~ 2012 MLB Off-Season Thread ~

[cougarjake13]

That was the fucking worst. "wow" I think was his reaction.

Go back and look at the Tyree catch in the Super Bowl against the previously undefeated Patriots. The complete lack of emotion that comes out of Buck on this amazing play is pitiful.

But he lost his mind when Moss pretended to moon the crowd in GB.



you must have been listening to colin cowherd today

[cougarjake13]

Let's face it, in Milwaukee K-Rod's contract option is NEVER going to vest. The reason many would state is money, but I would like to point out that at this moment John Axford is actually more effective than K-Rod.

And honestly Boras is being the asshole, and that's his job. I get that. And the Mets were really smart to trade K-Rod (plus cash) for basically nothing to get out of the deal.

Now the best thing Boras can do is remind K-Rod that performance will drive his next contract. Let's remember the fact that the Brewers will decline the option, use the Mets' money to pay the buyout. At that point, K-Rod essentially becomes an UNRESTRICTED free agent, which in the age of the Billy Bean/Moneyball MLB is a huge deal.

The interesting thing will be if Boras gets this point and makes the best of the situation.


getting rid of f-rod and most likely beltran looks like salary dumps to free up signing reyes which i cant complain about


and just bc theyre reporting doesnt make it true but on the espn crawl it keeps saying that axford and f-rod will split closing

so that'll be a clusterfuck

[Snoogans]

getting rid of f-rod and most likely beltran looks like salary dumps to free up signing reyes which i cant complain about


and just bc theyre reporting doesnt make it true but on the espn crawl it keeps saying that axford and f-rod will split closing

so that'll be a clusterfuck

no, its not. Its salary dumps cause the team cant afford salaries. You guys are gonna be really crushed if you convince yourselves you might actually keep reyes

[underdog]

you must have been listening to colin cowherd today

Oh, god no. That's the worst thing you can say about a man.

[cougarjake13]

Oh, god no. That's the worst thing you can say about a man.

he made your exact comparison bringing up the tyree call

[cougarjake13]

no, its not. Its salary dumps cause the team cant afford salaries. You guys are gonna be really crushed if you convince yourselves you might actually keep reyes

like i said i cant complain if they sign him

personally theyd be better served if they traded him

[epo]

getting rid of f-rod and most likely beltran looks like salary dumps to free up signing reyes which i cant complain about


and just bc theyre reporting doesnt make it true but on the espn crawl it keeps saying that axford and f-rod will split closing

so that'll be a clusterfuck

ESPN is stupid.

Why would the Brewers risk 21 closing appearances for $17.5 million when their current closer is better than K-Rod?

Exactly...they wouldn't.

[cougarjake13]

ESPN is stupid.

Why would the Brewers risk 21 closing appearances for $17.5 million when their current closer is better than K-Rod?

Exactly...they wouldn't.




like i said


doesnt make it true

[epo]

like i said

doesnt make it true

I've heard the local beat writers and the Brewers GM talk about the situation and here's what I can figure: K-Rod will work the 8th like a regular setup man. Occasionally when the closer is unavailable, K-Rod will fill that role rather than Kameron Loe or Latroy Hawkins (which is smart).

If ESPN wants to define that as "splitting saves", then god bless them.

[Snoogans]

ESPN is stupid.

Why would the Brewers risk 21 closing appearances for $17.5 million when their current closer is better than K-Rod?

Exactly...they wouldn't.

actually, what they are sayin is that you guys are talkin to KRod about doin some sorta deal in the range of 10 million for next year, thus wiping out the option now, allowing you to use him as a closer, and allowing him to get something next year rather than knowing you wont let him hit his bonus

[underdog]

he made your exact comparison bringing up the tyree call

I posted it elsewhere yesterday, so he must be copying me.

[KnoxHarrington]

This move to have the All-Star Game has really injected a new sense of urgency and passion into the game, getting fans to love the Midsummer Classic all over again...

...or not.

PHOENIX (AP) -- Baseball's All-Star game has drawn a record-low rating for the second straight year.
The National League's 5-1 win Tuesday on Fox earned a 6.9 rating and 12 share. That's down 8 percent from the 7.5/13 in 2010.
Before last year, the previous low was an 8.1/14 in 2005.


Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/baseball/mlb/07/13/all.star.ratings.ap/index.html#ixzz1S2pwKSRx

Good job Bud

[Dirtbag]

What the hell else were people watching on a Tuesday night? Is NFL Lockout talk that engaging?

[sailor]

I posted it elsewhere yesterday, so he must be copying me.

i think jay mohr has brought it up on o&a

[underdog]

i think jay mohr has brought it up on o&a

I've also seen it brought up on Deadspin and by Bill Simmons.

[spoon]

That whole broadcast was nothing short of pathetic.

Bt buck saying gonzalez is hands down the al mvp, mccarver saying rolen is the best baserunning third basemen when buck asked him how good is he meaning defense and soooo many more idiotic statements.

On another note, it was nice to see at least heath bell knows u give fans the ball, not the other way around.

[foodcourtdruide]

no, its not. Its salary dumps cause the team cant afford salaries. You guys are gonna be really crushed if you convince yourselves you might actually keep reyes

You have no proof of this statement. Why do you think the Mets can't afford salaries? The Wilpons have been terrible in many ways, but one thing they haven't been is cheap.

The Mets will make a serious run at resigning Reyes (unless they trade him, of course). If another team ridiculously overpays, then the Mets shouldn't sign him. That was the problem with Minaya, he would outbid everyone, to the point of ridiculousness.

[sailor]

Um, Bernie Madoff?

[foodcourtdruide]

Um, Bernie Madoff?

Right, and Alderson has said he will be reducing payroll, but even with that the Mets still have money to spend next season, as K-Rod, Perez, Castillo and Beltran are coming off the books. I'm not saying it will be right to sign Reyes, but I'd be shocked if Reyes isn't made a serious offer by the Mets (unless he's traded, which is also possible).

Also, on MLBTradeRumors.com they're discussing if the Brewers will offer arbitration to K-Rod next season. I'd have to guess they wouldn't, since he'd likely accept. Basically, if K-Rod accepted arbitration and made say $14m, with the additional $3.5m buyout, he'd actually be able to make $17.5m next season. There's absolutely no way he'd turn that down.

[underdog]

That whole broadcast was nothing short of pathetic.

Bt buck saying gonzalez is hands down the al mvp, mccarver saying rolen is the best baserunning third basemen when buck asked him how good is he meaning defense and soooo many more idiotic statements.

On another note, it was nice to see at least heath bell knows u give fans the ball, not the other way around.

Yeah, the "hands down MVP" comment got destroyed online. It was hilarious.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The only reason why Joe Buck is calling national sporting events.


The Late


http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/715/659/JT6WOYBw_display_image.jpg?1297448752

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Fear the tux


http://tv.yahoo.com/slideshow/739/photos/1

[spoon]

Cyborg

[TripleSkeet]

Fear the tux


http://tv.yahoo.com/slideshow/739/photos/1

He went from being mildy eccentric and entertaining to just being a douche.

[spoon]

Nah, he was always an ass.

Nice first inning for new york. Fuck off sterling, he keeps saying he can't believe it as if colon is some fucking ace and the jays never hit. He and waldman are unbearable!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Nah, he was always an ass.

Nice first inning for new york. Fuck off sterling, he keeps saying he can't believe it as if colon is some fucking ace and the jays never hit. He and waldman are unbearable!

They make the late Rizzuto sound like Vin Scully

[cougarjake13]

Nah, he was always an ass.

Nice first inning for new york. Fuck off sterling, he keeps saying he can't believe it as if colon is some fucking ace and the jays never hit. He and waldman are unbearable!

i cant see how yanks fans like them and theyre still employed

[spoon]

Jeter had an error bc he didn't want to loss the title to Nunez.

Must have been bc he's mentally tired, er wait, his calfy is swore. He has an ouchy and it only shows his rest was needed. If not, we would have seen at least one more.

[epo]

actually, what they are sayin is that you guys are talkin to KRod about doin some sorta deal in the range of 10 million for next year, thus wiping out the option now, allowing you to use him as a closer, and allowing him to get something next year rather than knowing you wont let him hit his bonus

So that whole mess got cleaned up. (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/125669308.html)

Essentially K-Rod is still owed $5million for this year. Next year's option was 3.5 million.

Milwaukee guaranteed the option money and made it $4 million, but the option is now gone. Milwaukee retains the right to offer K-Rod arbitration if they so choose.

[cougarjake13]

So that whole mess got cleaned up. (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/125669308.html)

Essentially K-Rod is still owed $5million for this year. Next year's option was 3.5 million.

Milwaukee guaranteed the option money and made it $4 million, but the option is now gone. Milwaukee retains the right to offer K-Rod arbitration if they so choose.

its a deal that pretty much works for both sides

[spoon]

Cc dealing today. Amazing how a good pitcher doesn't have to use excuses like stealing signs. Yah a team about to b 21-23 at home. Fucking yanks are babies. It had nothing to do with shitty pitching, tons of walks and nunez booting balls at third. Time to get to mo and win this in the ninth!

[spoon]

Wow it's unreal how wide the plate is for mariano. Waaaaaaay inside called k 3

[spoon]

Why throw strikes!? They just give him that pitch all day.

[spoon]

Even so, Jays now have the tying run at the plate.

[spoon]

There it is again. Forces u to swing at balls too.

[spoon]

Let's see how much sign stealing was going on today!?

[cougarjake13]

Let's see how much sign stealing was going on today!?

its not in my box score

where did u find it ?

[spoon]

Ha! It's only a stat when the yankees lose.

[spoon]

So odd, not one story on stolen signs these last two games or any commentary either!?

Leave it to the yankees to douche up an situation and make it about them. I challenge anyone to go back and find some sign stealing and then take a peak at their pitcher's lines and all the errors that helped. Hell, I think only 3 runs of the 8 in that first game were earned, and that involved Colon walking a few too. Heck, 9 of 16 total runs were earned, and they got a hit ruling once that should have been an error on top of that (Nunez pop out miss). Sorry, everything about the yanks just have douche vibes to it. They don't lose, they get cheated. Even though they really had 4 fucking errors and 5 walks to go with all those stolen sign hits the jays made!

[Justice4all]

Cc dealing today. Amazing how a good pitcher doesn't have to use excuses like stealing signs. Yah a team about to b 21-23 at home. Fucking yanks are babies. It had nothing to do with shitty pitching, tons of walks and nunez booting balls at third. Time to get to mo and win this in the ninth!

Wow it's unreal how wide the plate is for mariano. Waaaaaaay inside called k 3



Why throw strikes!? They just give him that pitch all day.

Even so, Jays now have the tying run at the plate.

There it is again. Forces u to swing at balls too.


Let's see how much sign stealing was going on today!?


WOW....talk to yourself often??

Do you have ANY idea how much of a old biddie you sound like.
Yanks SUCK!! WAHHHHHHH...They bought their team.......Wahhhhhh....they steal signs........wahhhhhhhhhhh......I hate them!!
What's next??
http://static.becomegorgeous.com/img/articles/how_to_deal_with_temper_tantrums.jpg

Ok...we get it...you hate them. It just make you look like a petty bitter douche when you start with this crap again and again and again and....you get the picture.


There's plenty of people who hate other teams, but for crying out loud man....ENOUGH! It's old and boring. And plenty of people stopped listening.

(cue spoons' retort with smiley faces)

[disneyspy]

surely we post here without personal attacks

[Justice4all]

surely we post here without personal attacks

Spoon knows me and knows it's in NO WAY a personal attack.
Give me a fucking break.

[disneyspy]

Spoon knows me and knows it's in NO WAY a personal attack.
Give me a fucking break.

my bad

[spoon]

Let him go, he obviously can't read.

The YANKEES were crying about stolen signs and made it a story as only they can when they lose with COLON AND GARCIA on the mound. Get used to me bashing them until they earn anything worth praising. Which with 27 titles somehow it's zero.

The catalyst for this were the yankee's crying my friend, not me. I lay into bs like that, yes.

And fuck your smilie face. Do you even pay attention at all, much less read? You come off as an uninformed fanboy at best. So get back to spending all your money on $100 bleacher/upper deck seats to pay Jeter's inflated salary. You have been taken fanboy...at every turn.

[spoon]

my bad

I don't even know who the guy is DS, ban his ass!



insert justice smilie here? -->?
















Shit he honestly should be banned just for being wrong all the time. Did you win that shit yet? I sure hope Jeter doesn't choose to be gay after he aborts his false love child with Minka. Would that just crush your soul? :devil2:

[spoon]

Jeter has a hanger?

[Snacks]

Let him go, he obviously can't read.

The YANKEES were crying about stolen signs and made it a story as only they can when they lose with COLON AND GARCIA on the mound. Get used to me bashing them until they earn anything worth praising. Which with 27 titles somehow it's zero.

The catalyst for this were the yankee's crying my friend, not me. I lay into bs like that, yes.

And fuck your smilie face. Do you even pay attention at all, much less read? You come off as an uninformed fanboy at best. So get back to spending all your money on $100 bleacher/upper deck seats to pay Jeter's inflated salary. You have been taken fanboy...at every turn.

Lets go Yankees :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap::clap:

I just want to say even with all my Yankee bashing my cousin still was nice enough to buy me a Josh "Jesus" Hamilton Jersey. Its really nice. The funny thing is I love Hamilton and think he is a stud yet hate his religious believes and I think hes nuts when it comes to God speaking to him and his born again crap! I guess is shows good or bad you can still like a guy for his talents not his personal views!

[Snacks]

I sure hope Jeter doesn't choose to be gay after he aborts his false love child with Minka. Would that just crush your soul? :devil2:

Something is going on with that relationship. Either he is smart and wont get married before he retires and or he knows shes now in her 30s and hes getting ready to move on? I dont know but he was supposed to get married after the post season last year. Now 10 months later he still aint married and she just got another year older. I love Minka but you know Jeter is looking for a younger, newer version.

or he really is gay...

[spoon]

it's the classic I fucked up but found God shit bc they can't do it without some sparkly man in the sky helping find their way

his game is nuts true, but that's enough for me to NOT like him that much

[spoon]

or he really is gay...

you just made Justice a very happy man

[Snacks]

it's the classic I fucked up but found God shit bc they can't do it without some sparkly man in the sky helping find their way

his game is nuts true, but that's enough for me to NOT like him that much

Listen, you like the player not his beliefs (I guess for the most part I have hated players for less) But I like players that are hated for juice (which you know I dont care about). I like players for what they do on the field. My current fav players are such a mix. Arod, Hamilton, Braun, Fielder, Longoria, Big Papi, Howard, Ichiro...

You got accused juicers, admitted juicers, jesus freaks, he-brewers, over sized vegiterians and whatever else. I like how a guy plays and production. Sometimes guys like Wilson you like because they are funny!

[spoon]

Yah in fav players we differ in a big way.

I'm much more inclined to like the all-around player or at least multifaceted. While I love Fielder and his antics, his D is deplorable (even if better of late).

[Snacks]

Yah in fav players we differ in a big way.

I'm much more inclined to like the all-around player or at least multifaceted. While I love Fielder and his antics, his D is deplorable (even if better of late).

I dig the long ball!

wait, what did I say?

[spoon]

i figured that much out. Especially since you didn't mention ONE pitcher, your offensive inclination is clear.

[Snacks]

i figured that much out. Especially since you didn't mention ONE pitcher, your offensive inclination is clear.

I love your boy Roy, CC and some of my fav players of all time are pitchers but I like guys I can see every day and usually only buy their jerseys!

You will love some of the recent retired players who are parts of my all time Favs.

Bonds, Piazza, Clemens, Maddox, Jimmy Key (you like that 1) Randy Johnson, Manny being Manny... few others

[spoon]

I love your boy Roy, CC and some of my fav players of all time are pitchers but I like guys I can see every day and usually only buy their jerseys!

You will love some of the recent retired players who are parts of my all time Favs.

Bonds, Piazza, Clemens, Maddox, Jimmy Key (you like that 1) Randy Johnson, Manny being Manny... few others

Hate Bonds in every way, Clemens is a farce and I wouldn't believe him is he told me he played for teams he actually played for, like Piazza/not love, Key can fuck himself, Johnson should be the most Cy decorated pitcher of all-time (see Clemens steroid Cys in Toronto/BS), Manny lost all my respect even if he was at least fun.

Yah, I far from love most of your all-time favs.

[Snoogans]

according to the bottom line on ESPN, Yankees just got Ubaldo Jimenez

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE TEAMS

[Snoogans]

i cant find anything official, but the rumors im seeing make me happy about this deal. the yankees are fuckin stupid

[spoon]

I heard the rumors for a while, Jiminez for Montera, Nova and one "killer b"

[cougarjake13]

so was the deal done ??

[cougarjake13]

just read on the crawl that mets are willing to pay beltrans salary if traded


if your gonna pay him you might as well benefit for his services otherwise you're paying whatever beltrans salary is for whatever pieces we get back in the deal

[spoon]

so was the deal done ??

nothing confirmed just yet

Jimenez has been much better of late again, is only 27 and has quite an impressive era over time in Colorado.

I'd be shocked if they move him after signing Tulo and Gonzalez earlier in the past year or so. Why dump the rare ace that can actually pitch in Colorado who is clearly part of the core. If they do, it better be at least the guys I mentioned earlier. However, Colorado has one of the top ranked catchers who can ACTUALLY catch in the system. Unless they plan on making Montero a first baseman, but then his value is so much less. NY has a ton of catching depth (most bought from the international free agent market), so they aren't losing much being they have a guy at first lined up for years too. Make them move more.

[hanso]

Ben Walker knows nothing of baseball.

[brettmojo]

according to the bottom line on ESPN, Yankees just got Ubaldo Jimenez

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE TEAMS
Like we need another Javy Vasquez.

[cougarjake13]

Like we need another Javy Vasquez.

exactly what i thought

[spoon]

you thought the same exact stupid thing?! CJ I thought better of you.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Jim Thome is a few HR away from closing in on 600 and hardly a peep. For Jeters 3000 chase it was wall to wall coverage of course its because hes on the Yankees. 28 other players have 3000+ hits but theres only a few with 600 or more and there are a few linked to Steroids.

Thome does have a flaw of having struck out more than 2000 times, however his chase for 600 should have more attention

[brettmojo]

exactly what i thought
I don't know what I'm thinking. Good National League starters always do so great in the American League. Especially in the east.

[Earlshog]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/jon_heyman/07/20/carlos.beltran/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_t12_a2


The Phillies appear to be at least an early favorite in the Carlos Beltran sweepstakes that's drawn interest from as many as 10 teams.

Sure I'd love to have him as a Phillies fan but Dominic Brown is a nice chip. Might be a little shortsighted. You have to figure Brown takes over for Ibanez next season and if he lives up to his potential he's you next Rollins / Utley homegrown stud. With that said Beltran would really bloster the Phils line-up. With that staff man they would be tough to beat.

[TripleSkeet]

If its gonna cost us Brown I dont want Beltran. Id much rather keep Brown and go rent a Francouer or Thome for 1/2 a season. I also would rather keep Worley then give him up for Jimenez. Im just not a fan of him. Id really like to somehow see the Phils use that Houston prospect theyve got to somehow steal Hunter Pence from Ed Wade, but I know thats not happening.

[Earlshog]

If its gonna cost us Brown I dont want Beltran. Id much rather keep Brown and go rent a Francouer or Thome for 1/2 a season. I also would rather keep Worley then give him up for Jimenez. Im just not a fan of him. Id really like to somehow see the Phils use that Houston prospect theyve got to somehow steal Hunter Pence from Ed Wade, but I know thats not happening.

While I wouldn't mind a Willingham or Francouer as a righty bat for the second half its not the same. Beltran steps in and is your third best hitter (hell with the season he is having he might be your best). Not sure what Thome could be used for?

I haven't heard the rumors but if they can get Jimenez with Worley as the primary (Which I sincerely doubt Colorado would do) they should do it in .0000000000000000000000001 seconds. Jimenez is a top of the rotation stud with a very reasonable contract for the next two seasons.

Agree with you in Pence, he is the one guy the Astros will not move.

[foodcourtdruide]

While I wouldn't mind a Willingham or Francouer as a righty bat for the second half its not the same. Beltran steps in and is your third best hitter (hell with the season he is having he might be your best). Not sure what Thome could be used for?

I haven't heard the rumors but if they can get Jimenez with Worley as the primary (Which I sincerely doubt Colorado would do) they should do it in .0000000000000000000000001 seconds. Jimenez is a top of the rotation stud with a very reasonable contract for the next two seasons.

Agree with you in Pence, he is the one guy the Astros will not move.

If the Mets were offerred Brown for Beltran, I think Alderson would get whiplash reaching for his phone to accept. My guess is the Phillies would require more.

[TripleSkeet]

While I wouldn't mind a Willingham or Francouer as a righty bat for the second half its not the same. Beltran steps in and is your third best hitter (hell with the season he is having he might be your best). Not sure what Thome could be used for?

I haven't heard the rumors but if they can get Jimenez with Worley as the primary (Which I sincerely doubt Colorado would do) they should do it in .0000000000000000000000001 seconds. Jimenez is a top of the rotation stud with a very reasonable contract for the next two seasons.

Agree with you in Pence, he is the one guy the Astros will not move.

Id like to have Thome as a Pinch hitter and possible DH if they make the World Series. I see what youre saying about Jimenez, I just dont like him. Never did. When I look at him I see the same thing I saw with Barry Zito. Going to another team and completely shitting the bed. I have no basis for that opinion, its just what I feel.

[Earlshog]

Id like to have Thome as a Pinch hitter and possible DH if they make the World Series. I see what youre saying about Jimenez, I just dont like him. Never did. When I look at him I see the same thing I saw with Barry Zito. Going to another team and completely shitting the bed. I have no basis for that opinion, its just what I feel.

Oh yeah Thome would be nice to have a pinch hitter and a potential DH if they reach the series, but that isn't worth anything more than a marginal prospect and the Phils aren't going to want to pay him.

Rumor is the Royals supposedly aren't really fond on dealing Francouer. Don't forget the Phils offered him a deal in the offseason and he choose to go to KC. Willingham is a nice player, but let's be real he doesn't give you a quarter of what Beltran does. I wouldn't give them Brown, but maybe one of the pitching prospects??? Tough call.

[TripleSkeet]

Oh yeah Thome would be nice to have a pinch hitter and a potential DH if they reach the series, but that isn't worth anything more than a marginal prospect and the Phils aren't going to want to pay him.

Rumor is the Royals supposedly aren't really fond on dealing Francouer. Don't forget the Phils offered him a deal in the offseason and he choose to go to KC. Willingham is a nice player, but let's be real he doesn't give you a quarter of what Beltran does. I wouldn't give them Brown, but maybe one of the pitching prospects??? Tough call.

I wouldnt have a problem with them giving up a pitching prospect for Beltran. I just dont want to see them give up Brown or Worley. From what I read KC doesnt mind giving up either Francouer or Cabrera, but doesnt want to give up both. As far as Thome goes, I would like him because they should be able to get him for nothing major. Plus is he really making that much? How much could a 3 month rental cost???

[underdog]

I wouldnt have a problem with them giving up a pitching prospect for Beltran. I just dont want to see them give up Brown or Worley. From what I read KC doesnt mind giving up either Francouer or Cabrera, but doesnt want to give up both. As far as Thome goes, I would like him because they should be able to get him for nothing major. Plus is he really making that much? How much could a 3 month rental cost???

I hope someone overpays for Francoeur (which would basically be just trading for him). I love how mad people get over him getting positive attention.

[foodcourtdruide]

I hope someone overpays for Francoeur (which would basically be just trading for him). I love how mad people get over him getting positive attention.

Because he's incredibly frustrating.

[spoon]

Id like to have Thome as a Pinch hitter and possible DH if they make the World Series. I see what youre saying about Jimenez, I just dont like him. Never did. When I look at him I see the same thing I saw with Barry Zito. Going to another team and completely shitting the bed. I have no basis for that opinion, its just what I feel.

So odd to just randomly think Jimenez would be the next Zito!?

First off, financially it's not even close.

Jimenez will make 2.8, 4, 5.75 and 8 from 2011-214. Also he has 1 million dollar buy-outs in the final two years (the bigger, yet still low money years) of the deal. Top of the rotation pitcher putting up good number in COLORADO for that? Wow.

Zito's LOWEST salary with SF (signed in 07) was more already at 10 million! From there he's been paid 14.5, 18.5, 18.5 and 18.5 million. So from the 2011-2014 timeline we can compare Zito at 18.5, 19.5, 20 & 18 million with a 7 million dollar buy out.

Heck, that financial picture should be enough to show he's EASILY worth a much bigger risk, even if he isn't that risky.

And yes, Bmojo, not one national league pitcher has EVER been able to make the jump to the scary AL. In fact, your Javy V comparison is not myopic, pigeon-holed or NYY glasses influenced/biased AT ALL! Good point, he's no where near worth that contract, much less the ability to play in the AL.

[cougarjake13]

you thought the same exact stupid thing?! CJ I thought better of you.



rest of my post got cut off as i posting in 2 threads at same time


exactly what i thought youd say was my full post

[TripleSkeet]

So odd to just randomly think Jimenez would be the next Zito!?

First off, financially it's not even close.

Jimenez will make 2.8, 4, 5.75 and 8 from 2011-214. Also he has 1 million dollar buy-outs in the final two years (the bigger, yet still low money years) of the deal. Top of the rotation pitcher putting up good number in COLORADO for that? Wow.

Zito's LOWEST salary with SF (signed in 07) was more already at 10 million! From there he's been paid 14.5, 18.5, 18.5 and 18.5 million. So from the 2011-2014 timeline we can compare Zito at 18.5, 19.5, 20 & 18 million with a 7 million dollar buy out.

Heck, that financial picture should be enough to show he's EASILY worth a much bigger risk, even if he isn't that risky.

And yes, Bmojo, not one national league pitcher has EVER been able to make the jump to the scary AL. In fact, your Javy V comparison is not myopic, pigeon-holed or NYY glasses influenced/biased AT ALL! Good point, he's no where near worth that contract, much less the ability to play in the AL.

Im not saying hes the next Barry Zito, Im just saying for some reason I get the same feeling about him I did when Zito became a free agent. That somehow he wasnt going to be great when he left Oakland. As I said its not based on anything other then a feeling but thats how I feeel about Jimenez too. I could be completely wrong, I know this.

[spoon]

Im not saying hes the next Barry Zito, Im just saying for some reason I get the same feeling about him I did when Zito became a free agent. That somehow he wasnt going to be great when he left Oakland. As I said its not based on anything other then a feeling but thats how I feeel about Jimenez too. I could be completely wrong, I know this.

I get you, just showing that even if he does fail it's at less than half the cost for a shot a such a good kid with years under his belt in a HUGE hitter's park. It's not often a guy can move to Philly and his new park is an upgrade from the pitcher's perspective. The Philly arms this year and being light on offense impacting their park factors two-fold, the numbers are a little skewed I get that. However, this guy could be a gem if coached right and hell in Philly he's what a number 5?!!?!?!!? I doubt it happens, but man they better help drive that price up BIG so NY gets fleeced if he does go there.

[spoon]

Oh and if you simply add up the contracts out to both their conclusions after the 2014 seasons it's just over 20 million for 4 years with Jimenez versus 76 for Zito. Unreal difference there and I'd easily bet Jimenez out plays him by a wide margin from this day forward...ESPECIALLY if he goes to the teams in the rumors currently.

[TripleSkeet]

I get you, just showing that even if he does fail it's at less than half the cost for a shot a such a good kid with years under his belt in a HUGE hitter's park. It's not often a guy can move to Philly and his new park is an upgrade from the pitcher's perspective. The Philly arms this year and being light on offense impacting their park factors two-fold, the numbers are a little skewed I get that. However, this guy could be a gem if coached right and hell in Philly he's what a number 5?!!?!?!!? I doubt it happens, but man they better help drive that price up BIG so NY gets fleeced if he does go there.

Probably the #4 after this year. Blanton is done for the year and I doubt hell be back. I dont see Oswalt here next season either.

[spoon]

Probably the #4 after this year. Blanton is done for the year and I doubt hell be back. I dont see Oswalt here next season either.

The move keeps making more sense to me then, barring a ridiculous package going the other way. Yet you won't get a guy like that for nothing. Think of it this way, wasn't Halladay EASILY worth it? At best, it could end up a win win if Drabek finds his MLB stuff, d'Arnaud continues towards the majors (looking real good) and finally Gose is the CF of the future.

Still, you already got a CY year that included a perfect game, the second ever no-hitter in the playoffs (one walk away from a second perfect game) and one of the top 2 pitchers in the NL in the first half of 2011 thus far (Jurrjens will fall in my mind). Yet, Halladay's last start was completely odd to me so bottom line is the race should be fun to watch.

[TripleSkeet]

The move keeps making more sense to me then, barring a ridiculous package going the other way. Yet you won't get a guy like that for nothing. Think of it this way, wasn't Halladay EASILY worth it? At best, it could end up a win win if Drabek finds his MLB stuff, d'Arnaud continues towards the majors (looking real good) and finally Gose is the CF of the future.

Still, you already got a CY year that included a perfect game, the second ever no-hitter in the playoffs (one walk away from a second perfect game) and one of the top 2 pitchers in the NL in the first half of 2011 thus far (Jurrjens will fall in my mind). Yet, Halladay's last start was completely odd to me so bottom line is the race should be fun to watch.

Meh, his last start was heat exhaustion. He was already overheated before the game started. They had video of him pouring water over his head and downing gatorade like a maniac before the game, that was just a fluke. I agree for a talent like Halladay the deal was completely worth it. I just think Worley is a great #4 and we dont have to give anything up to keep him. Right now Id like to see them get a right handed bat and a decent reliever more then another starter.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Latino players need rice and beans.


According to the Tigers TV commentator, who is black

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Tigers-TV-guy-Latinos-need-8216-rice-and-bean;_ylt=AjDEwz6CXVln163kEXzRjRcRvLYF?urn=mlb-wp13541

[disneyspy]

Latino players need rice and beans.


According to the Tigers TV commentator, who is black

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Tigers-TV-guy-Latinos-need-8216-rice-and-bean;_ylt=AjDEwz6CXVln163kEXzRjRcRvLYF?urn=mlb-wp13541

ya the tigers have the worst announcing team

at least they domminate the twins

[Dan 'Hampton]

Damn! We got any rice and beans back there? I'm starving.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Looks like the trade talks are starting up again about dealing Ubaldo Jimenez. He had a dismal outing vs the D'Backs

[TripleSkeet]

Love the fact that the Phils said no to Brown for Beltran and then said no to Cossart (sp) for Beltran too,.

[foodcourtdruide]

Love the fact that the Phils said no to Brown for Beltran and then said no to Cossart (sp) for Beltran too,.

We'll remember this post when Beltran goes 3 for 4 in game 7 of the NLCS for the Giants in Phladelphia. Just busting balls. ;)

Something tells me Beltran ends up on a team that wasn't a favorite. I think he's such a perfect fit on Pittsburgh. I can't believe they're not going after him more aggressively.

[TripleSkeet]

We'll remember this post when Beltran goes 3 for 4 in game 7 of the NLCS for the Giants in Phladelphia. Just busting balls. ;)

Something tells me Beltran ends up on a team that wasn't a favorite. I think he's such a perfect fit on Pittsburgh. I can't believe they're not going after him more aggressively.

LOL I just think they want too much for what would be a rental. If we give up Brown then thats 2 outfielders we gotta try and find next season.

[foodcourtdruide]

LOL I just think they want too much for what would be a rental. If we give up Brown then thats 2 outfielders we gotta try and find next season.

Are the Phillies actually thinking BJ Upton can fill the hole Beltran would fill? That's insane. Upton is terrible. His OPS this year is .705!

[JimBeam]

With regards to an upcoming contract for Reyes couldn't a team, worried about what he'll be like in 5 years, front load the contract ?

So give him $20 million next year but only $12 million in year 5 w/ a chance to increase it based on incentives ?

Is that something the union would be against ?

[spoon]

Are the Phillies actually thinking BJ Upton can fill the hole Beltran would fill? That's insane. Upton is terrible. His OPS this year is .705!

Yet Upton is a very good CF and good insurance to the recently oft injured Victorino and is locked up for a great contract until 2012 vs Beltran being a decent corner outfielder at best these days and free agent at the years end. Upton could benefit greatly from a change and has a ton of potential, is WAY younger and as I said cheap (4 million vs 18 million for Beltran). Factor in that Upton will be cheaper in the end in terms of what it will take to get him and you see he's a pretty good option here.

I'd love to get the 26 year old kid on the cheap (two ways) with better D, huge potential and always healthy OF versus a guy who is almost a decade older, was only healthy 1 out of the last 3 years (so far and in a contract year...hmmm), linked to steroids in a big big way and suspect of late defensively costing around double for one half year for Uptons next 1.5 years.

I guess it all depends on the deals out there for both, but Upton is no throw away and I may even like him more bc he could become a key player on the cheap if the Phils play it right. He's a good stock artificially low right now.

[spoon]

With regards to an upcoming contract for Reyes couldn't a team, worried about what he'll be like in 5 years, front load the contract ?

So give him $20 million next year but only $12 million in year 5 w/ a chance to increase it based on incentives ?

Is that something the union would be against ?

I'm sure it's something Reyes would be against. If he gets that money up front, he'll find someone to pay it almost throughout. You don't sign an incentive based contract at the height of your value.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Reyes has put himself in a tough situation and his contract will be in the favor of the buyer. He has been injured the past few years and his legs are everything to him. Im not sure if any team will offer him a Crawford like contract. He might be looking at 5 years at the most

[JimBeam]

I was thinking more from a team/GM point of view.

Obvioulsy he's gonna want as much as he can get and some dumb team's gonna pay him and end up eating the last 2 years of $40 million when he's either hurt or simply not getting it done anymore.

[spoon]

Reyes has put himself in a tough situation and his contract will be in the favor of the buyer. He has been injured the past few years and his legs are everything to him. Im not sure if any team will offer him a Crawford like contract. He might be looking at 5 years at the most

I don't think he's in a tough situation. He'll get a pretty damn good contract when all is said and done. I'm not sure anyone will get that Crawford type money for a while bc Washington won't sign Jayson Werth every year as well.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I don't think he's in a tough situation. He'll get a pretty damn good contract when all is said and done. I'm not sure anyone will get that Crawford type money for a while bc Washington won't sign Jayson Werth every year as well.

I think with his last injury he lost a year on a potential contract. I remember hearing that the Mets were going to offer him a 5 year extension at 20MM/yr

Does he go with the safe bet or does he test the FA market? With him being injury prone I dont see any other team offering that money. He might get the 5 years if he tests FA

[spoon]

I was thinking more from a team/GM point of view.

Obvioulsy he's gonna want as much as he can get and some dumb team's gonna pay him and end up eating the last 2 years of $40 million when he's either hurt or simply not getting it done anymore.

Not sure why we would discuss something even you don't think will happen? Of course a GM/team can offer less and get laughed at by Reyes and his agent. I responded bc he'll surely find a good contract out there and not have to have it be an incentive laden contract at this point in his career. Those contracts are more for players like Frank Thomas at his tail end, or guys with HUGE injury concerns but clearly talented so they load up a HUGE contract if the guy plays. Opt outs are dumb as well for players versus some steady money.

Aaron Hill had his big year with the Jays and got a great contract as he continued to be on the upswing. Only problem is they talked him into opt outs and options all over it to protect them, not him, and he and his agent are getting f'd of his past value right now. It saved my Jays from a very bad contract, but man did they f up with that contract. JPR actually had a savvy contract with that one and Hill will never see the money he could have if he refused the opts which he truly could have at the time. They probably convinced him that he too wanted them with his value and they would be happy to work it out. Only they wouldn't and covered their own ass.

He's going to be elsewhere next year at a VERY reduced rate versus the three years at 8, 8 and 10 million. A good agent finds guaranteed money for those years, even if at 7 per versus these options. He'll be lucky to make even close next year.

[foodcourtdruide]

Yet Upton is a very good CF and good insurance to the recently oft injured Victorino and is locked up for a great contract until 2012 vs Beltran being a decent corner outfielder at best these days and free agent at the years end. Upton could benefit greatly from a change and has a ton of potential, is WAY younger and as I said cheap (4 million vs 18 million for Beltran). Factor in that Upton will be cheaper in the end in terms of what it will take to get him and you see he's a pretty good option here.

I'd love to get the 26 year old kid on the cheap (two ways) with better D, huge potential and always healthy OF versus a guy who is almost a decade older, was only healthy 1 out of the last 3 years (so far and in a contract year...hmmm), linked to steroids in a big big way and suspect of late defensively costing around double for one half year for Uptons next 1.5 years.

I guess it all depends on the deals out there for both, but Upton is no throw away and I may even like him more bc he could become a key player on the cheap if the Phils play it right. He's a good stock artificially low right now.

Upton is not good though. He's hitting .226 and everyone says he has a bad attitude and dogs it. Also, it's not like this is an "off-year" for Upton. He's been regressing like crazy since his 2007 season. A year and a half of him will cost you less than a 2-month Beltran rental for a reason. Beltran is a much, much, much better player, even a decade older.

I don't understand what Upton has shown anyone that would say he'll suddenly come to Philly and hit .300.

I never heard Beltran was linked to steroids. Where'd you hear that?

[foodcourtdruide]

I think with his last injury he lost a year on a potential contract. I remember hearing that the Mets were going to offer him a 5 year extension at 20MM/yr

Does he go with the safe bet or does he test the FA market? With him being injury prone I dont see any other team offering that money. He might get the 5 years if he tests FA

I agree with everything you said here WF. I think he tests FA, at least the Mets will get 2 draft picks if he signs elsewhere. Something inside tells me a Reyes + Beltran deal to the Giants for a few of their top prospects (Belt + Wheeler) may not be too crazy.

The Giants would instantly become the best team in baseball if that happened.

[spoon]

He'll get PLENTY of offers if he goes to market. I think he'll ultimately get lined up back with NYM after they get some prospects for Beltran and rid themselves of the contract. He and Wright will continue being the face of the team, Santana once he returns too (soon) and they'll get somewhat of a deal on him. Just my thoughts, but his injury isn't that big a deal at all. It's odd people are making so much of it bc he only missed a few games and is clearly fine now. He went 7/16 in the last series and batting .378 in his last 10 games bookended by the time before and after his injury. He only has one game in that sample without a hit, his second game back versus St. Louis.

[foodcourtdruide]

He'll get PLENTY of offers if he goes to market. I think he'll ultimately get lined up back with NYM after they get some prospects for Beltran and rid themselves of the contract. He and Wright will continue being the face of the team, Santana once he returns too (soon) and they'll get somewhat of a deal on him. Just my thoughts, but his injury isn't that big a deal at all. It's odd people are making so much of it bc he only missed a few games and is clearly fine now. He went 7/16 in the last series and batting .378 in his last 10 games bookended by the time before and after his injury. He only has one game in that sample without a hit, his second game back versus St. Louis.

I think the injury is a big deal. His legs are such a huge part of his game, and he's proven over and over again that they're something to be concerned about in terms of a long-term deal.

If I had to guess, I'd say he tests free-agency and ultimately re-signs with the Mets for 5/$90.

[spoon]

Upton is not good though. He's hitting .226 and everyone says he has a bad attitude and dogs it. Also, it's not like this is an "off-year" for Upton. He's been regressing like crazy since his 2007 season. A year and a half of him will cost you less than a 2-month Beltran rental for a reason. Beltran is a much, much, much better player, even a decade older.

I don't understand what Upton has shown anyone that would say he'll suddenly come to Philly and hit .300.

I never heard Beltran was linked to steroids. Where'd you hear that?

There have been many instances with his ties to the arrested and convicted Canadian PED peddling Dr. Galea who wasn't even licensed in US working with names already proven PED users. The names on the list shouldn't shock anyone, but of course anyone NOT proven yet, denied even though they are amongst a who's who of PED users and used a doc not even allowed to practice medicine in the US. OK, sure.

There are many other sources, but this site sums it up pretty well with more of the 23 names. Anthony Galea, M.D., PED PhD (http://www.steroidsources.com/Steroid-Information/2011/07/mlb-want-to-scrutinize-baseball-players-treated-by-controversial-doctors/)

[JimBeam]

Not sure why we would discuss something even you don't think will happen? Of course a GM/team can offer less and get laughed at by Reyes and his agent. I responded bc he'll surely find a good contract out there and not have to have it be an incentive laden contract at this point in his career. Those contracts are more for players like Frank Thomas at his tail end, or guys with HUGE injury concerns but clearly talented so they load up a HUGE contract if the guy plays. Opt outs are dumb as well for players versus some steady money.

Aaron Hill had his big year with the Jays and got a great contract as he continued to be on the upswing. Only problem is they talked him into opt outs and options all over it to protect them, not him, and he and his agent are getting f'd of his past value right now. It saved my Jays from a very bad contract, but man did they f up with that contract. JPR actually had a savvy contract with that one and Hill will never see the money he could have if he refused the opts which he truly could have at the time. They probably convinced him that he too wanted them with his value and they would be happy to work it out. Only they wouldn't and covered their own ass.

He's going to be elsewhere next year at a VERY reduced rate versus the three years at 8, 8 and 10 million. A good agent finds guaranteed money for those years, even if at 7 per versus these options. He'll be lucky to make even close next year.

I don't KNOW that anything will happen. I can only speculate.

I wasn't sure if what I had suggested was something the union would frown upon much like it did Rodriguez trying to take less money from the Red Sox.

If the idea wasn't against the rules it should be what the Mets do. That way when/if he turns them down they can tell their fans they tried. Said fans can then watch Reyes in a Phillies uniform 4 years from now batting .246 with 7 steals.

I can also HOPE that maybe teams will start coming to their senses and stop paying money just to pay it.

I don't care if they use collusion or not. Let's get this under control.

[spoon]

I think the injury is a big deal. His legs are such a huge part of his game, and he's proven over and over again that they're something to be concerned about in terms of a long-term deal.

If I had to guess, I'd say he tests free-agency and ultimately re-signs with the Mets for 5/$90.

he'll get more than 100 million, bank on that

2009 was the one year he played in less than 133 games when a full-time starter, so yah, people have a weird memory on his injuries. He'll always get dinged up with the style he plays as with most people who harness speed as part of their game. He plays through most of it to the tune of a just under .300 batting average coming off back to back all-star years and more importantly a great showing this year.

You say it's bc he uses his legs the injury is big, but he's back and showing he's back and playing even batter in less than two weeks. How is that such a scare to you? Oh and he's in his prime right now and a five year contract puts him at 33. If you ask me, plenty of people will go after him and he'll get at least a 100 million over 5 unless he gives a home discount or goes to a stacked team for a shot at a Series title.

[spoon]

I don't KNOW that anything will happen. I can only speculate.

I wasn't sure if what I had suggested was something the union would frown upon much like it did Rodriguez trying to take less money from the Red Sox.

If the idea wasn't against the rules it should be what the Mets do. That way when/if he turns them down they can tell their fans they tried. Said fans can then watch Reyes in a Phillies uniform 4 years from now batting .246 with 7 steals.

I can also HOPE that maybe teams will start coming to their senses and stop paying money just to pay it.

I don't care if they use collusion or not. Let's get this under control.

No shot he's at .246 and especially 7 steals in 4 years (2015). You're saying at 32 he'll be so slow he can't steal more than 7 bases. That's completely hyperbole I hope. We really need to tag some of these claims if people are being serious.

Paul f'n Molitor at 42 put up 9 stolen bases in only 126 games in his final contract year and he was never CLOSE to as fast as Reyes. I'd take that bet 50 times over right now.

[JimBeam]

Vince Coleman was faster than Paul Molitor as well. Doesn't mean we start comparing the 2.

And remember, you can't steal 1st base.

[spoon]

Vince Coleman was faster than Paul Molitor as well. Doesn't mean we start comparing the 2.

And remember, you can't steal 1st base.

sure you can

bunt, infield hit...leg it out buddy

[spoon]

And Vince had 50 steals at 32 with 115 games, 42 steals at 33 with 104 games so sure we can look into that.

Reyes had one year with less than 133 gams once a full-time starter. And even with only 36 games he stole 11. So sure thing, 7 steals at 32 years old.

[foodcourtdruide]

he'll get more than 100 million, bank on that

2009 was the one year he played in less than 133 games when a full-time starter, so yah, people have a weird memory on his injuries. He'll always get dinged up with the style he plays as with most people who harness speed as part of their game. He plays through most of it to the tune of a just under .300 batting average coming off back to back all-star years and more importantly a great showing this year.

You say it's bc he uses his legs the injury is big, but he's back and showing he's back and playing even batter in less than two weeks. How is that such a scare to you? Oh and he's in his prime right now and a five year contract puts him at 33. If you ask me, plenty of people will go after him and he'll get at least a 100 million over 5 unless he gives a home discount or goes to a stacked team for a shot at a Series title.

Then it would go to 6 years. You think he'll be making $20m+ a year?

He'll be 2 years removed from an injury that sidelined him for more than 75% of the season, and since he's been on the DL multiple times.

[foodcourtdruide]

And Vince had 50 steals at 32 with 115 games, 42 steals at 33 with 104 games so sure we can look into that.

Reyes had one year with less than 133 gams once a full-time starter. And even with only 36 games he stole 11. So sure thing, 7 steals at 32 years old.

Steals are not the reason Reyes is going to command such a large contract.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

sure you can

bunt, infield hit...leg it out buddy

Also Strikeout but ball gets past catcher

[Earlshog]

or if you're playing the Yankees hit it six inches away from the shortstop... Either side will suffice. :innocent:

[spoon]

or if you're playing the Yankees hit it six inches away from the shortstop... Either side will suffice. :innocent:

Hell you even get credit for a hit if it bounces out of his glove so he can get more bs gold gloves.

[Donnie Iris]

Remarkable how well the Buccos are playing this late into the season. That is all.

[TripleSkeet]

Upton is not good though. He's hitting .226 and everyone says he has a bad attitude and dogs it. Also, it's not like this is an "off-year" for Upton. He's been regressing like crazy since his 2007 season. A year and a half of him will cost you less than a 2-month Beltran rental for a reason. Beltran is a much, much, much better player, even a decade older.

I don't understand what Upton has shown anyone that would say he'll suddenly come to Philly and hit .300.

I never heard Beltran was linked to steroids. Where'd you hear that?

They were talking about Upton today on WIP. I would take him over Beltran in a minute. His problems are mostly attitude. Even when his games off you can see hes got a ton of talent. He would be perfect for the Phillies because it would be a risk but they would be buying low on high talent. His shit aint going to fly in this kibnd of locker room. Guys like Rollins, Utley and Halladay would straighten his ass out if he tried any bullshit.

The reason I like him over Beltran is hes a talent you can keep if he does well. No matter what Beltran does hes a rental. If my teams going to get a rental then I dont want them giving up anything valuable for it.

[spoon]

They were talking about Upton today on WIP. I would take him over Beltran in a minute. His problems are mostly attitude. Even when his games off you can see hes got a ton of talent. He would be perfect for the Phillies because it would be a risk but they would be buying low on high talent. His shit aint going to fly in this kibnd of locker room. Guys like Rollins, Utley and Halladay would straighten his ass out if he tried any bullshit.

The reason I like him over Beltran is hes a talent you can keep if he does well. No matter what Beltran does hes a rental. If my teams going to get a rental then I dont want them giving up anything valuable for it.

This sounds pretty familiar...hmmmmm


The one exception is Maddon is a one hell of a coach and I'm sure he's worked hard with Upton. Yah sure the team isn't even CLOSE to the vet presence and workhorses Philly has, but I think it's the change of team and location that will help the most.

[KingModem]

Texas Rangers beat the Minnesota Twins 20-6. Twins pitching so terrible, they bring in Michael Cuddyer who pitches the second scoreless inning of the game with a 0 in the 8th.

[foodcourtdruide]

They were talking about Upton today on WIP. I would take him over Beltran in a minute. His problems are mostly attitude. Even when his games off you can see hes got a ton of talent. He would be perfect for the Phillies because it would be a risk but they would be buying low on high talent. His shit aint going to fly in this kibnd of locker room. Guys like Rollins, Utley and Halladay would straighten his ass out if he tried any bullshit.

The reason I like him over Beltran is hes a talent you can keep if he does well. No matter what Beltran does hes a rental. If my teams going to get a rental then I dont want them giving up anything valuable for it.

This sounds like a Yankees fan talking about Yankees mystique and tradition. Upton is an adult and has made his own decisions and has his own personality. The Rays also have some veteran players and I don't think Upton will just change and magically get better. He's not hitting .226 because he has a bad attitude, he's hitting .226 because he's not a very good player.

[TripleSkeet]

This sounds pretty familiar...hmmmmm


The one exception is Maddon is a one hell of a coach and I'm sure he's worked hard with Upton. Yah sure the team isn't even CLOSE to the vet presence and workhorses Philly has, but I think it's the change of team and location that will help the most.

Yea I was reinforcing your point.

[TripleSkeet]

This sounds like a Yankees fan talking about Yankees mystique and tradition. Upton is an adult and has made his own decisions and has his own personality. The Rays also have some veteran players and I don't think Upton will just change and magically get better. He's not hitting .226 because he has a bad attitude, he's hitting .226 because he's not a very good player.

No. This has nothing to do with mystique or tradition or the fact its the Phillies. Its the personalities in the clubhouse, what the team has accomplished, and what they are poised to accomplish. Utley is quiet but gruff. Halladay is the type of guy to tell him to shut the fuck up. And Jimmy Rollins has the personality to take him under his wing, and let him know if he needs to change his attitude. Youve also got Howard, Lee, and Victorino there as well. These guys have won and lost a World Series together. They have a great chance at winning another one this year. They arent going to let some kid come in and disrupt the clubhouse.

Now does that mean its guaranteed to work? No. Does it mean hes just gonna start hitting .300? No. But he has the talent. And Philly has the kind of team that may be able to get him back on track. Its a risk vs reward type of thing.

It reminds me of when the 93 Phils got Eisenreich. He was an ok player but he never felt comfortable in the clubhouse til he came here. That was the right group of guys for him, and he played extremely well for them that year.

[A.J.]

Remarkable how well the Buccos are playing this late into the season. That is all.

My bartender is a Pittsburgh guy so we watch all of the games. It's been fun to watch all season. I'm hooked!

[Snacks]

No. This has nothing to do with mystique or tradition or the fact its the Phillies. Its the personalities in the clubhouse, what the team has accomplished, and what they are poised to accomplish. Utley is quiet but gruff. Halladay is the type of guy to tell him to shut the fuck up. And Jimmy Rollins has the personality to take him under his wing, and let him know if he needs to change his attitude. Youve also got Howard, Lee, and Victorino there as well. These guys have won and lost a World Series together. They have a great chance at winning another one this year. They arent going to let some kid come in and disrupt the clubhouse.

Now does that mean its guaranteed to work? No. Does it mean hes just gonna start hitting .300? No. But he has the talent. And Philly has the kind of team that may be able to get him back on track. Its a risk vs reward type of thing.

It reminds me of when the 93 Phils got Eisenreich. He was an ok player but he never felt comfortable in the clubhouse til he came here. That was the right group of guys for him, and he played extremely well for them that year.

really? I would say Rollins is the same type of guy with a little less attitude but at one time was just like him. Halladay doesnt seem like the kind of guy that would tell anyone anything. He seems to be more like a quiet guy who will just go out every 5th day and do his job.

[cougarjake13]

My bartender is a Pittsburgh guy so we watch all of the games. It's been fun to watch all season. I'm hooked!

barry bonds aint walking through that door !

bobby bonilla aint walking through that door !

andy van slyke aint walking through that door !

[Dirtbag]

Having a Yankee throw a perfect game will ruin my enjoyment of the Giants getting their heads kicked in.

Edit: Oh good, I jinxed it.

[cougarjake13]

Having a Yankee throw a perfect game will ruin my enjoyment of the Giants getting their heads kicked in.

Edit: Oh good, I jinxed it.



the new jinxy !

[TripleSkeet]

really? I would say Rollins is the same type of guy with a little less attitude but at one time was just like him. Halladay doesnt seem like the kind of guy that would tell anyone anything. He seems to be more like a quiet guy who will just go out every 5th day and do his job.

Rollins was kind of like him, but hes learned and matured. Hed be the perfect guy to help him get his focus back. From what I hear about Halladay they say hes the type of guy that if an Upton was causing locker room shit he would just tell him to shut the fuck up, that comes from people that actually are in the know. They say Utley is more of the quiet guy that would just give him a look more then a verbal beating.

[TripleSkeet]

My bartender is a Pittsburgh guy so we watch all of the games. It's been fun to watch all season. I'm hooked!

Playoff hockey is amazing but I think overachieving baseball is just as much fun to watch.

[TripleSkeet]

Am I the only one following this Braves / Bucs game in the 19th??? Braves are leaking oil bad. Prado 0-9 so far.

[Dirtbag]

Worst. Call. Ever.

[TripleSkeet]

Youve gotta be fucking kidding me with that call. That umpire should be fucking lynched.

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/670132/HomeTag2.gif.opt.gif

[Donnie Iris]

Youve gotta be fucking kidding me with that call. That umpire should be fucking lynched.

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/670132/HomeTag2.gif.opt.gif

It really was unreal. I run a bar and no one knew what to do. I'm drunk now because of it. What the fuck happened to miss that call?

[Snacks]

Youve gotta be fucking kidding me with that call. That umpire should be fucking lynched.

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/670132/HomeTag2.gif.opt.gif

I dont know looking at that video he does seem to miss the tag. There is no way he should have missed the tag but I think he did.

[spoon]

Rollins was kind of like him, but hes learned and matured. Hed be the perfect guy to help him get his focus back. From what I hear about Halladay they say hes the type of guy that if an Upton was causing locker room shit he would just tell him to shut the fuck up, that comes from people that actually are in the know. They say Utley is more of the quiet guy that would just give him a look more then a verbal beating.

Yah, Halladay makes his voice heard when needed. One crazy example of this was when the kids and Marcum said they actually LOVED the guy, but man there was more levity with the pitchers once he left bc he takes it all so serious. Some made strides in the looser environment, but others needed his push and regressed. Still, I'm not so sure his impact would go so far as to influence position players in such a way. Sure in spring training and clubhouse from time to time, but to me you'll need that position player to do this work with Upton...or many. The good news is, the Phils have it.

Yet like I said before with this situation, the mere fact he'd be getting new life playing for a second team and a chance to leave the past behind I think would have the greatest impact. We'll see if this even happens, let alone how he adjusts. Still, his talent is truly there and I wouldn't judge him on one year, but his raw skills, age, potential and contract. To me, well worth the risk. I'd take him in Toronto right now.

[spoon]

Selig idiocy strikes every time MLB gets exposed like this not using vid replay for HUGE plays like this. Even Meals has stated he may have missed the call. I just don't understand why it's so fucking hard to have one guy in a booth, a fucking ref/umps in all sports (rotation) to review important plays throughout games and no more real bad timing issues/wastes, no more stupid NFL refs under that stupid hood and no more awful missed game changing calls in MLB.

[A.J.]

barry bonds aint walking through that door !

If Bonds ever walked through a door in Pittsburgh, he'd have bottles of Iron City hurled at his steroid-enlarged skull.

[realmenhatelife]

On Upton's prospects of coming to Philly and attitude Charlie Manuel is known for being a good players coach and would be a good hitting mentor for Upton, and if your attitude doesn't improve going from playing in an empty, shitty dome to playing in a beautiful, constantly sold out park in a much better sports town for a contendor you should kill yourself. They may have to fill two outfield spots next year and Upton can play center, and his career numbers aren't that far off from Victorino's, lower average but better power and more stolen bases. They haven't run as aggressively the last two seasons and I think it's hurt them. I dont think you can give up Dom Brown for him but I do think he's underacheiving in Tampa and his problems are fixable, so this might be a time to get him underpriced. Then next year if you cant or wont resign Shane you have Brown, Upton, Mayberry in the outfield.

[TripleSkeet]

On Upton's prospects of coming to Philly and attitude Charlie Manuel is known for being a good players coach and would be a good hitting mentor for Upton, and if your attitude doesn't improve going from playing in an empty, shitty dome to playing in a beautiful, constantly sold out park in a much better sports town for a contendor you should kill yourself. They may have to fill two outfield spots next year and Upton can play center, and his career numbers aren't that far off from Victorino's, lower average but better power and more stolen bases. They haven't run as aggressively the last two seasons and I think it's hurt them. I dont think you can give up Dom Brown for him but I do think he's underacheiving in Tampa and his problems are fixable, so this might be a time to get him underpriced. Then next year if you cant or wont resign Shane you have Brown, Upton, Mayberry in the outfield.

Wheres Victorino going? Everyone Ive heard talk about it said Mayberry is not an everyday starting outfielder. Hes a 4th outfielder. I would however love to see Upton, Victorino and Brown in the outfield next year. This year you platoon Brown and Ibanez, and use Brown and Mayberry in the playoffs to pinch run in key situations. Youre right they dont steal as many bases as they used to and it definitely has hurt them.

[JimBeam]

Selig idiocy strikes every time MLB gets exposed like this not using vid replay for HUGE plays like this. Even Meals has stated he may have missed the call. I just don't understand why it's so fucking hard to have one guy in a booth, a fucking ref/umps in all sports (rotation) to review important plays throughout games and no more real bad timing issues/wastes, no more stupid NFL refs under that stupid hood and no more awful missed game changing calls in MLB.

They said that there's a reply from the dugout side that really makes the tag questionable and surely makes it inconclusive enough to overturn a call.

Yes the ball beat him by an hour, yes he does appear to apply a swipe tag but in the action it might've looked to the umpire like he missed him.

This isn't the worst call ever by any means.

Since the ball beat him by so much the catahcer should've been able to put on a manly tag so that there was no question. He ole'd it and paid the price.

A Pittsburgh sports guy was on Colin Cowherd this morning and essentually said the same thing.

[Donnie Iris]

Youve gotta be fucking kidding me with that call. That umpire should be fucking lynched.

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/670132/HomeTag2.gif.opt.gif

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2292245233474&set=p.2292245233474&type=1&theater

[foodcourtdruide]

Heavy rumors that Beltran is going to Giants for Gary Brown. So much for not getting an A-Level prospect.

[joeyballsack]

On Upton's prospects of coming to Philly and attitude Charlie Manuel is known for being a good players coach and would be a good hitting mentor for Upton, and if your attitude doesn't improve going from playing in an empty, shitty dome to playing in a beautiful, constantly sold out park in a much better sports town for a contendor you should kill yourself. They may have to fill two outfield spots next year and Upton can play center, and his career numbers aren't that far off from Victorino's, lower average but better power and more stolen bases. They haven't run as aggressively the last two seasons and I think it's hurt them. I dont think you can give up Dom Brown for him but I do think he's underacheiving in Tampa and his problems are fixable, so this might be a time to get him underpriced. Then next year if you cant or wont resign Shane you have Brown, Upton, Mayberry in the outfield.


Joe Madden is also a great players coach, so whats the difference ? Tampa might have shitty attendance, but its not as if he was on a terrible team. He was playing on a World Series caliber team already, so why would he all of a sudden be able to turn on all this dormant talent ?

[foodcourtdruide]

Joe Madden is also a great players coach, so whats the difference ? Tampa might have shitty attendance, but its not as if he was on a terrible team. He was playing on a World Series caliber team already, so why would he all of a sudden be able to turn on all this dormant talent ?

Exactly. This is totally the same as the "The Yankees are magical so players that come here will also be magical" argument.

[Earlshog]

Angels pitcher Ervin Santana is throwing a no-hitter against the Cleveland Indians through eight innings

[Snoogans]

he finished it too. no hitter, gave up a run though

[realmenhatelife]

Wheres Victorino going? Everyone Ive heard talk about it said Mayberry is not an everyday starting outfielder. Hes a 4th outfielder. I would however love to see Upton, Victorino and Brown in the outfield next year. This year you platoon Brown and Ibanez, and use Brown and Mayberry in the playoffs to pinch run in key situations. Youre right they dont steal as many bases as they used to and it definitely has hurt them.

Mayberry is a good bench guy, he can run and play first base if you need him to. I just like him and wish he could get his offense to a place where he can be an every day player. I thought Shane was a free agent this year, I'm just imagining scenerios.

Joe Madden is also a great players coach, so whats the difference ? Tampa might have shitty attendance, but its not as if he was on a terrible team. He was playing on a World Series caliber team already, so why would he all of a sudden be able to turn on all this dormant talent ?

Exactly. This is totally the same as the "The Yankees are magical so players that come here will also be magical" argument.

It has nothing to do with the magic touch of Charlie Manuel, or any Yankees bullshit. Some guys just click better in some places, they're scouting Upton and someone might have an idea of a way he could be utilized better to help him fulfill his potential. It's what coaches do.

His output was undeniably better in the playoffs/world series, playing in front of full houses. You could bring him to a place where he gets that consistantly, yes I do believe that would improve his numbers. Noone is saying get him at any cost, they're saying make a positive move.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Looks like the Yankees are going to break the M's streak


Thanks Hughes

:wallbash::wallbash::wallbash::wallbash:

[Earlshog]

Scott Miller confirms that the Giants have a deal in place to acquire Mets OF Carlos Beltran. Mets get Zach Wheeler and pick up much of $9M owed Beltran

[foodcourtdruide]

Scott Miller confirms that the Giants have a deal in place to acquire Mets OF Carlos Beltran. Mets get Zach Wheeler and pick up much of $9M owed Beltran

Absolute steal for the Mets. Great deal by Alderson. He got an A prospect.

[Jujubees2]

How about that ugly no hitter by Santana today?

[JimBeam]

Looks like the Yankees are going to break the M's streak


Thanks Hughes

:wallbash::wallbash::wallbash::wallbash:

Hughes only gave up 2 runs in 6 innings.

Looks like the bullpen collapsed.

Wade, 2 runs in 1/3 of an inning
Logan, 3 runs in 1/3 of an inning
Noesi, 2 runs in 1 inning

[Donnie Iris]

I dont know looking at that video he does seem to miss the tag. There is no way he should have missed the tag but I think he did.

Nope, he got him.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/6808357/mlb-acknowledges-jerry-meals-missed-call-pittsburgh-pirates-file-complaint-19-inning-loss

[Snacks]

ESPN just did a top 10 list of worse calls in the history of baseballs. 5 out of the top 10 calls were in yankee games and all 5 of those went the yanks way when they should have gone the other way. They get every single fucking call even the most obvious wrong calls go their way!

[spoon]

Hughes only gave up 2 runs in 6 innings.

Looks like the bullpen collapsed.

Wade, 2 runs in 1/3 of an inning
Logan, 3 runs in 1/3 of an inning
Noesi, 2 runs in 1 inning

WF doesn't go on fact, he probably saw the yanks lost and drew instant conclusions as he does in every situation.

Oh and NASTY steal by the Jays today to get Rasmus. He had a fallout with that drunk in St. Louis and we got him on the cheap. Every guy but Stewart was extremely expendable and or a free agent at year's end. If we get his head on straight, this kid will be our next Escobar move and I'm LOVING the deal. Only problem is Tallet was forced into the package so we pick up some shit salary from what I read. Fuck me, I HATE Tallet! Yet worth finally having a CF who can field. Gose is at least a few years away, and by then the Jay's will simply move Ras to the DH/corner outfield positions if he works out. That Jay outfield has slowly evolved from AWFUL to decent and now pretty solid. If Batista moves back when Lawrie comes up, we'll have Snider/Rasmus/Batista in the OF, with the subs of Thames (rookie) and Davis. All I can say is nice.

[spoon]

ESPN just did a top 10 list of worse calls in the history of baseballs. 5 out of the top 10 calls were in yankee games and all 5 of those went the yanks way when they should have gone the other way. They get every single fucking call even the most obvious wrong calls go their way!

And it happens every fucking day. It's what I now call the Jordan rule of sports. They didn't even include the Jeter/Posada tag at home of Giambi I bet!?

[Snacks]

And it happens every fucking day. It's what I now call the Jordan rule of sports. They didn't even include the Jeter/Posada tag at home of Giambi I bet!?

nope I was waiting for that 1. They had the pine tar incedent, the jeter hr that wasnt when that fat little fat fuck reached over the wall, the Knoblauch phantom tag that he missed by 3 feet, the posada, cano both at 3rd and both not touching the bag but cano being called safe even though they were both out and the 5th 1 was a play I dont remember well but I think it was a ss throwing to first and the reggie jackson running to 2nd and he sticks his hip/ass out on purpose to have the ball hit him so the guy running to 1st is safe since jackson was already thrown out at 2nd.

watching shit like that pisses me off so much! like they dont get enough help because as it is?

I also think all those calls were in the post season helping them get even more undeserved WS rings!

[foodcourtdruide]

ESPN just did a top 10 list of worse calls in the history of baseballs. 5 out of the top 10 calls were in yankee games and all 5 of those went the yanks way when they should have gone the other way. They get every single fucking call even the most obvious wrong calls go their way!

Was the Galarraga call #1?

[Snacks]

Was the Galarraga call #1?

No it wasnt

I just found this. This list is almost the exact same list espn used today but they added the reggie jackson ass hit which made the yanks have 5. This list the yanks only have 4.

http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-worst-calls-in-baseball-history.php

[spoon]

Now add to that this effect includes balls and strikes calls effectively making pitching harder for one team, and easy for the other. It's not all the time, but often.

[cougarjake13]

If Bonds ever walked through a door in Pittsburgh, he'd have bottles of Iron City hurled at his steroid-enlarged skull.

why ?


bc he left for sf ?

[Dirtbag]

How about that ugly no hitter by Santana today?

The first inning was a disaster but otherwise he threw a great game.

[spoon]

the blue jays just got the benefit of a meals type call at third

f'n mlb is a joke

[cougarjake13]

hey spoon do you know anything bout the prospect the mets got for beltran ?

[cougarjake13]

if batista hits a grand slam right now spoon will cum in his pants and cap off a nice day

[spoon]

hey spoon do you know anything bout the prospect the mets got for beltran ?

Nothing outside of what was reported. He's immediately the highest ranked prospect in the Mets org now and a top 50 in MLB according to reports. They also call him a "hard thrower" transitioning to being a pitcher.

[spoon]

if batista hits a grand slam right now spoon will cum in his pants and cap off a nice day

I would have rather seen Farrell f'n have arencibia lay down a bunt and the Jays would already have had at least one insurance run by now.

F' that was a nice pitch.

[cougarjake13]

I would have rather seen Farrell f'n have arencibia lay down a bunt and the Jays would already have had at least one insurance run by now.

F' that was a nice pitch.

yeh it was



and with only a 3 run lead you should be going for the extra insurance runs and not hope joey bats jacks one out

[spoon]

yeh it was



and with only a 3 run lead you should be going for the extra insurance runs and not hope joey bats jacks one out

They lost soooo many games by not getting those insurance runs too. The thing is, he could be swinging for the fences with less to lose if they had developed the run with the bunt/Escobar hit as it should have gone versus the on base free swinging nightmare Arencibia doing just that. Situational hitting for him isn't even in his vocabulary, and I blame the coach. I get he has power, but late in a game up 3 with runners on 1st and 2nd no outs and your hottest hitter of late/2nd on year in Escobar up next, you move the damn runners. Your the #9 hitter for a reason right now.

E5 is even worse and they should have traded him simply to have the story cleanse the team cathartically. He swings harder in 0-2 counts and never seems to have a hitter friendly count.

[Snoogans]

nope I was waiting for that 1. They had the pine tar incedent, the jeter hr that wasnt when that fat little fat fuck reached over the wall, the Knoblauch phantom tag that he missed by 3 feet, the posada, cano both at 3rd and both not touching the bag but cano being called safe even though they were both out and the 5th 1 was a play I dont remember well but I think it was a ss throwing to first and the reggie jackson running to 2nd and he sticks his hip/ass out on purpose to have the ball hit him so the guy running to 1st is safe since jackson was already thrown out at 2nd.

watching shit like that pisses me off so much! like they dont get enough help because as it is?

I also think all those calls were in the post season helping them get even more undeserved WS rings!

the pine tar incident was reversed though. and thats a hell of alot different than any calls in the run of play. I dont think that should even be included. If you ever been to the HOF, they put a ring on the bat where the actual limit is and the pinetar is like .0000000000001 inch below the line. that wasnt really a terrible call

[spoon]

Wow I just can't get any more pissed at Farrell and his choices. He has Romero come in to pitch the ninth in a 3-0 game WELL over 100 pitches and only up 3-0. He pulls him clearly out of gas AFTER he puts two guys on and at ~ 130 f'n pitches just to try getting him a complete game shutout!? Fuck personal stats, especially with a young arm! I don't get it at all.

Then tack on the fact that he NEVER produced any insurance runs as per the norm with a shitty bullpen, and you see why he made another stupid choice. It's unreal they have blown 17 saves this year (most by far) based on bad choices, bad pitchers and no fucking direction. Farrell never gets those extra insurance runs and never locks down on a guy to get a good run at closing. It's fucking infuriating. He was a pitching coach for f's sake!

They got bailed out by Rauch, but man did the last guy just miss tying it on the last pitch. All in all though, just another near miss that shouldn't have been close...at all.

[spoon]

<object height="81" width="100%"> <param name="movie" value="http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ft racks%2F19856384"></param> <param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param> <embed allowscriptaccess="always" height="81" src="http://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ft racks%2F19856384" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="100%"></embed> </object> <span><a href="http://soundcloud.com/buck65/joey-bats">Joey Bats</a> by <a href="http://soundcloud.com/buck65">buck65</a></span>

[A.J.]

why ?


bc he left for sf ?

That and because his lame ass throw that couldn't beat out Sid Bream destroyed the franchise.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Just got a text from one of my friends he said that Hideki Irabu found dead of a suicide

[Misteriosa]

Just got a text from one of my friends he said that Hideki Irabu found dead of a suicide

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/28/hideki-irabu-found-dead-suicide-suspected/

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Heard on Michael Kay show that the reason why Japanese pitchers dont do well in MLB is because in Japan they pitch every 7 days and are not tied down to a pitch count.


Also Kei Igawa is still with the Yankees organization hes with AAA Scranton

[spoon]

Heard on Michael Kay show that the reason why Japanese pitchers dont do well in MLB is because in Japan they pitch every 7 days and are not tied down to a pitch count.


Also Kei Igawa is still with the Yankees organization hes with AAA Scranton

The yankee's minor league teams must have higher payrolls than the bottom MLB teams.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The yankee's minor league teams must have higher payrolls than the bottom MLB teams.


They said he still lives in NYC and when Scranton is at home he goes back and forth, Thats like 2 hr drive w/o traffic each way

[spoon]

They said he still lives in NYC and when Scranton is at home he goes back and forth, Thats like 2 hr drive w/o traffic each way

Well that's insane bc there is a huge amount of construction on 80 both directions and the gap itself can be a nightmare. I'm sure he has a spot out there bc it's DIRT CHEAP. If not, he's as stupid as his contract.

[razorboy]

Phillies acquire Hunter Pence for four prospects including Singleton and Cosart. (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110729&content_id=22477548&vkey=tradedeadline2011&c_id=mlb)

[spoon]

Big day for Philly sports but man is that farm system bare right now.

[TripleSkeet]

Ed Wade has done more for this team since he left then he did when he was GM here. Just heard this...

@jaysonst: #Astros sent $2 million to #Phillies to help pay Pence's salary, source says. So Phillies won't owe tax & have $ for right reliever #trades

Hear they are looking at Giambi for a HR threat off the bench. Personally Id rather have Thome.

[cougarjake13]

Big day for Philly sports but man is that farm system bare right now.

if theyre able to pull out one more title from this core group would you say it was worth it ?

[spoon]

if theyre able to pull out one more title from this core group would you say it was worth it ?

of course

and I'm rooting for them

[TripleSkeet]

of course

and I'm rooting for them

:drunk:

[razorboy]

Ubaldo Jimenez traded to Tribe. (http://colorado.rockies.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110730&content_id=22531086&vkey=news_col&c_id=col)

Good for them for trying, I guess. His four-seam velo has dropped four mph or so since the first half of last year and he still has command issues, but he's youngish and signed to a relatively affordable deal.

[Earlshog]

Big day for Philly sports but man is that farm system bare right now.

they still have a chip or two... dosent really matter they are set now for the next two years everywhere except SS and 3rd. Figure they should be able to retain Rollins and Madson with Ibanez and Lidge coming off the books.

[cougarjake13]

verlander tossing another no-no

aybar tries to bunt to get on

verlander throws away and credited with error


score is 3-0 in 8th so its not a bush league move

[disneyspy]

verlander tossing another no-no

aybar tries to bunt to get on

verlander throws away and credited with error


score is 3-0 in 8th so its not a bush league move

i know,watching that game,FUCK,it sucked cuz i had just put on my verlander jersey,i feel like hippo

[disneyspy]

and verlander drops the ball on a run down

[cougarjake13]

that strike out shoulda been the 3rd out

[disneyspy]

there goes the no hitter and now the pitching coach is coming out,HOLY SHIT WHAT A HORRIBLE CALL AT HOME,FUCKER WAS OUT!! i swear the umps are bad at tigers home games with no nos on the line

[A.J.]

Jesus, Verlander almost threw ANOTHER one?

[disneyspy]

Jesus, Verlander almost threw ANOTHER one?

ya,in the 8th inning he was throwing every other ball at 100+ mph,both runs that scored were unearned

[Earlshog]

Verlander is a beast

[disneyspy]

yes red sox,now if the royals can hold off the indians this will be a good day

[spoon]

Ubaldo Jimenez traded to Tribe. (http://colorado.rockies.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110730&content_id=22531086&vkey=news_col&c_id=col)

Good for them for trying, I guess. His four-seam velo has dropped four mph or so since the first half of last year and he still has command issues, but he's youngish and signed to a relatively affordable deal.

relatively affordable? come on, there are lefty specialist relievers making more per year right now

his contract is beyond good even in 2013

[spoon]

i know,watching that game,FUCK,it sucked cuz i had just put on my verlander jersey,i feel like hippo

you should feel like a fag more

[razorboy]

relatively affordable? come on, there are lefty specialist relievers making more per year right now

his contract is beyond good even in 2013

Yeah, I just looked at Cot's and his deal is much better than I thought. He still would worry me more than a little were I an Indians fan. His mechanics are all kinds of wrong and I'm not optimistic that his arm has a whole lot left, even at only 27. O'Dowd got a lot for him with White and Pomeranz in the deal, but especially after seeing how team friendly the contract is I wonder if DO'D doesn't have similar concerns about his longevity.

[spoon]

Yeah, I just looked at Cot's and his deal is much better than I thought. He still would worry me more than a little were I an Indians fan. His mechanics are all kinds of wrong and I'm not optimistic that his arm has a whole lot left, even at only 27. O'Dowd got a lot for him with White and Pomeranz in the deal, but especially after seeing how team friendly the contract is I wonder if DO'D doesn't have similar concerns about his longevity.

Well, his recent downturn is reason enough for concern, but I really can't comment that much. For some reason I never got much exposure to him when he was on, and even now when off. So I can't comment really beyond the stats out there, bc I don't like guessing on things I haven't witnessed at least a little myself.

Nice to see teams like Cleveland and Pitt actually adding players and blocking some other normal players from just taking what they want for very little.

Hell, even the Jays got involved in the trade market, but AA has truly been a very good GM since arriving. Sure Toronto gave up some value in the moves, but man did they stock the system and the team overall with youth and ability. Love the new look Jays and how they are evolving. Next year might be a little too soon to compete, but it's not out of the question. My guess is 2012 or 2013 the Jays become a real player in the AL East and especially the WC race. If they get moved into another division, they are instant contenders.

[spoon]

Contract info and question on Arod.

First off, I just checked out total salary earned for a few players and his is INSANE!

He'll make just under 300 million by 2017, not counting his many endorsements and memorabilia money. 300 million!!

My question is this, how does this clause work in his current contract?

$30m in marketing bonuses for HR milestones from 660 HR to 763HR

It states "bonuses", so are there multiple 30 million dollar bonus marks or a total of 30 mill for hitting multiple marks? It's confusing, but even if he does hit this, it'll be pretty much a nice chunk of change for more yankee glory press which you know they love.

[spoon]

there goes the no hitter and now the pitching coach is coming out,HOLY SHIT WHAT A HORRIBLE CALL AT HOME,FUCKER WAS OUT!! i swear the umps are bad at tigers home games with no nos on the line

out at home?? what are you talking about?

Oh and Guillen is a bitch! I don't think the Ordonez was really trying to show up Weaver, but really was seeing if the ball was staying fair. Guillen didn't need to do what he did and I'd hit him every game if the situation allows the next time playing Detroit.

Verlander though, what a year he's having. I really hope he or Weaver gets the Cy over that fat ass in NY.

[razorboy]

Contract info and question on Arod.

First off, I just checked out total salary earned for a few players and his is INSANE!

He'll make just under 300 million by 2017, not counting his many endorsements and memorabilia money. 300 million!!

My question is this, how does this clause work in his current contract?



It states "bonuses", so are there multiple 30 million dollar bonus marks or a total of 30 mill for hitting multiple marks? It's confusing, but even if he does hit this, it'll be pretty much a nice chunk of change for more yankee glory press which you know they love.

This is from Cot's.

$30M marketing agreement based on home run milestones ($6M each for reaching 660, 714, 755 and tying and breaking major league HR record)

So $6Mil each for tying Mays, Ruth, Aaron, Bonds and for passing Bonds. Crazy.

[spoon]

This is from Cot's.



So $6Mil each for tying Mays, Ruth, Aaron, Bonds and for passing Bonds. Crazy.

His agent has surely done his job over the years and leaves nothing out.

Unreal. That just means you can expect to see a TON of fanfare at every milestone.

[spoon]

This is from Cot's.


Cot's?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

out at home?? what are you talking about?

Oh and Guillen is a bitch! I don't think the Ordonez was really trying to show up Weaver, but really was seeing if the ball was staying fair. Guillen didn't need to do what he did and I'd hit him every game if the situation allows the next time playing Detroit.

Verlander though, what a year he's having. I really hope he or Weaver gets the Cy over that fat ass in NY.

All are having great years. Weavers ERA is under 2. Thats fucking sick especially in the AL

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Texas is looking even better with getting Adams and Uehara. Their bullpen has got to be one of the best in the league now

[TripleSkeet]

His agent has surely done his job over the years and leaves nothing out.

Unreal. That just means you can expect to see a TON of fanfare at every milestone.



I wonder how many jerkoffs will give him back those balls for nothing after he just made 6mil for hitting them.

[Snacks]

I wonder how many jerkoffs will give him back those balls for nothing after he just made 6mil for hitting them.

if this is about Arod then no one is giving him the ball but if this is Jeter you have tons of assholes who think of him as the 2nd coming of Jesus. After what happened with his 3000 hit nothing would shock me when it comes to these assholes and him.

[razorboy]

Cot's?

Cot's Baseball Contracts (http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/)

They draw from and cross-check multiple reputable sources and put together a pretty accurate list of contracts and service time.

[Dirtbag]

The Diamondbacks are now one game back of San Fransisco and the national media still has it carved in stone that we will see a Phillies/Giants NLCS. Its fucking sickening.

[spoon]

The Diamondbacks are now one game back of San Fransisco and the national media still has it carved in stone that we will see a Phillies/Giants NLCS. Its fucking sickening.

But they're right at least in the fact that Arizona won't be there.

[Dirtbag]

Please. Philly is obviously the team to beat in the NL, but at this point any combination of AZ, SF, StL, Mil, Atl, and even Pit is a coin flip.

[spoon]

Please. Philly is obviously the team to beat in the NL, but at this point any combination of AZ, SF, StL, Mil, Atl, and even Pit is a coin flip.

wow, so polite!

if you take out St.L, AZ and Pitt in that coin flip you're right!

SF & Philly are the teamS to beat and hence the reason they get that attention and those expectations. I'd say AZ and Pitt are not even on the second tier of the playoff conversation, just feel good stories that will both probably have sad endings. St. Louis is dying on the vine if you ask me. Tons of talent, but huge loss in the rotation and getting old.

[TripleSkeet]

Atl. Is leaking oil. I doubt they're gonna make it. It also wouldn't surprise me to see SF upset by another team. I wouldn't sleep on AZ.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Anyone need a reliever?

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=At4Z4Mwdj4UMx2oyWDyziggRvLYF?slug=ap-rangers-rhodes

[spoon]

Atl. Is leaking oil. I doubt they're gonna make it. It also wouldn't surprise me to see SF upset by another team. I wouldn't sleep on AZ.

I think you're wrong on both, but we'll see. The only reason they have any shot at all is bc they play in the GOD AWFUL NL West and get to play SD, LA and Colorado so much. The NL East is way tougher and the Central still has too many teams and needs to be fixed. I just don't get Selig letting that go forever. Not to mention having only one WC and such unbalanced schedules.

[Dirtbag]

the Central still has too many teams and needs to be fixed.Nobody wants to move to the AL West and who can blame them.

[cougarjake13]

Nobody wants to move to the AL West and who can blame them.

why not?


ud be a contender almost every year

[Earlshog]

I think you're wrong on both, but we'll see. The only reason they have any shot at all is bc they play in the GOD AWFUL NL West and get to play SD, LA and Colorado so much. The NL East is way tougher and the Central still has too many teams and needs to be fixed. I just don't get Selig letting that go forever. Not to mention having only one WC and such unbalanced schedules.

I agree with you....As a Phillies fan I would love for SF and Atl not to make it (hell throw the Brew Crew in with them for that matter) but don't see it happening on any front. Az called up Paul Goldschmidt ( who had 30 Hrs and 95 rbis in AA) and he hit a homer last night. Maybe he can be the added piece they need.

[Earlshog]

The Phils are on Pace for 105 wins. The previous franchise high was 101 which they did twice in 1976 and 1977.

Here is your Phillies fun fact of the day

Those were the only two times in the team's 128 year history they won 100 or more. On the other hand the team has lost 100 14 times. :surrender:

[Snoogans]

ARod is a fuckin tool (http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/6830659/mlb-looking-alex-rodriguez-illegal-poker)

Major League Baseball is taking "very seriously" the allegations that Alex Rodriguez took part in some illegal, underground poker games, one of which reportedly turned violent, and could face suspension if his participation in the games is confirmed.

"We're talking to people involved in the investigation and we're taking this very seriously," said an MLB executive who spoke to ESPNNewYork.com on condition of anonymity. "Because he had been warned about this before, I would say a possible suspension would be very much in play."

In 2005, Rodriguez had been warned about gambling in underground poker clubs by the Yankees and by baseball commissioner Bud Selig, both of whom were concerned that possible involvement with gamblers who might be betting on baseball games could result in a Pete Rose-type lifetime ban from baseball.

Now, although baseball's investigation centers upon Rodriguez's card-playing and he is not thought to have gambled on the outcome of any baseball games, the fact that he may have disregarded Selig's warning is said to have angered the commissioner.

"Bud's totally fed up with him," said a baseball insider. "It's like there's something new with him every day and it's impossible to keep up with it."

MLB has yet to positively determine that Rodriguez took part in the games, which reportedly included actors Tobey Maguire, Leonardo DiCaprio, Ben Affleck and Matt Damon


WHY THE FUCK WOULDNT YOU JUST GO TO A CASINO YOU DUMB FUCK

And what a horribly gay 5 people for a poker game

[Snacks]

ARod is a fuckin tool (http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/6830659/mlb-looking-alex-rodriguez-illegal-poker)



WHY THE FUCK WOULDNT YOU JUST GO TO A CASINO YOU DUMB FUCK

And what a horribly gay 5 people for a poker game

because it happens all over the country. celebs get together and play for big money. im sure that underground game was real scary. leave the guy alone who cares? how many poker games did we have? its really no different except with much bigger $$$ amounts! why didnt we go to a casino? its the same shit they are no different then us they just have lots more money!

[Snoogans]

because it happens all over the country. celebs get together and play for big money. im sure that underground game was real scary. leave the guy alone who cares? how many poker games did we have? its really no different except with much bigger $$$ amounts! why didnt we go to a casino? its the same shit they are no different then us they just have lots more money!

clearly you didnt get hte point. its not that he played poker. Its that they told him not to do it illegally. You of all people should know that just because its rich famous people, doesnt mean people dont fight or do dumb shit.

We had a 20 dollar poker game where one person was so upset about losing he put a hole in a wall.

besides, the actual reason the MLB cares is because of something that sure, probably wouldnt happen. But lets just say some player who maybe doesnt have ARod money loses more than he can afford to one night. Then the host or whoever they owe says its ok, just tank this one game and ill bet on it. THATS why its a big deal

[Snacks]

clearly you didnt get hte point. its not that he played poker. Its that they told him not to do it illegally. You of all people should know that just because its rich famous people, doesnt mean people dont fight or do dumb shit.

We had a 20 dollar poker game where one person was so upset about losing he put a hole in a wall.

besides, the actual reason the MLB cares is because of something that sure, probably wouldnt happen. But lets just say some player who maybe doesnt have ARod money loses more than he can afford to one night. Then the host or whoever they owe says its ok, just tank this one game and ill bet on it. THATS why its a big deal

i guess but i would bet/hope that most of these "underground" poker games with guys like arod are usually with other celebs and not shady characters who cant afford to lose their money. but im sure there are times when shady characters are there who want to prove a point, so i see where youre coming from. i just see this as something that must happen all the time with the majority of these athletes. i just wonder why its arod getting called out and an article being written about him. if jeter was doing this there would be no article to try to pile on and make him look bad!

[Snoogans]

i guess but i would bet/hope that most of these "underground" poker games with guys like arod are usually with other celebs and not shady characters who cant afford to lose their money. but im sure there are times when shady characters are there who want to prove a point, so i see where youre coming from. i just see this as something that must happen all the time with the majority of these athletes. i just wonder why its arod getting called out and an article being written about him. if jeter was doing this there would be no article to try to pile on and make him look bad!

well the thing that got them interested in the first place was that someone lost 500K and refused to pay it. And it caused a fight

[Snacks]

well the thing that got them interested in the first place was that someone lost 500K and refused to pay it. And it caused a fight

must be nice. tell arod to come to one of our games instead he can have pizza and beer and some terrible play all while paying 20% more then he should!

[Snoogans]

must be nice. tell arod to come to one of our games instead he can have pizza and beer and some terrible play all while paying 20% more then he should!

you forgot about all the awful jokes we got for that 20%

[spoon]

i guess but i would bet/hope that most of these "underground" poker games with guys like arod are usually with other celebs and not shady characters who cant afford to lose their money. but im sure there are times when shady characters are there who want to prove a point, so i see where youre coming from. i just see this as something that must happen all the time with the majority of these athletes. i just wonder why its arod getting called out and an article being written about him. if jeter was doing this there would be no article to try to pile on and make him look bad!

I tried to post something about this earlier from my phone and it truly does come down to the gambling circles and those ties MLB wants nothing to do with bc of it's history. Bt Rose, the Black Sox and many other issues not brought to the forefront back in the days, MLB and Selig do not want any ins for this world into MLB. And I can GUARANTEE that where there is soft/easy celeb money thinking they can play poker, there are TONS of actual gamblers, some dirtier than others, playing or dying to get into those games. Damon and Afleck have been linked to losing money many times in these games to big names on the pro poker circuit with stories out there, I guess cause Arod is so clean he simply wouldn't allow it!? Nah, even the most naive person knows that where there is Hollywood fish, there are sharks.

Oh and as much as I loathe Jeter, he simply hasn't been linked to shit like this and or warned to just cut it out from the commish. It'd be one thing if THIS was the first time it was brought to light and the commish killed him for it. However it is not and I'm sure Selig put potential suspensions on the table if it continued to expose the league with these actions. You'd think after the whole Rose thing people would just do the legal shit. I mean these day casinos are all over the fucking place too.

[cougarjake13]

because it happens all over the country. celebs get together and play for big money. im sure that underground game was real scary. leave the guy alone who cares? how many poker games did we have? its really no different except with much bigger $$$ amounts! why didnt we go to a casino? its the same shit they are no different then us they just have lots more money!

yeh but no ones worried that u might tank ur job cause ur in debt to gamblers


which is the angle im sure we're gonna hear from mlb and selig

[TripleSkeet]

I would think this was a big deal until they mentioned who these games were with. Non issue. These guys aren't gonna go to a casino because they want to play and bet withou having schmucks like you and I in their game and knowing their business. The whole country plays in illegal poker games. It's stupid.

[Snoogans]

I would think this was a big deal until they mentioned who these games were with. Non issue. These guys aren't gonna go to a casino because they want to play and bet withou having schmucks like you and I in their game and knowing their business. The whole country plays in illegal poker games. It's stupid.

see you are missing the story. a game like you or i would play isnt illegal. This was, essentially, an illegal poker house. the house was gettin a rake. this was racketeering. And since there was coke and a fight broke out, now the feds are lookin ito it. You have to admit its pretty fuckin stupid for him to do that after he was told not to do it anymore. Plus it all goes back to, the games are run illegally. the guys playing might not be shady, but the guys running it sure as fuck are

[Snacks]

I would think this was a big deal until they mentioned who these games were with. Non issue. These guys aren't gonna go to a casino because they want to play and bet withou having schmucks like you and I in their game and knowing their business. The whole country plays in illegal poker games. It's stupid.

first of all poker games are not illegal no matter how much you bet. The only way a game can be illegal is if the house is taking a % of the pots or getting money from the gamblers. I cant bet any amount on anything as long as there is no vig or house making any %.

I really want to hear more about these games and why they keep saying "illegal". I think it is probably typical media reporting, they are using the word to make the general public think it is worse then it is or like usual to sensationalize the story!

[spoon]

first of all poker games are not illegal no matter how much you bet. The only way a game can be illegal is if the house is taking a % of the pots or getting money from the gamblers. I cant bet any amount on anything as long as there is no vig or house making any %.

I really want to hear more about these games and why they keep saying "illegal". I think it is probably typical media reporting, they are using the word to make the general public think it is worse then it is or like usual to sensationalize the story!

That's simply not true. In fact, even our games are considered illegal in NJ but nobody really gives a shit with 20/25 buck buy in games with 20 people for fun. While it varies from state to state, usually it requires a permit to do anything of this nature. And once you run up to 4, 5 and of course fucking 6+ figure games much less pots you can bet your ass you're in an illegal game and shady fucks are all around waiting to rip you off while twisting oreos.

[spoon]

I would think this was a big deal until they mentioned who these games were with. Non issue. These guys aren't gonna go to a casino because they want to play and bet withou having schmucks like you and I in their game and knowing their business. The whole country plays in illegal poker games. It's stupid.

The guys mentioned weren't the actual games TS come on. They too have been linked or involved in the past. I can promise you, casinos around the country have big table games with poker pros and big money all over, much less LV and AC. There is no chance they'd have to play us or even play on or near the floor. They usually set these up in suites high above the main floor of ham and eggers.

[Snacks]

That's simply not true. In fact, even our games are considered illegal in NJ but nobody really gives a shit with 20/25 buck buy in games with 20 people for fun. While it varies from state to state, usually it requires a permit to do anything of this nature. And once you run up to 4, 5 and of course fucking 6+ figure games much less pots you can bet your ass you're in an illegal game and shady fucks are all around waiting to rip you off while twisting oreos.

i dont know where you heard that from but i have been in many italian social clubs and have been involved in raids and the only places that have ever gotten busted are places that hve machines and places that the house gets a piece of the action.

[spoon]

i dont know where you heard that from but i have been in many italian social clubs and have been involved in raids and the only places that have ever gotten busted are places that hve machines and places that the house gets a piece of the action.

I think it's only bc it's more blatant and breaks more enforced laws. As most cops worth his salt won't bust a jaywalker, I doubt they have time to break up civil home games. If you have these games putting up HUGE money and illegal drugs all around, you're pretty much asking them to cuff you. Remember, in a casino the money is tracked and you pay tax on winning over a certain level. Here in lies more incentive to have issue with bigger games.

I'm not sure on the actual law for each state, but I'm sure that even small games are technically illegal in most states. While other states have even more strict rules on any form of gambling of property or money at all.

[Snacks]

I think it's only bc it's more blatant and breaks more enforced laws. As most cops worth his salt won't bust a jaywalker, I doubt they have time to break up civil home games. If you have these games putting up HUGE money and illegal drugs all around, you're pretty much asking them to cuff you. Remember, in a casino the money is tracked and you pay tax on winning over a certain level. Here in lies more incentive to have issue with bigger games.

I'm not sure on the actual law for each state, but I'm sure that even small games are technically illegal in most states. While other states have even more strict rules on any form of gambling of property or money at all.

as for the taxes its your responsibility to claim that on your taxes no matter what it is. gambling rules are based on state to state but there is nothing (from what i have been told by lawyers and cops) nothing illegal if you and i bet any amount on anything. I could bet you $1 million who will have more wins the eagles or charges and its not illegal. I guess I could be wrong but after being around this my whole life I have been told multiple times but people who should know that its fine.

Now add loan sharking, drugs, etc then yes but thats a whole different issue.

[spoon]

as for the taxes its your responsibility to claim that on your taxes no matter what it is. gambling rules are based on state to state but there is nothing (from what i have been told by lawyers and cops) nothing illegal if you and i bet any amount on anything. I could bet you $1 million who will have more wins the eagles or charges and its not illegal. I guess I could be wrong but after being around this my whole life I have been told multiple times but people who should know that its fine.

Now add loan sharking, drugs, etc then yes but thats a whole different issue.

Looks like we really need a lawyer to chime in or someone willing to google this bc we both have heard differently and aren't 100%. I know I'm not completely sure myself, just what I've always believed.

[Snacks]

Looks like we really need a lawyer to chime in or someone willing to google this bc we both have heard differently and aren't 100%. I know I'm not completely sure myself, just what I've always believed.

Im sure your boy tenbats knows!

[Snacks]

said poker game that was illegal and had all the bad shit happening at happened during the world series and arod wasnt even fucking there.

http://eye-on-baseball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22297882/31124327

[brettmojo]

said poker game that was illegal and had all the bad shit happening at happened during the world series and arod wasnt even fucking there.

http://eye-on-baseball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22297882/31124327

"I never played with him in a home game, but I know [someone who] witnessed him at one. It was an illegal house game," the source told the newspaper, who requested anonymity and didn't "want to get A-Rod in trouble."

What a non-story.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Selig has to go the man is a hack. When the Steroid issue / Mitchell report came up he was acting like the game was dishonored and that he would be the sheriff for MLB.

After the 94 stike a lot of fans were pissed off at the game. The year of Sosa McGwire brought a lot of fans back and MLB was making hand over fist in profits and people started coming back to the ballparks in droves.


Hes worn out his welcome, time for him to be ousted or retire.

[spoon]

said poker game that was illegal and had all the bad shit happening at happened during the world series and arod wasnt even fucking there.

http://eye-on-baseball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22297882/31124327

so says the guy who plays poker in other games with Arod

yah, smoke/fire

it's not a non-story at all, unless we want to go back to the Black Sox days of old with the likes of Joe Sullivan, Arnold Rothstein and other creeps infiltrating the game (Hugh Chalmers the businessman has now been implicated in some foul play way before this event)

that's another area and time of the game where something was left to fester until it became HUGE and it left an awful mark on the game. the commish at that time looked away as well for years, or quite honestly may have benefitted by it too.

[spoon]

Selig has to go the man is a hack. When the Steroid issue / Mitchell report came up he was acting like the game was dishonored and that he would be the sheriff for MLB.

After the 94 stike a lot of fans were pissed off at the game. The year of Sosa McGwire brought a lot of fans back and MLB was making hand over fist in profits and people started coming back to the ballparks in droves.


Hes worn out his welcome, time for him to be ousted or retire.

He wore out his welcome to me the moment he reinstated a criminal back into MLB and then became his bitch.

[spoon]

pretty wicked fight bt sf and philly today!

[cougarjake13]

He wore out his welcome to me the moment he reinstated a criminal back into MLB and then became his bitch.

who would that be


im drawing a blank

[WRESTLINGFAN]

who would that be


im drawing a blank

I think Steinbrenner