knows? youre ok with having them pop out kids and not pay for them

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Let's find every time WF has posted a link to anything that discusses anything except Latino illegals! Ready? GO! There's at least a million of them here, so it shouldn't be too hard!

Do a google news search and type illegal immigrant. You will see crimes being committed by people with Spanish last names. Not too many Hans Schmidts in the news

[Barnaby Jones]

When most of the crimes are being done by latino illegals what else is there to report ?

Here's a WF-style response: "Oh, so I guess you have no problem with their crimes then! You just want to reward them for being illegal and not being hispanic!"

[Barnaby Jones]

Do a google news search and type illegal immigrant. You will see crimes being committed by people with Spanish last names. Not too many Hans Schmidts in the news

"Oh, so I guess they only come from Germany and Mexico then, huh?!?! You want to reward all the Indian and Chinese illegals here!!!"

[Barnaby Jones]

Who really knows? youre ok with having them pop out kids and not pay for them

Nobody's said that here! Please try again!

[Willmore]

OK, I quit this thread.

WF, you are the reason democracy fails.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

"Oh, so I guess they only come from Germany and Mexico then, huh?!?! You want to reward all the Indian and Chinese illegals here!!!"

:wallbash:

KICK THEM ALL OUT!!!!!!

[Kevin]

:wallbash:

KICK THEM ALL OUT!!!!!!

God i wish this was the case when your family first moved here.

[Barnaby Jones]

:wallbash:

KICK THEM ALL OUT!!!!!!

"You never mention anyone else so I can only assume that you want them to move into our houses and have free reign over all of our stuff and be given $100k a year salaries for doing ntohing and all the free medicine they want for being awesome!"

[WRESTLINGFAN]

God i wish this was the case when your family first moved here.

Same for your family. Wanna be Italian Americans !!!!!

[booster11373]

OK, I quit this thread.

WF, you are the reason democracy fails.

Win

[Kevin]

Same for your family. Wanna be Italian Americans !!!!!



Yea..

Good one..

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Yea..

Good one..

With weird names who have American ones as nicknames,

[CurseoftheBambi]

With weird names who have American ones as nicknames,

what is your cultural hertiage by the way???

[Barnaby Jones]

what is your cultural hertiage by the way???

Juggalo.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

what is your cultural hertiage by the way???

American of Italian background

[CurseoftheBambi]

oh oh so you support all those nasty things they said about italians when they came over here?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Italianism

[WRESTLINGFAN]

oh oh so you support all those nasty things they said about italians when they came over here?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Italianism

Of course not but they came here LEGALLY!!!!

With a few stowaways I concede

Is there violence like that against Illegals? Yes, but not to that extent

[Willmore]

American of Italian background

I couldn't resist.

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/1338/dumpingh.jpg

[Barnaby Jones]

WF thinks the immigration process in the 19th and early 20th century was some kind of efficient, well ordered process! I think he honestly thinks that all the immigration was done through Ellis Island! Jeepers!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I couldn't resist.

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/1338/dumpingh.jpg

It doesn't bother me. I have no allegiance to Italy

[CurseoftheBambi]

that image isnt about loyalty to italy. it's equaling Italians to rats. Now that i would be offended by. But ...alas..you missed the point. oh and that all italians are violent (see the knives?) affilated with the mob... and oh...look at that "The Unrestricted dumping ground" i guess people felt this way about your ancestors...like you feel about the new kids on the block.

oh and look at that...SOCIALIST on one's hat... the irony is just hilarious.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

that image isnt about loyalty to italy. it's equaling Italians to rats. Now that i would be offended by. But ...alas..you missed the point.

I am not Italian so It doesnt offend me.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

that image isnt about loyalty to italy. it's equaling Italians to rats. Now that i would be offended by. But ...alas..you missed the point. oh and that all italians are violent (see the knives?) affilated with the mob... and oh...look at that "The Unrestricted dumping ground" i guess people felt this way about your ancestors...like you feel about the new kids on the block.

oh and look at that...SOCIALIST on one's hat... the irony is just hilarious.

The new kids on the block are here illegally . Why can't you comprehend that?

[Barnaby Jones]

WF, do you really think most immigrants prior to the 20th century came here "legally?"

[WRESTLINGFAN]

WF, do you really think most immigrants prior to the 20th century came here "legally?"

Yes i do because they had to have a sponsor, be cleared of any diseases, etc.

Of course there were pockets of people coming illegally but not like whats going on today!!

Its about a 4000 mile boatride from Europe. Mexico is next door

[Barnaby Jones]

So Mexico and Canada weren't always "just next door?" And I like how you talk about the trans-Atlantic crossing like it was still this epic, treacherous crossing into the 20th Century! This is very amusing! He also thinks everyone who did go through the process had legit sponsors and were all actually checked for diseases! So cute!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

So Mexico and Canada weren't always "just next door?" And I like how you talk about the trans-Atlantic crossing like it was still this epic, treacherous crossing into the 20th Century! This is very amusing! He also thinks everyone who did go through the process had legit sponsors and were all actually checked for diseases! So cute!

Go ahead tell me where I said that 100% of European immigrants came here legally


"Of course there were pockets of people coming illegally but not like whats going on today!!"

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Seems like there has been a lot of black on brown crime lately

http://completelylegal.lohudblogs.com/2010/08/19/peekskill-men-arraigned-in-brutal-beating-of-immigrant/

Not a peep out of these hispanic groups, but then if whitey did that there would be hell to pay

[hanso]

I provided more than just from Heritage. Heres another one from USA today. I don think they are wearing white sheets and burning crosses there

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2008-01-21-immigrant-healthcare_N.htm

USA today is the McDonalds of news.


Why do you not see that spending money helps the ecnomy? Remember what GWB said about those checks to spend them? Well we did not. The same thing happens with trickle down.

[Barnaby Jones]

Go ahead tell me where I said that 100% of European immigrants came here legally


"Of course there were pockets of people coming illegally but not like whats going on today!!"

Only "pockets!" So funny!

[hanso]

Do a google news search and type illegal immigrant. You will see crimes being committed by people with Spanish last names. Not too many Hans Schmidts in the news

Leave me out of this.


He will come back with some tax mumbo jumbo again.

[hanso]

Leave me out of this.


He will come back with some tax mumbo jumbo again.

About the only time the right cares about paying taxes is when it comes to illegals.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

About the only time the right cares about paying taxes is when it comes to illegals.

Also useless bureaucracies, a bloated DoD budget, just to name a few

[Serpico1103]

Yes i do because they had to have a sponsor, be cleared of any diseases, etc.

Of course there were pockets of people coming illegally but not like whats going on today!!

Its about a 4000 mile boatride from Europe. Mexico is next door

"As the line moved forward, doctors had only a few seconds to examine each immigrant, checking for sixty symptoms, from anemia to varicose veins, which might indicate a wide variety of diseases, disabilities and physical conditions."

I am sure only a few slipped through. http://sydaby.eget.net/swe/ellis_island.htm

Immigration was always viewed as necessary by some and as a drain by others.

[hanso]

Also useless bureaucracies, a bloated DoD budget, just to name a few

I ment people paying taxes. Of course they want people not to have any programs from money put in. SS was almost done away with.


And you skiped over money spent helps the economy. I guess all your blogs offer nothing on this. How about you state your own views on this?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I ment people paying taxes. Of course they want people not to have any programs from money put in. SS was almost done away with.


And you skiped over money spent helps the economy. I guess all your blogs offer nothing on this. How about you state your own views on this?

The FAIR report gave estimates of sales taxes paid by illegals but the amt of social services they use, the cost to jail them etc gives that net loss.

Yes I concur illegals do shop, but are they buying big ticket items? of course not

[WRESTLINGFAN]

"As the line moved forward, doctors had only a few seconds to examine each immigrant, checking for sixty symptoms, from anemia to varicose veins, which might indicate a wide variety of diseases, disabilities and physical conditions."

I am sure only a few slipped through. http://sydaby.eget.net/swe/ellis_island.htm

Immigration was always viewed as necessary by some and as a drain by others.

Medical inspectors developed a letter code to indicate further examination, and roughly every two out of ten immigrants received mystifying chalk marks. This alphabet of ailments ranged from Pg for pregnant to K for hernia and Ft for feet. Those suspected of having feeble minds were chalked with an X, and along with those marked for physical ailments, about nine out of every hundred immigrants were detained for mental examination and further questioning.

There was a somewhat orderly process during that time. Whats going on today is a mass invasion through the desert and over the walls. 20% were red flagged during the ellis island boom

[Barnaby Jones]

WF actually thinks the old time immigration process worked!

Here he is continually saying he wants to slash bloated bureaucracy, and then at the same time championing a bloated bureaucracy that was a waste of time and money and accomplished a fraction of the job it was supposed to do and was rampant with incompetence, corruption and apathy!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

WF actually thinks the old time immigration process worked!

Here he is continually saying he wants to slash bloated bureaucracy, and then at the same time championing a bloated bureaucracy that was a waste of time and money and accomplished a fraction of the job it was supposed to do and was rampant with incompetence, corruption and apathy!

The amount of money saved from giving them entitlements would exceed the cost of enforcement

The government should be actually doing its job as required by article 4 section 4 of the constitution.

Never before with other immigrants have we been forced to babysit an underclass of people who are needy and very dependant of goverment services.

Illegals don't care about laws, they could give a damn about this country, to them and their supporters if they snuck in they could stay, they live outside the law and it creates a situation determines their actions to steal from the American taxpayer. Over 1 million people come here legally every year but these poor precious illegals get a free pass.

But go ahead if it makes you feel better, demonize the taxpayer, after all we are paying the bills for them.

[foodcourtdruide]

The government should be actually doing its job as required by article 4 section 4 of the constitution.

Never before with other immigrants have we been forced to babysit an underclass of people who are needy and very dependant of goverment services.

"underclass of people", wow.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

"underclass of people", wow.

They aren't?

They are working and being exploited by their employers, being paid under the table. Mexico for example is exporting their unskilled, uneducated, illiterate peasants, some who are criminals here so yess they are an underclass. Also the dems want them legalized so that they will be a permanent voting base for them.

Not too many people like Carlos Slim coming here.

btw Why isn't this white illegal alien being deported ?

http://www.dailyrecord.com/article/20100820/COMMUNITIES/100819067/1005/NEWS01/Ex-nurse-from-Lincoln-Park-gets-probation-for-illegally-selling-pain-pills

[foodcourtdruide]

They aren't?

They are working and being exploited by their employers, being paid under the table. Mexico for example is exporting their unskilled, uneducated, illiterate peasants, some who are criminals here so yess they are an underclass. Also the dems want them legalized so that they will be a permanent voting base for them.

Not too many people like Carlos Slim coming here.

btw Why isn't this white illegal alien being deported ?

http://www.dailyrecord.com/article/20100820/COMMUNITIES/100819067/1005/NEWS01/Ex-nurse-from-Lincoln-Park-gets-probation-for-illegally-selling-pain-pills

Sweet, you have a jezo-like conspiracy theory. Which gym do you go to?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Sweet, you have a jezo-like conspiracy theory. Which gym do you go to?

Conspiracy theory?

Democrats want to keep people poor and dependant on government. The more entitlements they dole out the more faithful the electorate is.

Why does Obama want to bypass congress and give Amnesty by executive order then? He knows Congress would kill any Amnesty bill.

Sure cities like Chicago, Detroit, St Louis and others always vote straight GOP

[foodcourtdruide]

Conspiracy theory?

Democrats want to keep people poor and dependant on government. The more entitlements they dole out the more faithful the electorate is.

Sure cities like Chicago, Detroit, St Louis and others always vote straight GOP

Yeah, and places like Mississippi always vote straight democrat.

I find it amazing how black and white you see the world. Also, how is what you're saying not a conspiracy theory? If I said George Bush went to war to help his wealthy friends, because republicans only cared about major corporations, wouldn't that be a conspiracy theory? How is this any different?

[Syd]

Conspiracy theory?

Democrats want to keep people poor and dependant on government. The more entitlements they dole out the more faithful the electorate is.

Why does Obama want to bypass congress and give Amnesty by executive order then? He knows Congress would kill any Amnesty bill.

Sure cities like Chicago, Detroit, St Louis and others always vote straight GOP

Too bad the underclass doesn't go out and vote:

Furthermore, there are enormous disparities that exist in America across income levels in all forms of participation, particularly voting. A study on these disparities found that 86% of people with incomes above $75,000 claim to have voted in presidential elections as compared with only 52% of people with incomes under $15,000. As a result of the participation disparity across demographic lines, politicians are more responsive to the opinions of high-income constituents. A study of roll call votes under the 107th and 108th Congresses reported that legislators were three times more responsive to high-income constituents than middle-income constituents and were the least responsive to the needs of low-income constituents.

[Serpico1103]

Too bad the underclass doesn't go out and vote:

You might be new.

We try to keep facts out of this discussion.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

And the ones that do go out and vote DEMOCRAT!!!!!!


Damn those facts

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2006/pages/results/states/US/H/00/epolls.0.html

[Kevin]

And the ones that do go out and vote DEMOCRAT!!!!!!


Damn those facts

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2006/pages/results/states/US/H/00/epolls.0.html



You mean like the upper class always tending to vote republican?

I guarentee that you would have an easier time changing the mid class vote to rep if they had good idea's, that you would changing upper class vote to Dem..

The problem has not been the poor and illegal stealing money and going on aid, you idiot..

Its the rich legals taking all the money and looking for every way possible to keep as much as they could...

And also outsourcing jobs out of here to put money in THEIR pockets and share with nobody.

If they did their part, then

1: There would be more jobs and money.

2. The money we give out in aid would not hurt nearly as much. Nor would it be needed as much because, you know, PEOPLE WOULD HAVE JOBS.

Your precious Legals are fucking up this country way more than Illegals ever have.

You DOLT!

[Dude!]

You mean like the upper class always tending to vote republican?

You DOLT!

you're really big on
name-calling
for someone who is
a functional illiterate

just fyi, rich people voted
for obama at a higher rate (53%)
than did the middle class (50% - 52%)

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/exit-poll-income.png

[Barnaby Jones]

"underclass of people", wow.

I have no idea why he won't just come out and say he doesn't want poor people to be allowed to become citizens of this country! No watch, he'll claim I called him a racist or xenophobe in this post, yet again betraying even a basic understanding of what the hell he's talking about!

[Dude!]

at least WF is classy enough
not to use the n-word

[Kevin]

Hey Cletus grown ups are talking..

And you do realize that you need to be legal to get food stamps and such right?

You need need to have a green card for at least FIVE years

[Kevin]

Since when is 200k considered rich, you child..

I'm talking about the mega rich.

Nice try of fox newsing it.

[Dude!]

Hey Cletus grown ups are talking..

i love that you came up with
the pet name 'cletus' for me
it is so cute of you

i'm returning the favor
by naming you for
the character you are
most like....


http://www.ronfez.net/gallery//watermark.php?file=5089

[Kevin]

The cutoff line was 250k on taxes So 200 k WOULD vote for Obama..

And lets see your pic Cletus

[sailor]

Can't you people disagree without the name calling?

[Dude!]

Can't you people disagree without the name calling?

he called WF a dolt

[Dude!]

And lets see your pic Cletus

you must be kidding
the thought of you
jerking off to my picture
every day is abhorrent

[Kevin]

Can't you people disagree without the name calling?



Dude! gets destroyed in every argument so he resorts to hackery.

[A.J.]

i wish Dude! and Kevin would just fuck and rid this cesspool of the damn sexual tension.

[Kevin]

i wish Dude! and Kevin would just fuck and rid this cesspool of the damn sexual tension.



I'm way out of his league..

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Since when is 200k considered rich, you child..

I'm talking about the mega rich.

Nice try of fox newsing it.

How low can you go regarding rich?

http://blog.ntu.org/main/post.php?post_id=3921

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You mean like the upper class always tending to vote republican?

I guarentee that you would have an easier time changing the mid class vote to rep if they had good idea's, that you would changing upper class vote to Dem..

The problem has not been the poor and illegal stealing money and going on aid, you idiot..

Its the rich legals taking all the money and looking for every way possible to keep as much as they could...

And also outsourcing jobs out of here to put money in THEIR pockets and share with nobody.

If they did their part, then

1: There would be more jobs and money.

2. The money we give out in aid would not hurt nearly as much. Nor would it be needed as much because, you know, PEOPLE WOULD HAVE JOBS.

Your precious Legals are fucking up this country way more than Illegals ever have.

You DOLT!

Oh yes all those upper class on the upper west side vote for the GOP. So do all the ones in Hollywood.

Who signed NAFTA?

The problem is the politicians doling out cash to the unproductive.

Lets borrow more money from China to help out Pakistan

Who's the idiot now?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Hey Cletus grown ups are talking..

And you do realize that you need to be legal to get food stamps and such right?

You need need to have a green card for at least FIVE years

Illegals do get welfare, foodstamps and other entitlements and their children are entitled to the SCHIP program.

This is why they come here to have children. Aka anchor babies (unfortunatlely due to a horrible interpretation of the 14th ammendment) because they provide that foothold for their parents to receive these entitlements.

[Kevin]

You do realize that there are rich Dems right?

They always voted dem.

And are you seriously against humaniterian aid to pakastan?

Helping people and maybe changing the mindset of one of the biggest Muslim states in the world?

Thats just stupid.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You do realize that there are rich Dems right?

They always voted dem.

And are you seriously against humaniterian aid to pakastan?

Helping people and maybe changing the mindset of one of the biggest Muslim states in the world?

Thats just stupid.

There are private charities who do a better job than the gov't

instead of trying to raise 100MM to build a mega mosque, shouldnt the Imam be helping to raise money for the poor pakistanis?



Just a thought

[Kevin]

I worked in a foodstamp office.

We ALWAYS asked for their green cards and made sure they had them for five years or they don't get it..

[Kevin]

instead of trying to raise 100MM to build a mega mosque, shouldnt the Imam be helping to raise money for the poor pakistanis?

Just a thought



I have my own problems with the Muslim world and governments..

I have stated many times that they are currupt and hypocritical like every gov.

And the flood just recently happened, how do you know he isn't?

[foodcourtdruide]

There are private charities who do a better job than the gov't

instead of trying to raise 100MM to build a mega mosque, shouldnt the Imam be helping to raise money for the poor pakistanis?



Just a thought

Ah, the libertarian mantra... charities as opposed to government to help the poor. And they call liberals idealists.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Ah, the libertarian mantra... charities as opposed to government to help the poor. And they call liberals idealists.

Like the same gov't who mismanages Social security/Medicare and Medicaid or couldnt account for the billions of dollars in Iraq?

From that ultra right wing BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7444083.stm

Waiting for the progressive Jesus encouraged charity line.

Yes, but not at the tip of a Roman sword

[foodcourtdruide]

Like the same gov't who mismanages Social security/Medicare and Medicaid or couldnt account for the billions of dollars in Iraq?

From that ultra right wing BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7444083.stm

Waiting for the progressive Jesus encouraged charity line.

Yes, but not at the tip of a Roman sword

My argument is not that the government is perfect, but relying on the charity of the wealthy for healthcare of the poor is pretty insane. More-so, the enourmous risk of allowing religious organizations to be in charge of this endeavor. Imagine people being forced to change their faith in order to get an operation, or medicine?

[hanso]

The amount of money saved from giving them entitlements would exceed the cost of enforcement

The government should be actually doing its job as required by article 4 section 4 of the constitution.

Never before with other immigrants have we been forced to babysit an underclass of people who are needy and very dependant of goverment services.

Illegals don't care about laws, they could give a damn about this country, to them and their supporters if they snuck in they could stay, they live outside the law and it creates a situation determines their actions to steal from the American taxpayer. Over 1 million people come here legally every year but these poor precious illegals get a free pass.

But go ahead if it makes you feel better, demonize the taxpayer, after all we are paying the bills for them.

I could say that they did so by overturning what ARZ tried to do.


Conspiracy theory?

Democrats want to keep people poor and dependant on government. The more entitlements they dole out the more faithful the electorate is.

Why does Obama want to bypass congress and give Amnesty by executive order then? He knows Congress would kill any Amnesty bill.

Sure cities like Chicago, Detroit, St Louis and others always vote straight GOP

Did you not say some pages back that GWB had been on this same track? And did you not see how more guards are now at the boarder? Or do you like to look the other way? (to the right)

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I could say that they did so by overturning what ARZ tried to do.




Did you not say some pages back that GWB had been on this same track? And did you not see how more guards are now at the boarder? Or do you like to look the other way? (to the right)

You could have 50K guard troops at the border. If they won't stop illegals then whats the point?

[hanso]

What are they teleporting?

[Syd]

You could have 50K guard troops at the border. If they won't stop illegals then whats the point?

50k? Even if they watched the border 24/7, that's only 1 troop every 200 feet or so of the border.

[hanso]

If all they have to do is stand in place that's a cush job.

[Barnaby Jones]

My argument is not that the government is perfect, but relying on the charity of the wealthy for healthcare of the poor is pretty insane. More-so, the enourmous risk of allowing religious organizations to be in charge of this endeavor. Imagine people being forced to change their faith in order to get an operation, or medicine?

I guess you stumped WF!

[StanUpshaw]

No one seriously contends that a free-will system of international welfare would magically solve all the world's ills; simply that having the wealth you earned taken from you by force and given to someone else is unjust. That's the entirety of the philosophical argument.

In terms of practical argument, it's hard to imagine an outcome worse than what the current bureaucratic aid model has yielded. People like Zambian economist Dambisa Moyo claim that the governmental aid culture has only helped to cripple Africa both economically and politically. She points to the efforts of NGOs and especially economically-oriented programs like the microfinance movement as showing at least some progress.

[hanso]

There is no taking away. It is resetting the system from party change. That kind of talk is right wing rhetoric.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I guess you stumped WF!

Mother Theresa made sure all the people taken care of in Calcutta werent Hindus

[TjM]

Mother Theresa made sure all the people taken care of in Calcutta werent Hindus

Also made sure they weren't comfortable or treated like a human

[Dude!]

Mother Theresa made sure all the people taken care of in Calcutta werent Hindus Also made sure they weren't comfortable or treated like a human

typical Albanian behavior

[WRESTLINGFAN]

KA CHING!!!!!

These people sucking the life out of LA even more. Pump out more kids, leech off the taxpayer.


http://articles.latimes.com/2010/sep/05/local/la-me-illegal-welfare-20100906

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Dont bring a knife to a gunfight. You will lose.

The son of a bitch was drunk wielding a knife and was told in English and Espanol to drop the weapon. I have no sympathy at all

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/09/08/2010-09-08_los_angeles_protestors_egg_lapd_station_after_p olice_shooting_death_of_immigrant.html

Meanwhile these animals protest the cops shooting him. Im sure many of them are illegal too. They are acting like a bunch of savages throwing eggs and debris and wanting to turn where they live into the same sewers they crawled out of

[A.J.]

Dont bring a knife to a gunfight. You will lose


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/09/08/2010-09-08_los_angeles_protestors_egg_lapd_station_after_p olice_shooting_death_of_immigrant.html

"Killing a drunk isn’t right," said the victim’s cousin, Juan Jaminez.

I say the same thing every time I leave my bar.

[epo]

The DREAM Act passed the House.

The brown people are going to win.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

If there's a god I'm praying that this piece of shit bill dies in the Senate a

[WRESTLINGFAN]

If this nightmare is passed, might as well not have any border because every third worlder will just ram thru and our population will swell to half a billion in no time. At a time where 15 million Americans are out of work, these cocksuckers like Durbin Gutierrez and others want to reward these illegals. Ameicans have to pay out od state tuition but some foreigner gets to pay in state. These fuckers in congress need to be tarred and feathered.

[Jujubees2]

If there's a god I'm praying that this piece of shit bill dies in the Senate a

There's no God...

[epo]

If this nightmare is passed, might as well not have any border because every third worlder will just ram thru and our population will swell to half a billion in no time. At a time where 15 million Americans are out of work, these cocksuckers like Durbin Gutierrez and others want to reward these illegals. Ameicans have to pay out od state tuition but some foreigner gets to pay in state. These fuckers in congress need to be tarred and feathered.

You'll love this bill the most.

[Snacks]

Can someone explain the bill and what it does and for who? I havent read this whole thread or anything about that bill!

[epo]

Can someone explain the bill and what it does and for who? I havent read this whole thread or anything about that bill!

I'm going to use a couple of sources to explain the Development, Relief and Education for Alien Minors Act

From Wikipedia: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DREAM_Act)

This bill would provide certain illegal and deportable alien students who graduate from US high schools, who are of good moral character, arrived in the U.S. illegally as minors, and have been in the country continuously and illegally for at least five years prior to the bill's enactment, the opportunity to earn conditional permanent residency if they complete two years in the military or two years at a four year institution of higher learning. The students would obtain temporary residency for a six year period.

Within the six year period, a qualified student must have "acquired a degree from an institution of higher education in the United States or [have] completed at least 2 years, in good standing, in a program for a bachelor's degree or higher degree in the United States," or have "served in the uniformed services for at least 2 years and, if discharged, [have] received an honorable discharge."

Military enlistment contracts require an eight year commitment, with active duty commitments typically between four and six years, but as low as two years. "Any alien whose permanent resident status is terminated [according to the terms of the Act] shall return to the immigration status the alien had immediately prior to receiving conditional permanent resident status under this Act."

A benefits analysis from The Hill: (http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/politics/132627-the-dream-act-a-watershed-vote-latinos-will-not-forget)
A recent study showed that students covered under the DREAM Act will contribute at least one trillion dollars to the American economy over the course of their lifetimes. Moreover, according to the Congressional Budget Office, enacting the DREAM Act would reduce the deficit by $1.4 billion dollars over ten years. Our military supports the DREAM Act and it is part of the Department of Defense's 2010–2012 Strategic Plan to assist the military in its recruiting efforts. From an educational, economic competitiveness, and troop readiness perspective, support for the DREAM Act is a no-brainer. The intangible benefits of investing in these students’ futures, however, are immeasurable. These students want, and will have, the chance to go on to college or serve in the military to continue giving back to the only country they have ever called home.

So in simple terms: If you are a little kid and you aren't born here, but your parents come here "illegally", you can become a citizen. You need to be a law-abiding citizen AND either graduate from college/or serve honorably in our military. By doing so, you save the government money, help meet our military recruiting goals and become an asset to society.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Can someone explain the bill and what it does and for who? I havent read this whole thread or anything about that bill!

Backdoor Amnesty which will allow chain migration and encourage more illegal immigration. Simpson Mazzoli opened up the flood gates in 86 and this waste of money will do the same

http://www.theusdvista.com/opinion-editorial/senate-s-dream-act-a-total-nightmare-for-taxpayers-1.1816862

[underdog]

Can someone explain the bill and what it does and for who? I havent read this whole thread or anything about that bill!

I'm going to use a couple of sources to explain the Development, Relief and Education for Alien Minors Act

From Wikipedia: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DREAM_Act)



A benefits analysis from The Hill: (http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/politics/132627-the-dream-act-a-watershed-vote-latinos-will-not-forget)


So in simple terms: If you are a little kid and you aren't born here, but your parents come here "illegally", you can become a citizen. You need to be a law-abiding citizen AND either graduate from college/or serve honorably in our military. By doing so, you save the government money, help meet our military recruiting goals and become an asset to society.

Backdoor Amnesty which will allow chain migration and encourage more illegal immigration. Simpson Mazzoli opened up the flood gates in 86 and this waste of money will do the same

http://www.theusdvista.com/opinion-editorial/senate-s-dream-act-a-total-nightmare-for-taxpayers-1.1816862

snacks, I'm assuming it's somewhere in the middle of these two responses.

[weekapaugjz]

snacks, I'm assuming it's somewhere in the middle of these two responses.

i'd lean more towards epo, we all know he's out there, but he's not retarded.

[Snacks]

Backdoor Amnesty which will allow chain migration and encourage more illegal immigration. Simpson Mazzoli opened up the flood gates in 86 and this waste of money will do the same

http://www.theusdvista.com/opinion-editorial/senate-s-dream-act-a-total-nightmare-for-taxpayers-1.1816862

Against! Amnesty doesnt work! It was done by Reagan in the 80s and look what happened more illegals came over.

I wonder what the total number of illegals would be if you added the ones who were given Amnesty 25 years ago and the current ones who are trying to get it now? It would have to be around 30 million or more?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Fuck the Taxpayers according to that piece of garbage Luis Guiterrez

He sees things more simply. “I have only one loyalty,” he says, “and that’s to the immigrant community.”


He doesn't give a shit about the constitution or the taxpayers.

[epo]

Fuck the Taxpayers according to that piece of garbage Luis Guiterrez

He sees things more simply. “I have only one loyalty,” he says, “and that’s to the immigrant community.”


He doesn't give a shit about the constitution or the taxpayers.

Neither do you.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Neither do you.

What the fuck is that supposed to mean? Educate yourself and read article 4 section 4 of the constitution



You are ok with tens of millions of illegals roaming and ravaging the country but say nothing about Americans being felt up at airports

I hope Juan McCain is the Senator which kills this bill for good


http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/politics/article/House-passes-DREAM-ACT-but-bill-looks-DOA-in-869723.php

[epo]

What the fuck is that supposed to mean? Educate yourself and read article 4 section 4 of the constitution

I hope Juan McCain is the Senator which kills this bill for good


http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/politics/article/House-passes-DREAM-ACT-but-bill-looks-DOA-in-869723.php

Lets face it, a bill which gives young people who have come here via their parents a path to citizenship, yet makes them sacrifice to better their nation (which they grew up and know as their own) isn't good enough for you.

On this issue, you are completely irrational and full of hate. I pity people like you.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Lets face it, a bill which gives young people who have come here via their parents a path to citizenship, yet makes them sacrifice to better their nation (which they grew up and know as their own) isn't good enough for you.

On this issue, you are completely irrational and full of hate. I pity people like you.

When it fucks over American citizens especially taxpayers at a huge cost you have no defense.

If the bill was only designated for illegal children then, I could find some comprimise. but when it allows them to bring in their extended family and allows them to get government assistance on my fucking dime then I take issue with that.

I'd go one step further. I would require the children to turn in their parents to ICE for deportation. Lets see how much they want citizenship

[epo]

When it fucks over American citizens at a huge cost you have no defense.

If the bill was only designated for illegal children then, I could find some comprimise. but when it allows them to bring in their extended family and allows them to get government assistance on my fucking dime then I take issue with that.

I'd go one step further. I would require the children to turn in their parents to ICE for deportation. Lets see how much they want citizenship


ICE agents will be too busy to enforce the law if this is passed instead they will be processing applications for Amnesty.

The text of the legislation is available...try reading it.

Maybe you should move beyond talking points and become an educated human being for a change.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The text of the legislation is available...try reading it.

Maybe you should move beyond talking points and become an educated human being for a change.

I have read it and its full of loopholes and allows chain migration to happen. Also it is NOT limited to children. it gives waivers to people who have committed crimes such as drunk driving indecent exposure and other crimes so quit making ignorant remarks like that without getting your facts straight.

[epo]

I have read it and its full of loopholes and allows chain migration to happen. Also it is NOT limited to children. it gives waivers to people who have committed crimes such as drunk driving indecent exposure and other crimes so quit making ignorant remarks like that without getting your facts straight.

I've read it and you are making shit up.

You may be mentally unstable.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I've read it and you are making shit up.

You may be mentally unstable.

You are mentally unstable for supporting mass amnesty, No surprise since Milwaukee is bursting at the seams with them.

[epo]

You are mentally unstable for supporting mass amnesty, No surprise since Milwaukee is bursting at the seams with them.

Who is "them"?

Racist.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Who is "them"?

Racist.

Im sorry. I should have called them "Gods Children" like Juan McCain said


You progressives love to throw that word around. Hell I will tell my Peruvian Girlfriend (here legally and is against the illegals being here) about your cries of racism towards me.

[Barnaby Jones]

Im sorry. I should have called them "Gods Children" like Juan McCain said


You progressives love to throw that word around. Hell I will tell my Peruvian Girlfriend (here legally and is against the illegals being here) about your cries of racism towards me.

Nobody believes this at all!!!

[underdog]

i'd lean more towards epo, we all know he's out there, but he's not retarded.

I agree.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

More like the SCHEME act.

This is what it comes down to.


Give billions to kids whose parents snuck into the country and are committing crimes every day

And, to the rest of natural born kids Drop dead...- get a loan, suckers . . .

[Crispy123]

I do not wish to quarrel with any man or nation. I do not wish to split hairs, to make fine distinctions, or set myself up as better than my neighbors. I seek rather, I may say, even an excuse for conforming to the laws of the land. I am but too ready to conform to them. Indeed, I have reason to suspect myself on this head; and each year, as the tax-gatherer comes round, I find myself disposed to review the acts and position of the general and State governments, and the spirit of the people to discover a pretext for conformity.

"We must affect our country as our parents,
And if at any time we alienate
Out of love or industry from doing it honor,
We must respect effects and teach the soul
Matter of conscience and religion,
And not desire of rule or benefit."

I believe that the State will soon be able to take all my work of this sort out of my hands, and then I shall be no better patriot than my fellow-countrymen. Seen from a lower point of view, the Constitution, with all its faults, is very good; the law and the courts are very respectable; even this State and this American government are, in many respects, very admirable, and rare things, to be thankful for, such as a great many have described them; seen from a higher still, and the highest, who shall say what they are, or that they are worth looking at or thinking of at all?

However, the government does not concern me much, and I shall bestow the fewest possible thoughts on it. It is not many moments that I live under a government, even in this world. If a man is thought-free, fancy-free, imagination-free, that which is not never for a long time appearing to be to him, unwise rulers or reformers cannot fatally interrupt him.

Genius

[WRESTLINGFAN]

No Link yet but this is from CNN.COM

- Senate Democrats cancel vote on DREAM Act, meaning the immigration measure is likely dead for the year.



BROWNS LOSE!!!!!!!!

[Jujubees2]

No Link yet but this is from CNN.COM

- Senate Democrats cancel vote on DREAM Act, meaning the immigration measure is likely dead for the year.



BROWNS LOSE!!!!!!!!

No need to get nasty WF

http://www.clevelandbrownsticketsnfl.com/images/stadium.jpg

[epo]

More like the SCHEME act.

This is what it comes down to.


Give billions to kids whose parents snuck into the country and are committing crimes every day

And, to the rest of natural born kids Drop dead...- get a loan, suckers . . .

And you made that up too.

The legislation actually makes kids going through this process for government subsidies for education. In other words, it makes them earn it.

[epo]

No Link yet but this is from CNN.COM

- Senate Democrats cancel vote on DREAM Act, meaning the immigration measure is likely dead for the year.

BROWNS LOSE!!!!!!!!

This is where I have a major tactical problem with Harry Reid as majority leader.

He should put it to a vote and force Republicans to go on record as blocking a vote on the legislation. Democrats need that record to backup the correct claim that the GOP are doing nothing other than obstructing progress.

[Barnaby Jones]

No Link yet but this is from CNN.COM

- Senate Democrats cancel vote on DREAM Act, meaning the immigration measure is likely dead for the year.



BROWNS LOSE!!!!!!!!

Hey everyone!!!! Remember how WF always cries about how this isn't about race and he "hates all illegals?!?!" He can't even remember his own gimmick!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Hey everyone!!!! Remember how WF always cries about how this isn't about race and he "hates all illegals?!?!" He can't even remember his own gimmick!!!

Go back and read where EPO said it was a victory for the Brown people when the House passed it last night.

[Willmore]

Go back and read where EPO said it was a victory for the Brown people when the House passed it last night.
OK, Brown people are people with the last or first name Brown, like this guy:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1e/Sbrownofficial.jpg



What you're looking for is brown people - a racial slur for people with that skin complexion, generically, people from Latin America, Iberia, Southern Europe, North Africa, Middle East, etc.

[Barnaby Jones]

Go back and read where EPO said it was a victory for the Brown people when the House passed it last night.

Sure, sure! Did you spend more time making up this excuse or your fake Peruvian girlfriend?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Sure, sure! Did you spend more time making up this excuse or your fake Peruvian girlfriend?

Go back to your young Guatemalan boyfriend

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Suck it Durbin, Gutierrez et al.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/12/09/dream.act/index.html?hpt=T2

[Snacks]

I think the reason it doesnt go to a vote is it will help the Republicans for voting it down. Libs and conservatives voters alike for the most part are all tired of the illegal immigration situation. Im extremely liberal on most everything except this. Whats this country became a nation of laws and created legal and illegal immigration people of all nationalities need to come here the right way. I also think once you come here its on you to create the better life not our govt. You should do what you need to do to become legal, to get educated and most of all learn English. This current wave of immigrants seem to not learn the language at all. It our faults for making everything in multiple languages. If we didnt have all of our literature written in 2 languages and press 2 for Spanish maybe people would try to learn the language. There have been many studies that have shown immigrants that learn the language assimilate better and have a better chance to earn a living.

I just cant be a liberal when it comes to this! Maybe its because my family came here the right way from Italy and worked in sweat shops with no help from anyone but themselves and their family/friends. They built a life on their own. Todays immigrants want and get way too much especially ones that broke the laws coming here illegally.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I think the reason it doesnt go to a vote is it will help the Republicans for voting it down. Libs and conservatives voters alike for the most part are all tired of the illegal immigration situation. Im extremely liberal on most everything except this. Whats this country became a nation of laws and created legal and illegal immigration people of all nationalities need to come here the right way. I also think once you come here its on you to create the better life not our govt. You should do what you need to do to become legal, to get educated and most of all learn English. This current wave of immigrants seem to not learn the language at all. It our faults for making everything in multiple languages. If we didnt have all of our literature written in 2 languages and press 2 for Spanish maybe people would try to learn the language. There have been many studies that have shown immigrants that learn the language assimilate better and have a better chance to earn a living.

I just cant be a liberal when it comes to this! Maybe its because my family came here the right way from Italy and worked in sweat shops with no help from anyone but themselves and their family/friends. They built a life on their own. Todays immigrants want and get way too much especially ones that broke the laws coming here illegally.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::c lap:

Bravo Sir!!!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Hey Gutierrez Bring it on !!!!

You want your Amigos rounded up and deported?, keep running your mouth like this they start destroying property its all on you and the so called downtrodden you cried for will be back in the slums of Central and South America


http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-12-01/luis-gutirrez-and-coming-latino-revolt

[Barnaby Jones]

Go back to your young Guatemalan boyfriend

Not only racist, but thinks homosexuality is some kind of an insult! Keep living in that ugly fantasy land, pal!!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Not only racist, but thinks homosexuality is some kind of an insult! Keep living in that ugly fantasy land, pal!!!!

Can you friggin progressives come up with anything besides racist? Its old and tired. Just like when the Religious nuts think God is a solution to everything.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Reid knows that a huge majority of the people do not want this. We have tried amnesty numerous times and it causes more people to flood the border and overstay their visa.

[epo]

I think the reason it doesnt go to a vote is it will help the Republicans for voting it down. Libs and conservatives voters alike for the most part are all tired of the illegal immigration situation. Im extremely liberal on most everything except this. Whats this country became a nation of laws and created legal and illegal immigration people of all nationalities need to come here the right way. I also think once you come here its on you to create the better life not our govt. You should do what you need to do to become legal, to get educated and most of all learn English. This current wave of immigrants seem to not learn the language at all. It our faults for making everything in multiple languages. If we didnt have all of our literature written in 2 languages and press 2 for Spanish maybe people would try to learn the language. There have been many studies that have shown immigrants that learn the language assimilate better and have a better chance to earn a living.

I just cant be a liberal when it comes to this! Maybe its because my family came here the right way from Italy and worked in sweat shops with no help from anyone but themselves and their family/friends. They built a life on their own. Todays immigrants want and get way too much especially ones that broke the laws coming here illegally.

I call bullshit on your liberalism. I don't know a single liberal who would refer to himself as the new conservative slur "Lib".

[StanUpshaw]

I call bullshit on your liberalism. I don't know a single liberal who would refer to himself as the new conservative slur "Lib".

I believe your liberalism! Only a liberal would so relish being victimized by those mean conservatives and their hateful "slurs."

[epo]

I believe your liberalism! Only a liberal would so relish being victimized by those mean conservatives and their hateful "slurs."

Ha! I'm hardly victimized by conservatives. I am however very keen on rhetoric and tire of the stupid "slurs" the right uses to prove how smart they are.

I have no problem with a debate in the public forum as long as its a grown-up debate.

[Barnaby Jones]

Can you friggin progressives come up with anything besides racist? Its old and tired. Just like when the Religious nuts think God is a solution to everything.

I mixed it up and didn't call you just a racist! But please, keep crying about being called a racist and then turn around next week and make some more horrible jokes and insults about Mexicans, even though you "hate all illegals!!!"

[Syd]

I just cant be a liberal when it comes to this! Maybe its because my family came here the right way from Italy and worked in sweat shops with no help from anyone but themselves and their family/friends. They built a life on their own. Todays immigrants want and get way too much especially ones that broke the laws coming here illegally.

Pretty much guarantee your family was at best bilingual by only the second generation, were considered outcasts and un-American for being Catholic and worked jobs that were considered to be stolen from white people. Plus, all your family did was just show up. There really weren't any immigration laws till very recently to enable better controls over immigrant wages by capital.

[epo]

Reid knows that a huge majority of the people do not want this. We have tried amnesty numerous times and it causes more people to flood the border and overstay their visa.

Could you be more wrong?

The GOP has flat out said that nothing will pass until the tax cuts are passed. So I wouldn't be shocked if the DREAM Act is eventually passed.

[Snacks]

I call bullshit on your liberalism. I don't know a single liberal who would refer to himself as the new conservative slur "Lib".

actually I call myself progressive, liberal and whatever I want to call myself. I dont give 2 shits what you think. What I do care about is equality for all. That sometimes means going against my own party and doing what is right for the country not just a select few. Thats the current problem with the current dems. They seem to only fight for a small group of people in their own party when the majority of the people in their party dont fit in that group. Minorities arent the only ones have a tough time. Yet over the last few years the nuts in my party have stopped fighting for all and are only trying to give and help illegals. Im pissed at Obama because he has backed down to the Repubs on every issue. The health care situation sucks. He didnt go far enough. He should have never moved away from single payer. Instead he backed down when didnt need to because we had the power to push it through.

Sorry if I cant side with an issue that hurts all American by giving Amnesty to people who continue to come here illegally. We continue to reward illegal behavior yet you want me to side with my party blindly on ever issue? Sorry that makes someone a sheep with no ideas of their own. Some people have balls and some are pussies that will agree rather then fight!

[Barnaby Jones]

Stop, you're giving WF a boner, what with all of your silly generalizations and absurd victimization complex!!!

[Snacks]

Pretty much guarantee your family was at best bilingual by only the second generation, were considered outcasts and un-American for being Catholic and worked jobs that were considered to be stolen from white people. Plus, all your family did was just show up. There really weren't any immigration laws till very recently to enable better controls over immigrant wages by capital.

I would bet your wrong. My father who was the 1st generation didnt speak English til he was 5. Then he never spoke Italian again and his parents, both of them only spoke Italian on the (bat phone which was the phone to Italy only) Other then that my grandparents both born in Italy learned and spoke Italian and English. They only spoke English at work never spoke Italian. Im actually 2nd generation and we were never taught Italian because my father thought it would hurt us to learn it first rather then English first. My great grandparents came over with my grandparents and even they spoke Italian. They never has press 2 for Italian or anything other then an Italian newspaper written in their language. They bought both papers. The Italian one and the NY/NJ papers!

I wish I spoke Italian and think learning a 2nd language is great but you need to learn the language the majority of the country speaks first in order to communicate and make a living. I really cant understand how anyone could be against people assimilating to the country and learning English? Thats what you do. You become part of your community while also sharing your culture. Thats what they did in the past. Now the current immigrant only wants to live their old culture without embracing the one that they now live it.

[Barnaby Jones]

Oh boy, that one story sure proves everything!!! Oh, right, except that most adult immigrants to this country didn't learn much beyond a rudimentary grasp of english! It was their kids that learned and adapted much more than most of the parents! Why do you think so many immigrants ended up in enclaves surrounded by others like them?!?

And bringing up the immigration processes from anytime before the early 20th Century in comparison to today never fails to be incredibly stupid!!! Generally unless you were visibly ill you were in!!!

[Snacks]

Could you be more wrong?

The GOP has flat out said that nothing will pass until the tax cuts are passed. So I wouldn't be shocked if the DREAM Act is eventually passed.

How did Amnesty work out in the 80s? Wasnt that supposed to be a 1 time thing. Help out who was here and then everyone who came here illegally would be arrested and deported? Why is it ok that more and more people come here illegally?

Try going into Mexico and see what happens if he try to work or live there illegally! Have fun in jail. I was thinking of getting citizenship in Italy because Im allowed to as Im 2nd generation American. Anyway I was looking into it and the laws of Italy and Europe. You are supposed to carry your passport while there. If you dont have it on you, you can get arrested and deported. If you are there working illegally you will get arrested, deported and NEVER allowed to enter the country again. Why cant we enforce our laws? Why is it so wrong to try to enforce the laws and tell people come here the right way?

[Snacks]

Oh boy, that one story sure proves everything!!! Oh, right, except that most adult immigrants to this country didn't learn much beyond a rudimentary grasp of english! It was their kids that learned and adapted much more than most of the parents! Why do you think so many immigrants ended up in enclaves surrounded by others like them?!?

And bringing up the immigration processes from anytime before the early 20th Century in comparison to today never fails to be incredibly stupid!!! Generally unless you were visibly ill you were in!!!

Ok at least they tried. One of my best friends girl friend is from Columbia. They have been here 12 years. Her parents dont speak a word of English and are now barely 45? So they been here since they were 33. They struggle everyday because her father cant get a job because he cant speak the language. Her mother speaks even less then the father and the 26 year old daughter is understandable but she sometimes has to repeat herself 2, 3 times before even her boyfriend understand what shes saying

[WRESTLINGFAN]

How did Amnesty work out in the 80s? Wasnt that supposed to be a 1 time thing. Help out who was here and then everyone who came here illegally would be arrested and deported? Why is it ok that more and more people come here illegally?

Try going into Mexico and see what happens if he try to work or live there illegally! Have fun in jail. I was thinking of getting citizenship in Italy because Im allowed to as Im 2nd generation American. Anyway I was looking into it and the laws of Italy and Europe. You are supposed to carry your passport while there. If you dont have it on you, you can get arrested and deported. If you are there working illegally you will get arrested, deported and NEVER allowed to enter the country again. Why cant we enforce our laws? Why is it so wrong to try to enforce the laws and tell people come here the right way?

Simpson Mazzoli signed by Reagan was supposed to be a 1 time thing. Reagan agreed to sign this if congress lived up to its end of the deal. Well we all know how that turned out.

Felipe Calderon is the biggest hypocrite around. He wants us to babysit his citizens, provide them with taxfunded entitlements and etc while they send billions back to Mexico.

And on border security. They want to keep out those pesky Guatemalans. As they have their border enforced.

http://www.chandlerswatch.com/2010/09/21/mexico-builds-a-fence-on-their-own-southern-border/

[WRESTLINGFAN]

actually I call myself progressive, liberal and whatever I want to call myself. I dont give 2 shits what you think. What I do care about is equality for all. That sometimes means going against my own party and doing what is right for the country not just a select few. Thats the current problem with the current dems. They seem to only fight for a small group of people in their own party when the majority of the people in their party dont fit in that group. Minorities arent the only ones have a tough time. Yet over the last few years the nuts in my party have stopped fighting for all and are only trying to give and help illegals. Im pissed at Obama because he has backed down to the Repubs on every issue. The health care situation sucks. He didnt go far enough. He should have never moved away from single payer. Instead he backed down when didnt need to because we had the power to push it through.

Sorry if I cant side with an issue that hurts all American by giving Amnesty to people who continue to come here illegally. We continue to reward illegal behavior yet you want me to side with my party blindly on ever issue? Sorry that makes someone a sheep with no ideas of their own. Some people have balls and some are pussies that will agree rather then fight!

Its because people who vote along strict party lines all the time think that they have to agree with everything 100% all the time.

I tend to lean towards the right however, I disagree with a lot of ideas with the GOP and the NEO Cons like the Patriot act, staying in Afghanistan, I want the military budget cut and repealing DADT really doesnt bother me.

Many progressives, democrats, liberals whatever you want to call them think that all minorities have to be democrats and the ones that are not are considered sellouts. I happen to think that not every black person follows the word of Sharpton Jackson et al. Also there are a lot of hispanics who believe that illegal immigration is a problem

[Barnaby Jones]

WF is terrified of Mexicans because their wrestling kicks the ass of the lame American stuff he strokes over!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

WF is terrified of Mexicans because their wrestling kicks the ass of the lame American stuff he strokes over!!!

Vive los Luchadores!!!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Mexico a poor country? Not so fast. The open borders lobby loves to throw out that line all the time. This is from a few years ago, however the main thing here... MEXICO ISNT HAITI


http://www.limitstogrowth.org/WEB-text/mexicoisrich.html

[Barnaby Jones]

Nice source!!!

[weekapaugjz]

i'm going to mexico in two days. i can't wait to meet the people WF hates so vehemently.

[Jujubees2]

i'm going to mexico in two days. i can't wait to meet the people WF hates so vehemently.

Bring a couple back with you...

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Bring a couple back with you...

Only if they look like her

http://cinemascrutiny.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/salma_hayek_30.jpg

[Justice4all]

Only if they look like her

http://cinemascrutiny.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/salma_hayek_30.jpg

Oh yes. The best Mexican EVER!

[underdog]

Oh yes. The best Mexican EVER!

http://brandnewcool.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/kenny-powers-braids.jpg

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Beware of unlicensed illegals. If they crash their car into you, good luck sueing them.


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/10/us/10license.html?_r=2&hp



"Like Ms. Valencia, an estimated 4.5 million illegal immigrants nationwide are driving regularly, most without licenses, according to an analysis by The New York Times."

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Border agent killed by illegals.


http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-12-15-border-patrol-agent-shot_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip

[Barnaby Jones]

Sad news!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

These hack politicians still don't get it. We dont want another Amnesty bill passed. Reid is pure scum


http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/133969-harkin-dems-will-try-again-on-dream-act

[epo]

I think WrestlingFan is obsessed with immigrants driving motor vehicles.

[epo]

These hack politicians still don't get it. We dont want another Amnesty bill passed. Reid is pure scum


http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/133969-harkin-dems-will-try-again-on-dream-act

I agree, the Republicans do abuse their filibuster rights.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I think WrestlingFan is obsessed with ILLEGAL ALIENS driving motor vehicles.

Fixed

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I agree, the Republicans do abuse their filibuster rights.

They without sin shall cast the 1st stone

http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/twn_up_fls/chuckschumer.jpg




How did that last Amnesty bill turn out?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Its a start

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/50881591-76/stamps-undocumented-immigrants-income.html.csp

Now if only more states can man up and show some cajones and deny ALL benefits to illegals, these freeloaders and their anchor babies would end up self deporting. No housing vouchers, education, healthcare SCHIP etc. nada. Starve them out and they will go back to their countries

[Jujubees2]

Its a start

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/50881591-76/stamps-undocumented-immigrants-income.html.csp

Now if only more states can man up and show some cajones and deny ALL benefits to illegals, these freeloaders and their anchor babies would end up self deporting. No housing vouchers, education, healthcare SCHIP etc. nada. Starve them out and they will go back to their countries

I nominate WF for Humaritarian of the Year!

[Barnaby Jones]

Its a start

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/50881591-76/stamps-undocumented-immigrants-income.html.csp

Now if only more states can man up and show some cajones and deny ALL benefits to illegals, these freeloaders and their anchor babies would end up self deporting. No housing vouchers, education, healthcare SCHIP etc. nada. Starve them out and they will go back to their countries

I'm sorry, but you're just way out in looney tunes-ville over this!!! You seriously think illegals are only here for "handouts?" Of course not!!! They still have a much better chance of making an income much better off than most of the countries they come from!!! You're seriously deluded!!! God damn you and your 'freeloader" hatemongering bullshit!!!

[Snacks]

I'm sorry, but you're just way out in looney tunes-ville over this!!! You seriously think illegals are only here for "handouts?" Of course not!!! They still have a much better chance of making an income much better off than most of the countries they come from!!! You're seriously deluded!!! God damn you and your 'freeloader" hatemongering bullshit!!!

I agree that many come here to make a better life for themselves and make a better living. That still doesnt take away from the fact that we are waisting a lot fo money on illegals and the many illegals are getting food stamps and govt aid. Also many of the ones who do come here and bust their asses are getting somethings for free like emergency healthcare. All this cost money and if you came here illegally you dont deserve it. Especially since so many Americans who are here legally or born here cant get any help.

I really cant see how anyone can defend people who purposely break the laws and then cost tax payers money all whole doing things the wrong way! I think we should be helping our citizens with education, food, clothing, shelter when needed. But you need to be a citizen or here legally.

[Zorro]

I agree, the Republicans do abuse their filibuster rights.

Seriously, EPO?

I love your posts, but when the sides were reversed the left loved the filibuster.

As for Amnesty...anyone who thinks we're going to load people into train cars send them home is a fool. Like many of our problems this one is not going away and to paraphrase Hillary...it's time for the Congress to "man-up" and solve the problem.


I am so tired of the demagoguery on the left and right when it comes to immigration. Solve the problem it's not that hard. We'll all have to swallow a bit of bitterness, but maintaining the status quo is not fair to the citizens or the immigrants both legal and illegal.

We're supposed to be an "exceptional" society. We can do better.

[Snacks]

Seriously, EPO?

I love your posts, but when the sides were reversed the left loved the filibuster.

As for Amnesty...anyone who thinks we're going to load people into train cars send them home is a fool. Like many of our problems this one is not going away and to paraphrase Hillary...it's time for the Congress to "man-up" and solve the problem.


I am so tired of the demagoguery on the left and right when it comes to immigration. Solve the problem it's not that hard. We'll all have to swallow a bit of bitterness, but maintaining the status quo is not fair to the citizens or the immigrants both legal and illegal.

We're supposed to be an "exceptional" society. We can do better.

if its so easy how do you fix it? I agree we arent going to ship everyone back in one swoop. But if we make it harder to come into the country illegally then the one we do find we can deport and not make it so easy to get back here. We cant just let everyone that is here illegally become citizens. We did amnesty in the 80s and said never again and 25 years later we will have to do it again? If we dont fix whats broke they will have to do it again in 25 more years. This is a vicious cycle and its not fair to all the Americans who are struggling!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I'm sorry, but you're just way out in looney tunes-ville over this!!! You seriously think illegals are only here for "handouts?" Of course not!!! They still have a much better chance of making an income much better off than most of the countries they come from!!! You're seriously deluded!!! God damn you and your 'freeloader" hatemongering bullshit!!!

Of course they are here for our over generous entitlement system. These illegals are lottery winners, they know that they can keep pumping out kids and get more money.

It amazes me how you progressives want to reward these people with other peoples money. Why dont you open up your wallet and start giving to them

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I nominate WF for Humaritarian of the Year!

I am already a defacto humanatarian by having my taxes being redistributed to them

[WRESTLINGFAN]

if its so easy how do you fix it? I agree we arent going to ship everyone back in one swoop. But if we make it harder to come into the country illegally then the one we do find we can deport and not make it so easy to get back here. We cant just let everyone that is here illegally become citizens. We did amnesty in the 80s and said never again and 25 years later we will have to do it again? If we dont fix whats broke they will have to do it again in 25 more years. This is a vicious cycle and its not fair to all the Americans who are struggling!

Mass deportations I agree would never happen, but taking away the incentives for them and making life so difficult that they will see its not worth the risk. Examples could be if an illegal gets a DWI, deport him there have been numerous stories of illegals with multiple DWI's still in this country.


The 1986 Amnesty bill was a disaster. 3 million illegals turned into 20 million.

[Zorro]

Of course they are here for our over generous entitlement system. These illegals are lottery winners, they know that they can keep pumping out kids and get more money.

It amazes me how you progressives want to reward these people with other peoples money. Why dont you open up your wallet and start giving to them

I would hardly call someone that risked life and limb to get here lottery winner. The real lottery winner is you for being born here. Lucky accident ot brith.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I would hardly call someone that risked life and limb to get here lottery winner. The real lottery winner is you for being born here. Lucky accident ot brith.

Getting a 900% raise sounds like a lottery winner for me. Having multiple children and not paying a dime for healthcare , education, food etc is also signs of winning

[Barnaby Jones]

I agree that many come here to make a better life for themselves and make a better living. That still doesnt take away from the fact that we are waisting a lot fo money on illegals and the many illegals are getting food stamps and govt aid. Also many of the ones who do come here and bust their asses are getting somethings for free like emergency healthcare. All this cost money and if you came here illegally you dont deserve it. Especially since so many Americans who are here legally or born here cant get any help.

I really cant see how anyone can defend people who purposely break the laws and then cost tax payers money all whole doing things the wrong way! I think we should be helping our citizens with education, food, clothing, shelter when needed. But you need to be a citizen or here legally.

You're missing the point!!! I'm all for immigration reform, but WF's approach is beyond moronic!! He genuinely thinks all or most illegals are here to be "freeloaders" and to just take advantage of welfare system and the like when the reality is that they're here because the United States generally offers better opportunities for work and a better standard of living compared to most of the countries they're coming from!!! Stripping them of "entitlements" would not stop most of them from coming here or make them leave...WF is completely off the deep end thinking that!!!

Again, he ignores the most effective ways to actually curtail illegal immigration in the future is to overhaul the immigration process and actually make it EASIER and QUICKER to come here legally (something that terrifies WF) and to crack down hard on business and property owners that exploit illegals since their willingness to hire and rent to illegals are the by far the main reasons that people are willing to come here illegally!!! But WF always dismisses this as minor things to be done, if he acknowledges them at all, because his focus is on punishing poor Hispanics as much as possible and not actually addressing the problem in the long run!!! He always cries about how amnesty is just a short term response (which it is), but then deludes himself into thinking his half assed, spiteful approaches ("starving out illegals," indefinitely stationing the military along all of our borders) aren't any less wasteful and shortsighted!!!

[Barnaby Jones]

Getting a 900% raise sounds like a lottery winner for me. Having multiple children and not paying a dime for healthcare , education, food etc is also signs of winning

You're terrified of the projections of how many illegals actually pay taxes, aren't you? Hee-hee!!! Keep acting like the issue of illegals is nothing but a drain economically, chump!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You're terrified of the projections of how many illegals actually pay taxes, aren't you? Hee-hee!!! Keep acting like the issue of illegals is nothing but a drain economically, chump!!!

Gee you really don't get it. Illegals might pay sales tax and some might file a return, However when they get a refund in the amount larger than their tax bill they might pay taxes, but they are not taxpayers. When they consume more in sociual services than they contribute they are a drain on our economy...Simple math you clod.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You're missing the point!!! I'm all for immigration reform, but WF's approach is beyond moronic!! He genuinely thinks all or most illegals are here to be "freeloaders" and to just take advantage of welfare system and the like when the reality is that they're here because the United States generally offers better opportunities for work and a better standard of living compared to most of the countries they're coming from!!! Stripping them of "entitlements" would not stop most of them from coming here or make them leave...WF is completely off the deep end thinking that!!!

Again, he ignores the most effective ways to actually curtail illegal immigration in the future is to overhaul the immigration process and actually make it EASIER and QUICKER to come here legally (something that terrifies WF) and to crack down hard on business and property owners that exploit illegals since their willingness to hire and rent to illegals are the by far the main reasons that people are willing to come here illegally!!! But WF always dismisses this as minor things to be done, if he acknowledges them at all, because his focus is on punishing poor Hispanics as much as possible and not actually addressing the problem in the long run!!! He always cries about how amnesty is just a short term response (which it is), but then deludes himself into thinking his half assed, spiteful approaches ("starving out illegals," indefinitely stationing the military along all of our borders) aren't any less wasteful and shortsighted!!!

Amazing how you forget the numerous times I said to crackdown on the employers, landlords etc. They are part of thr problem. Its a supply and demand issue. The illegals are the supply and there is a demand for cheap labor. Should I explain it to you en espanol? If there are no incentives for them to come here ie. Welfare, foodstamps automatic citizenship etc. They will not come and for the ones who are already here if all forms of assistance are cut off, they will leave. Thus inhibiting people from coming here illegally.

We already allow over 1 million people here with work visas student visas etc. I also have stated numerous times before that I would accept having a guest worker program, and at the end of the season they must return to ther countries and apply again.

Your juvenile approach is that I hate Brown people when its not the case. Come here the right way like millions of other people have. We can not afford to be a soup kitchen.