~ 2012 MLB Off-Season Thread ~

[hanso]

it's actually bitter sweet for me

as this build has actually been fun to watch and I'm not sure most of this couldn't have been done (similar players over time) without giving up so much

there are no guarantees with prospects, I get that, but man I was big on two of those guys going the other way...a third was just starting to get praise too. A hard throwing lefty that never gets hit and has great control at such a young age is valuable, just like the 5 tool guy they got for the OF/CF in the future (power still off it seems?)

If Romero gets it toghter your starting pitching looks solid.

[spoon]

Valentine is available! :devil2:

grrrrr

we already had our run in with that guy!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-hjeiOpLGTB8/TtZKsbySWFI/AAAAAAAAHSs/WiFvorFQYQY/s400/vstache.jpg

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[spoon]

Odds to win World Series

Before Trade After Trade

Toronto Blue Jays 35/1 14/1

Miami Marlins 40/1 100/1

Total Wins in the 2013 Regular Season - Toronto Blue Jays

Over/Under 87.5

Total Wins in the 2013 Regular Season - Miami Marlins

Over/Under 69.5

Will the Toronto Blue Jays make the Playoffs?

Yes +150

No -200

Total Wins in the 2013 Regular Season - Josh Johnson

Over/Under 13

Total Wins in the 2013 Regular Season - Mark Buehrle

Over/Under 12

Batting Average in the 2013 Regular Season - Jose Reyes

Over/Under .297

Stolen Bases in the 2013 Regular Season - Jose Reyes

Over/Under 37.5

Average Attendance for Miami Marlins Home Games

Over/Under 18,500

The true impact of this all.

[hanso]

Loria Only knows how to do it this way. Tear it down, then build.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/jon-heyman/20979584/loria-explains-deal-we-have-to-get-better--we-have-to-take-a-new-course

You know it's lopsided when one team sends cash. Would love for them to go after Mike Napoli who has roots here as does A-Rod who might help with Attendance

[spoon]

Loria Only knows how to do it this way. Tear it down, then build.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/jon-heyman/20979584/loria-explains-deal-we-have-to-get-better--we-have-to-take-a-new-course

You know it's lopsided when one team sends cash. Would love for them to go after Mike Napoli who has roots here as does A-Rod who might help with Attendance

the only money I saw reported a part of this trade was John Buck...is this reported somewhere? I only heard rumors.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Torii Hunter to Detroit.


D'Spy, comments on that ?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Loria Only knows how to do it this way. Tear it down, then build.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/jon-heyman/20979584/loria-explains-deal-we-have-to-get-better--we-have-to-take-a-new-course

You know it's lopsided when one team sends cash. Would love for them to go after Mike Napoli who has roots here as does A-Rod who might help with Attendance

If A Rod gets traded there, The park might have a few games of nearly full houses, but the novelty will wear off.


Baseball just doesn't fit in Florida

[disneyspy]

Torii Hunter to Detroit.


D'Spy, comments on that ?

i wouldve been more exited if this was 2009,not like the tigers to get someone on their way down

[brettmojo]

If A Rod gets traded there, The park might have a few games of nearly full houses, but the novelty will wear off.


Baseball just doesn't fit in Florida

There's no way he'd approve that trade now... If it ever even would have had a chance of happening anyway.

[razorboy]

Really happy for David Price. Congrats big man.

[Kevin]

Really happy for David Price. Congrats big man.


Both CY Youngs deserved it.

[Kevin]

So looking at this trade more...

I think its a pretty shitty one for the Jays.

It may turn out depending on the prospects to be one of the very worst in history.

Lets look at the 3 main guys.

Reyes.... He is what, 30 now? His main tools are his legs. combining age, and Artificial turf is death on legs, he will not be a productive player for very long.

Johnson... Makes a shit load, and just can't stay on the field. His injuries are very disconcerting for a SP. NO WAY I would even THINK about signing him to a long term deal.

Buerhrle... He is an OLD OLD OLD 33.... He has thrown a shit load of pitches in his career and is due to hit that proverbial wall real soon.

If those prospects pan out, this could go the other way... Not sink the Marlins, but Sink the Blue Jays for good.

I would be very worried if i were Spoon....

[cougarjake13]

if the blue jays win a title is it then worth it ??

[Kevin]

if the blue jays win a title is it then worth it ??

It is, but I don't see it happening.

Actually being a Yankee fan, I can't answer that question.

Maybe it would be to spoon, but to me no...

Not if it means it all falls apart and you are stuck in payroll hell for years and years.

Remember, they can't sweep it under the rug like the Yanks can.

[TripleSkeet]

if the blue jays win a title is it then worth it ??

The answer to that question is ALWAYS yes.

[Kevin]

The answer to that question is ALWAYS yes.

Yea, probably...

But if they don't this could be like I said one of the worst deals in history.

Normally I would say it could be just as shitty for both teams, but it saved the Marlins 100s of millions so it could never be just as bad for both.

[spoon]

Torii Hunter to Detroit.


D'Spy, comments on that ?

mine are told ya

[spoon]

Both CY Youngs deserved it.

they are finally getting the meaning of the Cy down of late with Felix and RADickey

[spoon]

Yea, probably...

But if they don't this could be like I said one of the worst deals in history.

Normally I would say it could be just as shitty for both teams, but it saved the Marlins 100s of millions so it could never be just as bad for both.

to me it's not even the savings...they took a run at it last year with the new park as the Marlins only can and then unload FREE FUCKING AGENTS mainly to get a shit load of prospects, very very good ones at that

I take issue in that in this MLB you sign them yourselves AND keep the prospects in the off season...moves like this should only exist if lopsided with a pure sal dump and or mid year to add pieces or fill holes due to injuries for a playoff contender...and to a much lesser extent. They got a lot for very little (Johnson) of their own pieces. Yet the lineup the Jays will have for a few years, and let's face it Bautista needs to go for it now, is fast, can mash in the middle and finally has a #1 in Reyes and Lawrie is best suited at the #2 spot.

Think about this now, in Toronto's hitting friendly park...

1) Reyes
2) Lawrie
3) Bautista
4) Encarnacion
5) Rasmus
6) JPA/D'rraund/Buck
7) Lind
8) Bonafacio/Izturis
9) Gose/Davis/Sierra


That's a FAST lineup and needs to produce runs more than just swing for the fences.

The rotation is pretty damn solid now too, as Romero goes from a #1 starter to a #3/4...Morrow down a lot too.

Johnson R
Buehrle L
Morrow R
Romero L
Drabek/Hutchinson/Happ (RRL)

[spoon]

Yea, probably...

But if they don't this could be like I said one of the worst deals in history.

Normally I would say it could be just as shitty for both teams, but it saved the Marlins 100s of millions so it could never be just as bad for both.

not true...playoffs for Toronto would be huge...it isn't a championship or bust town for MLB, and they moved some prospects for three sure things Kev. It's not that bad, I just don't see how they got so much for a dump like that and players the Jays could very well have gotten last year for money alone and Johnson this coming offseason. I HATE losing Marisnick and Nicolino, but you have to say that changes the Jays overnight, not 3 years later when EE, Bautista...two core guys are winding down. They have to go now for a few years, adjust later. And the farm system is still quite loaded to be honest. Remember AA has been stockpiling for a few years now with moves and crafty handling of the rules/compensation setups. He works the system like no other right now, even though they made a ton of rule changes to stop him and others that started to copy him.

[spoon]

The answer to that question is ALWAYS yes.

yes, but the Jays are a long way from that right now and have almost zero playoff experience on the roster

seriously, Reyes Buehrle and who? Some bit part players and bullpen vagabonds?

you can see how much they needed some vets to help lead here too...especially at the top of this young rotation.

[Kevin]

I agree, If all pans out, this trade is a big one for the Jays, even if the prospects all become good.

However, those issues I gave are very legit and real and have a decent shot of happening.

If Johnson can't stay healthy, and Reyes leg issues re surface because of the turf.

And to a lesser extent, Buerhle... Who you should look no further than Doc Hallady when it comes to what happens to pitchers in early to mid 30s when they log in alot of pitches.

With the amount of money you put into these players, its very damaging for just about any other team but maybe 2, 3 in MLB

I get why the Jays did it.

You had to take a gamble seeing The O's getting good and other teams in the AL being very good. And lets face it, Yanks and Sox can always re tool in no time because of money.

But I don't think it is the right gamble, because i think there is a good chance that it can really blow up in their faces.

Yea, you and alot of people have said that the Jays have a really good farm, but we have heard this for years, and to this date, they have not delivered.

Not like the Rays and now the O's at least.



.

[spoon]

I agree, If all pans out, this trade is a big one for the Jays, even if the prospects all become good.

However, those issues I gave are very legit and real and have a decent shot of happening.

If Johnson can't stay healthy, and Reyes leg issues re surface because of the turf.

And to a lesser extent, Buerhle... Who you should look no further to Doc Hallady when it comes to what happens to pitchers in early to mid 30s when they log in alot of pitches.

With the amount of money you put into these players, its very damaging for just about any other team but maybe 2, 3 in MLB

I get why the Jays did it.

You had to take a gamble seeing The O's getting good and other teams in the AL being very good. And lets face it, Yanks and Sox can always re tool in no time because of money.

But I don't think it is the right gamble, because i think there is a good chance that it can really blow up in their faces.

Yea, you and alot of people have said that the Jays have a really good farm, but we have heard this for years, and to this date, they have not delivered.

Not like the Rays and now the O's at least.

.

I disagree on a LOT here. First, Buehrle is a constant, much like Halladay but to a lesser extent. Halladay had a shoulder injury and battled the hr a ton this past year and still ended with 11-8 rec with a very light hitting/injured Philly team. He'll bounce back, and injuries happen, and have to him when young too. Buehrle wins 13+ almost every fucking year, on shit teams like last year too.

As for the farm talk, Toronto's has SUCKED until AA finally took over a few years back. So to say what you did just isn't factual or close. His first order of biz was to go ape shit on lining up scouts all over, paying better to get good ones, and invest a WHOLE lot in acquiring draft picks, young players and a TON of arms/players up the middle (CF/SS/C). Now this has recently shown many dividends in the development of Hech, Lawrie, Gose (trade), Romero, Morrow (acquisition), Alvarez (just moved here), Marisnick/Nicolino (just moved here too), JP Arencibia, Janssen and some great "can't miss" guys like d'Arnaud coming this year.

And this move had little, no zero to do with Baltimore having a dream season which they won't repeat in my mind. It has everything to do with the next step for the Jays based on their plan and where their players and needs are. I made a strong case for playoff exp and vet leadership, CHECK. I made a strong case for top rotation and pressure relief for a young staff, CHECK. I also made a case for a true leadoff man for that reason in itself, but also to allow for Lawrie to be moved to the #2 slot, CHECK. And finally, how do you beat bombers and crazy lineups in the playoffs? Pitching and Speed/Produced Run...CHECK.

If anything Kev, the Jays did this now more based on what I stated above as the main reason, but also tied to the fact the powers that be in said division aren't that strong right now, and even TB might lose some REALLY huge pieces AGAIN...this time it could finally kill them too.

It's not a perfect trade and the Marlins got plenty, but they have most of those needs filled NOW, and both Marisnick and Nicolino are at least 2-3 years away, while the other kid is more like 3-4 years removed. That's not in line with where they are right now, or think they are.

[Kevin]

I disagree on a LOT here. First, Buehrle is a constant, much like Halladay but to a lesser extent. Halladay had a shoulder injury and battled the hr a ton this past year and still ended with 11-8 rec with a very light hitting/injured Philly team. He'll bounce back, and injuries happen, and have to him when young too. Buehrle wins 13+ almost every fucking year, on shit teams like last year too.

As for the farm talk, Toronto's has SUCKED until AA finally took over a few years back. So to say what you did just isn't factual or close. His first order of biz was to go ape shit on lining up scouts all over, paying better to get good ones, and invest a WHOLE lot in acquiring draft picks, young players and a TON of arms/players up the middle (CF/SS/C). Now this has recently shown many dividends in the development of Hech, Lawrie, Gose (trade), Romero, Morrow (acquisition), Alvarez (just moved here), Marisnick/Nicolino (just moved here too), JP Arencibia, Janssen and some great "can't miss" guys like d'Arnaud coming this year.

And this move had little, no zero to do with Baltimore having a dream season which they won't repeat in my mind. It has everything to do with the next step for the Jays based on their plan and where their players and needs are. I made a strong case for playoff exp and vet leadership, CHECK. I made a strong case for top rotation and pressure relief for a young staff, CHECK. I also made a case for a true leadoff man for that reason in itself, but also to allow for Lawrie to be moved to the #2 slot, CHECK. And finally, how do you beat bombers and crazy lineups in the playoffs? Pitching and Speed/Produced Run...CHECK.

If anything Kev, the Jays did this now more based on what I stated above as the main reason, but also tied to the fact the powers that be in said division aren't that strong right now, and even TB might lose some REALLY huge pieces AGAIN...this time it could finally kill them too.

It's not a perfect trade and the Marlins got plenty, but they have most of those needs filled NOW, and both Marisnick and Nicolino are at least 2-3 years away, while the other kid is more like 3-4 years removed. That's not in line with where they are right now, or think they are.

Hey, you know your team better and have every right to think this trade will pan out.

I don't think it will.

Only time will tell who is right on it.

[hanso]

the only money I saw reported a part of this trade was John Buck...is this reported somewhere? I only heard rumors.

4 Mil is the cash

Speaking of John Buck is he going to play like he did when he was there before? He sure didn't here.

[cougarjake13]

It is, but I don't see it happening.

Actually being a Yankee fan, I can't answer that question.

Maybe it would be to spoon, but to me no...

Not if it means it all falls apart and you are stuck in payroll hell for years and years.

Remember, they can't sweep it under the rug like the Yanks can.

it's not Yankee money but isn't the Rogers people who own it pretty loaded ?

[newport king]

I feel like espn is trying to explain to everyone why Trout should win mvp, with his WAR rating. Cabrera won the triple crown and his team went to the ws. Pretty cut and dry to me

[Kevin]

it's not Yankee money but isn't the Rogers people who own it pretty loaded ?

Every MLB owner has 3 times the money the Steinbreners have. But 5 time less total revenue.

It's a business, you can't expect them to put money into the team that they will not get back

They run their teams like any business. And you have to.

[underdog]

I feel like espn is trying to explain to everyone why Trout should win mvp, with his WAR rating. Cabrera won the triple crown and his team went to the ws. Pretty cut and dry to me

But the triple crown contains two less than meaningful stats now, compared to other stats available. Overall, it's easily argued that Trout had a better season.

[TripleSkeet]

But the triple crown contains two less than meaningful stats now, compared to other stats available. Overall, it's easily argued that Trout had a better season.

What less than meaningfull stats would that be?

[Kevin]

But the triple crown contains two less than meaningful stats now, compared to other stats available. Overall, it's easily argued that Trout had a better season.

Hey it still hasn't been done in decades. Meaningless or or no meaningless stats. I Until it gets done more, but triple Crown is automatic MVP.

[hanso]

Every MLB owner has 3 times the money the Steinbreners have. But 5 time less total revenue.

It's a business, you can't expect them to put money into the team that they will not get back

They run their teams like any business. And you have to.

A winning product draws butts in seats. TV $ is getting better for them. Someone from my teams FO (owner maybe) brought up he like seeing games on TV better. Not a good thing to say after the first year of a new stadium.

[spoon]

Hey, you know your team better and have every right to think this trade will pan out.

I don't think it will.

Only time will tell who is right on it.

that's just it Kev, there is no right or wrong on this, it was just time to up the ante and try

so for that, it almost had to be done

just as firing Norv Turner doesn't promise SD and its fans a title, much less more success...but it has to be done at this stage, if not earlier

and the definition here of "pan out" is up in the air completely

to me, it's not even close to the same thing a yankee fan would come to expect from its team over the years via unlimited resources and filling almost any need that comes up. toronto isn't even close and usually takes the scraps of the league to fill important positions, worse with it's holes throughout the year.

[spoon]

4 Mil is the cash

Speaking of John Buck is he going to play like he did when he was there before? He sure didn't here.

no bc at this point he's the backup and probably a moving piece if anyone has any interest.

it's JPA/Buck tandem, Buck getting 50 or so starts until d'Arnaud is ready and then BOTH he and JPA are trade bait

personally JPA has a TON more upside and value, but Buck might be help to a team in need at the position in say Texas as part of a package to another Blue Jay move. They love guys with power overall, and both do have it at different career stages in Buck and JPA.

[spoon]

it's not Yankee money but isn't the Rogers people who own it pretty loaded ?

yes they are, but this isn't their primary biz and truth be told the first time they have ACTUALLY opened up the purse strings. the ownership has often said they would, but when it was the right time...I have some issues with that over the last two years, meaning a top line pitcher and lead off man would have made Toronto a much better team and they were close enough talent wise to become a decent playoff picture player. Yet I can't argue that Toronto isn't a whole lot closer today. I just thought it would clearly take pressure off and help mold guys like Romero and Morrow (among others) in the rotation...and last year's debacle with Romero kind of backs it up. The guy has some wicked stuff, he just lost all confidence and felt the need to be perfect every week bc of his ace matchup every week.

[spoon]

I feel like espn is trying to explain to everyone why Trout should win mvp, with his WAR rating. Cabrera won the triple crown and his team went to the ws. Pretty cut and dry to me

agreed

the kid will win plenty too, and probably multiple mvps in the future to be honest

[spoon]

But the triple crown contains two less than meaningful stats now, compared to other stats available. Overall, it's easily argued that Trout had a better season.

I get your point, and honestly wouldn't take any other positional player right now before him if given the shot. The kid has everything, minus the Harper attitude baggage too.

[A.J.]

The only solution is co-MVP: like the NL did in 1979 for Keith Hernandez and Pops Stargell!

[spoon]

Mvps

[spoon]

that POS Selig may nix this trade as if they didn't know what Loria was all about after Montreal

if this gets nixed I'll be pissed SIMPLY bc there have been WAY WORSE deals overall and "the best interest of baseball" line here is bullshit

it didn't work for Miami, Toronto is finally putting some money into the team again in an ultra tough division (Wild Card has plenty to do with this too Kev...forgot to add that) and that new stadium and all those players didn't even draw last season so who gives a fuck about baseball where they obviously don't either. at least in Toronto people show up in a big way when they put a good team on the field...they had multiple 4 million plus years back when they were competitive. The Marlins couldn't do that with fee flat screen and sushi nights every week...or should I say hard candy and hearing aid promotions (that might actually work).

[A.J.]

Selig take a principled stance? I'm not holding my breath. He never should have let Loria own a team again and should have driven him out like he did to Frank McCourt.

[spoon]

Selig take a principled stance? I'm not holding my breath. He never should have let Loria own a team again and should have driven him out like he did to Frank McCourt.

true enough, and part of my point

yet principled stance on what? the marlins making a choice to move bought assets and one key piece for three high level kids (RHP/LHP and 5 tool prospect CF), an mlb ready power arm coming into his own soon (Alavarez), one d stud kid at short with speed (Hech), one solid vet shortstop (Escobar) and a vet catcher (Mathis for Buck is just a wash)?

This all for Reyes, Johnson, Buehrle, Buck and Bonafacio? I'm sorry, they lost ONE player that was theirs of value, as Bonafacio is just another burner that can't get on base...we have that in Davis and it's not that good. Buck is just a throw in, as they must have just wanted that contract albatross gone. It's really not that high at 6 million, but for his stats it is.

So that leaves truly Reyes (bought and cost nothing), Buehrle (bought and cost nothing) and the one piece they actually did the grooming/development on in Johnson...and he was on the path to leave after this year for huge money anyway.

So I ask to Marlin fans and baseball people overall, what's not to LOVE with this deal for Miami if you take the bullshit knee jerk emotional reaction out of it? I as a Toronto fan should have more reservations clearly, but if nixed it will piss me off in many ways regardless.

Even if it fails, it should be allowed to go through as it's clearly not JUST some salary dump, in fact it might be a brilliant strategy to build up your farm system in the future if you can manage the contracts right and get trade partners to part with kids for players they should have just high balled the year prior for no cost in terms of players.

Yet having Selig jump in NOW, with THIS trade I would sue the fuck out him, MLB and push this fuck out of baseball for good. I'm tired of him being a biased cunt for a clear ruling class in MLB, and it's not a few teams with history that is the product, it's the league as a whole. The sooner MLB, its owners and MLBPA figure this out, the sooner cities will keep their home grown stars and have team pride in some markets again like KC, Pitt (how'd that end up again fools?) and others beyond a window where they push for a few years and then dump just like the Marlins. It's simply not sustainable in 75% of the markets.

[A.J.]

yet principled stance on what?

You answered that in your last paragraph. Basically, it Selig's inconsistency in what he does and says -- and who he does it to.

[spoon]

You answered that in your last paragraph. Basically, it Selig's inconsistency in what he does and says -- and who he does it to.

yah but my argument isn't that he is principled, but that this deal is not an issue and stepping in to make a move would be the OPPOSITE of rational commish work and in line with his biased bullshit approach to MLB and its needs

to me your post alluded to the fact that if he were to act here it would be odd and a good principled take on the trade

[spoon]

Since midseason, the Marlins also have traded shortstop Hanley Ramirez to the Dodgers, right-hander Anibal Sanchez and infielder Omar Infante to the Tigers and closer Heath Bell to the D-backs. Reyes, Buehrle and Bell were signed as free agents last winter.

The Commissioner said he can see the situation from both perspectives.

"I am aware of the anger (among some Marlins fans)," Selig said. "I'm also aware that in Toronto, they're very happy. But I'm sensitive to (the reaction in Miami). We're doing great, but I have a great sensitivity to fans and people in areas. Remember, my career started because the Milwaukee Braves went to Atlanta and I never forgot the hurt that I felt and everybody around. So I'm not insensitive to that. I've lived through it.

"I've talked to two baseball people who actually have an interesting view on this trade," Selig said. "They think that [Miami], in terms of young players, did very well. These are two independent baseball people. So I want to think about it and I want to review it. I want to be my usual painstaking, cautious, slow, conservative self in analyzing it.

"In a trade where it's just for cash, that's a different story. That's easy. Other than that, clubs have to make their own decisions. And that's not up to the Commissioner, by the way. But I will talk to a lot of baseball people. We'll talk about all those things. The questions are fair about the Marlins' fans."

Selig was asked how the Blue Jays-Marlins trade differs from the August deal in which the Red Sox sent Adrian Gonzalez, Josh Beckett and Carl Crawford to the Dodgers, lowering their payroll in the process. He said that deal was reviewed and that it was a "fair analogy."

Both bolded points are solid...one I just made above in this very thread. However, this fan reaction dialogue bullshit is disturbing from fucking Selig, seeing as he is trying to identify with it despite his moves since day one until now on issues like this. I really never liked this guy, but what commish is ever good at this point? It's never REALLY about the fan, give me a fucking break. It's about how to milk said fans and create revenue and work for the owners' needs over all else.

[spoon]

the simple nixing of this trade could very well impact the game in Canada once and for all

the bottom line is scary too, as Loria can impact BOTH Canadian franchises in very terrible ways oddly enough

I truly think this won't go over well in Toronto despite there being a shot getting the kids back is the better move for Toronto...it's the perception, no the reality of the MLB's interest and focus on this trade, and lack of giving a shit past those clear reasons this is even being looked into...the other trades were approved and done by now and then some.

[A.J.]

the bottom line is scary too, as Loria can impact BOTH Canadian franchises in very terrible ways oddly enough.

Wow -- I hadn't even thought of that.

Loria would be as welcome in Canada as Art Modell was in Cleveland.

[spoon]

mlb writer from Toronto Jon Lott on the issue...

Selig: "In the end, I'll do what I've done in other past situations." Translation: nothing.


:lol:

[spoon]

Meanwhile, Forbes estimated earlier this year that the Marlins were worth $450-million — $300-million more than Loria paid for them 10 years ago.

If Selig had anything on his agenda other than making owners as much money as possible, he would step in. That doesn’t mean vetoing the trade, but it does mean taking a stand for baseball fans in Miami.

The Marlins project to have an opening day payroll of about $34-million, barely more than what the New York Yankees will pay Alex Rodriguez next season. It would be their lowest since 2008, and well below the $59.5 million Oakland payroll that was the lowest in the majors last season.

Wow that's crazy and brings us back to the salary floor/roof argument for MLB. This guy is just a fucking joke of an owner in this area, it was clear in Montreal and with the Marlin's stadium ordeal. Just how he's an actual owner again is unreal to me.

[spoon]

A sad story that may ultimately have a good result if it truly marks the end of taxpayers footing the bill for rich MLB franchise owners and getting bs returns.

Oakland Stadium? (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1410436-oakland-as-hopes-for-a-new-stadium-just-took-a-marlin-like-dive)

[brettmojo]

What less than meaningfull stats would that be?

Derp derp sabermetrics derp derp

[spoon]

this shit again

<iframe width="595" height="335" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/UXRrXtpZtTk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[spoon]

I disagree on a LOT here. First, Buehrle is a constant, much like Halladay but to a lesser extent. Halladay had a shoulder injury and battled the hr a ton this past year and still ended with 11-8 rec with a very light hitting/injured Philly team. He'll bounce back, and injuries happen, and have to him when young too. Buehrle wins 13+ almost every fucking year, on shit teams like last year too.

As for the farm talk, Toronto's has SUCKED until AA finally took over a few years back. So to say what you did just isn't factual or close. His first order of biz was to go ape shit on lining up scouts all over, paying better to get good ones, and invest a WHOLE lot in acquiring draft picks, young players and a TON of arms/players up the middle (CF/SS/C). Now this has recently shown many dividends in the development of Hech, Lawrie, Gose (trade), Romero, Morrow (acquisition), Alvarez (just moved here), Marisnick/Nicolino (just moved here too), JP Arencibia, Janssen and some great "can't miss" guys like d'Arnaud coming this year.

And this move had little, no zero to do with Baltimore having a dream season which they won't repeat in my mind. It has everything to do with the next step for the Jays based on their plan and where their players and needs are. I made a strong case for playoff exp and vet leadership, CHECK. I made a strong case for top rotation and pressure relief for a young staff, CHECK. I also made a case for a true leadoff man for that reason in itself, but also to allow for Lawrie to be moved to the #2 slot, CHECK. And finally, how do you beat bombers and crazy lineups in the playoffs? Pitching and Speed/Produced Run...CHECK.

If anything Kev, the Jays did this now more based on what I stated above as the main reason, but also tied to the fact the powers that be in said division aren't that strong right now, and even TB might lose some REALLY huge pieces AGAIN...this time it could finally kill them too.

It's not a perfect trade and the Marlins got plenty, but they have most of those needs filled NOW, and both Marisnick and Nicolino are at least 2-3 years away, while the other kid is more like 3-4 years removed. That's not in line with where they are right now, or think they are.

Hey, you know your team better and have every right to think this trade will pan out.

I don't think it will.

Only time will tell who is right on it.

that's just it Kev, there is no right or wrong on this, it was just time to up the ante and try

so for that, it almost had to be done

just as firing Norv Turner doesn't promise SD and its fans a title, much less more success...but it has to be done at this stage, if not earlier

and the definition here of "pan out" is up in the air completely

to me, it's not even close to the same thing a yankee fan would come to expect from its team over the years via unlimited resources and filling almost any need that comes up. toronto isn't even close and usually takes the scraps of the league to fill important positions, worse with it's holes throughout the year.




This quote from the business section of Canada's Globe and Mail. It speaks to much of what I put out there earlier on this move and it's timing, with a focus on the economic timing of it all.

While the team’s play had disappointed fans, the club’s attendance increased 15 per cent last season, and revenue was higher than expected. Some marketable players, like Brett Lawrie and José Bautista, were attracting fans across the country. Meanwhile, divisional rivals the New York Yankees and Boston Red Sox looked vulnerable for the first time in years, and MLB had just concluded television deals that would put about $25-million extra in each team’s pocket. Suddenly, spending more on players looked like a smart investment and a chance to capitalize on fortunate events. In the words of a source familiar with the trade: “The banana was ripening.”

A few weeks ago, Rogers management cleared the way for Jays’ president Paul Beeston and general manager Alex Anthopoulos to take the payroll as high as $120-million for the season if necessary, according to the source. Mr. Anthopoulos went out to look for players, and soon found a willing seller in Jeffery Loria, owner of the Marlins, who seemed eager to unload some team members with big contracts. The two concluded the trade this week, even as the Red Sox tried to poach a couple of the Florida players, not realizing Mr. Loria was interested in a much bigger transaction.

I included all the other posts in our conversation for reference.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I think a problem for baseball in Florida for both franchises is fan base. I looked on baseballreference.com and the Rays had an AL worst attendance of 1,559,681 even though they were contenders in the AL east. In 2009 their attendance was 1,874,962 which was 11th out of the 14 AL teams and that was the year after they won the ALCS


Miami had an attendance of 2,219,444 which was 12th out of 16. Even after the new name, stadium and signings. Now Im sure the poor record along with trading Hanley, Sanchez and others were factors as well


Interesting article on how taxpayers were fucked over in regards to the new ballpark


http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/marlins/2012/11/13/marlins-con-fans-who-built-their-new-stadium/1703665/

[Kevin]

Its a mistake putting a sports franchise in Fla, period.

Besides the U of Miami.

Even the heat as good as they are don't really get too much excitement.

Hell when they had that celebration signing, they got 6l fucking people there.

That happens in NY or Bos or anywhere else, you get at least 60k.

Its the worst sports town in the world.

Alot of it being there is alot of people from other states there, so there is not alot of true Fla fans.

[underdog]

What less than meaningfull stats would that be?

batting average and RBI. Batting average is more meaningful, but RBI is totally dependent on your teammates.

[underdog]

Hey it still hasn't been done in decades. Meaningless or or no meaningless stats. I Until it gets done more, but triple Crown is automatic MVP.

Winning Rookie of the Year and MVP in the same season has only been twice. It's far more rare.

[underdog]

I get your point, and honestly wouldn't take any other positional player right now before him if given the shot. The kid has everything, minus the Harper attitude baggage too.

I had no dog in the fight. They were both worthy of winning. Either way would have been fine.

[Kevin]

Winning Rookie of the Year and MVP in the same season has only been twice. It's far more rare.

That makes absolutely zero sense.

One is play and stats based and one is just award based.

[underdog]

That makes absolutely zero sense.

One is play and stats based and one is just award based.

I just felt like arguing. I really don't care who won.

But to say it was a no brainer either way is crazy.

[spoon]

Its a mistake putting a sports franchise in Fla, period.

Besides the U of Miami.

Even the heat as good as they are don't really get too much excitement.

Hell when they had that celebration signing, they got 6l fucking people there.

That happens in NY or Bos or anywhere else, you get at least 60k.

Its the worst sports town in the world.

Alot of it being there is alot of people from other states there, so there is not alot of true Fla fans.

Especially those Miami Marinos...they fucking suck so loud people in Georgia hear them.

Faggot isotoner wearing fucks in the 90 degree and humidity? What's wrong with that state?? Get an election right and perhaps you deserve an MLS team...MAYBE.

[Kevin]

Especially those Miami Marinos...they fucking suck so loud people in Georgia hear them.

Faggot isotoner wearing fucks in the 90 degree and humidity? What's wrong with that state?? Get an election right and perhaps you deserve an MLS team...MAYBE.

They are even terrible here.

They rival Cowboy and Steeler fans in just pure eck value.

[hanso]

true enough, and part of my point

yet principled stance on what? the marlins making a choice to move bought assets and one key piece for three high level kids (RHP/LHP and 5 tool prospect CF), an mlb ready power arm coming into his own soon (Alavarez), one d stud kid at short with speed (Hech), one solid vet shortstop (Escobar) and a vet catcher (Mathis for Buck is just a wash)?

This all for Reyes, Johnson, Buehrle, Buck and Bonafacio? I'm sorry, they lost ONE player that was theirs of value, as Bonafacio is just another burner that can't get on base...we have that in Davis and it's not that good. Buck is just a throw in, as they must have just wanted that contract albatross gone. It's really not that high at 6 million, but for his stats it is.

So that leaves truly Reyes (bought and cost nothing), Buehrle (bought and cost nothing) and the one piece they actually did the grooming/development on in Johnson...and he was on the path to leave after this year for huge money anyway.

So I ask to Marlin fans and baseball people overall, what's not to LOVE with this deal for Miami if you take the bullshit knee jerk emotional reaction out of it? I as a Toronto fan should have more reservations clearly, but if nixed it will piss me off in many ways regardless.

Even if it fails, it should be allowed to go through as it's clearly not JUST some salary dump, in fact it might be a brilliant strategy to build up your farm system in the future if you can manage the contracts right and get trade partners to part with kids for players they should have just high balled the year prior for no cost in terms of players.

Yet having Selig jump in NOW, with THIS trade I would sue the fuck out him, MLB and push this fuck out of baseball for good. I'm tired of him being a biased cunt for a clear ruling class in MLB, and it's not a few teams with history that is the product, it's the league as a whole. The sooner MLB, its owners and MLBPA figure this out, the sooner cities will keep their home grown stars and have team pride in some markets again like KC, Pitt (how'd that end up again fools?) and others beyond a window where they push for a few years and then dump just like the Marlins. It's simply not sustainable in 75% of the markets.

If a team wants to overspend on players what does it matter if it's through a trade or FA?


Wow that's crazy and brings us back to the salary floor/roof argument for MLB. This guy is just a fucking joke of an owner in this area, it was clear in Montreal and with the Marlin's stadium ordeal. Just how he's an actual owner again is unreal to me.

He has spent 500 M

[A.J.]

Melky to the Jays? (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1411782-melky-cabrera-signs-2-year-deal-with-toronto-blue-jays?hpt=hp_t3)

Look at those Jays - throwing all this money around. How can weaker teams like my Red Sox possibly compete with that?? :devil2:

[cougarjake13]

Melky to the Jays? (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1411782-melky-cabrera-signs-2-year-deal-with-toronto-blue-jays?hpt=hp_t3)

Look at those Jays - throwing all this money around. How can weaker teams like my Red Sox possibly compete with that?? :devil2:

it's not fair either


as the only Canadian team they have the entirety of Canada to pull fans and money from

it's a monopoly I tell ya and something needs to be done right quick

it's ruining the sport

[spoon]

If a team wants to overspend on players what does it matter if it's through a trade or FA?




He has spent 500 M

point one, bc it costs you future assets/prospects and more to do it via trade

point two, he did now spend 500 million, the tax payers paid that much. Loria is on the hook for ~ 164 million, less than the amount he just cut in player salary AFTER getting his precious stadium

[spoon]

Melky to the Jays? (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1411782-melky-cabrera-signs-2-year-deal-with-toronto-blue-jays?hpt=hp_t3)

Look at those Jays - throwing all this money around. How can weaker teams like my Red Sox possibly compete with that?? :devil2:

yah I'm not a fan of this deal AT ALL, even if he does hit and play well

as most of you know by now I HATE cheaters, especially those that try to hide it by going as far as creating a fake website....THEN after getting caught with both he takes the high road

fuck this guy, I have no love for him or this situation



as for you joke about throwing money around...HA! they have two decades to make up for, much less two decades of lost great players as well. I just LOVE listening to the WFAN and ESPN of late with yank fans saying this trade HAS to be nixed for the good of the Marlin fan. WHAT A FUCKING JOKE!

[spoon]

from what I hear, it's Reyes returning from vacation in DUBAI! that is holding up this trade

really Reyes, Dubai?

[Kevin]

from what I hear, it's Reyes returning from vacation in DUBAI! that is holding up this trade

really Reyes, Dubai?

José Bin Reyes?

I read somewhere that he is going to lose 8mil a year in tax hits on this trade.

DAMN YOU OBAMA!

[spoon]

José Bin Reyes?

I read somewhere that he is going to lose 8mil a year in tax hits on this trade.

DAMN YOU OBAMA!

Yah that was all over the place and pretty much overblown...he'll surely lose some more, but not nearly 8 million from what I read. This before the W tax cuts expire at year's end and it's even closer. Tack on the fact that the dollar and the loonie are pretty much the same right now and you have a perfect storm for the Jays to return to the fight in the AL East...two decades later. I'm too fucking loyal a fan.

[keithy_19]

Yah that was all over the place and pretty much overblown...he'll surely lose some more, but not nearly 8 million from what I read. This before the W tax cuts expire at year's end and it's even closer. Tack on the fact that the dollar and the loonie are pretty much the same right now and you have a perfect storm for the Jays to return to the fight in the AL East...two decades later. I'm too fucking loyal a fan.

And what would sport be without those like you? Bravo, I say. Bravo.

[NickyL0885]

Mets selling R.A. Dickey CY Young t-shirts already. Hoping fans buy them before they trade him and the shirts become useless. I see what you're doing there, Mets!

[keithy_19]

Mets selling R.A. Dickey CY Young t-shirts already. Hoping fans buy them before they trade him and the shirts become useless. I see what you're doing there, Mets!

No way they trade him, you rascal you.

[NickyL0885]

No way they trade him, you rascal you.

They are the Mets. They always do the wrong thing. Why couldn't I have liked good teams? Mets, Jets, Islanders.......it's the Trifecta of Suckage!

[keithy_19]

They are the Mets. They always do the wrong thing. Why couldn't I have liked good teams? Mets, Jets, Islanders.......it's the Trifecta of Suckage!

You like to be happy once in a few decades rather than once in awhile?

[spoon]

Mets selling R.A. Dickey CY Young t-shirts already. Hoping fans buy them before they trade him and the shirts become useless. I see what you're doing there, Mets!

and no offense to a true good guy like RAD, but why the fuck would you want that shirt?

even worse is the DJ3K shit...mainly bc it's so fucking singular in purpose and selfish at this point for DJ

[cougarjake13]

They are the Mets. They always do the wrong thing. Why couldn't I have liked good teams? Mets, Jets, Islanders.......it's the Trifecta of Suckage!



are you a nets fan per chance ?

cause that'd complete the quartet of suckage

[NickyL0885]

are you a nets fan per chance ?

cause that'd complete the quartet of suckage

Yes I am. Sigh......though I don't care too much for basketball.

[spoon]

Yes I am. Sigh......though I don't care too much for basketball.

that's probably bc it sucks

[A.J.]

as for you joke about throwing money around...HA! they have two decades to make up for, much less two decades of lost great players as well. I just LOVE listening to the WFAN and ESPN of late with yank fans saying this trade HAS to be nixed for the good of the Marlin fan. WHAT A FUCKING JOKE!

You mean those same Marlin fans who suffered in the 2003 World Series?

[A.J.]

from what I hear, it's Reyes returning from vacation in DUBAI! that is holding up this trade

really Reyes, Dubai?

Maybe he wanted to go skiing AND dune crashing.

[hanso]

Melky to the Jays? (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1411782-melky-cabrera-signs-2-year-deal-with-toronto-blue-jays?hpt=hp_t3)

Look at those Jays - throwing all this money around. How can weaker teams like my Red Sox possibly compete with that?? :devil2:

Cheaters get pay raises

And I read the Sox will have huge payroll.

[cougarjake13]

You mean those same Marlin fans who suffered in the 2003 World Series?


and 97 also
o the humanity

[spoon]

You mean those same Marlin fans who suffered in the 2003 World Series?

The Jays silly

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Cheaters get pay raises

And I read the Sox will have huge payroll.

They have the cash to go for Hamilton.


Imagine him in that town? He might fall off the wagon in a week

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Juan Pierre inks 1 year deal with Miami


How long before they trade him ?

[spoon]

Juan Pierre inks 1 year deal with Miami


How long before they trade him ?

after 1 year I bet he's gone!

[cougarjake13]

Juan Pierre inks 1 year deal with Miami


How long before they trade him ?


July 31st he's outta there

[Earlshog]

Juan Pierre inks 1 year deal with Miami


How long before they trade him ?

He was pretty good for Philly last year

[hanso]

He was pretty good for Philly last year

What did he do just swipe bags? That's what I remember him for last time he was here.

They could get a whole lot of former Marlins if they wanted to.

[cougarjake13]

What did he do just swipe bags? That's what I remember him for last time he was here.

They could get a whole lot of former Marlins if they wanted to.

had 37 steals which was like 5th best

Ricky's not happy

[hanso]

Wanted to see about Kelly Johnson and may as well leave this for Spoon

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1414100-mlb-trade-rumors-2012-all-three-blue-jays-catchers-are-being-shopped

As he brought up the catchers rumors are going on over them. Don't like BR from so much wrong stuff I have seen from them, something to look at anyhoo.

[razorboy]

Man, the Blue Jays really like to rehire their old managers. (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20121120&content_id=40371532&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb)

At least there is no Ted Lilly this time around.

[cougarjake13]

Man, the Blue Jays really like to rehire their old managers. (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20121120&content_id=40371532&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb)

At least there is no Ted Lilly this time around.


I just always assumed no one wanted to go there Cept for the guys who already had been

[A.J.]

Cookie Rojas was unavailable?

[spoon]

Wanted to see about Kelly Johnson and may as well leave this for Spoon

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1414100-mlb-trade-rumors-2012-all-three-blue-jays-catchers-are-being-shopped

As he brought up the catchers rumors are going on over them. Don't like BR from so much wrong stuff I have seen from them, something to look at anyhoo.

A lot of what I expect to hear about, but not sure what trigger will actually be pulled.

[spoon]

Man, the Blue Jays really like to rehire their old managers. (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20121120&content_id=40371532&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb)

At least there is no Ted Lilly this time around.

Or Shea with his chalk...yet I'm just not sure on this. He amassed a decent record with completely shit teams, so perhaps it could work. However, he is, or at least was, a caustic bastard.

[spoon]

I just always assumed no one wanted to go there Cept for the guys who already had been

that's just silly

[razorboy]

Or Shea with his chalk...yet I'm just not sure on this. He amassed a decent record with completely shit teams, so perhaps it could work. However, he is, or at least was, a caustic bastard.

Clubhouse rules, no whiteboards and any player who mentions sinking ships surrenders a game check.

[cougarjake13]

that's just silly



well hear me out I wasn't being a dick about it


yeh some guys make take it to get a first gig as a mgr but knowing how much yanks and sawx spend ur going in knowing its tough to compete and u may not have a lot of success even if u get like 85-90 wins

[hanso]

If the team buts Gibbons out there they will kill the blue jays or sumin tss double fist pump biotch

[cougarjake13]

If the team buts Gibbons out there they will kill the blue jays or sumin tss double fist pump biotch



maybe the typo ate ur joke

[hanso]

maybe the typo ate ur joke

Gibbon is same

oh doe ment put not but

[spoon]

Expo on Expos! (http://www.sporcle.com/games/notaratface/did-they-ever-play-for-the-montreal-expos)

Ok this is some AWESOME off season fun.

Be honest on this and let's see who wins.

Just type a Y or N for yes and no in every box for the players listed based on if you think they ever played for the Expos.

[spoon]

37/60 for me

not bad, but not as good as I thought I'd do

[Kevin]

Expo on Expos! (http://www.sporcle.com/games/notaratface/did-they-ever-play-for-the-montreal-expos)

Ok this is some AWESOME off season fun.

Be honest on this and let's see who wins.

Just type a Y or N for yes and no in every box for the players listed based on if you think they ever played for the Expos.

32-60

Mediocre, just like the Yankees will be!

[spoon]

ah poor kev

I could only WISH/DREAM of the spanks going through two decades like the Jay fans just endured...and it's not over until I actually see it on the field!

[spoon]

More fun... (http://www.sporcle.com/games/rockgolf/how_logo_can_you_gogo)

I only got 16 of 25 on this one. Man is this one tough and it's timed too so be aware. Some of the names are so nondescript I had no clue. One isn't even the right color to me.

[spoon]

Another goofy game. (http://www.sporcle.com/games/g/mostteamchamps)

23/31 here...mostly missed the NBA teams and lesser champ total teams overall

[Kevin]

More fun... (http://www.sporcle.com/games/rockgolf/how_logo_can_you_gogo)

I only got 16 of 25 on this one. Man is this one tough and it's timed too so be aware. Some of the names are so nondescript I had no clue. One isn't even the right color to me.

same

[Kevin]

Another goofy game. (http://www.sporcle.com/games/g/mostteamchamps)

23/31 here...mostly missed the NBA teams and lesser champ total teams overall

19

[cougarjake13]

Expo on Expos! (http://www.sporcle.com/games/notaratface/did-they-ever-play-for-the-montreal-expos)

Ok this is some AWESOME off season fun.

Be honest on this and let's see who wins.

Just type a Y or N for yes and no in every box for the players listed based on if you think they ever played for the Expos.


got 27 out of 42 before time ran out

[cougarjake13]

Another goofy game. (http://www.sporcle.com/games/g/mostteamchamps)

23/31 here...mostly missed the NBA teams and lesser champ total teams overall



29 out of 31

didnt realize the bruins and Pitt pirates had so many titles

[cougarjake13]

More fun... (http://www.sporcle.com/games/rockgolf/how_logo_can_you_gogo)

I only got 16 of 25 on this one. Man is this one tough and it's timed too so be aware. Some of the names are so nondescript I had no clue. One isn't even the right color to me.



21 out of 25

missed the penguins sharks grizzlies and ravens


colors all looked ok Cept for that penguins one

[MHasegawa]

-46 of 60 on the expo

-22 of 25 on the logo

-31 of 31 on the champs, aced it.

[spoon]

-46 of 60 on the expo

-22 of 25 on the logo

-31 of 31 on the champs, aced it.

come on you two!?

did you look shit up while you did it!?

if you truly scored that high, I'm impressed

[TripleSkeet]

I got 34 of 60 on the Expo one.

[spoon]

for Gvac

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-pu2s1z3NU7U/T68H3sB6M5I/AAAAAAAAAeU/lVZt0zTFLuY/s500/phillips.gif

[TripleSkeet]

19 on 25 for the logos

22 of 35 on the titles

[spoon]

States without a pro team quiz...guess wrong and it's over... (http://www.sporcle.com/games/acabrrr999/no-sport-us-states-clickable-minefield)

I messed up the first time just thinking it would take a guess away and mark it as wrong, but it stops the quiz.

The next time I took my time and selected those I was more sure on and then actually got them all!

[spoon]

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/3600009/newjays.0_standard_709.0.jpg

love that they included the banned pit bull of Buehrle!

ha, melk bag "steroid free"

we will see

[deliciousV]

States without a pro team quiz...guess wrong and it's over... (http://www.sporcle.com/games/acabrrr999/no-sport-us-states-clickable-minefield)

I messed up the first time just thinking it would take a guess away and mark it as wrong, but it stops the quiz.

The next time I took my time and selected those I was more sure on and then actually got them all!

got it on the 3rd try, I kept wanting the Royals to be in the wrong state.

[spoon]

got it on the 3rd try, I kept wanting the Royals to be in the wrong state.

that was my VERY last state...but the blues saved my butt and helped me rule out the OTHER KC

[A.J.]

More fun... (http://www.sporcle.com/games/rockgolf/how_logo_can_you_gogo)

I only got 16 of 25 on this one. Man is this one tough and it's timed too so be aware. Some of the names are so nondescript I had no clue. One isn't even the right color to me.

17/25.

[A.J.]

Another goofy game. (http://www.sporcle.com/games/g/mostteamchamps)

23/31 here...mostly missed the NBA teams and lesser champ total teams overall

28/31. I forgot about the Islanders, Oilers and the Colts.

[A.J.]

States without a pro team quiz...guess wrong and it's over... (http://www.sporcle.com/games/acabrrr999/no-sport-us-states-clickable-minefield)

I messed up the first time just thinking it would take a guess away and mark it as wrong, but it stops the quiz.

The next time I took my time and selected those I was more sure on and then actually got them all!

Got them all right.

[cougarjake13]

come on you two!?

did you look shit up while you did it!?

if you truly scored that high, I'm impressed


I did it from my phone
I just have a lot of useless sports info in my head

[cougarjake13]

States without a pro team quiz...guess wrong and it's over... (http://www.sporcle.com/games/acabrrr999/no-sport-us-states-clickable-minefield)

I messed up the first time just thinking it would take a guess away and mark it as wrong, but it stops the quiz.

The next time I took my time and selected those I was more sure on and then actually got them all!



that one was pretty easy

got em all

only prob I had was which Carolina had the panthers and hurricanes

[cougarjake13]

rays extend longoria 6 more years to 2022

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Marvin Miller, The man who started the MLBPA and changed baseball dies at age 95


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/marvin-miller--the-man-who-changed-sports-forever--dead-at-95-203146437.html

[A.J.]

Marvin Miller, The man who started the MLBPA and changed baseball dies at age 95


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/marvin-miller--the-man-who-changed-sports-forever--dead-at-95-203146437.html

I loved him in Adam-12.

[hanso]

rays extend longoria 6 more years to 2022

Chat is about him staying healthy, as if that has ever happened to this point

[razorboy]

Chat is about him staying healthy, as if that has ever happened to this point

He's a seven WAR third baseman. Even with injury concerns he just took a deal way under market value. The thing is that his injury last season probably made this deal possible for the Rays. Both parties are taking a risk, but the Rays' front office has a pretty remarkable track record with the calculated risks they're willing to take. The funniest thing is after his first contract right after he was called up and now this extension Longo has to be public enemy number one with the MLBPA and any agent other than his own.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I saw a few teams are interested in Giancarlo Stanton. I wonder if Miami will complete the fire sale

[cougarjake13]

He's a seven WAR third baseman. Even with injury concerns he just took a deal way under market value. The thing is that his injury last season probably made this deal possible for the Rays. Both parties are taking a risk, but the Rays' front office has a pretty remarkable track record with the calculated risks they're willing to take. The funniest thing is after his first contract right after he was called up and now this extension Longo has to be public enemy number one with the MLBPA and any agent other than his own.





I've always wanted to hear a guy say yeh I took less money so they culd spend it on other guys to make the team better and he actually did
fucking cool just hope they get a new stadium or there's no way they can pay for him or price

[spoon]

I saw a few teams are interested in Giancarlo Stanton. I wonder if Miami will complete the fire sale

no way, they actually do have a plan in the end...and he's a young piece they are building around/with

look at the kids they got, how they fit in the future and the people they shipped off and their timeline. I'm not making an excuse for their awful owner, AGAIN, but I can see their "direction" albeit out of nowhere but seemingly driven by low attendance despite spending a ton and of course lack of success last year at a HUGE price.

[spoon]

HOF List 2012

Sandy Alomar Jr. Shawn Green Jack Morris Mike Stanton
Jeff Bagwell Roberto Hernandez Dale Murphy Alan Trammell
Craig Biggio Ryan Klesko Rafael Palmeiro Larry Walker
Barry Bonds Kenny Lofton Mike Piazza Todd Walker
Jeff Cirillo Edgar Martinez Tim Raines David Wells
Royce Clayton Don Mattingly Reggie Sanders Rondell White
Roger Clemens Fred McGriff Curt Schilling Bernie Williams
Jeff Conine Mark McGwire Aaron Sele Woody Williams
Steve Finley Jose Mesa Lee Smith
Julio Franco Sammy Sosa

ooof

there is a whole lot of testosterone on that list

My guess on this class is Piazza, Schilling and Morris makes it. Biggio close?

[Petey Barnum]

ooof

there is a whole lot of testosterone on that list

My guess on this class Schilling .
Its the baseball Hall of Fame Not the fat fuck, load mouth hall of fame

[cougarjake13]

Its the baseball Hall of Fame Not the fat fuck, load mouth hall of fame



he's got 2 rings and decent stats so schill has a chance


and sadly we have to say this now and for awhile if not forever

never linked to ped's

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Which cap does Schilling wear if he goes in?


You can make a case that he won 2 WS with Boston, Had some good years with AZ however he made a name for himself in Philly

[cougarjake13]

bj upton signs with braves

5 for 75

[cougarjake13]

Which cap does Schilling wear if he goes in?


You can make a case that he won 2 WS with Boston, Had some good years with AZ however he made a name for himself in Philly



sadly it's not up to the player and unless the player has incredible success in lesser years for another club they usually go with whatever team he was with longest


that's why gary carted went in as an expo ( also cause there wasn't any and he's prolly the only one who'd go in as one )

and dave Winfield as a padre

[WRESTLINGFAN]

MLB did that because Boggs wanted to go in as a then Devil Ray if I'm correct

[cougarjake13]

MLB did that because Boggs wanted to go in as a then Devil Ray if I'm correct



yeh he was trying to but Winfield went in 2001 Boggs not til 2005 so they didnt do it to Winfield bc of Boggs

[MHasegawa]

ooof

there is a whole lot of testosterone on that list

My guess on this class is Piazza, Schilling and Morris makes it. Biggio close?

Biggio without a doubt, 3k hits for his career and 7 times All Star at 2 positions (C 2B)

[Kevin]

yeh he was trying to but Winfield went in 2001 Boggs not til 2005 so they didnt do it to Winfield bc of Boggs

Winfield was worse.

I think Boggs is from Tampa.

Winfield was paid 1mil to go in as a Pad...

[spoon]

clearly he should go in as an indian

[Kevin]

clearly he should go in as an indian

As a Redsox closer...

[TripleSkeet]

States without a pro team quiz...guess wrong and it's over... (http://www.sporcle.com/games/acabrrr999/no-sport-us-states-clickable-minefield)

I messed up the first time just thinking it would take a guess away and mark it as wrong, but it stops the quiz.

The next time I took my time and selected those I was more sure on and then actually got them all!

Just did this one. Got them all with 3 1/2 minutes to spare. The only one I had to think about was Kansas. Left that til the end.

[Kevin]

Just did this one. Got them all with 3 1/2 minutes to spare. The only one I had to think about was Kansas. Left that til the end.

4.00 left. Yea Kansas too. Because stupid me thought of Kansas city..

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Jon Heyman tweeted Russell Martin and the Pirates agree to a deal

[cougarjake13]

Jon Heyman tweeted Russell Martin and the Pirates agree to a deal



he must really love aj Burnett

[Kevin]

Jon Heyman tweeted Russell Martin and the Pirates agree to a deal

Good.

Get all these low 200 hitting swing for the fences bums off this team.

Hope Swisher and Granderson are next,

[brettmojo]

Good.

Get all these low 200 hitting swing for the fences bums off this team.

Hope Swisher and Granderson are next,

Swisher, yes.
Granderson... Not so much...

There's no way they'll send him away unfortunately.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I wonder if the Yanks bring up Romine next year .


Burnett had a decent year . Maybe Martin will hit over .300

[spoon]

Good.

Get all these low 200 hitting swing for the fences bums off this team.

Hope Swisher and Granderson are next,

hey, that .200 hitting swing earned all-star status in 2011...:wallbash:

in other news, bdc/steve from bayside found stuffing ballot boxes with full yankee rosters

[spoon]

I wonder if the Yanks bring up Romine next year .


Burnett had a decent year . Maybe Martin will hit over .300

eh, Burnett has shown great stuff many times in the past while Martin has just declined since his last few years in LA

[Kevin]

eh, Burnett has shown great stuff many times in the past while Martin has just declined since his last few years in LA

Lets face it. That joke of a park ads at least 5hrs to your total.

His power should be waaaaay down in pitt.

He turned down 3 25 last year.

Good move...

[spoon]

Mr. Popularity! Yet does Florida really care? (http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/11/25/3112034/in-popularity-poll-miami-marlins.html)

[NickyL0885]

Eddie C on WFAN broke news that Wright has agreed to a 7 year deal. $$ is not known, but he will be the highest paid player in Mets history.

[NickyL0885]

UPDATE: 7 years, $122 million. But he has this year as well for $16 million. So, in total 8 years, $138 million.

[Kevin]

Had to do it.

You are probably hate it year 5+ but, had to do it.

[hanso]

HOF List 2012

Sandy Alomar Jr. Shawn Green Jack Morris Mike Stanton
Jeff Bagwell Roberto Hernandez Dale Murphy Alan Trammell
Craig Biggio Ryan Klesko Rafael Palmeiro Larry Walker
Barry Bonds Kenny Lofton Mike Piazza Todd Walker
Jeff Cirillo Edgar Martinez Tim Raines David Wells
Royce Clayton Don Mattingly Reggie Sanders Rondell White
Roger Clemens Fred McGriff Curt Schilling Bernie Williams
Jeff Conine Mark McGwire Aaron Sele Woody Williams
Steve Finley Jose Mesa Lee Smith
Julio Franco Sammy Sosa

If you go by the Jays model of cheaters get pay raises then all juicers get in

[A.J.]

Denard Span comes home. (http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/8691791/minnesota-twins-send-denard-span-washington-nationals-minor-league-pitcher)

[spoon]

so much for that fat Jeter pic being real

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A9MuzzDCEAAw7cp.jpg:large

Didn't think he'd let that happen, injury or not.

[brettmojo]

I wonder if Reynolds got a gift basket.

[cougarjake13]

so much for that fat Jeter pic being real

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A9MuzzDCEAAw7cp.jpg:large

Didn't think he'd let that happen, injury or not.




prolly what they did was catch a shot where when he was walking the shirt puffed out giving the illusion he gained weight

[El Mudo]

Denard Span comes home. (http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/8691791/minnesota-twins-send-denard-span-washington-nationals-minor-league-pitcher)

Such a great deal. Get a guy comparable to BJ Upton for $54 million dollars less. Heart you, Mike Rizzo.

Now make that deal with the Rays to get James Shields.

[El Mudo]

Nats sign Dan Haren for one and thirteen.

Classic low risk/high reward move. Commit to the guy for one year, and if he *is* irrevocably injured, then you're done with him. Dude has multiple seasons of 6+ WAR on his resume, and if he can get back to that, wowzers.

[spoon]

Such a great deal. Get a guy comparable to BJ Upton for $54 million dollars less. Heart you, Mike Rizzo.

Now make that deal with the Rays to get James Shields.

Upton has more power, is a better base stealer but not so good in the locker room. Yet you can see where the contract difference comes from. Span doesn't K as much, but a lot of that is on the top of the lineup type needs of him versus Upton being locked into the middle of the order charged to drive in runs.

[A.J.]

Upton has more power, is a better base stealer but not so good in the locker room. Yet you can see where the contract difference comes from. Span doesn't K as much, but a lot of that is on the top of the lineup type needs of him versus Upton being locked into the middle of the order charged to drive in runs.

I haven't seen someone squander so much talent since Derrek Coleman.

[A.J.]

Nats sign Dan Haren for one and thirteen.

Classic low risk/high reward move. Commit to the guy for one year, and if he *is* irrevocably injured, then you're done with him. Dude has multiple seasons of 6+ WAR on his resume, and if he can get back to that, wowzers.

Where did you see that?

[El Mudo]

Where did you see that?

Twitter. Deal's pending a physical.

Here's the Post article (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/nationals-journal/wp/2012/12/04/nationals-dan-haren-agree-to-terms/)

Upton has more power, is a better base stealer but not so good in the locker room. Yet you can see where the contract difference comes from. Span doesn't K as much, but a lot of that is on the top of the lineup type needs of him versus Upton being locked into the middle of the order charged to drive in runs.

Sure. I'm also happy the Twins were so cheap to sign him to that tiny deal. Span is also a significantly better fielder, to the point where it makes up most of the value in WAR you get from Upton's power.

[A.J.]

Stras, Gio, J-Zim, Detwiler and Haren? Not bad!

I'd have liked to have kept Lannan too but maybe he can make a start somewhere else.

[El Mudo]

Stras, Gio, J-Zim, Detwiler and Haren? Not bad!

I'd have liked to have kept Lannan too but maybe he can make a start somewhere else.

Not that I'm expecting Haren to give 6+ WAR again (too much mileage), but if he puts up a 3 or 4, or rather, in between what Edwin Jackson (2.7) and Zimmermann gave them last year (3.5), at a fraction of what Zack Greinke would cost in years/term, that's a massive bargain. It will also help that he'll be pitching against some pretty weak lineups in the NL East outside of the Barves.

As much as I'd love to have Zack Greinke, they don't really NEED him enough to throw 20 million plus at him for six years or however much he's going to end up costing.

[spoon]

so who will be better next year?

Grienke, Dickey or Sanchez?

[spoon]

And I like the Haren move plenty, as he wasn't even that bad last year despite it being one of his worst of his career...yet amazingly he still upped his salary, even if just a little. The free agent market is crazy overpriced, one only needs to look at Martin's price to realize that much.

[spoon]

Not a fan of trading so much talent to get people though, versus a free agent here and there. As once again the Jays actually give up a ton to get some players, versus what the big teams NEVER give up to get plenty too on the rare occasion they actually make a trade versus just loading/reloading up.

It's the reason the red wings kept their talent and stayed atop the standings in hockey, cap or not later on, as they kept most of their kids or cheap young talent and only picked up free agents to stock positions in the off season. The Avs decided to make moves later and at huge costs to their farm team and salary structure later once the cap came in. They made much more legitimate exchanges of talent, but cost them their cheaper and talented future and once the cap came they were not going to be able to sign them all due to a huge core of home grown talent later in their careers (more expensive). So all the players they acquired via trades to fill more time sensitive and specific needs, they either lost or kept at a cost. The kids were gone no matter what, the same kids that help balance your salary structure. So the cap absolutely CRUSHED the Avs, despite not just signing away other teams players like detroit. In the end detroit kept most of their talent too, making the approach much more effective in many ways once the cap was instituted.

[Kevin]

so who will be better next year?

Grienke, Dickey or Sanchez?

Mark Sanchez.

[spoon]

he's great with a clipboard?

[Kevin]

he's great with a clipboard?

He i probably terrible at that too.

[spoon]

Nice!

Thanks to the tireless efforts of Blue Jays fans and reporters alike, original Blue Jays radio broadcaster Tom Cheek will finally be honored by the Baseball Hall of Fame. The Hall named Cheek their 2013 Ford C. Frick award winner, seven years after Cheek died from complications due to cancer.
Cheek is famous for calling 4306 consecutive Blue Jays games and his signature “Touch’em all Joe!” call after Joe Carter’s walkoff home run to secure the Jays second consecutive World Series title in 1993.

Ronnie B will love this...ear candy. (http://snd.sc/XQQNbg)


:wub:

[A.J.]

Ha ha! You should call in with that.

[spoon]

Ha ha! You should call in with that.

do it for me AJ

dedicate the radio shark type clip to me!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Robin yount shoots Dale Sveum


http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/8712089/dale-sveum-chicago-cubs-manager-shot-robin-yount-milwaukee-brewers-hall-famer-offseason-hunting-accident

[Kevin]

Robin yount shoots Dale Sveum


http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/8712089/dale-sveum-chicago-cubs-manager-shot-robin-yount-milwaukee-brewers-hall-famer-offseason-hunting-accident


He probably gave him the green light without even looking

[El Mudo]

So apparently the Twins dealt Denard Span because they felt Ben Revere was their CF of the future.

I guess the "future" there is like 5 days, because they've just dealt Revere to the Phillies.

[spoon]

So apparently the Twins dealt Denard Span because they felt Ben Revere was their CF of the future.

I guess the "future" there is like 5 days, because they've just dealt Revere to the Phillies.

<a href="http://www.gifbin.com/984167"><img src="http://gifs.gifbin.com/052010/1273486979_chicks-sliding.gif" alt="funny gifs" /></a>

[El Mudo]

Twins are getting Vance Worley and a prospect back in return.

[spoon]

Twins are getting Vance Worley and a prospect back in return.

they no have nucky thompson

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Rangers and Phillies discussing Michael Young trade


http://espn.go.com/dallas/mlb/story/_/id/8719968/michael-young-being-discussed-trade-texas-rangers-philadelphia-phillies

[Earlshog]

Rangers and Phillies discussing Michael Young trade


http://espn.go.com/dallas/mlb/story/_/id/8719968/michael-young-being-discussed-trade-texas-rangers-philadelphia-phillies

Young rejected it... He sucks anyway. I like Revere move, hes a spark plug, young, and will be low price for a couple years. When its time for him to get paid all the older players will be off the books (well except for Howard)

[Earlshog]

And I like the Haren move plenty, as he wasn't even that bad last year despite it being one of his worst of his career...yet amazingly he still upped his salary, even if just a little. The free agent market is crazy overpriced, one only needs to look at Martin's price to realize that much.

its crazy, and not the big named players getting big bucks, I get that. But the mid tier guys like Gutries, and Victorinos, Martin as you said, etc. Im mean good for them, I could care less, just hate when we hear the owners bitch how they don't make any money.

[TripleSkeet]

they no have nucky thompson

This made me literally LOL.

Personally I like the trade. I was a Worley fan but Id rather have a good defensive centerfield that hits around .300 and can steal 50 bases than a quality 4th starter.

A kid I grew up with did sports TV in Minnesota (he just transferred to Pittsburgh last month) and hes been saying the Phillies made out huge on the Revere trade. We do really need a 3B though.

[spoon]

This made me literally LOL.

Personally I like the trade. I was a Worley fan but Id rather have a good defensive centerfield that hits around .300 and can steal 50 bases than a quality 4th starter.

A kid I grew up with did sports TV in Minnesota (he just transferred to Pittsburgh last month) and hes been saying the Phillies made out huge on the Revere trade. We do really need a 3B though.

go get that valuable commodity Arod!

[TripleSkeet]

go get that valuable commodity Arod!

If the Yankees would pay most of his salary Id take him. At least he bats righty. With our short porch in left hed probably hit 50 homers.

[spoon]

its crazy, and not the big named players getting big bucks, I get that. But the mid tier guys like Gutries, and Victorinos, Martin as you said, etc. Im mean good for them, I could care less, just hate when we hear the owners bitch how they don't make any money.

well there are two factors driving up prices outside of the normal inflation that free agency brings

1- the influx of ~ 45 million coming to every team yearly simply based on new tv contracts/deals overall

2- the changes to the international free agent market workings, compensation pick setups and overall draft/free agency policy

bottom line is EVERY team will have that extra money to work with and less area to bring in new talent...hence more money/bidding wars for all levels of players right now

yet guys like Victorino and Guthries are quite capable players and worth decent coin

Victorino will always be a very solid OF, and projects to play very well at either corner. his speed is above average and he sets the table well with fair if not good power when healthy as well. he isn't that old either.

Guthries just benefits from the pitching market as it's always high, yet his era wasn't so bad and under 5-8 million of late is the running rate on average on the mound

Martin, well that one is hilariously high...even if behind the plate.

[spoon]

If the Yankees would pay most of his salary Id take him. At least he bats righty. With our short porch in left hed probably hit 50 homers.

he's a pos

no good comes of him being around, unless you like roids, pettiness and countless surgery

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Young rejected it... He sucks anyway. I like Revere move, hes a spark plug, young, and will be low price for a couple years. When its time for him to get paid all the older players will be off the books (well except for Howard)

ESPN Reported that young waived his no trade clause and will be traded to the Phillies

[TripleSkeet]

Not only that, but it looks like Texas is going to be paying $10 mill of his salary next year. I like this move. I know he had a bad year last year but hes an upgrade over what we have. Plus he can play a decent amount of time, while giving Frandsen some playing time when he needs a rest or is playing 2nd base to give Utley a breather. Maybe he can convince his hunting buddy Hamilton to join him.

[cougarjake13]

thtatd be interesting lineup if they got josh

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Greinke to Dodgers 6 years 147 million

[Kevin]

145mil for a guy with anxiety disorder..

Good work.

They are still finishing 3rd.

[razorboy]

145mil for a guy with anxiety disorder...

It's almost as bad as giving 186 million to a guy with an eating disorder.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

145mil for a guy with anxiety disorder..

Good work.

They are still finishing 3rd.

Anxiety disorder going to a big market team. I know the Angels are in the same area and he was there half a season but SoCal belongs to the Dodgers


Not sure how the writers/media are in LA but if its like Boston and he doesn't live up that contract, it aint gonna look pretty

[Kevin]

It's almost as bad as giving 186 million to a guy with an eating disorder.

One that has won a world series and a cy young...

So, if that goes as well for the dodgers, thats huge

[razorboy]

One that has won a world series and a cy young...

So, if that goes as well for the dodgers, thats huge

Well, he's halfway there I guess, since they both won a Cy Young with their previous teams.

[spoon]

145mil for a guy with anxiety disorder..

Good work.

They are still finishing 3rd.

anxiety disorder...so what?

he's obviously controlling it and has shown solid value to be the top pitching free agent this year

nobody is worth what they are getting this offseason or any for that matter, yet it's fucking comical to see you get pissy about signings like these that were invented the yanks

don't worry kev, your team will do something stupid real soon...189 million my fucking ass

[spoon]

One that has won a world series and a cy young...

So, if that goes as well for the dodgers, thats huge

he already has a CY too, just not the world series bc he started in KC and had yet to move to a money team JUST LIKE CC (clev and cy before going to NY). Hell, they both even made a quick pitstop in Epotown too...so yah, plenty of comparisons

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Greinke doesnt have a no trade clause but he can opt out after year 3

[NickyL0885]

With the Rays-Royals trade, the Mets must be salivating that they can take the Rangers for whatever they want. Rangers want a SP, and they lost on on their top 2 targets. Sadly, this probably means the end of Dickey in a Mets uniform. But i hear we can get this kid Olt for him. But the Mets want Olt and Leonys Martin, both of whom are good hitting prospects. Olt is a 3B though, which means to the OF he goes.

[cougarjake13]

With the Rays-Royals trade, the Mets must be salivating that they can take the Rangers for whatever they want. Rangers want a SP, and they lost on on their top 2 targets. Sadly, this probably means the end of Dickey in a Mets uniform. But i hear we can get this kid Olt for him. But the Mets want Olt and Leonys Martin, both of whom are good hitting prospects. Olt is a 3B though, which means to the OF he goes.



we need of anyway

[Kevin]

anxiety disorder...so what?

he's obviously controlling it and has shown solid value to be the top pitching free agent this year

nobody is worth what they are getting this offseason or any for that matter, yet it's fucking comical to see you get pissy about signings like these that were invented the yanks

don't worry kev, your team will do something stupid real soon...189 million my fucking ass

I Don't doubt it....

And I am not getting pissy about any signing.

It never helped the Yanks..

They have one 1 title since they started spending big money....

I think it started with the Giambi signing in 02?

The 90s Yanks were always like 2nd 3rd in Payroll behind the O's and I forget who else..

Most of their guys were either bargain guys in brocius, trades like Tino and home grown guys.

Brian Cashman is the most overrated exec ever.

His titles were hand delivered by Stick and had a payroll at least 50% times higher than any team and got 1 fucking title off it, and that one he had to spend like 500mil in one off season to get.

All we have heard about are these top prospects they are either traded and most are terrible or they get hurt or suck balls.

You hear about all these catchers and pitchers for like 5 years and none are seen ever.

[spoon]

kev, that's the most backassed biased view of the past and the impact of finances on MLB and specifically the yankees I have EVER SEEN!

did the yanks have MORE home grown talent back then, not really...as most are just leaving now as well, and MANY were INTERNATIONAL FREE AGENTS you were willing to outspend by a mile on to offset the draft.

now let's take a quick look see at the rotation additions, oh yah, almost all of it...Clemens, Wells, Key, Cone, Mussina, Rogers, Gooden, ...Jesus I can go forever kev. Even with players like Boggs (paid so much at almost 40!) and let's not forget that the only teams that could make a move for high priced/soon to much higher priced players was, you guessed it, DA SPANKS. so yah, that's your Tino/Wettland type "trades" right there.

Looking at the Tino trade just makes me realize that the Mariners are the new Royals for this era with the yankees. WTF did they get for a player coming into his fucking prime!? Hitchcock and Russ DAVIS!? one could easily argue that the yankees got the best two players in this trade (Jeff Nelson and Tino)...sounds like another great move the Mariners made with Ichiro right? I'm sure this Montero trade will explode in their faces more this year when the kid comes back and throws 99 all over the place. Montero has already shown he's not solid at all, especially when playing DH bc he SUCKS behind the plate and in the field. And it's much harder to be of the same value hitting like that at DH. Not a good sign when your put at DH at fucking 22/23!

Jesus kev, you simply amaze me.

[spoon]

Tim Raines, Cecil Fielder, Reuben Sierra, Irabu, Nelson (twice), Wells (twice), Knoblauch, Brosius, Chili Davis, El Duque, Stanton, Justice, Hill, Canseco....on and on and on, much less NOT winning doesn't damn the system or the results of almost always having your piece of the pie/shot for a decade after the run too.

they all don't have to pan out either, and didn't...but why care when you can just add more and fill any hole with an vet presence or d specialist, whatever you need!

[TripleSkeet]

Phils offered Hamilton 3 years for $80 million today.

[Earlshog]

Wow! Hope they land him

[razorboy]

Three years seems like a good term for someone with his injury concerns. 27 million AAV, not so much.

[deliciousV]

Cincinnati gets Choo and Donald from the Indians, nice pickup. Where will Phillips bat though?

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20121211&content_id=40619292&vkey=pr_cin

[TripleSkeet]

Actually its 3 years for $85 million. Jon Heymans reporting they are very close to a deal.

[spoon]

Cincinnati gets Choo and Donald from the Indians, nice pickup. Where will Phillips bat though?

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20121211&content_id=40619292&vkey=pr_cin

should be at least 2 hole or later, but you have shitty leadoff material

[spoon]

Actually its 3 years for $85 million. Jon Heymans reporting they are very close to a deal.

to me that's a shocker!

his market was hurt by his past, but mostly by his recent lack of caring and shitty finish last season...TERRIBLE timing to leave that stink of ambivalence and failure on good stats that smell like tattoos and rum

[spoon]

In last 6 months, Dogers have spent $600+ million on players. Rays have spent $638M total on opening day payrolls in their 15-yr existence.
espn

[deliciousV]

should be at least 2 hole or later, but you have shitty leadoff material

as a leadoff hitter, Choo has a .307 average and .386 on-base percentage that includes marks of .300 and .374 when leading off an innning.

Don't sound too bad to me.

[TripleSkeet]

to me that's a shocker!

his market was hurt by his past, but mostly by his recent lack of caring and shitty finish last season...TERRIBLE timing to leave that stink of ambivalence and failure on good stats that smell like tattoos and rum

Apparently it was a hoax. Fake twitter account..

[spoon]

http://media.masslive.com/redsox_impact/photo/10817221-large.jpg

2013 Toronto Blue Jays (my take)

Lineup:
1 - Reyes (SS) switch
2 - Lawrie (3B) right
3 - Bautista (RF) right
4 - Encarnacion (1B) right
5 - Lind (DH) left
6 - Cabrera (LF) switch
7 - Rasmus (CF) left
8 - Arencibia (C) right
9 - Bonafacio/Izturis (2B) switch/switch

I think this is same as Bautista's lineup preference. :P

Bench would consist of: Cooper, Izturis/Bonafacio, Davis and Buck.

Rotation:
1 - Johnson (RHP)
2 - Buehrle (LHP)
3 - Morrow (RHP)
4 - Romero (LHP)
5 - Happ (RHP)

Pen: Cecil, Jeffress, Rogers, Loup, Lincoln, Delabar, Oliver, Santos (setup/closer), Jannsen (closer/setup)

[spoon]

as a leadoff hitter, Choo has a .307 average and .386 on-base percentage that includes marks of .300 and .374 when leading off an innning.

Don't sound too bad to me.

cincy didn't, not what they are getting

Cincinnati's leadoff men combined for a .208 average and .254 on-base percentage in 2012. The Reds missed out on Ben Revere, whom the Twins dealt to the Phillies; Angel Pagan, who re-signed with the Giants; and Shane Victorino, who latched on with the Red Sox.

The Indians moved Choo into the leadoff hole in mid-May after he labored through the first portion of the 2012 season. In 99 games out of the No. 1 spot, Choo batted .310 with a .389 on-base percentage.

"He fills the one big void that we had," Jocketty told MLB.com, "and that was a leadoff hitter and someone with the ability to get on base from the top of the order. It's an area of our club that has been lacking the last few years."


I'm saying your boy is NOT best suited for the leadoff spot with his power and overall hitting game despite filling the role late last year. Choo IS the answer and will allow Phillips to drop in the lineup to a much better 2 slot in my mind. Choo/Phillips/Votto is pretty sweet in my mind, but Stubbs never panned out at all.

[spoon]

Apparently it was a hoax. Fake twitter account..

that makes more sense to me, as I can't believe he won't AT LEAST find a 4-5 year deal over 100 million mark too

we'll see, but the spanks are a little less desperate now with YOOOOK...but I don't undersell the need to make noise factor here still

[Earlshog]

Three years seems like a good term for someone with his injury concerns. 27 million AAV, not so much.

I dont care if they give him 40 mil a year, I ain't paying him

[spoon]

not until you pay your cable bill, buy a uni/hat and food/tx for a game that is

[Kevin]

that makes more sense to me, as I can't believe he won't AT LEAST find a 4-5 year deal over 100 million mark too

we'll see, but the spanks are a little less desperate now with YOOOOK...but I don't undersell the need to make noise factor here still

I can't wait to see him act like a 5 year old not getting what he wants after he gets punched out on a ball right down the middle, for 162 games.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Hamilton to the Halos. 5 at 125

[A.J.]

Fuckin' rich LA teams. How are smaller market teams like the Yankees and Red Sox supposed to compete with these behemoths who outspend them at every turn?

[razorboy]

Hamilton to the Halos. 5 at 125

The bad news is his body is going to give out on him in two years. The good news is he's going to the most boring, awful city on the planet.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I wonder what the stipulations are in the contract with all that temptation close to LA

[NickyL0885]

Rangers lost A LOT of offense this off season. Napoli, Hamilton, and Young. They need to make moves, quick.

[razorboy]

Rangers lost A LOT of offense this off season. Napoli, Hamilton, and Young. They need to make moves, quick.

I think they were willing to bet that last year was just Young getting old rather than a down year. Who knows what happens with Napoli. It's starting to feel like he isn't going to end up in Boston.

[MHasegawa]

Duggie alchy cocksucker, it'll be even sweeter when the division title goes to my green and gold once again.

[hanso]

Hamilton to the Halos. 5 at 125

He can help prop up your Fav. Albert Pujols

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Sanchez to stay in Detroit 5 Years 80 million

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Spoon, Do you want R A ?


http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/8747828/ra-dickey-traded-new-york-mets-soon-source-says

[spoon]

Spoon, Do you want R A ?


http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/8747828/ra-dickey-traded-new-york-mets-soon-source-says

http://blogimages.thescore.com/djf/files/2012/12/ra-dickey-shirt.jpg

I would love the guy, and his extension cost sounds CHEAP compared to the recent contracts given out for the likes of Grienke.

Still, NOT at the cost of our top prospect and Gose...no way. JPA and some more, perhaps Gose, but NOT Gose and D'Arnaud.

[spoon]

Word is, the sides are hoping to finish the trade soon, but no announcement was expected Friday.
While several other teams had been interested in Dickey, the Mets have focused all their attention on the Blue Jays, cutting off their discussions with other teams, sources tell CBSSports.com.
There are suggestions the Blue Jays may have relented to include top prospect, catcher Travis d’Arnaud. The Blue Jays preferred to include J.P. Arencibia, but the Mets have held steady in their demand of d’Arnaud, 23.
:unsure:

[cougarjake13]

http://blogimages.thescore.com/djf/files/2012/12/ra-dickey-shirt.jpg

I would love the guy, and his extension cost sounds CHEAP compared to the recent contracts given out for the likes of Grienke.

Still, NOT at the cost of our top prospect and Gose...no way. JPA and some more, perhaps Gose, but NOT Gose and D'Arnaud.




is that a shirt ?



I'd love to get it if so

[spoon]

is that a shirt ?



I'd love to get it if so

so you'd LOVE to get knuckle deep?

is that what you're saying CJ?

:lol:

[spoon]

gonna have to change the colors soon though

[cougarjake13]

so you'd LOVE to get knuckle deep?

is that what you're saying CJ?

:lol:



only if its a tranny with huge tits and very passable

[spoon]

only if its a tranny with huge tits and very passable

dspy it is!

[cougarjake13]

dspy it is!



na he's just a dude in drag

doesn't count

[spoon]

frightening thoughts :nono: