Immigration Battle 2009-10 [Archive] - Page 5

WRESTLINGFAN

07-08-2010, 04:39 AM

Wow, once again you're not responding to what people are asking you! I presented a hypothetical and you didn't address it at all! You're so tied up in your rhetoric that you can't even hypothetically set all the catch phrases and buzzwords and opportunities to insult Latin Americans to consider anything else! You can't even for a second imagine wanting these people here, so I'm sure the idea of a more streamlined immigration process that makes it more appealing than sneaking into the country is horrifying to you.

So what? All of a sudden we're supposed to shut off our country to anyone who is of the lower classes? This is where again you highlight your true feelings here: you just hate these people! You don't want them here legally or illegally! Do you expect immigration reform to deny entrance to the country to people below a certain economic level? Again, just cut to the chase and say it: you don't want these people here at all!

Did you miss the part where I was willing to accept a seasonal guest worker program? Where did I say that I did not want legal immigration?

Youre just throwing assumptions that anyone opposed to illegal immigration and Amnesty hates brown people,but then again thats the forte of the progressives. Voice an opinion and assume everyone hates minorities

Why is it that Asian and East Indian immigrants are able to adapt and assimilate and learn English and become successful? Many of them come from poor countries much poorer than Mexico but they aren't coddled like the latin Americans are.

foodcourtdruide

07-08-2010, 05:42 AM

Did you miss the part where I was willing to accept a seasonal guest worker program? Where did I say that I did not want legal immigration?

Youre just throwing assumptions that anyone opposed to illegal immigration and Amnesty hates brown people,but then again thats the forte of the progressives. Voice an opinion and assume everyone hates minorities

Why is it that Asian and East Indian immigrants are able to adapt and assimilate and learn English and become successful? Many of them come from poor countries much poorer than Mexico but they aren't coddled like the latin Americans are.

You live in a fantasy world. How are latin americans coddled?!!? Statements like this make you look like a paranoid person no one should take seriously.

WRESTLINGFAN

07-08-2010, 05:59 AM

You live in a fantasy world. How are latin americans coddled?!!? Statements like this make you look like a paranoid person no one should take seriously.

Have you been to Home Depot or any major store? They have signs in spanish. Thats an incentive for them not to learn English

Whats paranoid about that?

I dont want to hear that English is a hard language to learn. Chinese, Japanese etc can learn English and their native languages uses a totally different alphabet/character system than any of the latin based Languages.

Ritalin

07-08-2010, 06:05 AM

Did you miss the part where I was willing to accept a seasonal guest worker program? Where did I say that I did not want legal immigration?

Youre just throwing assumptions that anyone opposed to illegal immigration and Amnesty hates brown people,but then again thats the forte of the progressives. Voice an opinion and assume everyone hates minorities

Why is it that Asian and East Indian immigrants are able to adapt and assimilate and learn English and become successful? Many of them come from poor countries much poorer than Mexico but they aren't coddled like the latin Americans are.

(Somewhere, underneath all that coded buzzword nonsense, WF has a point.)

foodcourtdruide

07-08-2010, 06:15 AM

Have you been to Home Depot or any major store? They have signs in spanish. Thats an incentive for them not to learn English

Whats paranoid about that?

I dont want to hear that English is a hard language to learn. Chinese, Japanese etc can learn English and their native languages uses a totally different alphabet/character system than any of the latin based Languages.

Yes, and we are the United States of Home Depot.

Home Depot deciding to make signs in spanish is to benefit their business, it is not a sign of America coddling them. Your issue is perhaps with capitalism?

foodcourtdruide

07-08-2010, 06:17 AM

Have you been to Home Depot or any major store? They have signs in spanish. Thats an incentive for them not to learn English

Whats paranoid about that?

I dont want to hear that English is a hard language to learn. Chinese, Japanese etc can learn English and their native languages uses a totally different alphabet/character system than any of the latin based Languages.

Also, you've clearly never been to a mostly Chinese neighborhood.

Who gives a fuck about this? Seriously, how does this have ANY impact on your life?

A.J.

07-08-2010, 06:19 AM

Have you been to Home Depot or any major store? They have signs in spanish. Thats an incentive for them not to learn English

Whats paranoid about that?

I dont want to hear that English is a hard language to learn. Chinese, Japanese etc can learn English and their native languages uses a totally different alphabet/character system than any of the latin based Languages.

And if you go to the West Coast and Hawaii, signs are in Japanese.

foodcourtdruide

07-08-2010, 06:23 AM

And if you go to the West Coast and Hawaii, signs are in Japanese.

And if you go to Flushing, Queens the signs are in Chinese, and if you go to Bayside, Queens the signs are in Korean.

And it has absolutely no impact on my life.

WRESTLINGFAN

07-08-2010, 06:24 AM

Also, you've clearly never been to a mostly Chinese neighborhood.

Who gives a fuck about this? Seriously, how does this have ANY impact on your life?

Because special interests like LaRaza strongarm companies all the time. Just like Sharpton and his cronies demand that minorities be on their boards.

foodcourtdruide

07-08-2010, 06:27 AM

Because special interests like LaRaza strongarm companies all the time. Just like Sharpton and his cronies demand that minorities be on their boards.

So it has nothing to do with Home Depot trying to appeal to hispanic customers? It's because LaRaza are strong arming companies to make signs in spanish?

What do you think about AJ's point about japanese signs in Hawaii? Do you think The Yakuza are involved in that?

WRESTLINGFAN

07-08-2010, 06:27 AM

And if you go to Flushing, Queens the signs are in Chinese, and if you go to Bayside, Queens the signs are in Korean.

And it has absolutely no impact on my life.

And the signs on 187th st in the Bx are in Italian, or they were at one time.

Youre missing the point. Every other nationality of immigrants for the most part learned English. People from Latin America demand that we learn Spanish and adapt to their culture.

You may think Im picking on them but look at which group is on public assistance, food stamps, section 8 housing vouchers, healthcare etc. You dont see too many people with last names like Suzuki receiving taxpayer funded entitlements

Also if you do a google news search 99% of the time when you type in illegal alien it gives you a story of A latin american illegals driving drunk, murder, raping, molesting, selling drugs.

Dude!

07-08-2010, 06:44 AM

i'd be happy to live next door
to a Chinese or Korean family
any day of the week

foodcourtdruide

07-08-2010, 06:53 AM

And the signs on 187th st in the Bx are in Italian, or they were at one time.

Youre missing the point. Every other nationality of immigrants for the most part learned English. People from Latin America demand that we learn Spanish and adapt to their culture.

You may think Im picking on them but look at which group is on public assistance, food stamps, section 8 housing vouchers, healthcare etc. You dont see too many people with last names like Suzuki receiving taxpayer funded entitlements

Also if you do a google news search 99% of the time when you type in illegal alien it gives you a story of A latin american illegals driving drunk, murder, raping, molesting, selling drugs.

How many 1st or 2nd generation hispanics do you think don't know English? In my life, I have NEVER met one. And we just gave many examples of other immigrant groups that don't immediately speak English.

And I don't know how to respond to your google searching as empirical evidence.

WRESTLINGFAN

07-08-2010, 07:05 AM

How many 1st or 2nd generation hispanics do you think don't know English? In my life, I have NEVER met one. And we just gave many examples of other immigrant groups that don't immediately speak English.

And I don't know how to respond to your google searching as empirical evidence.

Other waves of immigrants assimilated quickly and didnt need social services and be leeches to taxpayers.

If you do a search of crimes, almost all of the criminals have names like Lopez, Jimenez etc.

Hispanics have a high rate of single unwed mothers, Asians don't.

foodcourtdruide

07-08-2010, 07:15 AM

Other waves of immigrants assimilated quickly and didnt need social services and be leeches to taxpayers.

If you do a search of crimes, almost all of the criminals have names like Lopez, Jimenez etc.

Hispanics have a high rate of single unwed mothers, Asians don't.

So your problem is with hispanics in general, not illegal immigrants? I understand now. You don't have a problem with more illegal immigrants coming into this country, you just don't want more Hispanics in this country, becuase in your mind they are more violent and more prone to leech off the system.

I understand you completely now, WF. Have a nice day. I have better things to do than argue with ignorance.

WRESTLINGFAN

07-08-2010, 07:21 AM

So your problem is with hispanics in general, not illegal immigrants? I understand now. You don't have a problem with more illegal immigrants coming into this country, you just don't want more Hispanics in this country, becuase in your mind they are more violent and more prone to leech off the system.

I understand you completely now, WF. Have a nice day. I have better things to do than argue with ignorance.

youre letting your emotions get to you without looking at the facts. I have no problem with legal hispanics. My problem is with illegal aliens of all races. I presented to you with reality illegal hispanics for the most part put a huge burden on our social services. But there you go again with He hates Mexicans rants. Typical of someone who hates reality. There aren't people with last names like Chang or Park who are illegal aliens committing violent crimes.

Ok you want to go this route, Why are Cuban Immigrants less likely to be on welfare and more successful in this country than Mexicans and Central Americans. Guess what? Their 1st language is Spanish and they are from a relatively poor country. But for the most part they arent coming here and pumping out kids like an assembly line and sucking the teet of the taxpayer. But you throw stupid comments that I dont want any hispanics in this country. There is your ignorance right there!!!!! Get off your high horse already and assuming that theres a hatred towards brown people. Its tired and old

Crispy123

07-08-2010, 09:20 AM

Why is it that Asian and East Indian immigrants are able to adapt and assimilate and learn English and become successful? Many of them come from poor countries much poorer than Mexico but they aren't coddled like the latin Americans are.

It is right there in the term Latin-Americans. Its because for the last 300 or so years these people have had there ancestral lands usurped by Europeans. Why would people who's ancestors lived on a continent for thousands of years have to assimilate to the idiots coming along, taking what they want and setting up arbitrary territorial boundaries with no regard for indiginous people?

WRESTLINGFAN

07-08-2010, 09:25 AM

It is right there in the term Latin-Americans. Its because for the last 300 or so years these people have had there ancestral lands usurped by Europeans. Why would people who's ancestors lived on a continent for thousands of years have to assimilate to the idiots coming along, taking what they want and setting up arbitrary territorial boundaries with no regard for indiginous people?

So when do we have human sacrifices on top of Pyramids. Will you give up your House/Apt/Condo for an Adobe mut hut?

Lets disband the United States and our borders and toss out the constitution

They arent indigenous, they had to cross the Bering straits to get here.

Pre Columbian times if they tried to wander into another tribe/territory they would have a chest full of arrows stuck in them.

Amazing how the Indians are venerated when in fact they owned slaves and waged war just like those damn white men did

A.J.

07-08-2010, 09:26 AM

Why are Cuban Immigrants less likely to be on welfare and more successful in this country than Mexicans and Central Americans.

Inspirational statues?

http://yayayanonono.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/dyn006_original_625_352_pjpeg_20580_0e15b2c8119824 b0037e20e7e34a8eb5.jpg

Crispy123

07-08-2010, 09:41 AM

So when do we have human sacrifices on top of Pyramids. Will you give up your House/Apt/Condo for an Adobe mut hut?

Lets disband the United States and our borders and toss out the constitution

They arent indigenous, they had to cross the Bering straits to get here.

Pre Columbian times if they tried to wander into another tribe/territory they would have a chest full of arrows stuck in them.

Amazing how the Indians are venerated when in fact they owned slaves and waged war just like those damn white men did

Ok, if you are changing the subject from why Mexicans and latin Americans are different from the Japanese and Indians Im assuming you concede my point. One more point for me!!! :clap::bye::drunk:

high fly

07-08-2010, 09:41 AM

Ok you want to go this route, Why are Cuban Immigrants less likely to be on welfare and more successful in this country than Mexicans and Central Americans. Guess what? Their 1st language is Spanish and they are from a relatively poor country. But for the most part they arent coming here and pumping out kids like an assembly line and sucking the teet of the taxpayer. But you throw stupid comments that I dont want any hispanics in this country. There is your ignorance right there!!!!! Get off your high horse already and assuming that theres a hatred towards brown people. Its tired and old

All I am seeing is your ignorance.
WF, it looks as if you are displaying the trait you seek to criticize someone else for having.
What is tired and old is the illogical use of ugly stereotypes and the presumption that personal character traits are determined by nationality.

WRESTLINGFAN

07-08-2010, 09:49 AM

All I am seeing is your ignorance.
WF, it looks as if you are displaying the trait you seek to criticize someone else for having.
What is tired and old is the illogical use of ugly stereotypes and the presumption that personal character traits are determined by nationality.

What ignorance? Theres no stereotyping at all. Is Yahoo/Google news racist because they report crimes of hispanic illegal aliens because they commit more than Asians?

WRESTLINGFAN

07-08-2010, 09:50 AM

Ok, if you are changing the subject from why Mexicans and latin Americans are different from the Japanese and Indians Im assuming you concede my point. One more point for me!!! :clap::bye::drunk:

What am I conceding?

If you give up your stove and cook buffalo over an open spit then I will concede

high fly

07-08-2010, 09:57 AM

What ignorance?

That which I quoted and which you are unable to see, even though it is your own words.

high fly

07-08-2010, 09:58 AM

What am I conceding?

Crispy told you quite clearly, but somehow you are unable to comprehend....

WRESTLINGFAN

07-08-2010, 10:03 AM

Ok, if you are changing the subject from why Mexicans and latin Americans are different from the Japanese and Indians Im assuming you concede my point. One more point for me!!! :clap::bye::drunk:

I wasn't changing anything, I was saying if you want to live in Pre Columbian times, toss out all the modern comforts you have and worship a sun god

high fly

07-08-2010, 10:22 AM

If one has to strech back over 500 years and compare civilization then in order to make a point about immigration in the 21st century, you just don't have an argument worthy of consideration.
With you it is more about arguing than having a sensible discussion....

Crispy123

07-08-2010, 11:22 AM

I wasn't changing anything, I was saying if you want to live in Pre Columbian times, toss out all the modern comforts you have and worship a sun god

And Im saying that you are crying about what's fair and lawful but whitewashing this country's history. Are you on the Texas state school board?

WRESTLINGFAN

07-08-2010, 11:24 AM

And Im saying that you are crying about what's fair and lawful but whitewashing this country's history. Are you on the Texas state school board?

Yes and I want secession

Seriously though. I never said that this country was pure and did not have its faults, but what society or nation does?

Crispy123

07-08-2010, 11:32 AM

WRESTLINGFAN

07-08-2010, 11:43 AM

Yet with all its faults it is still the best place for an individual to have the opportunity to succeed and thats why immigrants want to come here.

This influx is essential to our economy and although not every immigrant is pure in there actions in getting here it would be economic suicide to kick them all out and shut our borders.

As with most everything the root of the problem is not in AZ, or CA, or TX its in DC with the legislature.

I agree with your points but we need to have a somewhat orderly process. I also stated before that we already let over 1million immigrants into this country legally anually

We should have an ordered structured guest worker program for farming, harvest season. Once the season is over they must leave and reapply for the next season

Agreed DC is the problem because they never lived up to their end of the deal when Amnesty was passed in 86

We are definitely a welcoming country, We just ask sign the guestbook

Barnaby Jones

07-08-2010, 12:00 PM

English isn't our official language, you dope! If it ends up the majority is speaking another language after time, oh well! You act like not speaking english is some horrible fate that's going to destroy this country! Do you explode into seizures of rage if you step into a Chinatown?

WRESTLINGFAN

07-08-2010, 12:06 PM

These are Teddy Roosevelts own words and he was a progressive

We should insist that if the immigrant who comes here does in good faith become an

American and assimilates himself to us he shall be treated on an exact equality with every one else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed or birth-place or origin.

But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American and nothing but an American. If he tries to keep segregated with men of his own origin and separated from the rest of America, then he isn't doing his part as an American. There can be no divided allegiance here. . . We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language, for we intend to see that the crucible turns our people out as Americans, of American nationality, and not as dwellers in a polyglot boarding-house; and we have room for but one soul loyalty, and that is loyalty to the American people.

Barnaby Jones

07-08-2010, 01:29 PM

WRESTLINGFAN

07-08-2010, 02:19 PM

Yeah, way to quote some outdated shit from over a century ago! Face fact: we don't have an official language, and there's no reason like it's the end of the world if generations from now more people in America speak something other than english. Quit being a xenophobic

Fuck it the constitution is outdated too because it was written by some dead white men. You're just some self hating douche!!!

Barnaby Jones

07-08-2010, 02:33 PM

Fuck it the constitution is outdated too because it was written by some dead white men. You're just some self hating douche!!!

What does the Constitution have to do with everyone speaking english? Nice try!

WRESTLINGFAN

07-08-2010, 03:05 PM

10 Russians peddling useless info and they get deported 20 million people mostly uneducated peasants for the most part pumping out kids not paying taxes and lowering the quality of life and this government does nothing!!!!!

epo

07-08-2010, 03:24 PM

This thread has 1039 posts. WrestlingFan has 386 of them.

WF...I think you may be a tad obsessed.

Barnaby Jones

07-08-2010, 03:31 PM

20 million people mostly uneducated peasants for the most part pumping out kids not paying taxes and lowering the quality of life and this government does nothing!!!!!

"For the most part?"

Suuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrre.

WRESTLINGFAN

07-08-2010, 05:31 PM

"For the most part?"

Suuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrre.

How many landscapers do you know who can design a building or split an Atom ? For the most part they drink like animals and fuck short fat ugly whores

Barnaby Jones

07-08-2010, 05:43 PM

There we go! There's the real WF showing himself again! Feels good, right?

WRESTLINGFAN

07-08-2010, 05:48 PM

There we go! There's the real WF showing himself again! Feels good, right?

You call this attractive? Get your fucking eyes checked. No wonder the men are drunk half the time

http://img.timeinc.net/time/daily/2009/0901/postville_0126.jpg

Hispanic women like these on the other hand Now these are fucking gorgeous

http://www.latinstylez.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/colombiangirls.jpg

Barnaby Jones

07-08-2010, 06:15 PM

The real WF has stepped forward.

brettmojo

07-08-2010, 06:16 PM

The real Anthony Cumia has stepped forward.
Shhhyah...

WRESTLINGFAN

07-08-2010, 06:22 PM

The real WF has stepped forward.

Yes!! most men think they are ugly. Would you fuck them?

Barnaby Jones

07-08-2010, 06:24 PM

He's having imaginary conversations again!

brettmojo

07-08-2010, 06:27 PM

Yes!! most men think they are ugly. Would you fuck them?
The ugly chicks of any race are ugly. Good point.

I'd take then you'd fuck these two since they're white and therefor beautiful to you...

http://www.scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Business/images/mcdonalds-fat-women.jpg

SatCam

07-08-2010, 06:38 PM

The ugly chicks of any race are ugly. Good point.

I'd take then you'd fuck these two since they're white and therefor beautiful to you...

http://www.scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Business/images/mcdonalds-fat-women.jpg

ugh these fucking ugly trailer park, mcdonalds eating, wal-mart-working bitches. i fucking hate white people. i just wish they would all go back to europe. hable the español blanco?????????

brettmojo

07-08-2010, 06:40 PM

ugh these fucking ugly trailer park, mcdonalds eating, wal-mart-working bitches. i fucking hate white people. i just wish they would all go back to europe. hable the español blanco?????????
Seriously. No wonder white males are always working hard and long hours at work, who wants to go home and fuck that?

SatCam

07-08-2010, 06:47 PM

Seriously. No wonder white males are always working hard and long hours at work, who wants to go home and fuck that?

95% of all white people look like this. They are a disgusting race, the men all hate themselves and all the kids kill themselves because they don't want to grow up to be fat white people.

SatCam

07-08-2010, 06:49 PM

$12 trillion in debt, white people? Good job pretending you have money. All those nice cars and houses will belong to the Chinese in about 10 years.

WRESTLINGFAN

07-09-2010, 03:18 AM

WRESTLINGFAN

07-09-2010, 03:20 AM

$12 trillion in debt, white people? Good job pretending you have money. All those nice cars and houses will belong to the Chinese in about 10 years.

So Obama adding on to that debt was his White side?

underdog

07-09-2010, 05:38 AM

ugly is ugly no mtter what race

Exactly, stupid.

WRESTLINGFAN

07-09-2010, 05:40 AM

Exactly, stupid.

Glad you agree DOPE!!!!

Dude!

07-09-2010, 05:47 AM

Exactly, stupid.

wow... you've become
increasingly mean
the last few months

WRESTLINGFAN

07-09-2010, 06:00 AM

wow... you've become
increasingly mean
the last few months

Maybe a family full of illegal aliens moved next door to him !!!!

underdog

07-09-2010, 06:34 AM

Maybe a family full of illegal aliens moved next door to him !!!!

I'm currently an illegal alien in Canada.

Willmore

07-09-2010, 06:54 AM

I'm currently an illegal alien in Canada.

Eh, as long as you don't touch their beavers, you're good.

underdog

07-09-2010, 08:37 AM

Eh, as long as you don't touch their beavers, you're good.

That's basically the only place you can't touch with them.

WRESTLINGFAN

07-09-2010, 02:36 PM

The DA would be a perfect Fit in Holders D.O.J.

http://www.kdvr.com/news/kdvr-elderly-man-shoots-thieves-txt,0,1105363.story?track=rss

WRESTLINGFAN

07-09-2010, 06:43 PM

20 Poorest countries in the world Mexico isn't even close.

http://247wallst.com/2010/07/06/the-twenty-poorest-nations-in-the-world/

WRESTLINGFAN

07-11-2010, 11:40 AM

The original Americans did not cross a land bridge from Asia. Europeans are the original Americans.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-3Iq-kC-lJWw/the_first_americans_part_1_kennewick_man/

brettmojo

07-11-2010, 11:55 AM

WRESTLINGFAN

07-11-2010, 11:56 AM

Nigga' please...

http://www.concerto.at/98_2/images/aninett.jpg

Syd

07-11-2010, 12:40 PM

The original Americans did not cross a land bridge from Asia. Europeans are the original Americans.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-3Iq-kC-lJWw/the_first_americans_part_1_kennewick_man/

http://paleontology.suite101.com/article.cfm/the-solutrean-hypothesis-and-prehistoric-america

http://anthropology.net/2008/03/10/my-thoughts-on-history-channels-journey-to-10000-bc/

just a bunch of rubbish pseudoscience that tries to convince people that white people did something first, even though we're all from the same ancestors and skin color doesn't really matter unless you're trying to enforce a law in Arizona or determining your draft order in the NFL

epo

07-11-2010, 02:33 PM

The original Americans did not cross a land bridge from Asia. Europeans are the original Americans.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-3Iq-kC-lJWw/the_first_americans_part_1_kennewick_man/

Racist.

WRESTLINGFAN

07-14-2010, 07:32 AM

Good for Utah. Havent these illegals sucked enough off the taxpayer?

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/49910942-76/families-stamps-undocumented-stamp.html.csp

ONE COMMENTER SAID IT BEST

"Since when did we become mexico's health care provider"?

Let the churches provide to them, thats one of their missions anyways, why should Utah taxpayers be victims to these mopes

Crispy123

07-14-2010, 07:51 AM

Good for Utah. Havent these illegals sucked enough off the taxpayer?

Im a taxpayer and I say no, I have not been sucked off enough.

WRESTLINGFAN

07-14-2010, 08:32 AM

Im a taxpayer and I say no, I have not been sucked off enough.

Sounds hot

A.J.

07-14-2010, 08:39 AM

Im a taxpayer and I say no, I have not been sucked off enough.

I haven't been sucked off -- but I've felt raped.

WRESTLINGFAN

07-14-2010, 08:43 AM

Reid really must want to end his senate career in November

http://www.8newsnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=12793540

No wonder CA is tens of billions in the red thanks to these ungrateful leeches. This is why their kids are jackpot babies, pump another one out. CHA CHING More money stolen from the taxpayers

Supervisor Michael D. Antonovich released figures from the Department of Public Social Services showing that in April 2010, $52 million in welfare benefits ($22 million CalWORKs + $30 million in Food Stamps) were issued to parents who reside in the United States illegally and collect benefits for their native-born children in Los Angeles County. This amounts to approximately 23% of all CalWORKs and Food Stamp issuances in the County.

In 2009, CalWORKs and Food Stamp issuances to illegals totaled nearly $570 million. The total costs for CalWORKs and Food Stamps for children of illegal aliens has risen steadily by an additional $1 million cost to the taxpayers each month since January 2009.

“When you add this to $540 million for public safety and nearly $500 million for healthcare, the total cost for illegal immigrants to County taxpayers far exceeds $1 billion a year – not including the hundreds of millions of dollars for education,” said Antonovich.

Syd

07-14-2010, 09:30 AM

“When you add this to $540 million for public safety and nearly $500 million for healthcare, the total cost for illegal immigrants to County taxpayers far exceeds $1 billion a year – not including the hundreds of millions of dollars for education,” said Antonovich.

Given all you see working the fields of California are people that fail the paper bag test, and the agricultural business of California is a $30+bn business, don't you think California is still getting a deal for what amounts to little more than slave labor? Think about that the next time you eat a tomato from California that makes its way out to CT yet costs only a pittance.

Illegal aliens are here to stay because it is profitable. The government is only going to grandstand about it, never actually do anything. Both parties represent the corporations, not you. Good luck getting them to get rid of campaign donations just to sate your ire.

WRESTLINGFAN

07-14-2010, 10:01 AM

Given all you see working the fields of California are people that fail the paper bag test, and the agricultural business of California is a $30+bn business, don't you think California is still getting a deal for what amounts to little more than slave labor? Think about that the next time you eat a tomato from California that makes its way out to CT yet costs only a pittance.

Illegal aliens are here to stay because it is profitable. The government is only going to grandstand about it, never actually do anything. Both parties represent the corporations, not you. Good luck getting them to get rid of campaign donations just to sate your ire.

Profitable to the corporations and a drain on the taxpayers.

Did you forget to read where I support a seasonal/guest worker program?

I agree with you BOTH parties are at fault. Cheap labor and future dependant voters

More states/municipalities are enacting their own laws making it illegal to live and work in their respective cities/towns. Once again, deny them employment, shelter and social services and they will leave.

Syd

07-14-2010, 11:28 AM

WRESTLINGFAN

07-14-2010, 12:31 PM

and that will drive up the price of goods, inevitably driving up the deficit as people spend less and buy less consumer goods. Either admit capitalism requires a massive underclass who works for little to no money or go communist.

We have always had an underclass of unskilled workers, however not a massive welfare state for people here illegally. In regards to farm work like picking lettuce an ordered influx of guest workers would keep prices down. Also Cesar Chavez organized the United Farmworkers union and prices did not go thru the roof. He was against illegal immigration because they drive down wages of unskilled workers

WRESTLINGFAN

07-14-2010, 01:08 PM

We have always had an underclass of unskilled workers, however not a massive welfare state for people here illegally. In regards to farm work like picking lettuce an ordered influx of guest workers would keep prices down. Also Cesar Chavez organized the United Farmworkers union and prices did not go thru the roof. He was against illegal immigration because they drive down wages of unskilled workers

Continuing on. Illegal aliens are very needy dependant people. We are in fact babysitting these people and their children. Our social services and entitlements are already stretched thin for US citizens who are on the public dime, but the addition of millions more will eventually collapse the system, its unsustainable.

Also it Balkanizes the country

One scholar, Seymour Martin Lipset, put it this way:

"The histories of bilingual and bicultural societies that do not assimilate are histories of turmoil, tension, and tragedy. Canada, Belgium, Malaysia, Lebanon-all face crises of national existence in which minorities press for autonomy, if not independence. Pakistan and Cyprus have divided. Nigeria suppressed an ethnic rebellion. France faces difficulties with its Basques, Bretons, and Corsicans.

A nation is much more than a place on a map. It is a state of mind, a shared vision, and a recognition that we are all in this together. A nation needs a common language as it needs a common currency. You have to share something with your neighbors beside a zip code. We need many things to tie us together, but one indispensable element must be that we all speak one common language.

... America has been successful because we have become one people. There is a "social glue" of a common language, a shared history, uniting symbols that tie us together. We live under a common flag, which we honor, and salute.

Nations need cultural ties that bind also. That culture was not fixed in cement with the arrival of the Pilgrims, but is always changing and evolving. We can remember Cinco de Mayo as we do Saint Patrick's Day and Octoberfest and we can buy more salsa than catsup without endangering our national soul. But we must avoid becoming a Hispanic Quebec; we must stay one people and one nation."

Alice S. Fuzzybutt

07-26-2010, 07:59 PM

This is my rant about people who go through legal means to be here vs. the illegals.

My husband came here a few years ago from Ecuador. For whatever reason, back in March, they told him he had to leave. I love him dearly and it would destroy me if he had to leave. So we got married.

Today we met with our immigration lawyer (BELIEVE ME!! NO ONE should deal with immigration alone). Because I got laid off 3 weeks ago, I was told I was unable to sponsor him. I showed our lawyer my bank account statements and mutual fund statements. NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

I have to get a co-sponsor. I have no family. Marco's friends and family are in the same proverbial boat he's in. I have no family. I have to ask my friends to be a co-sponsor of my own husband. My friends are AWESOME. But I'm not sure I'd want that kind of responsibility.

THE KICKER: although he'd be here LEGALLY, if, for whatever reason, he had to go on welfare WE WOULD HAVE TO PAY BACK EVERY SINGLE CENT. GRANTED, our lawyer said that it's HIGHLY unlikely that he'd go on welfare because he's worked ever since he got here and we have too many assets to qualify for welfare.

My husband cried at dinner tonight. It broke my heart.

"They don't care about people. They don't care about families. Doesn't matter how hard I work or how hard I try to learn English. They don't care about us."

Today I'm not so supportive of the illegal immigrant's fight. My husband is PAYING for them. If I don't find a friend to co-sponsor my husband with me then he goes back to Ecuador. He can try again in two years... and it's more difficult the second time around.

I want to be supportive of their (the illegals) fight but I CAN'T if it means I lose my husband because he did EVERYTHING right and legal.

Dude!

07-26-2010, 08:36 PM

good post

"They don't care about people. They don't care about families. Doesn't matter how hard I work or how hard I try to learn English. They don't care about us."

please tell your husband
that i speak english
and work very hard
but the government
doesn't care about me either

it's just the way it is
for all of us citizens too

A.J.

07-27-2010, 03:43 AM

Today I'm not so supportive of the illegal immigrant's fight. My husband is PAYING for them. If I don't find a friend to co-sponsor my husband with me then he goes back to Ecuador. He can try again in two years... and it's more difficult the second time around.

I want to be supportive of their (the illegals) fight but I CAN'T if it means I lose my husband because he did EVERYTHING right and legal.

That sucks P, but you bring up what this whole argument SHOULD be about: ILLEGAL immigration. Nobody in their right mind would be against immigration. That's what this country is based on. But when you break the rules, you should have to pay the price. Unfortunately, that doesn't get articulated because there's political mileage to be milked by scumbag politicians.

I hope things work out for you and your husband.

Syd

07-27-2010, 04:14 AM

That sucks P, but you bring up what this whole argument SHOULD be about: ILLEGAL immigration. Nobody in their right mind would be against immigration. That's what this country is based on. But when you break the rules, you should have to pay the price. Unfortunately, that doesn't get articulated because there's political mileage to be milked by scumbag politicians.

I hope things work out for you and your husband.

http://reason.com/assets/db/07cf533ddb1d06350cf1ddb5942ef5ad.jpg

Illegal immigration is popular since legal immigration isn't easy for the normal person.

tanless1

07-27-2010, 04:52 AM

Thanx AJ .... I think I posted this on page 2 and 6( just guessing) and stopped participating. Keep saying it again and again , as its true. No one here is against immigraition(legal) yet we are still argueing 44 pages later.

Good luck ,Fuzzy. Wish I had some work to send your way.

Yes, redress is needed, but not what these knuckleheads are going to shove down our throat in order to garner more votes from an ill informed and recently expanded electorate.

Syd

07-27-2010, 08:20 AM

I doubt anyone in here differs all too much. WF and I likely have disagreements on what should be done with those illegally here now and some other stuff, but it isn't like I want illegal immigration. I'd much rather it be done legally and provide a framework for immigrants to integrate.

All the laws are doing now is just making it more and more combative without addressing the issue of our immigration system being utter shit and designed only to benefit corporations instead of society as a whole. Right now we have slave labor and a target to blame our problems on. It doesn't grow our society/make our society stronger, it just further isolates us and causes us to hate our neighbors.

A.J.

07-27-2010, 08:31 AM

Right now we have slave labor and a target to blame our problems on.

I've seen worse in the Middle East. The Latino worker equivalent there are Pakistanis/Bangladeshis/Indonesians/Filipinos. Those "guest workers" who do all the shit jobs get paid next to nothing and live in hovels. Picture doing building construction or roadwork in 110+ degree heat for 12 hours a day and getting a shitty wage for it. And every day there's some article about a maid being beaten and raped by their Arab sponsor.

WRESTLINGFAN

07-27-2010, 09:21 AM

Syd

07-27-2010, 10:49 AM

I do agree with you on your points on corporations wanting the cheap labor and that they can get away with it.

I think our immigration system has gotten out of control due to it just being another huge bureaucracy with redundancy, ineffectiveness and waste

and if immigration reform happened that opened up a gate and an educational system for immigrants we'd have a shitload less illegal immigrants and more immigrants capable of rapid integration with society. Even something as broad of a scope of that would be far cheaper than immigration control now. Then we can be a little bit more vigilant on the borders and even the most pansy liberal can't cry foul. If people are still hopping the fence when we have an Ellis Island along the Rio Grande, fuck 'em. You can't help those that don't want to be helped.

Alice S. Fuzzybutt

07-27-2010, 04:02 PM

Syd,

I love that graph! It does help understand the system. But how come everyone who seems to get kicked out is brown or of color? That even made Marco laugh.

None of my friends will co-sponsor us. I've sent out about 30 resumes today (on top of the 20 or so I've sent out since I got fired). I'm hoping I'll have a job by August 19th. Even the lawyer said my chances of finding a job by then are slim to none.

Who knows. I've heard Quito, Ecuador is quite lovely. Maybe I'll sell off all my assets and join him down there. While I can't blame them for not wanting to co-sponsor us, I don't consider my friends close anymore. His mom owns a three-family house. Maybe we can live in one of her apartments. I don't know.

I just feel a lot of pressure from my husband to either find a co-sponsor or to find a job. :wallbash:

WRESTLINGFAN

07-28-2010, 07:45 AM

Many of these Latino players have immense talent but no intelligence and don't know the difference btwn legal and illegal.

Lets see if they would be paid millions to play in their home countries.

On a funnier note the Mets will have more of a crowd outside than in the stadium

:lol:

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/07/28/2010-07-28_latino_players_step_up_rally_against_arizonas_i mmigration_law_to_hit_metsdiamond.html

WRESTLINGFAN

07-28-2010, 10:15 AM

A clinton appointed Judge is the latest shill for the Mexican government.

Judge to American citizens and legal immigrants. DROP DEAD!!!!!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_arizona_immigration#mwpphu-container

brettmojo

07-28-2010, 10:40 AM

WRESTLINGFAN

07-28-2010, 10:45 AM

Gay.

Elena Kagan didnt give the ruling.

This hack basically gave carte blanche for anyone to hop the border or overstay their visa. All you have to do is slither in and you get a job, entitlements and to leech off the taxpayer.

brettmojo

07-28-2010, 10:56 AM

God forbid this country actually lets any law that actually works be enacted.

WRESTLINGFAN

07-28-2010, 11:52 AM

I hope AZ appeals that bags ruling. The 9th circuit will probably stand by the ruling, looks like it could go to SCOTUS

Dude!

07-28-2010, 01:45 PM

Spoon said that
Mexican immigrants
have brought us
the bedbug infestation

one more reason
to welcome them

WRESTLINGFAN

07-28-2010, 05:35 PM

I hope Sheriff Joe Arpaio rounds up about 20 illegals and puts them on the Judges front Lawn. Lets see if she likes her new Amigos on her property

epo

07-28-2010, 05:36 PM

God forbid this country actually lets any law that actually works be enacted.

There is that whole "Constitution" thing.

Syd

07-28-2010, 05:56 PM

I hope Sheriff Joe Arpaio rounds up about 20 illegals and puts them on the Judges front Lawn. Lets see if she likes her new Amigos on her property

That'd be an improvement on his usual habit of burning down innocent people's houses and killing their dog.

brettmojo

07-28-2010, 06:28 PM

There is that whole "Constitution" thing.
Yes. The "Constitution Thing" that was written to protect CITIZENS. Not criminals from another country.

epo

07-28-2010, 06:40 PM

Yes. The "Constitution Thing" that was written to protect CITIZENS. Not criminals from another country.

As recently as 2008 with the Boumediene v. Bush case, the Supreme Court completely disagrees with you.

Dude!

07-28-2010, 06:43 PM

As recently as 2008 with the Boumediene v. Bush case, the Supreme Court completely disagrees with you.

you made that up

WRESTLINGFAN

07-28-2010, 07:51 PM

Only in America can a person enter the country illegally, find a cash paying job, knock someone up get free medical and food stamps from the government, not pay any taxes or offer any real benefit to the society and taxpayers are forced to pay for their jackpot babies. You think those preggos are paying each time they pop out another kid? Then there are cunts like that judge offer rulings that illegals basically have free rein. Why is the USA the only country that's supposed to ignore its own laws? Is the judge doing right for the people? Of course not. Citizens are looked down upon and these leeches are venerated by the politicians and special interests

Scum like Luis Guiterrez and Bob Menendez, Chuck Schumer, Lindsey Graham want all these illegals to become citizens so they can take even more money from taxpayers and dole it out to them

epo

07-28-2010, 08:12 PM

you made that up

Supreme Court case (http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/06-1195.ZS.html)

Only in America can a person enter the country illegally, find a cash paying job, knock someone up get free medical and food stamps from the government, not pay any taxes or offer any real benefit to the society and taxpayers are forced to pay for their jackpot babies. You think those preggos are paying each time they pop out another kid? Then there are cunts like that judge offer rulings that illegals basically have free rein. Why is the USA the only country that's supposed to ignore its own laws? Is the judge doing right for the people? Of course not. Citizens are looked down upon and these leeches are venerated by the politicians and special interests

Scum like Luis Guiterrez and Bob Menendez, Chuck Schumer, Lindsey Graham want all these illegals to become citizens so they can take even more money from taxpayers and dole it out to them

Seriously....we get it...you don't like brown people other than ones you'd put your dick in.

keithy_19

07-28-2010, 08:12 PM

Ya know, I got to say, maybe we should just make getting into the country legally a lot simpler and a lot shorter of a process.

tanless1

07-28-2010, 08:13 PM

Wonder if this judge was offerd a job.

Can we impeach judges ?

tanless1

07-28-2010, 08:16 PM

epo

07-28-2010, 08:20 PM

You know that is not the issue , Epo. Shame on you for attempting (yet again) someone that dissagrees with you as a racist and not address the issue that this judges decision is incorrect....... do they calll that technique a " shield" ...I loose track.

You can disagree with the judge, but the ruling will stand if appealed. Major provisions of the law are simply unconstitutional.

tanless1

07-28-2010, 08:23 PM

No they aren't, what the feds. Have done is derelict, bordering on fraud.

tanless1

07-28-2010, 08:24 PM

Apologies for poor sentence structure.....don't always catch the phones auto features.

tanless1

07-28-2010, 08:26 PM

....the only reason it would stand is because its the 9th circut....which has been overturned by the supreme court more than any other appeals court.

tanless1

07-28-2010, 08:27 PM

....is there another i in circuit ?

torker

07-28-2010, 09:14 PM

....is there another i in circuit ?

c

torker

07-28-2010, 09:15 PM

c

h

PapaBear

07-28-2010, 09:18 PM

i?
c?
h?

Can I buy another i?

Dude!

07-28-2010, 09:22 PM

i?
c?
h?

Can I buy another i?

i
c
h
i

b
a
n

hanso

07-29-2010, 02:00 AM

Good we don't need dupe laws. And the waste that comes with it.

A.J.

07-29-2010, 04:11 AM

I hope Sheriff Joe Arpaio rounds up about 20 illegals and puts them on the Judges front Lawn. Lets see if she likes her new Amigos on her property

If they're doing the landscaping, who wouldn't?

WRESTLINGFAN

07-29-2010, 04:55 AM

You know that is not the issue , Epo. Shame on you for attempting (yet again) someone that dissagrees with you as a racist and not address the issue that this judges decision is incorrect....... do they calll that technique a " shield" ...I loose track.

At this point I really don't care what the open borders crowd thinks. They dont like that most of the country is opposed to illegal immigration no matter where someones from but the tired old rant of "HE HATES MEXICANS" is to be expected.

Also it really amazes me how people a thousand miles from the border or live in cities/ towns not affected from this human tsunami don't see the damage of illegal immigration

WRESTLINGFAN

07-29-2010, 07:29 AM

I really don't care what some foreign government especially Mexico thinks about our laws. The ignorant people in that country don't even know that their laws are draconian and they want to keep brown people out, you know they dont want any of those Guatemalans or Hondurans slithering into their country. Calderon lectures this country about our laws and the Dems cheer him on

foodcourtdruide

07-29-2010, 07:35 AM

At this point I really don't care what the open borders crowd thinks. They dont like that most of the country is opposed to illegal immigration no matter where someones from but the tired old rant of "HE HATES MEXICANS" is to be expected.

Also it really amazes me how people a thousand miles from the border or live in cities/ towns not affected from this human tsunami don't see the damage of illegal immigration

By your logic, anyone not from NY/DC/PA should not have an opinion regarding 9/11.

Dude!

07-29-2010, 07:43 AM

By your logic, anyone not from NY/DC/PA should not have an opinion regarding 9/11.

he said: Also it really amazes me how people a thousand miles from the border or live in cities/ towns not affected from this human tsunami don't see the damage of illegal immigration

everyone in the world
saw the damage of 9/11
over and over and over

WRESTLINGFAN

07-29-2010, 07:52 AM

he said:

everyone in the world
saw the damage of 9/11
over and over and over

Damn those live news feeds!!!!

foodcourtdruide

07-29-2010, 07:55 AM

he said:

everyone in the world
saw the damage of 9/11
over and over and over

I took it as him saying you must be immersed in it to feel the damage. Sorry for the misinterpretation WF.

WRESTLINGFAN

07-29-2010, 08:26 AM

I took it as him saying you must be immersed in it to feel the damage. Sorry for the misinterpretation WF.

No harm done

Whats going on in SI ? Ive seen that there have been attacks on Hispanics. Saw that the Mexican consulate has set up shop there. While I am against illegals being here, vigilantism isn't a solution

foodcourtdruide

07-29-2010, 08:46 AM

No harm done

Whats going on in SI ? Ive seen that there have been attacks on Hispanics. Saw that the Mexican consulate has set up shop there. While I am against illegals being here, vigilantism isn't a solution

It's really a terrible and sad thing. Some of the attacks have been just a few blocks from my house. There's serious fear in the community.

WRESTLINGFAN

07-29-2010, 08:55 AM

Almost all cases involved were black on brown attacks

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/07/28/new.york.assaults.bias/index.html?eref=rss_crime

foodcourtdruide

07-29-2010, 08:59 AM

Almost all cases involved were black on brown attacks

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/07/28/new.york.assaults.bias/index.html?eref=rss_crime

I can't even imagine the amount of hatred and ignorance it takes to attack someone becasue of their ethnicity. This is being taken extremely seriously in Staten Island, as it should.

Barnaby Jones

07-29-2010, 09:48 AM

Ya know, I got to say, maybe we should just make getting into the country legally a lot simpler and a lot shorter of a process.

DING-DING-DING!

Give the kid a prize!

Just kidding! Punch him in the face! But really, he's right!

foodcourtdruide

07-29-2010, 10:02 AM

DING-DING-DING!

Give the kid a prize!

Just kidding! Punch him in the face! But really, he's right!

I agree. I don't like our "cut of our nose, to spite our face" approach.

Jujubees2

07-29-2010, 11:51 AM

Ya know, I got to say, maybe we should just make getting into the country legally a lot simpler and a lot shorter of a process.

But that wouldn't be fair to people like WrestlingFan who worked so hard to be born to parents in this country :blink:

WRESTLINGFAN

07-29-2010, 12:21 PM

But that wouldn't be fair to people like WrestlingFan who worked so hard to be born to parents in this country :blink:

Can't call me an anchor baby :clap:

epo

07-29-2010, 12:33 PM

Can't call me an anchor baby :clap:

Anchor Baby.

Barnaby Jones

07-29-2010, 01:09 PM

Can't call me an anchor baby :clap:

You're just an anchor, dragging us all down!

conman823

07-29-2010, 02:19 PM

I can't even imagine the amount of hatred and ignorance it takes to attack someone becasue of their ethnicity. This is being taken extremely seriously in Staten Island, as it should.

I was born and raised in Port Richmond and this behavior is not new, just more frequent. Thats why I moved to the South Shore, where Whitey lives and this doesn't happen.

WRESTLINGFAN

07-31-2010, 11:25 AM

Where is lulac Mecha and la raza having candlelight vigils and causing civil disobedience over dozens of black on brown crimes. You aren't seeing hundreds of people marching with pictures of our lady of Guadelupe angry over this. You know why? The Latino poverty pimps are afraid to clash against Sharpton , Jackson and the NAACP. Those aren't hate crimes. Holders DOJ won't look into this. But when it's whites that are perps all the protected classes go apeshit

epo

08-01-2010, 05:05 PM

epo

08-01-2010, 06:51 PM

Right wing makes up lie about Mexican border security:

Right-Wingers Stand By Their Fabricated Mexican Drug Cartel Raid Story (http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/07/right-wingers_stand_by_their_fabricated_mexican_dr.php?r ef=fpb)

According to anonymously-sourced reports pushed by right-wing blogs last weekend, members of Mexico's notorious Zetas drug gang crossed the border into Texas and, "in what could be deemed an act of war," seized two ranches near the border town of Laredo. The situation was dire, wingers warned, but a government enforced media blackout kept knowledge of the raid from the general public.

Really?

No, not really.

Here's the thing: the "raid" never happened.

The story originated with Jeff Schwilk, the founder of the anti-immigration San Diego Minutemen. In an interview with TPM, Schwilk said he has a friend who has a friend in the Laredo, Texas police department. According to Schwilk, the Laredo PD source contacted Schwilk's friend late on July 23, saying "some big stuff was going down."

Is the truth too hard for the WrestlingFan's friends to handle?

WRESTLINGFAN

08-01-2010, 07:08 PM

From that hate filled right wing racist rag Newsweek

http://www.newsweek.com/2008/11/28/bloodshed-on-the-border.html

For EPO. More recent news

More Fox news inspired propaganda from that ultra conservative L A Times

http://projects.latimes.com/mexico-drug-war/#/its-a-war

Dude!

08-01-2010, 07:29 PM

Jujubees2

08-02-2010, 05:56 AM

WRESTLINGFAN

08-02-2010, 06:00 AM

My hard-earned tax dollars went to pay for medical treatments for a Mexican in a US hospital?

It happenes every day. These mopes pump out another Jackpot baby and we pick up the tab.

Some country we are living in

WRESTLINGFAN

08-02-2010, 11:16 AM

Again where are the immigrant rights groups marching and causing public discourse. Well in this case, its nothing to see since the perp is a Liberian Immigrant

From La Raza,lulac, MALDEF. The silence is deafening

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2010/08/02/2010-08-02_15yearold_boy_arrested_in_attack_on_mexican_imm igrant_on_staten_island.html

foodcourtdruide

08-02-2010, 11:30 AM

WRESTLINGFAN

08-02-2010, 11:33 AM

Why does it matter that he was Liberian???

If this was a bunch of whites who did this, it would have been national news. This crime is atrocious and should have never happened. Theres a double standard that I am pointing out.

Dude!

08-02-2010, 11:43 AM

Why does it matter that he was Liberian???

because in our justice system:

white on black crime = hate crime
black on brown crime = hate crime
white on brown crime = hate crime

black on white crime = happy crime
brown on white crime = happy crime

thanks to you and
your lefty friends
for this fair and just system

WRESTLINGFAN

08-02-2010, 11:50 AM

because in our justice system:

white on black crime = hate crime
black on brown crime = hate crime
white on brown crime = hate crime

black on white crime = happy crime
brown on white crime = happy crime

thanks to you and
your lefty friends
for this fair and just system

Equal protection under the law, except if your skin lacks melanin and youre hetero

Ritalin

08-02-2010, 11:56 AM

It happenes every day. These mopes pump out another Jackpot baby and we pick up the tab.

Some country we are living in

Jackpot baby or anchor baby. Which is it already?

foodcourtdruide

08-02-2010, 12:04 PM

If this was a bunch of whites who did this, it would have been national news. This crime is atrocious and should have never happened. Theres a double standard that I am pointing out.

The media completely sucks, I think we can all agree on this. On the flip side, compare coverage of missing white children, to missing black children. You would think a black child has never gone missing in this country if you watched our news. Also, (ironically, also on Staten Island) compare the woman who recently killed her family, to say, the coverage of Susan Smith. I don't think these double standards are as nefarious as you think. The media has a certain formula and they stick to it.

foodcourtdruide

08-02-2010, 12:05 PM

because in our justice system:

white on black crime = hate crime
black on brown crime = hate crime
white on brown crime = hate crime

black on white crime = happy crime
brown on white crime = happy crime

thanks to you and
your lefty friends
for this fair and just system

WF's point about media coverage was valid, however, this is insane.

foodcourtdruide

08-02-2010, 12:14 PM

WRESTLINGFAN

08-02-2010, 12:29 PM

The media completely sucks, I think we can all agree on this. On the flip side, compare coverage of missing white children, to missing black children. You would think a black child has never gone missing in this country if you watched our news. Also, (ironically, also on Staten Island) compare the woman who recently killed her family, to say, the coverage of Susan Smith. I don't think these double standards are as nefarious as you think. The media has a certain formula and they stick to it.

I do agree with the missing/runaways. Just look at Natalee Holloway and that runaway Bride from a few yrs ago

WRESTLINGFAN

08-02-2010, 12:30 PM

Jackpot baby or anchor baby. Which is it already?

Cash cows ?

foodcourtdruide

08-02-2010, 12:31 PM

I do agree with the missing/runaways. Just look at Natalee Holloway and that runaway Bride from a few yrs ago

Missing white women and children is front page news. I think it has to do with the "proximity" rule of "what makes news".

keithy_19

08-02-2010, 12:57 PM

How about instead of pushing the idea of hate crimes, we just punish people based on the merit of the crime?

Who cares the color of your skin.

Syd

08-02-2010, 03:30 PM

Some crimes are more grievous than others. Same way that there's different types of murder, there can be different types of crimes. hate crimes are one of them.

A.J.

08-03-2010, 03:56 AM

WRESTLINGFAN

08-03-2010, 04:50 AM

This is big news down here: Drunken Driver Suspect in Crash That Killed Nun Was in U.S. Illegally (http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local-beat/Nun-Killed-in-VA-Crash-99736059.html)

And he had prior DUI violations... (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/02/AR2010080205264.html?hpid=newswell)

Unfortunately this is a problem throughout the country. There have been so many horrible crimes just like this. Drunken illegals using vehicles as weapons

Its not just a drunk driving issue, if scum like this guy were not here illegally the nun would have been alive.

I've seen in the news that Prince William county is beginning to crack down big time on illegals and their employers and landlords as the scenario has spiraled out of control

foodcourtdruide

08-03-2010, 05:11 AM

Unfortunately this is a problem throughout the country. There have been so many horrible crimes just like this. Drunken illegals using vehicles as weapons

Its not just a drunk driving issue, if scum like this guy were not here illegally the nun would have been alive.

I've seen in the news that Prince William county is beginning to crack down big time on illegals and their employers and landlords as the scenario has spiraled out of control

Unless you can prove the number of drunk driving incidents involving illegal immigrants is disproportionate to their population in the United States, your claims like "illegals using vehicles like weapons" or acting like it's a "problem throughout the country" has no validity.

This is like me posting articles about drunk driving incidents only red heads were involved in, then saying red headed people are more apt to have drunk driving incidents, without putting it into context.

WRESTLINGFAN

08-03-2010, 05:20 AM

Unless you can prove the number of drunk driving incidents involving illegal immigrants is disproportionate to their population in the United States, your claims like "illegals using vehicles like weapons" or acting like it's a "problem throughout the country" has no validity.

This is like me posting articles about drunk driving incidents only red heads were involved in, then saying red headed people are more apt to have drunk driving incidents, without putting it into context.

http://www.usillegalaliens.com/impacts_of_illegal_immigration_traffic_accidents.h tml

foodcourtdruide

08-03-2010, 05:23 AM

http://www.usillegalaliens.com/impacts_of_illegal_immigration_traffic_accidents.h tml

This article doesn't seem to prove what I was asking?

Drunky McBetidont

08-03-2010, 05:24 AM

is obama an illegal? he looks chinese or something. maybe cuban. you guys better get on this!!!

WRESTLINGFAN

08-03-2010, 05:39 AM

This article doesn't seem to prove what I was asking?

Are you looking for info about states with a large number of illegals and drunk driving? Heres something that sheds light on that. While this is a few years old, it does have validity. Hes an excerpt from the article

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Roadkillers%3A+unlicensed,+drunk-driving+illegal+aliens+are+killing...-a0162183989

One such eye-opener appeared as "The hit-kill-and-run state" stories, published in 2005 in the Arizona Daily Star The Arizona Daily Star is the major morning daily newspaper that serves Tucson, Arizona, and Southern Arizona. It is currently owned by Lee Enterprises.

The Star is in a joint operating agreement with the Tucson Citizen . "The seven states with the highest rates of fatal hit-and-run crashes," the paper reported, "are also the seven states that have the most illegal immigrants, according to according to
prep.
1. As stated or indicated by; on the authority of: according to historians.

2. In keeping with: according to instructions.

3. two think tanks." With 500,000 illegal aliens, or 9 percent of its population, the paper reported, Arizona ranked fifth in that measure behind California, Texas, Florida, and New YorkNew York, state, United States
New York, Middle Atlantic state of the United States. It is bordered by Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, and the Atlantic Ocean (E), New Jersey and Pennsylvania (S), Lakes Erie and Ontario and the Canadian province of
..... Click the link for more information.. About 5.6 percent of Arizona's fatal crashes between 1994 and 2004, the newspaper reported, were hit-and-run.

In California, the state with the most illegal immigrants, more than 7 percent of the fatal wrecks were hit-and-run, the Daily Star reported, the highest in the nation. With one million unlicensed drivers., California also boasted the highest number of hit-and-runs of all the states, according to a 2003 San Francisco Chronicle The San Francisco Chronicle was founded in 1865 as The Daily Dramatic Chronicle by teenage brothers Charles de Young and Michael H. de Young.[2] The paper grew along with San Francisco to become the largest circulation newspaper on the West Coast of the article.

More recent data on California, gleaned from the federal Fatality Analysis Reporting SystemFatality Analysis Reporting System (FARS) was created in the United States by NHTSA (the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration) to provide an overall measure of highway safety, to help suggest solutions, and to help provide an objective basis to evaluate the effectiveness
..... Click the link for more information., show that California's figure for fatal hit-and-runs in 2005 reached 9 percent, or 347 of 3,846 fatal crashes. Arizona's number stayed the same as its average from 1994 to 2004. The figure for Texas came in at 5 percent, an increase from 4.5 percent. Florida's figure increased from 4.9 percent to 5.6 percent.

By contrast, the states with the lowest percentage of fatal hit-and-run crashes also had the lowest number of illegals. In Vermont, with 4,000 illegals in 2005, the Federation for American Immigration ReformThe Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) is a non-partisan, non-profit 501(c)(3) educational organization in the United States that advocates for reforms of U.S. immigration policies that would result in significant immigration reduction.
..... Click the link for more information. reports, one of 68 fatal crashes was a hit-and-run. Wyoming, also with 4,000 illegals, posted just one hit-and-run fatality among 147 total, or 0.6 percent. Maine too had just 4,000 illegals. Just one of its 151 fatal crashes was a hit-and-run. "

WRESTLINGFAN

08-03-2010, 06:11 AM

Resident border security expert Lady Gaga weighs in on this

http://www.tucsonweekly.com/TheRange/archives/2010/08/02/lady-gaga-speaks-out-against-sb-1070and-musicians-boycotting-arizona

WRESTLINGFAN

08-03-2010, 12:26 PM

This is big news down here: Drunken Driver Suspect in Crash That Killed Nun Was in U.S. Illegally (http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local-beat/Nun-Killed-in-VA-Crash-99736059.html)

And he had prior DUI violations... (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/02/AR2010080205264.html?hpid=newswell)

Speaking of Drunk driving

Unlicensed, just a mexican ID Card. Port Chester, NY smells like another illegal alien to me. That town is like a Central American slum.

Unfortunately Taxpayers will be billed millions for her medicaid services. Too bad they can't pull the plug on this piece of garbage

http://www.lohud.com/article/20100803/NEWS02/8030377/Mother-in-coma-after-drunk-driving-accident-with-son-in-car-police-say

WRESTLINGFAN

08-12-2010, 12:02 PM

Anchors aweigh!! Ka ching !!!!

Guess who foots the bill ?

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/border/article_443330d0-a574-11df-b2bf-001cc4c002e0.html

These illegals and their handlers love to bastardize the 14th ammendment. BTW the shills in the media think it wants to be repealed. It doesn't need to be, it just needs to be interpreted the correct way and not have these loopholes where someone can sneak into this country and drop one out every 9 months

epo

08-12-2010, 01:14 PM

Serpico1103

08-12-2010, 01:41 PM

tanless1

08-12-2010, 02:29 PM

How about instead of pushing the idea of hate crimes, we just punish people based on the merit of the crime?

Who cares the color of your skin.

Agreed

brettmojo

08-12-2010, 02:34 PM

I wish I was an anchor baby.

I was just a regular baby.

I'm not special.

tanless1

08-12-2010, 02:49 PM

Some crimes are more grievous than others. Same way that there's different types of murder, there can be different types of crimes. hate crimes are one of them.

This is incorrect, not your fault....you've been hearing the play book at nauseum.

A crime is a crime and a murder 1 or 2 is sufficient. Premeditated regardless of race,creed,orientation, etc......would meet and re-enforce any case for murder 1. That is part of equal protection.
Hate crime is a penalty for thought,not action.....thought is not a crime no mater how perverce or heinous it might be.

When someone attacks you, you have a few tools accessible to you, physical and verbal.

Equal protection- strike down hate crime legislation and enforce the law as well as the sentence.

Now a lawyer will say "its just another tool in the box" that is also incorrect.

brettmojo

08-12-2010, 02:57 PM

Hate crimes do nothing but help perpetuate the idea that we should distinguish ourselves among racial lines. Not to mention that the law is unevenly applied.

Serpico1103

08-12-2010, 03:00 PM

This is incorrect, not your fault....you've been hearing the play book at nauseum.

A crime is a crime and a murder 1 or 2 is sufficient. Premeditated regardless of race,creed,orientation, etc......would meet and re-enforce any case for murder 1. That is part of equal protection.
Hate crime is a penalty for thought,not action.....thought is not a crime no mater how perverce or heinous it might be.

When someone attacks you, you have a few tools accessible to you, physical and verbal.

Equal protection- strike down hate crime legislation and enforce the law as well as the sentence.

Now a lawyer will say "its just another tool in the box" that is also incorrect.

so, it shouldn't be an elevated charge for assaulting a police officer?
A hate crime is seen as a worse crime against society than a crime without that motive.

Still waiting for the proper reading of the 14th.

Syd

08-12-2010, 03:19 PM

This is incorrect, not your fault....you've been hearing the play book at nauseum.

A crime is a crime and a murder 1 or 2 is sufficient. Premeditated regardless of race,creed,orientation, etc......would meet and re-enforce any case for murder 1. That is part of equal protection.
Hate crime is a penalty for thought,not action.....thought is not a crime no mater how perverce or heinous it might be.

When someone attacks you, you have a few tools accessible to you, physical and verbal.

Equal protection- strike down hate crime legislation and enforce the law as well as the sentence.

Now a lawyer will say "its just another tool in the box" that is also incorrect.

So is terrorism not an elevated crime? Should it just be charged as murder?

WRESTLINGFAN

08-12-2010, 06:14 PM

so, it shouldn't be an elevated charge for assaulting a police officer?
A hate crime is seen as a worse crime against society than a crime without that motive.

Still waiting for the proper reading of the 14th.

Subject to the jurisdiction.

Since an illegal has no allegiance to the United States, but to their home country that right there should not warrant the child to become an automatic citizen.

An example is if Bill Gates invites his secretary over for dinner and her water breaks. The baby isnt an automatic heir to the Gates' estate.

Barnaby Jones

08-12-2010, 06:26 PM

We'll chalk that analogy up as a mulligan! Care to try again?

Serpico1103

08-12-2010, 06:31 PM

Subject to the jurisdiction.

Since an illegal has no allegiance to the United States, but to their home country that right there should not warrant the child to become an automatic citizen.

An example is if Bill Gates invites his secretary over for dinner and her water breaks. The baby isnt an automatic heir to the Gates' estate.

Why wouldn't the child be subject to the jurisdiction of the US?
I think that clause only disqualifies children of diplomats?
Can you cite any support that the clause would not apply to Bill Gate's drunk driving drug dealing secretary's jackpot baby?

Crispy123

08-12-2010, 06:42 PM

Subject to the jurisdiction.

Since an illegal has no allegiance to the United States, but to their home country that right there should not warrant the child to become an automatic citizen.

An example is if Bill Gates invites his secretary over for dinner and her water breaks. The baby isnt an automatic heir to the Gates' estate.

Jurisdiction??? WTF are you talking about. Its right in the first sentence of the amendment, "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. End of story.

Serpico1103

08-12-2010, 07:18 PM

Jurisdiction??? WTF are you talking about. Its right in the first sentence of the amendment, "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. End of story.

Since he isn't here to answer, I will give the right wing reply. The court in Elk v. Wilkins (1884), said a Native American born on tribal land, although technically within the US, does not automatically gain citizenship upon renouncing his tribal allegiance and moving within US jurisdiction; off tribal land.
The problem with that argument is virtually the same court ruled 15 years later,United States v. Wong Kim Ark, that a Chinese baby, born to Chinese citizens within the US did automatically obtain US citizenship.

The right tries to spin the first case to prove their point. However, the case was ruled on the basis that the child was born on Indian land, not within US jurisdiction for purposes of the 14th A.

Relevant quote from Elks: "Indians born within the territorial limits of the United States, members of, and owing immediate allegiance to, one of the Indian tribes (an alien, though dependent, power), although in a geographical sense born in the United States, are no more "born in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof," within the meaning of the first section of the Fourteenth Amendment, than the children of subjects of any foreign government born within the domain of that government, or the children born within the United States, of ambassadors or other public ministers of foreign nations."

Children born of ambassadors and public officials, no mention of regular citizens of a foreign country who have taken up permanent residence in the US.
If this is your basis WF, you lose.

tanless1

08-12-2010, 09:39 PM

So is terrorism not an elevated crime? Should it just be charged as murder?

...and what type of terrorism are you do you reffer too ? The type that which is more accuratly prosecuted in a military tribunal ? Or are reffering to "the guy beheading his neighbors dog and bar-b-q'ing it across the street so his neighbor can see " ?

tanless1

08-12-2010, 09:47 PM

Let's consider that case were the hillbillies drug the colord fellow behind the truck.
Murder - life
Kidnapping(held against his will) also life
Assult -
Mayhem and tourture + special circumstances - also eligible for life I believe.
Do we really need one more charge of "hate crime" ?

How many life sentences can one mane serve ?

Who's bright idea would it of been to let him serve concurantly ? The problem is not the law, its the penal system oversight.
One more law of hate crime does not make it more effective.

tanless1

08-12-2010, 09:50 PM

Subject to the jurisdiction.

Since an illegal has no allegiance to the United States, but to their home country that right there should not warrant the child to become an automatic citizen.

Correct

Serpico1103

08-12-2010, 09:53 PM

...and what type of terrorism are you do you reffer too ? The type that which is more accuratly prosecuted in a military tribunal ? Or are reffering to "the guy beheading his neighbors dog and bar-b-q'ing it across the street so his neighbor can see " ?

Why do you think a military tribunal is more appropriate?
Oh that is right, because of who the parties are and the motive behind the attack. Same rationale for having a hate crime statute.

tanless1

08-12-2010, 11:00 PM

Why do you think a military tribunal is more appropriate?
Oh that is right, because of who the parties are and the motive behind the attack. Same rationale for having a hate crime statute.

Inncorrect, one is an act of war, the other is not. One is commited against a country, the other against a person.

Is this really serpico,or sombody posting under his name ?

tanless1

08-12-2010, 11:06 PM

Consider the case of the gay man , restrained,cracked with a bat and doused with gas. Is the penalty of terroist act,assult,attempted murder,mayhem enough ? Absoulutley the cumulative charges should lock the nut away for 40 years(half a life time) surely enough to rehabilitate and even cripple the perpetrature....there is no need for a hate crime charge as well.just apply the penalties and MAKE THEM STICK.....not yelling at you serp,just emphasising.

....this actually happend to a friend of mine.
Has a wicked facial scar.

tanless1

08-12-2010, 11:09 PM

...not special protection. Equal protection.

Jayw

08-12-2010, 11:40 PM

Carpenter will kick your fucking ass.

Or Wainright.

spoon

08-12-2010, 11:41 PM

Carpenter will kick your fucking ass.

Or Wainright.

good example, and on point as well.

Jayw

08-12-2010, 11:42 PM

Wait spoon my bad my anti white automatically blocked you.

Serpico1103

08-12-2010, 11:43 PM

Inncorrect, one is an act of war, the other is not. One is commited against a country, the other against a person.

Is this really serpico,or sombody posting under his name ?

A hate crime is a crime against a race as much as an act of terror is an act of war against a country.
Still not seeing it?

spoon

08-12-2010, 11:43 PM

Wait spoon my bad my anti white automatically blocked you.

what is white?

Serpico1103

08-12-2010, 11:44 PM

...not special protection. Equal protection.

I don't think you understand what equal protection means. You seem to be applying it inappropriately.

Serpico1103

08-12-2010, 11:46 PM

WRESTLINGFAN

08-13-2010, 03:15 AM

WRESTLINGFAN

08-13-2010, 03:22 AM

Since he isn't here to answer, I will give the right wing reply. The court in Elk v. Wilkins (1884), said a Native American born on tribal land, although technically within the US, does not automatically gain citizenship upon renouncing his tribal allegiance and moving within US jurisdiction; off tribal land.
The problem with that argument is virtually the same court ruled 15 years later,United States v. Wong Kim Ark, that a Chinese baby, born to Chinese citizens within the US did automatically obtain US citizenship.

The right tries to spin the first case to prove their point. However, the case was ruled on the basis that the child was born on Indian land, not within US jurisdiction for purposes of the 14th A.

Relevant quote from Elks: "Indians born within the territorial limits of the United States, members of, and owing immediate allegiance to, one of the Indian tribes (an alien, though dependent, power), although in a geographical sense born in the United States, are no more "born in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof," within the meaning of the first section of the Fourteenth Amendment, than the children of subjects of any foreign government born within the domain of that government, or the children born within the United States, of ambassadors or other public ministers of foreign nations."

Children born of ambassadors and public officials, no mention of regular citizens of a foreign country who have taken up permanent residence in the US.
If this is your basis WF, you lose.

The current misinterpretation of the 14th Amendment is based in part upon the presumption that the Wong Kim Ark ruling encompassed illegal aliens. In fact, it did not address the children of illegal aliens and non-immigrant aliens, but rather determined an allegiance for legal immigrant parents based on the meaning of the word domicil(e). Since it is inconceivable that illegal alien parents could have a legal domicile in the United States, the ruling clearly did not extend birthright citizenship to children of illegal alien parents. the ruling strengthened the original intent of the 14th Amendment .

Cork the champagne

Serpico1103

08-13-2010, 05:29 AM

The current misinterpretation of the 14th Amendment is based in part upon the presumption that the Wong Kim Ark ruling encompassed illegal aliens. In fact, it did not address the children of illegal aliens and non-immigrant aliens, but rather determined an allegiance for legal immigrant parents based on the meaning of the word domicil(e). Since it is inconceivable that illegal alien parents could have a legal domicile in the United States, the ruling clearly did not extend birthright citizenship to children of illegal alien parents. the ruling strengthened the original intent of the 14th Amendment .

Cork the champagne

I read the Wong Kim Ark case, I do not think it relies on the parents being here legally. It specifically only excludes ambassadors, hostile forces, and Native Americans from the 14th A. Why would they not mention illegals or people here temporarily?
Also, I have read other cases accepting a US domicile of illegal aliens.
So, it seems conceivable that illegals can be domiciled here. Unless, your subscription to "Drunk Driving Aliens" can produce newer relevant cases.
The parents "legal status" does not seem to be a material fact.

Small excerpt:
It can hardly be denied that an alien is completely subject to the political jurisdiction of the country in which he resides -- seeing that, as said by Mr. Webster, when Secretary of State, in his Report to [*85] the President on Thrasher's Case in 1851, and since repeated by this court, "independently of a residence with intention to continue such residence; independently of any domiciliation; independently of the taking of any oath of allegiance or of renouncing any former allegiance, it is well known that, by the public law, an alien, or a stranger born, for so long a time as he continues within the dominions of a foreign government, owes obedience to the laws of that government, and may be punished for treason, or other crimes, as a native-born subject might be, unless his case is varied by some treaty stipulations." Ex. Doc. H.R. No. 10, 1st sess. 32d Congress, p. 4; 6 Webster's Works, 526; United States v. Carlisle, 16 Wall. 147, 155; Calvin's Case, 7 Rep. 6a; Ellesmere on Postnati, 63; 1 Hale P.C. 62; 4 Bl. Com. 74, 92.

POP!

Where is proof of the proper interpretation? And please stop copying and pasting from biased sites. Your quote is all over google.

WRESTLINGFAN

08-13-2010, 05:53 AM

I read the Wong Kim Ark case, I do not think it relies on the parents being here legally. It specifically only excludes ambassadors, hostile forces, and Native Americans from the 14th A. Why would they not mention illegals or people here temporarily?
Also, I have read other cases accepting a US domicile of illegal aliens.
So, it seems conceivable that illegals can be domiciled here. Unless, your subscription to "Drunk Driving Aliens" can produce newer relevant cases.
The parents "legal status" does not seem to be a material fact.

Small excerpt:
It can hardly be denied that an alien is completely subject to the political jurisdiction of the country in which he resides -- seeing that, as said by Mr. Webster, when Secretary of State, in his Report to [*85] the President on Thrasher's Case in 1851, and since repeated by this court, "independently of a residence with intention to continue such residence; independently of any domiciliation; independently of the taking of any oath of allegiance or of renouncing any former allegiance, it is well known that, by the public law, an alien, or a stranger born, for so long a time as he continues within the dominions of a foreign government, owes obedience to the laws of that government, and may be punished for treason, or other crimes, as a native-born subject might be, unless his case is varied by some treaty stipulations." Ex. Doc. H.R. No. 10, 1st sess. 32d Congress, p. 4; 6 Webster's Works, 526; United States v. Carlisle, 16 Wall. 147, 155; Calvin's Case, 7 Rep. 6a; Ellesmere on Postnati, 63; 1 Hale P.C. 62; 4 Bl. Com. 74, 92.

POP!

Where is proof of the proper interpretation? And please stop copying and pasting from biased sites. Your quote is all over google.

Illegal aliens are subject to the jurisdiction of their home countries. Wong Kims parents were in the steps to becoming citizens. Illegal aliens are exactly that. ILLEGAL!!!!! Cant be any clearer than that.

sailor

08-13-2010, 06:06 AM

i assume neither of you are going to be arresting people or trying cases, so who cares about your interpretation of the law? not trying to be a dick, but what does it matter?

foodcourtdruide

08-13-2010, 06:10 AM

Illegal aliens are subject to the jurisdiction of their home countries. Wong Kims parents were in the steps to becoming citizens. Illegal aliens are exactly that. ILLEGAL!!!!! Cant be any clearer than that.

WF, why are you trying to sum up an extremely complicated discussion with a bumper sticker? Clearly, the notion "THE WORD ILLEGAL IS IN THERE SO THE CASE IS CLOSED" does not suffice or this wouldn't even be in debate in this country.

WRESTLINGFAN

08-13-2010, 06:11 AM

i assume neither of you are going to be arresting people or trying cases, so who cares about your interpretation of the law? not trying to be a dick, but what does it matter?

I am not an ICE agent, but I play one on TV

booster11373

08-13-2010, 06:15 AM

I am not an ICE agent, but I play one on TV

If there was some kind of minor league for Fox news asswipes I would nominate you and your sponge like ability to repeat everything you can find that reinforces your limited world view.

I salute you sir!

WRESTLINGFAN

08-13-2010, 06:24 AM

If there was some kind of minor league for Fox news asswipes I would nominate you and your sponge like ability to repeat everything you can find that reinforces your limited world view.

I salute you sir!

Limited world view? when in 4 years in the Marine corps I have been to many countries a lot of them in the 3rd world. Please dont make assumptions. I wouldnt call you a dirty American hating hippie because we are on opposite views of the spectrum

anything opposed to your views you yell out Fox News. Whats next NEOCON? Bible thumper?

Serpico1103

08-13-2010, 06:25 AM

Illegal aliens are subject to the jurisdiction of their home countries. Wong Kims parents were in the steps to becoming citizens. Illegal aliens are exactly that. ILLEGAL!!!!! Cant be any clearer than that.

Plyler v. Doe US Supreme Court

"Appellants seek to distinguish our prior cases, emphasizing that the Equal Protection Clause directs a State to afford its protection to persons within its jurisdiction, while the Due Process Clauses of the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments contain no such assertedly limiting phrase. In appellants' view, persons who have entered the United States illegally are not "within the jurisdiction" of a State even if they are present within a State's boundaries and subject to its laws. Neither our cases nor the logic of the Fourteenth Amendment support that constricting construction of the phrase "within its jurisdiction." [Footnote 10] We have never suggested that the class of persons who might avail themselves of the equal protection guarantee is less than coextensive with that entitled to due process. To the contrary, we have recognized that both provisions were fashioned to protect an identical class of persons, and to reach every exercise of state authority."

Case opinion stating that illegals are "within the jurisdiction" of the US. Sorry, but your simplistic understanding of legal terms will not do.

More from Plyler:

"Appellants argue at the outset that undocumented aliens, because of their immigration status, are not "persons within the jurisdiction" of the State of Texas, and that they therefore have no right to the equal protection of Texas law. We reject this argument."

Support your argument. If I am wrong, I am wrong, but prove it.:drunk::drunk::drunk:

WRESTLINGFAN

08-13-2010, 06:40 AM

Illegal aliens are subject to the jurisdiction of their home countries. Wong Kims parents were in the steps to becoming citizens. Illegal aliens are exactly that. ILLEGAL!!!!! Cant be any clearer than that.

"The 14th Amendment stipulates that Congress has the power to enforce its provisions by enactment of legislation, and the power to enforce a law is necessarily accompanied by the authority to interpret that law. Therefore, an act of Congress stating its interpretation of the 14th Amendment, as not to include the offspring of illegal aliens, would fall within Congress's prerogative".

There's actually no mandate
By John C. Eastman
(Originally published in the Des Moines Register, September 16, 2007)

When immigration activist and sanctuary beneficiary Elvira Arellano was arrested in Los Angeles and deported back to Mexico last month, claims of unfairness were leveled because she was being separated from her son, a U.S. "citizen." Similarly, Yaser Esam Hamdi, captured on the battlefield in Afghanistan and held in Guantanamo Bay, was transferred to Norfolk, Va., and treated as a citizen after it was discovered that he had been born in Baton Rouge, La., some 20 years earlier.

Most people in the country today take for granted the claims that Arellano's son and Yaser Hamdi are citizens. Mere birth on U.S. soil, no matter the parental status, is alone sufficient, according to the received understanding of the Constitution. This is true, they believe, despite the fact that Arellano's son was born while his mother was in this country illegally, and Hamdi was born while his parents were residing in the United States on a short-term work visa.

The Constitution does not actually mandate such a result.

To be sure, the Fourteenth Amendment guarantees citizenship to anyone "born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof," but for those who drafted and ratified the clause, "subject to the jurisdiction" meant much more than mere territorial jurisdiction. Being born in the United States while subject to the political jurisdiction - the "I-pledge-allegiance-and-can-be-prosecuted-for-treason" type of jurisdiction - was required. As Senator Reverdy Johnson of Maryland noted during floor debate at the time the clause was proposed, the citizenship clause simply provides "that all persons born in the United States and not subject to some foreign power . . . shall be considered as citizens of the United States." The author of the provision, Senator Jacob Howard, maintained that the clause "will not, of course, include foreigners."

Thirty years after the 14th Amendment was ratified, the Supreme Court expanded the constitutional mandate slightly, holding that the children of legal, permanent residents were automatically citizens, but the court has never held that the clause also confers automatic citizenship on the children of temporary visitors, much less on the children born to those who are in this country illegally. We have simply backed into that understanding, without consideration of the actual meaning of the citizenship clause or concern about the consequences to other constitutional text and principles.

One such principle is the idea of government by consent. Birthright citizenship permits some to demand citizenship unilaterally, without the consent of the political community in which membership is claimed. It is therefore incompatible with a system of government based upon consent of the governed and, when utilized by those who enter this country illegally, the rule of law as well.

The lessons learned by the "unilateral citizen" children of illegal immigrants are, unfortunately, not the principles of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, but rather those of a culturally separate underclass whose illegal residence among us all but assures a deep suspicion, rather than embrace, of our governing institutions and principles.

And the lessons learned by others - legal immigrants who patiently wait for their turn at a new life in America, for example- is a lack of respect for the rule of law that will ultimately threaten our entire system unless we get serious about removing the inducements to illegal immigration, including birthright citizenship.

JOHN C. EASTMAN is dean and Donald P. Kennedy Chair in Law at Chapman University School of Law in Orange, Calif.

Barnaby Jones

08-13-2010, 06:58 AM

Serpico presents SC rulings; WF presents op-ed pieces!

Barnaby Jones

08-13-2010, 07:00 AM

Limited world view? when in 4 years in the Marine corps I have been to many countries a lot of them in the 3rd world. Please dont make assumptions.

Maybe it has something to do with how you present your side of the argument! You waste most of your time attempting to demonize very specific groups of people as dangerous and even subhuman, yet you expect people to think that you don't have a limited worldview! Can't have it both ways!

Serpico1103

08-13-2010, 07:07 AM

There's actually no mandate
By John C. Eastman
(Originally published in the Des Moines Register, September 16, 2007)

Des Moines Register? Please try again.
Quoting one or two Senators out of 76 (I believe). Seriously, do you have any understanding of the law, except for what your right wing sites feed you?

Link to the entire debate. Let us both read what language was excluded, what other senators' opinions were. I have shown you SC cases 20 years after the amendment and recent ones to support my position. You have cited small town newspaper articles.

WRESTLINGFAN

08-13-2010, 07:08 AM

Maybe it has something to do with how you present your side of the argument! You waste most of your time attempting to demonize very specific groups of people as dangerous and even subhuman, yet you expect people to think that you don't have a limited worldview! Can't have it both ways!

I am not demonizing or calling them subhuman, but My case is that it is a problem when people come here to sneak into the country illegally, having children that they do not pay for and having we the taxpayers foot the bill An average childbith is about 10-15K and thats even more if its a C section. Furthermore the hundreds of billions of dollars to educate their children, their healthcare costs, to imprison them and all the entitlements, That is a huge fiscal drain. The very little they contribute in sales taxes is minuscule compared to the huge amount of tax dollars they consume.

I know it sounds harsh but again the majority of illegals are from Latin America where customs like driving drunk, excessive drinking and molestation of young children is commonplace in their cultures

booster11373

08-13-2010, 07:12 AM

I am not demonizing or calling them subhuman, but My case is that it is a problem when people come here to sneak into the country illegally, having children that they do not pay for and having we the taxpayers foot the bill An average childbith is about 10-15K and thats even more if its a C section. Furthermore the hundreds of billions of dollars to educate their children, their healthcare costs, to imprison them and all the entitlements, That is a huge fiscal drain. The very little they contribute in sales taxes is minuscule compared to the huge amount of tax dollars they consume.

I know it sounds harsh but again the majority of illegals are from Latin America where customs like driving drunk, excessive drinking and molestation of young children is commonplace in their cultures

You are silly and your views are childish I would say you are mentally ill but I dont want to limit myself.

Your foolish and narrow minded view will never change and with people like you even in the debate the immigration issue will never be solved

WRESTLINGFAN

08-13-2010, 07:13 AM

Des Moines Register? Please try again.
Quoting one or two Senators out of 76 (I believe). Seriously, do you have any understanding of the law, except for what your right wing sites feed you?

Link to the entire debate. Let us both read what language was excluded, what other senators' opinions were. I have shown you SC cases 20 years after the amendment and recent ones to support my position. You have cited small town newspaper articles.

Does it really matter what size of the city is? So if its not from the Chicago Sun Times or WaPo its not relevant?

I have a clear understanding of the law and the 14th Ammendment has been abused by the open borders lobby to think that anyone born here is an automatic citizen when its intent was the exact opposite

booster11373

08-13-2010, 07:15 AM

WRESTLINGFAN

08-13-2010, 07:15 AM

You are silly and your views are childish I would say you are mentally ill but I dont want to limit myself.

Your foolish and narrow minded view will never change and with people like you even in the debate the immigration issue will never be solved

There isn't a problem with illegal immigration?

So where are most of the illegals coming from? Sweden? If that was the case then there could be an arguement that they are bringing bad music with them

Narrow minded? And what bubble are you living in? Did you even know that the age of Consent in Mexico is as young as 12. You don't see the damage of illegal immigration and the unwillingness to enforce immigration laws. You sir are the one who needs to be committed to Bellvue

booster11373

08-13-2010, 07:20 AM

There isn't a problem with illegal immigration?

Narrow minded? And what bubble are you living in? You don't see the damage of illegal immigration and the unwillingness to enforce immigration laws. You sir are the one who needs to be committed to Bellvue

See this is why you and your type need to leave this debate to adults, not a person in this long meandering thread has ever said that illegal immigration is not an issue that needs to be dealt with. When people like you get involved it became xenophobia and name calling. You have posted in this thread the most by far, do you think you have swayed one person besides the 2 or 3 who all ready agreed with you?

WRESTLINGFAN

08-13-2010, 07:24 AM

See this is why you and your type need to leave this debate to adults, not a person in this long meandering thread has ever said that illegal immigration is not an issue that needs to be dealt with. When people like you get involved it became xenophobia and name calling. You have posted in this thread the most by far, do you think you have swayed one person besides the 2 or 3 who all ready agreed with you?

A huge majority of the country is opposed to illegal immigration and does not want Amnesty, comprehensive immigration reform or whatever euphanism the politicians feed out. Its only Xenophobes who wants the law enforced. good luck with that

And the adults are Obama and Schumer and yes Dubya Yes like they are so intelligent and know how solve problems. Sure let those clods reward people who have snuck into the country with citizenship. Sure to hell with laws, come here have multiple children and the taxpayers will feed, clothe, house and babysit you and your family. The well has run dry. You can throw words like racism and Xenophobia out but its lip service, Im immune to those childish rants by people like you

It failed in 1986 when Mass amnesty was passed when there were 3 million illegals. As a result there are 20 million illegals. Pass another amnesty bill and watch the explosion of people who will flood into this country

Dont give me the soapbox story of the poor illegal coming here to feed his family. Thats the same comparison as someone robbing a 7 Eleven because his kids are starving but on a larger scale

I found it embarassing and disgusting that Mexicos president lectured this country about its immigration laws when his countrys are a thousand times more strict.

booster11373

08-13-2010, 07:29 AM

And the adults are Obama and Schumer and yes Dubya? Sure let those clods reward people who have snuck into the country with citizenship

As long as people like you are involved the problem will never go away but maybe you dont want to go away, otherwise where who would tell us what the age of consent in Mexico is. You can sleep soundly at night I'm sure knowing that you sir! are making America a better place to live one post at a time.

Serpico1103

08-13-2010, 07:35 AM

Does it really matter what size of the city is? So if its not from the Chicago Sun Times or WaPo its not relevant?

I have a clear understanding of the law and the 14th Ammendment has been abused by the open borders lobby to think that anyone born here is an automatic citizen when its intent was the exact opposite

Your insistence upon a certain original intent does not make it fact.
Prove it.
The only people excluded were ambassador's children, children of hostile forces, Indians, etc.
People with clear and continuing allegiance to another sovereign. If you do not see the difference between that category of people and illegal aliens than you are too simple to continue a debate with.

Dude!

08-13-2010, 07:38 AM

wrestlingfan...
why do you even bother?
these people are so
guilt-ridden (or mexican)
that they can't be persuaded
by facts and logic

Jujubees2

08-13-2010, 07:48 AM

wrestlingfan...
why do you even bother?
these people are so
guilt-ridden (or mexican)
that they can't be persuaded
by facts and logic

Are you calling Mexicans stupid?

WRESTLINGFAN

08-13-2010, 07:49 AM

Your insistence upon a certain original intent does not make it fact.
Prove it.
The only people excluded were ambassador's children, children of hostile forces, Indians, etc.
People with clear and continuing allegiance to another sovereign. If you do not see the difference between that category of people and illegal aliens than you are too simple to continue a debate with.

Read in bold. can't be any clearer thant that

WRESTLINGFAN

08-13-2010, 07:54 AM

Are you calling Mexicans stupid?

Quite the contrary.

Its our politicians who are stupid by allowing a group of people to come here for a free ride.

Serpico1103

08-13-2010, 07:56 AM

Illegal aliens are subject to the jurisdiction of their home countries. Wong Kims parents were in the steps to becoming citizens. Illegal aliens are exactly that. ILLEGAL!!!!! Cant be any clearer than that.

To clear up your error. Wong Kim SC case facts:

'That the said Wong Kim Ark was born in the year 1873, at No. 751 Sacramento street, in the city and county of San Francisco, state of California, United States of America, and [169 U.S. 649, 651] that his mother and father were persons of Chinese descent, and subjects of the emperor of China, and that said Wong Kim Ark was and is a laborer.

'That at the time of his said birth his mother and father were domiciled residents of the United States, and had established and enjoyed a permanent domicile and residence therein, at said city and county of San Francisco, state aforesaid.

'That said mother and father of said Wong Kim Ark continued to reside and remain in the United States until the year 1890, when they departed for China."

No steps toward citizenship were noted by the Court. Did your right wing buddies tell you that?

Serpico1103

08-13-2010, 07:58 AM

Read in bold. can't be any clearer that that

Holy shit. Here is a tip, when something seems so clear to you, but scholars are debating it. You are wrong!

Did the baby cross the border on the way out of the womb? The parents are illegal. The question is; does that status affect the baby's citizenship.
That is what is unclear. No one is saying that the parents automatically gain citizenship. What illegal act did the baby commit? Clear it up for me.

WRESTLINGFAN

08-13-2010, 08:05 AM

Holy shit. Here is a tip, when something seems so clear to you, but scholars are debating it. You are wrong!

Did the baby cross the border on the way out of the womb? The parents are illegal. The question is; does that status affect the baby's citizenship.
That is what is unclear. No one is saying that the parents automatically gain citizenship. What illegal act did the baby commit? Clear it up for me.

The child is inside an illegal alien. So the child should be considered illegal too

That is why they are called anchor babies because when they turn 21 they can sponsor their parents to become citizens.

Just wait until chain migration comes into fruition It will make Calcutta look like a paradise

Serpico1103

08-13-2010, 08:07 AM

The child is inside an illegal alien.

Wow. I'll take that as a surrender.

Willmore

08-13-2010, 08:14 AM

Just wait until chain migration comes into fruition It will make Calcutta look like a paradise

Maybe then we'll get a good curry place around here. I'm fucking starving.

WRESTLINGFAN

08-13-2010, 08:15 AM

Wow. I'll take that as a surrender.

What surrender? The person who hopped a fence or overstayed their visa isn't illegal ?

Willmore

08-13-2010, 08:18 AM

What surrender? The person who hopped a fence or overstayed their visa isn't illegal ?

You were raped by a Mexican. It happens. Move on.

WRESTLINGFAN

08-13-2010, 08:18 AM

The benefits of open borders.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/aug/12/la-area-is-prime-ground-for-gangs/

WRESTLINGFAN

08-13-2010, 08:19 AM

You were raped by a Mexican. It happens. Move on.

She looked like Selma Hayek

Willmore

08-13-2010, 08:20 AM

The benefits of open borders.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/aug/12/la-area-is-prime-ground-for-gangs/

If you're trying to make a coherent point, the Washington Times might not be a sound choice of a story link.

booster11373

08-13-2010, 08:20 AM

She looked like Selma Hayek

With every post you fail

Serpico1103

08-13-2010, 08:22 AM

What surrender? The person who hopped a fence or overstayed their visa isn't illegal ?

I am not talking about the person who came here illegally. No one is.
What is the immigration status of the baby? Your circular logic is tiring; "the baby is not a citizen because it is illegal, it is illegal because it is not a citizen."

Support your contention that a baby born here to parents other than ambassadors, hostile forces, and Indians is not granted birthright citizenship.
And not opinion pieces.

WRESTLINGFAN

08-13-2010, 08:23 AM

With every post you fail

That was a win for me

Jujubees2

08-13-2010, 08:25 AM

Seriously WF, what is your suggestion for dealing with the illegal immigration problem in the country today?

Willmore

08-13-2010, 08:25 AM

I am not talking about the person who came here illegally. No one is.
What is the immigration status of the baby? Your circular logic is tiring; "the baby is not a citizen because it is illegal, it is illegal because it is not a citizen."

Support your contention that a baby born here to parents other than ambassadors, hostile forces, and Indians is not granted birthright citizenship.
And not opinion pieces.

http://comps.fotosearch.com/comp/LIQ/LIQ115/student-hand-raised_~vl0013b066.jpg

Is it because they are brown?

Barnaby Jones

08-13-2010, 08:25 AM

I am not demonizing or calling them subhuman,

I know it sounds harsh but again the majority of illegals are from Latin America where customs like driving drunk, excessive drinking and molestation of young children is commonplace in their cultures

This is why people think you're xenophobic and have a limited worldview! You rattle off crap like this like it's a fact! It sounds harsh because it's hate-mongering garbage!

Willmore

08-13-2010, 08:26 AM

That was a win for me

Yes you are. Here's your ribbon.

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/3581/participant1.jpg

WRESTLINGFAN

08-13-2010, 08:26 AM

tanless1

08-13-2010, 08:29 AM

"Scholars" where to begin. Smart does not equal wisdom. 2 lawyers arguing opposite sides of 1 case. Is one more correct than the other ? Yes. Can you tell by the educational pedigree ? No , because education does not translate into integrity,honesty,....principles. does smart mean the judge will make the correct decision ? No.

WRESTLINGFAN

08-13-2010, 08:30 AM

Seriously WF, what is your suggestion for dealing with the illegal immigration problem in the country today?

Ending birthright citizenship. Denying any entitlements, welfare non related emergency care to illegals. Employer/Landlord sanctions with huge fines and jailtimes. Bringing our troops home from the mid east/AFPAK region and putting them on the border and simply enforcing current law.

If we simply denied the illegals any chance of housing, employment and entitlements many would just self deport

Jujubees2

08-13-2010, 08:36 AM

If we simply denied the illegals any chance of housing, employment and entitlements many would just self deport

Or would that drive them to crime?

tanless1

08-13-2010, 08:38 AM

Re-institute a guest worker program, and enforce it. One issue at a time.

Barnaby Jones

08-13-2010, 08:38 AM

If we simply denied the illegals any chance of housing, employment and entitlements many would just self deport

I agre that the immigration system needs reform and people that exploit illegals need to be cracked down on, but your expectations for an indefinite lock-down of the border is nuts! You complain about what illegals are costing the country (while always ignoring the economic boon they provide), and then support draconian measures that are going to be at least just as expensive! Do you have any comprehension of what it costs to deploy the military?

Serpico1103

08-13-2010, 08:39 AM

Where is a ruling that a child of an illegal is ?

Your position is that the 14th A's intent was to exclude children of illegals. I cited cases that contradicted that. No where in relevant case law is the immigration status mentioned other than diplomats and hostile forces.

Where is support for your contention?
All those sites you quote clearly manipulate the relevant rulings. I will gladly point it out to you.

Two rulings, by virtually the same justices, within 20 years of passage of the amendment, only excluded children of: Native Americans, hostile forces, and diplomats.

Those cases did not include hostile forces or diplomats, but the court's mention of it makes it dicta, persuasive material. Why did the court not include illegals? Or the children of Chinese, who at the time of the Wong case, could never become citizens (that included Wong Kim's parents)?

Please, help me.

WRESTLINGFAN

08-13-2010, 08:39 AM

Or would that drive them to crime?

There were tons of illegals leaving Arizona before most parts of the law were struck down. Maybe a small percentage of people would commit crimes but not on a large scale

Barnaby Jones

08-13-2010, 08:40 AM

Quite the contrary.

Its our politicians who are stupid by allowing a group of people to come here for a free ride.

Get this through your head: NOBODY IS GETTING A FREE RIDE.

WRESTLINGFAN

08-13-2010, 08:41 AM

I agre that the immigration system needs reform and people that exploit illegals need to be cracked down on, but your expectations for an indefinite lock-down of the border is nuts! You complain about what illegals are costing the country (while always ignoring the economic boon they provide), and then support draconian measures that are going to be at least just as expensive! Do you have any comprehension of what it costs to deploy the military?

At the height of the Iraq war we were spending about 10 billion a month. The cost would not be even close to that if they were on the border. Besides there are some bases already near the border. Ft Huachuca AZ is one of them

WRESTLINGFAN

08-13-2010, 08:43 AM

Get this through your head: NOBODY IS GETTING A FREE RIDE.

An illegal having children and not paying for them and then receiving foodstamps, welfare and housing vouchers is definitely a free ride.

Someone coming here and getting a 700% salary increase is a win for them.

Serpico1103

08-13-2010, 08:52 AM

Drafter of clause, explaining his meaning: This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons.- No mention of simple non-citizens, just ambassadors and diplomats.

Author of 13th A giving his meaning: "Can you sue a Navajo Indian in court? Are they in any sense subject to the complete jurisdiction of the United States? By no means. We make treaties with them, and therefore they are not subject to our jurisdiction. If they were, we wouldn't make treaties with them...It is only those persons who come completely within our jurisdiction, who are subject to our laws, that we think of making citizens; and there can be no objection to the proposition that such persons should be citizens."- only mentioning Indians, not all non-citizens.

Another Senator's view- Take the child of an ambassador. In one sense, that child born in the United States is subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, because if that child commits the crime of murder, or commits any other crime against the laws of the country, to a certain extent he is subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, but not in every respect; and so with these Indians.- Again, mentioning diplomats and Indians, but not immigrants.

Legislative intent.
These are the three main quotes from a site supporting your view WF, but I see them as clearly contradicting it.
http://www.14thamendment.us/articles/anchor_babies_unconstitutionality.html
There were immigrants at the time of passage. Their omission from the excluded classes during the debate was a mistake?

Please support your argument.
Out to lunch- literally