~ 2012 MLB Off-Season Thread ~

[brettmojo]

Did anyone watch the Jeter thing on HBO about his run for 3000? Apparently in the background during one of his interviews at his fancy shmancy NYC apartment there was a professional looking poker set up.

But I guess Arod is the only person in MLB that plays poker so it must have been a mirage.

[cougarjake13]

Did anyone watch the Jeter thing on HBO about his run for 3000? Apparently in the background during one of his interviews at his fancy shmancy NYC apartment there was a professional looking poker set up.

But I guess Arod is the only person in MLB that plays poker so it must have been a mirage.

i didnt but listening to cowherd he mentioned it

[cougarjake13]

I think Steinbrenner

sounds right

[TripleSkeet]

Shane Victorino just got fucked over. Bullshit suspension.

3 games after being beaned, and nothing for Martinez or Whiteside??? Bud Selig can suck a dick.

[Dirtbag]

Shane Victorino just got fucked over. Bullshit suspension.

3 games after being beaned, and nothing for Martinez or Whiteside??? Bud Selig can suck a dick.

Doesn't the league always hand out bullshit suspensions because they know the union is just gonna get it lowered anyway?

However many games it ends up being, I hope he serves it while Arizona is in town.

[TripleSkeet]

Doesn't the league always hand out bullshit suspensions because they know the union is just gonna get it lowered anyway?

However many games it ends up being, I hope he serves it while Arizona is in town.

My point is how do you give him 3 games, yet the pitcher, who intentionally threw almost behind his back and the catcher, who actually started the physical confrontation...get nothing???

[cougarjake13]

Shane Victorino just got fucked over. Bullshit suspension.

3 games after being beaned, and nothing for Martinez or Whiteside??? Bud Selig can suck a dick.

i hate pitcher suspensions to begin with


an everyday player gets a 5 game suspension, he misses 5 games


pitcher gets same but prob only misses one start

[joeyballsack]

My point is how do you give him 3 games, yet the pitcher, who intentionally threw almost behind his back and the catcher, who actually started the physical confrontation...get nothing???

Had any warnings been given already when the pitcher hit him ?

The catcher was just protecting his guy from Polanco who was running on the field and never threw a punch.

[sailor]

i hate pitcher suspensions to begin with


an everyday player gets a 5 game suspension, he misses 5 games


pitcher gets same but prob only misses one start

not even, he gets one start pushed back one game or so.

[Earlshog]

Shane Victorino just got fucked over. Bullshit suspension.

3 games after being beaned, and nothing for Martinez or Whiteside??? Bud Selig can suck a dick.

I agree Whiteside and Martrinez should have gotten something but I was happy Victorino only got three games

[realmenhatelife]

They might be able to get it reduced but they might as well just have Shane sit, going into LA with Mayberry playing well and you dont have to face Kershaw, you have Doc and Lee going so you might as well just get it over with, you're probably winning the series even without him.

I wonder if he hadn't slipped Greg Gross to tackle their pitching coach, or gripped up on the ump a little if Shane would've just gotten a fine, too.

[spoon]

My point is how do you give him 3 games, yet the pitcher, who intentionally threw almost behind his back and the catcher, who actually started the physical confrontation...get nothing???

Agreed on that one, especially due to the fact the Giants were clearly being bitches in this case and their pitcher intentionally threw at him. Next, their catcher looked like Clemens when he threw the bat piece at Piazza, hopping up and down like a fighter looking to swing and then picked 5' nothing Polanco coming in like everyone else and dove at his legs. I'm sorry, he should get suspended for looking like an ass and then not being able to take down a small guy! It was equal parts suspension worthy and pathetic.


Oh and realmenhatelife (RMHL), looks like Victorino was needed today at least (so far). He's scored 2 of 4 runs with the Phils up 1 in the 8th about to lose Halladay's 4-1 lead! Awful display by the pen right now.

[spoon]

Update, now he's scored 3 runs and added a much needed insurance run after Lidge got the Phils out of the 8th inning jam. Victorino added a solo shot in the 9th to up the lead to 5-3.

Victorino having a good/needed night 3/5 with 3 runs, 1 rbi (1 HR & 2 Doubles).

[realmenhatelife]

Update, now he's scored 3 runs and added a much needed insurance run after Lidge got the Phils out of the 8th inning jam. Victorino added a solo shot in the 9th to up the lead to 5-3.

Victorino having a good/needed night 3/5 with 3 runs, 1 rbi (1 HR & 2 Doubles).

Yeah I know, I guess it's good they didn't just take their medicine.

Eli Whiteside is a little bitch.

[Earlshog]

Brett Lawrie looking good so far. Spoon whats the Jays long term plan to use him at 2nd or 3rd?

[spoon]

Brett Lawrie looking good so far. Spoon whats the Jays long term plan to use him at 2nd or 3rd?

Looked fooled for the first time out there yesterday though in his home debut. He's projected to stay at third but I'm not convinced. Hill is gone unless he takes a HUGE pay cut to stay, and even then I'm not convinced Toronto wants him. He fell hard over the last few years, and that contract saved the Jays a TON of money.

There are three ways I see this playing out.

1) Lawrie moves over to second (best option to me) bc his accuracy throwing from third is average at best right now. Sure he's only been there a half year+, but you can also see issues with the ball coming at him fast as happens at third. From second he only needs to knock shit down and his athleticism helps in turning two. Still, he may make strides at third, but this situation allows for Bautista to move back to third and open up a spot in the OF where we have a ton of prospect (Snider, Thames, Gose and more).

2) The Jays either bring up Hechavaria to play SS (AMAZING glove, AAA bat thus far at best), and move Escobar over to second. This would be a VERY young IF, but amazing outside of third as Lind has really been GG caliber at first. That's not homer talk either, he's been outstanding for a long time first baseman, much less a guy playing there from the OF for the first time.

3) The Jays make a move to get clear cut 3rd or 2nd baseman allowing for Lawrie to focus now on one or the other position. The dominos then fall, meaning Bautista stays in RF where he prefers to play and the Jays get a year or two more to work with Hech.

[Snacks]

Around the horn was talking about the Blue Jays and sign stealing. Now Im not going to get into if I believe it or not, I really dont care. But the question asked to all 4 writers which is worse sign stealing or PED's and 3 said sign stealing and 1 said peds but only because it lets you play longer because of recovery.

I agree its sign stealing because peds dont help you hit the ball they hep you recover and may even give you a little more pop. But if you know what pitch is coming its a lot easier to hit. Hitting a ball is ahrd no matter what but knowing the spot the ball is going to be and knowing the type of pitch will help you a lot more then having strength.

JA Adende had a great argument. He basically said we have basically banned players from the hof for peds but there are players in the hall that have cheated worse with sign stealing, spit balls, scuffing balls etc. I have agreed with this as well. It just shows how strong the media is. If ESPN and the assholes like Bob Costas of the world didnt force steroids down our throats in this day and age maybe people wouldnt have cared as much?

Now I will let Spoon go nuts because it all started because the jays are the accused and we know how much he hates cheating.

[TripleSkeet]

Around the horn was talking about the Blue Jays and sign stealing. Now Im not going to get into if I believe it or not, I really dont care. But the question asked to all 4 writers which is worse sign stealing or PED's and 3 said sign stealing and 1 said peds but only because it lets you play longer because of recovery.

I agree its sign stealing because peds dont help you hit the ball they hep you recover and may even give you a little more pop. But if you know what pitch is coming its a lot easier to hit. Hitting a ball is ahrd no matter what but knowing the spot the ball is going to be and knowing the type of pitch will help you a lot more then having strength.

JA Adende had a great argument. He basically said we have basically banned players from the hof for peds but there are players in the hall that have cheated worse with sign stealing, spit balls, scuffing balls etc. I have agreed with this as well. It just shows how strong the media is. If ESPN and the assholes like Bob Costas of the world didnt force steroids down our throats in this day and age maybe people wouldnt have cared as much?

Now I will let Spoon go nuts because it all started because the jays are the accused and we know how much he hates cheating.

I think the Blue Jays are guilty simply because it will piss off spoon.

[Snoogans]

sign stealers sign stealers. Use all that effort to plant a man in a white suit to steal signs, and you guys still cant finish within 20 games of the division lead. PATHETIC


You shoulda just done the decent thing and taken roids like everyone else did

[cougarjake13]

sign stealers sign stealers. Use all that effort to plant a man in a white suit to steal signs, and you guys still cant finish within 20 games of the division lead. PATHETIC


You shoulda just done the decent thing and taken roids like everyone else did

batista did his part, the rest didnt

[HBox]

Here's the article about the Blue Jays alleged sign stealing. (http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/6837424/baseball-toronto-blue-jays-suspicion-again-stealing-signs-rogers-centre)

[spoon]

Around the horn was talking about the Blue Jays and sign stealing. Now Im not going to get into if I believe it or not, I really dont care. But the question asked to all 4 writers which is worse sign stealing or PED's and 3 said sign stealing and 1 said peds but only because it lets you play longer because of recovery.

I agree its sign stealing because peds dont help you hit the ball they hep you recover and may even give you a little more pop. But if you know what pitch is coming its a lot easier to hit. Hitting a ball is ahrd no matter what but knowing the spot the ball is going to be and knowing the type of pitch will help you a lot more then having strength.

JA Adende had a great argument. He basically said we have basically banned players from the hof for peds but there are players in the hall that have cheated worse with sign stealing, spit balls, scuffing balls etc. I have agreed with this as well. It just shows how strong the media is. If ESPN and the assholes like Bob Costas of the world didnt force steroids down our throats in this day and age maybe people wouldnt have cared as much?

Now I will let Spoon go nuts because it all started because the jays are the accused and we know how much he hates cheating.

First off your breakdown on the benefits of PEDs is completely false and misguided at best.

Second, this is complete bullshit. This is a story now bc some pussy manager had a game where his INF made multiple errors and his pitcher walked batters all over and was awful. So waaaa they cheated, right...sure thing you bitch.

I guess the mere fact they have zero proof, and there is VIDEO of every game you can analyze. Hell, they went back to the start of 2010 when the MAN IN WHITE would tip pitches! Ha! I guess 500ft away is the perfect distance to see bt a guy's legs at home and then stand and wave for half the pitches in every game is feasible, much less the batters, coaches and organization be in on it.

Hell, Cito and a LOT of his staff have moved on to other teams, as well as many players including hitters. I guess they all are in on this conspiracy to help the Jays finish 4th every year in a division where teams shell out over a hundred million dollars per year more for players. Yah, Toronto is stealing sings with White Man, fighter of the Night Man. Champion of the Sun. You’re a master of karate and friendship…for everyone

Ooh ahhh ahh!

Comical at best and ESPN and that cunt are pathetic for how AWFUL this story lacks any credibility in ANY way. Get names of those pitchers now in triple A playing with themselves from Chicago. How about ONE player or coach past or present to collaborate? How about one, ONE formal complaint or investigation into it BEFORE the story and prove it first. Oh I know why, bc it's bullshit and they probably DID try to find it and failed so they just ran with it bc it sells. ESPN is just awful.

[spoon]

sign stealers sign stealers. Use all that effort to plant a man in a white suit to steal signs, and you guys still cant finish within 20 games of the division lead. PATHETIC


You shoulda just done the decent thing and taken roids like everyone else did

Yes the team playing monsters every year and finishing above .500 every time but once since 05 is awful. In any other division in MLB and they make the playoffs often.

If you believe these "sources" from April of 2010 I find that hilarious. I would LOVE the league to go back and review that game with NY where that pussy needed his pacifier bc the mighty yankees can't lose to a team paid over a 100 million less!

The only part of this that's pathetic is that one pussy can cry in NY and all of a sudden people pile on with ZERO to back it up. I'll say it again, go to the video and watch it all.

I love the response in Toronto tonight, with Lawrie's grand slam and fans all over wearing all white and many with signs ripping Chicago and NY's manager's. Two of the BIGGEST pussies whiny bitches in the fucking game right now. Oh and even if, a HUGE IF, they were having their signs stolen from anywhere, your system is "PATHETIC".

If only they could throw at Girardi in the dugout. Ah, they'd probably just be ready for it by stealing the sign anyway. You know, those that cheat on their spouses are usually the jealous types. I suspect and want to put out there that I now suspect the Yanks of stealing signs bc of this relationship. By ESPN reporting standards, this will be on next week's cover right next to a picture of what Tiger ate yesterday.

[Kevin]

http://www.sanfranciscosentinel.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/white-clothes-8.jpg

[spoon]

In 2010, the Jays swung at 48.9 percent of pitches, the highest rate in baseball. They hit just .269 on balls in play, the lowest in baseball by 12 points. However, they led the majors with 257 home runs, 46 more than the next-highest squad. In fact, the 2010 Jays had the highest isolated power (slugging percentage minus batting average) of any team since 1954. That's what enabled Toronto to score 755 runs (ninth best in MLB) despite an abysmal team on-base percentage of .312 (fifth worst).

A huge proportion of the Jays' power comes from their home ballpark. In 2010, Toronto blasted a whopping 146 homers at Rogers Centre, just seven homers shy of the all-time home record set by the Rangers in 2005.

WOW, that's proof!? Hilarious. ANYONE, anyone who watched last year know why this was. Cito and their hitting coach pushed them to mash away and pick their spots. I guess they also failed to look up the MONSTROUS strike out rates for most on the team and how little they ever produced runs with small ball. If anyone paid attention to my comments on the season, I HATED the approach and it lost them more games then it won them even if they finished above .500.

I just did some research BEYOND trying to fit the story for ESPN. The yankees last 29 more home runs at HOME versus the road last year, the difference for a more prolific home run hitting that year (on the road too!) team was 35. Add in the fact that Toronto's park has usually played out as leaning hitter friendly and you have your answer.

Great work ESPN. For fuck's sake, just crap out your mouth and be on certain teams, be named Tiger/Lebron and ESPN will turn it into a story for the front page of a magazine.

[Dirtbag]

their hitting coach pushed them to mash away and pick their spots. I guess they also failed to look up the MONSTROUS strike out rates for most on the team and how little they ever produced runs with small ball. If anyone paid attention to my comments on the season, I HATED the approach and it lost them more games then it won them even if they finished above .500.

I was under the impression that was just good ol' American League baseball.

[brettmojo]

Here's the article about the Blue Jays alleged sign stealing. (http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/6837424/baseball-toronto-blue-jays-suspicion-again-stealing-signs-rogers-centre)
I knew when they brought up Toronto stealing signs earlier this year that I had heard the same thing last season.

Where there's smoke there's fire... Right?

[Snoogans]

<iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/gklM1AiZX0s" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Snoogans]

<iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/96jFtzVa80A" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[brettmojo]

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Yto1zFZrzQo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Snoogans]

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Yto1zFZrzQo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

so, does Jose Batista win the Mac Book now?

[brettmojo]

so, does Jose Batista win the Mac Book now?
Nope. Not til' he figures out the multiple signs.

[Snoogans]

http://media.thestar.topscms.com/images/dd/16/a4145ceb4c1bae9a5286b326e13c.jpeg

[brettmojo]

http://stealofhome.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/maninwhite11.jpg

[TripleSkeet]

http://stealofhome.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/maninwhite11.jpg

There ya go! Definitive proof! (Waiting for spoons head to explode)

[brettmojo]

There ya go! Definitive proof! (Waiting for spoons head to explode)
They're not even trying to be sneaky about it.

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/682532/370136728_medium.jpg

[spoon]

There ya go! Definitive proof! (Waiting for spoons head to explode)

Why would it? It's beyond fucking stupid. I can't believe people would stand when a ball is HIT TO THE OF as happened/was happening in that play. Hence the OF running in that direction, the cameras focusing on that areas (see left side of pic in stands) and others standing not in white. Oh and nice that a camera zoomed and it's STILL not easy to see if they are standing or sitting, hence the circles! Wow, this proof just keeps coming.

Funny thing is TS, it was a bullpen coach on the Phils who was ACTUALLY caught last year stealing signs with binocs, not a Jay fan, ever. Funny thing too is, Selig basically said bad boy and left the conversation so I expect now he'll act like it's a big deal. Bottom line, some dumb bitch needed a story to keep her job so she proofed zero and decided to print garbage. What a shocker considering the sources, magazine and of course the author.

[TripleSkeet]

Why would it? It's beyond fucking stupid. I can't believe people would stand when a ball is HIT TO THE OF as happened/was happening in that play. Hence the OF running in that direction, the cameras focusing on that areas (see left side of pic in stands) and others standing not in white. Oh and nice that a camera zoomed and it's STILL not easy to see if they are standing or sitting, hence the circles! Wow, this proof just keeps coming.

Funny thing is TS, it was a bullpen coach on the Phils who was ACTUALLY caught last year stealing signs with binocs, not a Jay fan, ever. Funny thing too is, Selig basically said bad boy and left the conversation so I expect now he'll act like it's a big deal. Bottom line, some dumb bitch needed a story to keep her job so she proofed zero and decided to print garbage. What a shocker considering the sources, magazine and of course the author.

Dude, I dont give a fuck if the Jays are stealing signs. Fuck it. In my opinion if you aint cheating you aint trying.

[Dirtbag]

http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/6857967/carlos-zambrano-ejected-tells-chicago-cubs-retiring

What a weirdo.

[spoon]

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6003/6012978230_280264f54f_z.jpg

HA!

[Jayw]

Cardinals WS fav's

[spoon]

Cardinals WS fav's

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_XpyvR5cmBZs/TCFen9b9EyI/AAAAAAAAAM0/wdWv0XjdYnY/s1600/Picture+1.png

Yah, not happening.

[spoon]

http://bookdweeb.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/swordbird1.jpg?w=210&h=300

[cougarjake13]

http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/6857967/carlos-zambrano-ejected-tells-chicago-cubs-retiring

What a weirdo.




that guy has never been what he was sposed to be cept for a few seasons

def didnt deserve that last contract

[spoon]

that guy has never been what he was sposed to be cept for a few seasons

def didnt deserve that last contract

I hope he takes off his belt and and pay you a visit!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Pujols has been killing the ball ever since hes gotten off the DL. Dont let the .275 BA surprise you. He's on pace to hit 40+HR I think he will finish over .300

[Snoogans]

Pujols has been killing the ball ever since hes gotten off the DL. Dont let the .275 BA surprise you. He's on pace to hit 40+HR I think he will finish over .300

thats cause you cant be drug tested while ont he DL

[cougarjake13]

can he go thru a cycle and be clean now if hes tested ?


unless its hgh

[Snoogans]

can he go thru a cycle and be clean now if hes tested ?


unless its hgh

how long was he on the DL? You can run through a cycle in about 2 weeks and it would take about 10-14 days after that.

Also, MLB testing rules allow each guy to be tested only once during the season. So if he had one in may, then he is golden for the rest of the reg season.

but yea, if you are out like a month, you have enough time to cycle and clear it out. esp with the better more expensive shit

[WRESTLINGFAN]

From a Yankees fan

I know Minn is a small mkt team but come on. Jeter gets 3K its national news. Jim Thome got 600 and hardly a peep except on ESPN/MLB network. 28 other men got 3k but only 8 others have 600 or more and some of them used PED's

[Earlshog]

From a Yankees fan

I know Minn is a small mkt team but come on. Jeter gets 3K its national news. Jim Thome got 600 and hardly a peep except on ESPN/MLB network. 28 other men got 3k but only 8 others have 600 or more and some of them used PED's

Apples and Oranges (if I may) your sister or your mom know who Derek Jeter is, they don't know who Jim Thome is.

Unfortunately for Thome he played in the wrong era. He is a definite first ballot hall of famer which is more then can be said for the steroid guys you mentioned.

[TripleSkeet]

Apples and Oranges (if I may) your sister or your mom know who Derek Jeter is, they don't know who Jim Thome is.

Unfortunately for Thome he played in the wrong era. He is a definite first ballot hall of famer which is more then can be said for the steroid guys you mentioned.

It still deserved more attention then he got. Now Im arguing with idiots like Skip Bayless on Twitter because hes saying he doesnt belong in the HOF. Fucking moron.

[sailor]

He's borderline, but in. The 600 legitimately helped.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

He does not have the name recognition. Someone who wasnt a baseball fan knew who Cal Ripken is even though he was on a small mkt team ,the chase for 2131 was reported outside of baseball.

I go by the stats by baseball-reference.com hes in the HoF

Black Ink Batting - 13 (180), Average HOFer ≈ 27

Gray Ink Batting - 118 (171), Average HOFer ≈ 144

Hall of Fame Monitor Batting - 156 (78), Likely HOFer ≈ 100

Hall of Fame Standards Batting - 57 (46), Average HOFer ≈ 50

[Dirtbag]

Isn't Thome being lumped in with the steroid crew, which isn't helping his case any.

[Earlshog]

He does not have the name recognition. Someone who wasnt a baseball fan knew who Cal Ripken is even though he was on a small mkt team ,the chase for 2131 was reported outside of baseball.

I go by the stats by baseball-reference.com hes in the HoF

Black Ink Batting - 13 (180), Average HOFer ≈ 27

Gray Ink Batting - 118 (171), Average HOFer ≈ 144

Hall of Fame Monitor Batting - 156 (78), Likely HOFer ≈ 100

Hall of Fame Standards Batting - 57 (46), Average HOFer ≈ 50



:ohmy:

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Isn't Thome being lumped in with the steroid crew, which isn't helping his case any.

Ive never heard of Thome being linked to Bonds McGwire et al.

[TripleSkeet]

Hes never been accused or linked to any kind of steroid scandal.

WF I have no idea how to read that chart you put up. Im not sure what thaose numbers mean. But I have 1 very simple equation.

600 HRs = HOF

It shouldnt even be a discussion. 8 Men have done it, some of which have tested positive for steroids at some point. He never has. Lock it up.

Shit 500 HRs should be enough to get in the HOF, 600 there shouldnt even be a debate.

[Dirtbag]

I didn't mean anything in particular, just the stigma that everyone who played in the 90s, particularly the big HR hitters, must have been on roids.

[razorboy]

Desmond Jennings with a badass catch. (http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=18072007&topic_id=&c_id=mlb&tcid=vpp_copy_18072007&v=3)

[TripleSkeet]

I didn't mean anything in particular, just the stigma that everyone who played in the 90s, particularly the big HR hitters, must have been on roids.

Nah I know but hes got a pretty good rep around the league for being clean.

[spoon]

From a Yankees fan

I know Minn is a small mkt team but come on. Jeter gets 3K its national news. Jim Thome got 600 and hardly a peep except on ESPN/MLB network. 28 other men got 3k but only 8 others have 600 or more and some of them used PED's

Ha! I think I just wrote the same shit in another thread. It's so fucking true too.

[spoon]

Nah I know but hes got a pretty good rep around the league for being clean.

Yah we'd likely be talking a LOT more about the clean guys like Thome and Griffey if the others didn't become anabolic monsters. If roids did what they did for Bond's power numbers, imagine what it would have done for natural power guys like Griffey, Thome and McGriff.

[A.J.]

Desmond Jennings with a badass catch. (http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=18072007&topic_id=&c_id=mlb&tcid=vpp_copy_18072007&v=3)

That was a helluva catch. Guys can play that wall for years and never read/time a play like that.

But the triple play after that by the Sox was even better!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Was watching MLB network before. Stroudsburg is pitching another rehab start in the minors. They are saying that he could be called up in early september.


On another note I want to bang the hell outta Hazel Mae

[cougarjake13]

Was watching MLB network before. Stroudsburg is pitching another rehab start in the minors. They are saying that he could be called up in early september.


On another note I want to bang the hell outta Hazel Mae




dont know him and he didnt come up in a google search



strasburg though, thats another story

[WRESTLINGFAN]

On some pitchers mounds in MLB there is another item on the mound besides the rosin bag. Does anyone know what it is and used for? Its in the shape of a square. Its usually to the right of the teams logo thats carved into the dirt.

[razorboy]

On some pitchers mounds in MLB there is another item on the mound besides the rosin bag. Does anyone know what it is and used for? Its in the shape of a square. Its usually to the right of the teams logo thats carved into the dirt.

Do you mean the cleat cleaner?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3067/2701741097_73b419ef66.jpg

It's for, well, getting the clay out of your cleats.

[Snoogans]

wow, i never thought id see the day where someone needed to explain what the thing the guy always RUBS HIS SPIKES ON is for. It was pretty common sense. Shit, alot of regular places and golf courses have a similar kinda thing to clean your shoes before you go inside

[Kevin]

I Just do not understand why Girardi keeps playing this utter bum Nunez. He is the worst fielder I've seen since. Jose Offerman

[Snoogans]

I Just do not understand why Girardi keeps playing this utter bum Nunez. He is the worst fielder I've seen since. Jose Offerman

not like that GG yankee utility guy who is on the DL, ramiro pena

[Kevin]

not like that GG yankee utility guy who is on the DL, ramiro pena

How could I forget the heir apparent to Ozzie Smith

[Snoogans]

How could I forget the heir apparent to Ozzie Smith

wouldnt ozzies heir apparent not have waited like 20 years to take over? Im pretty sure omar visquel now wants a word with you

[Kevin]

wouldnt ozzies heir apparent not have waited like 20 years to take over? Im pretty sure omar visquel now wants a word with you

Or Derek Jeter with his 5GGs and counting

[Marc with a c]

i miss rey ordonez.

[Kevin]

i miss rey ordonez.



He was the best.

[Snoogans]

i miss rey ordonez.

oh man i havent heard that fuckin name for a long time. He was impressive cause he found away to be just worst than ozzie at everything

[Marc with a c]

oh man i havent heard that fuckin name for a long time. He was impressive cause he found away to be just worst than ozzie at everything

not at getting knocked out by his back up.

[Snacks]

Or Derek Jeter with his 5GGs and counting

they should start taking them away since he didnt deserve at least 2 of them!

[Marc with a c]

they should start taking them away since he didnt deserve at least 2 of them!

um how about five. throw bernie williams' in there as well.

[Snoogans]

um how about five. throw bernie williams' in there as well.

can we take away david wrights too?

and since we are correcting mistakes, can we also take joe namath out of the HOF?


thanks

[Kevin]

Jeter should have -5 GGs

[Marc with a c]

can we take away david wrights too?

nope. ryan Zimmerman is a cheat, and his name sounds kinda jewy.

[Kevin]

nope. ryan Zimmerman is a cheat, and his name sounds kinda jewy.

Who are you, Ryan Church?

[Earlshog]

It was time for Jim Hendry to go

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/15148/it-was-time-for-jim-hendry-to-go

[spoon]

can we take away david wrights too?

and since we are correcting mistakes, can we also take joe namath out of the HOF?


thanks

The worst GG in history still has to be Raffy Palmeiro.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The worst GG in history still has to be Raffy Palmeiro.

I think that was the year he played only a handful of games at 1B Fucking Tino Martinez out of it.

[cougarjake13]

The worst GG in history still has to be Raffy Palmeiro.

I think that was the year he played only a handful of games at 1B Fucking Tino Martinez out of it.

played like 151 games but only 17 at first i think

[Kevin]

If you are making 23 mil a year then Brett Gardner should not have better power numbers then you do...


Not very well played Mauer...

[disneyspy]

WHAT A THROW BY AUSTIN JACKSON!! centerfield and throws out the indian tryin to tag up and OUT AT THE PLATE! GAME OVER,TIGERS SWEEP INDIANS! WOOOOOOOOO

[spoon]

If you are making 23 mil a year then Brett Gardner should not have better power numbers then you do...


Not very well played Mauer...

Sooo, I guess we just ignore his injury issues this year, the HUGE difference in the positions and what each mean to their teams, Mauer's back to back to back Silver Sluggers & Gold Gloves and of course the MVP. Yah, I guess it's just the Twins throwing money around again AS USUAL and will likely just bury this mistake...oh wait. Not very well played Kevin is more like it, unless you expect even the best to have great years with injuries and only 67 games played by almost September.

13 hrs for 31 million, now that's funny! Oh wait, 80 games right?

Or 13 million for Posada! Yes that's a good contract.

[spoon]

AJB for 16.5 for three more years too anyone!? Bury it!

[spoon]

I guess the best way to rip your post is to do it this way.



If you are making 14 mil a year then Casey Janssen should not have better pitching numbers then you do...


No muy bien jugado Soriano...



That covers the injury breeze by and all!

[epo]

AJB for 16.5 for three more years too anyone!? Bury it!

He's no Marcum.

[spoon]

He's no Marcum.

That trade is looking like one of those rare win win moves. Lawrie is raking overall so far and his mere presence on the team has got fans coming out much more from all parts of Canada. The Jays had more fans in Seattle it seemed during their past stop there last week, mainly bc Lawrie is from BC.

Alex Anthopulos is making some real good moves by setting up some farm teams in other parts of Canada and getting the country behind them in ways I haven't seen in decades. It's still in the making, but the Jays are heading in the right direction for the first time in years. The only problem is, it might go unnoticed being that they play in the AL East.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The Yankees have a dilemma for the postseason. If Burnett keeps pitching like shit where do they put him in the rotation. Devils advocate can say that hes being paid 16.5MM and why put him in the bullpen, however Nova has been pitching great. Colon and Garcia have pitched fairly decent and If Hughes continues to have decent outings, Where does Burnett fit in?

[Kevin]

AJ sucks balls and the Yankees are not "burying" it as you said.

They keep pitching him even though he is being a dickbag by not trying and then gets Pissy when they take him out.

But yet he is still in the rotation.

Btw have you bashed the Redsox once this year? Or are the Yankees still the only team that spend money?

[Kevin]

Sooo, I guess we just ignore his injury issues this year, the HUGE difference in the positions and what each mean to their teams, Mauer's back to back to back Silver Sluggers & Gold Gloves and of course the MVP. Yah, I guess it's just the Twins throwing money around again AS USUAL and will likely just bury this mistake...oh wait. Not very well played Kevin is more like it, unless you expect even the best to have great years with injuries and only 67 games played by almost September.

13 hrs for 31 million, now that's funny! Oh wait, 80 games right?

Or 13 million for Posada! Yes that's a good contract.


Why does everything have to be Yankees with you?

Anyway you slice it Mauer has had a pathetic two years since he signed the contract 9hrs last year ONE this year. Don't give me injuries or ballpark. If you play no excuses and as for ballpark. Russel Martin had more HRs in one game than Mauer has had in 2yrs in minni and the Yankee hits HRS all over that place this weekend.

And its not just me saying it. The normally patiant and supportive Minnesota writers and fans are starting to get worried about him. And bash him.

As for Arod he has had an off year, but he is giving the Yanks 20times more bang for the buck then Mauer.

That being said, his contract will be an albatross in a year or two.

[Kevin]

That trade is looking like one of those rare win win moves. Lawrie is raking overall so far and his mere presence on the team has got fans coming out much more from all parts of Canada. The Jays had more fans in Seattle it seemed during their past stop there last week, mainly bc Lawrie is from BC.

Alex Anthopulos is making some real good moves by setting up some farm teams in other parts of Canada and getting the country behind them in ways I haven't seen in decades. It's still in the making, but the Jays are heading in the right direction for the first time in years. The only problem is, it might go unnoticed being that they play in the AL East.

AA so far has been a great GM.

Hell he deserves a raise just for getting Anaheim to take all of Vernon Wells money.

[Snacks]

Why does everything have to be Yankees with you?

Anyway you slice it Mauer has had a pathetic two years since he signed the contract 9hrs last year ONE this year. Don't give me injuries or ballpark. If you play no excuses and as for ballpark. Russel Martin had more HRs in one game than Mauer has had in 2yrs in minni and the Yankee hits HRS all over that place this weekend.

And its not just me saying it. The normally patiant and supportive Minnesota writers and fans are starting to get worried about him. And bash him.

As for Arod he has had an off year, but he is giving the Yanks 20times more bang for the buck then Mauer.

That being said, his contract will be an albatross in a year or two.

With the way things are going how could anyone not think Minny overpaid to keep Mauer? They overpaid to keep a catcher who is local and is a very high batting avg guy who seems to get injured every year (misses on avg 30 games a year 1/5 of the season) and doesnt do anything else but hit for high avg. They paid him like he hits 30+ hrs a year, 100 rbis and 100 runs yet he has never gotten any of those #s not even 1 time. Yes he does have 3 batting titles and yes he is a good catcher but thats not worth what they paid him. Sorry but I think that was a terrible signing that will hurt them for years.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Havent followed the DL List of the Twins too much, that being said. I noticed Mauer is playing 1B a lot. In one of the games vs NY he was playing RF. Is he going to become a full time catcher again?

[Snacks]

Havent followed the DL List of the Twins too much, that being said. I noticed Mauer is playing 1B a lot. In one of the games vs NY he was playing RF. Is he going to become a full time catcher again?

he wants to be a catcher only. i knew he finally played 1b 1 or 2 games but didnt know that he was still doing so.

[razorboy]

he wants to be a catcher only. i knew he finally played 1b 1 or 2 games but didnt know that he was still doing so.

He played a game in Right as well. He may want to be a catcher, but he already has injury issues and when a team with the budget constraints the Twins have hand out that kind of cash you have to assume it's only a matter of time. He is helped by the fact that Butera sucks and there isn't really anything to speak of at catcher in the farm system.

[cougarjake13]

He played a game in Right as well. He may want to be a catcher, but he already has injury issues and when a team with the budget constraints the Twins have hand out that kind of cash you have to assume it's only a matter of time. He is helped by the fact that Butera sucks and there isn't really anything to speak of at catcher in the farm system.

plus who the hell knows when morneau will come back and if he'll ever be himself again

[spoon]

AJ sucks balls and the Yankees are not "burying" it as you said.

They keep pitching him even though he is being a dickbag by not trying and then gets Pissy when they take him out.

But yet he is still in the rotation.

Btw have you bashed the Redsox once this year? Or are the Yankees still the only team that spend money?

Yes sure, but their fans don't make statements like you did above so it's usually much less often. Also, it does come down to keeping up with one team, not the Sox leading the charge all these years. They simply can spend decently CLOSE to the yankee's level, but can't bury things like Igawa and soon AJB. However, that being said, the sox still pay their team almost 50 million LESS THAN the yankees and operate right up against where I'd like to see the cap be established. While I don't like their spending at times, it's surely not the same as the yanks this year and especially over time.

[spoon]

Why does everything have to be Yankees with you?

Anyway you slice it Mauer has had a pathetic two years since he signed the contract 9hrs last year ONE this year. Don't give me injuries or ballpark. If you play no excuses and as for ballpark. Russel Martin had more HRs in one game than Mauer has had in 2yrs in minni and the Yankee hits HRS all over that place this weekend.

And its not just me saying it. The normally patiant and supportive Minnesota writers and fans are starting to get worried about him. And bash him.

As for Arod he has had an off year, but he is giving the Yanks 20times more bang for the buck then Mauer.

That being said, his contract will be an albatross in a year or two.

WTF Kev?! BECAUSE you tied in the yankees and their player for fuck's sake. How does that not compute? You literally did it AGAIN in your take on Mauer above by comparing him to the now great Martin (I guess he's an all-star right :wall bash:) !! And YES, injuries are something you add into the conversation, and it's why the "normally patient and supportive Minni writers" ARE worried dummy.

Classic myopic analysis by the way on his last two years! Pretty funny stuff with the HR focus. Ask the Mets is a stadium can have an effect on your power numbers, but way to just ignore Mauer being the Silver Slugger for his position last year. He hit .327, on base % of .402, 75 rbis, 43 doubles, 88 runs putting up ACTUAL all-star type numbers unlike Martin on a STACKED offensive team.

Overall the Twins have had an off year with many HUGE guys going down with major injuries. It wasn't just Mauer, but Morneau (top two players on a thin roster overall) among many others. Their lineup has been quite a mess this year.

[spoon]

With the way things are going how could anyone not think Minny overpaid to keep Mauer? They overpaid to keep a catcher who is local and is a very high batting avg guy who seems to get injured every year (misses on avg 30 games a year 1/5 of the season) and doesnt do anything else but hit for high avg. They paid him like he hits 30+ hrs a year, 100 rbis and 100 runs yet he has never gotten any of those #s not even 1 time. Yes he does have 3 batting titles and yes he is a good catcher but thats not worth what they paid him. Sorry but I think that was a terrible signing that will hurt them for years.

He misses ~20 games a year usually bc he's a CATCHER and playing him daily isn't a good idea. This year is different obviously, but show me a catcher today that plays 150 games at the position each year. He has extra value bc of his defense, the way he calls a game and give great offense from a position not usually strong for it, especially when it comes with those factors. Is anyone "worth" the money they get in MLB these days to be honest, hell no. But if the Twins did let him walk like so many other big names up there, you might as well actually let Selig just go back to his idea of contraction. The fans would have had been pissed to add a hometown guy and MVP to their list of those let go/moved for financial reasons (eg. Hunter, Santana).

[Snacks]

He misses ~20 games a year usually bc he's a CATCHER and playing him daily isn't a good idea. This year is different obviously, but show me a catcher today that plays 150 games at the position each year. He has extra value bc of his defense, the way he calls a game and give great offense from a position not usually strong for it, especially when it comes with those factors. Is anyone "worth" the money they get in MLB these days to be honest, hell no. But if the Twins did let him walk like so many other big names up there, you might as well actually let Selig just go back to his idea of contraction. The fans would have had been pissed to add a hometown guy and MVP to their list of those let go/moved for financial reasons (eg. Hunter, Santana).

you really think paying him $23 million per year was worth it? Hes a catcher who is overpaid. We had this discussion a few weeks ago. I told you that the yanks could overspend like this because if it doesnt work out they have 6 or 7 other guys that can pick up the slack. A team like minny cant make a mistake this big because they wont have guys to pick up the slack and this will hurt them for years. plus even if he was healthy a catcher that calls a good game and hits for avg but doesnt do much else isnt worth it. Even at $12-$15 million a year he would have been overpaid.

As for your argument about the stadium or whatever. I dont know but I do know before the new stadium he only had 1 good hr year and that was the season before his contract was signed. He his 28 and before that he avg like 8 or 9 per year at best. Hes never been a power hitter so if anything i doubt the stadium has anything to do with anything. If mauer wasnt so popular some might think he did steroids that 1 season to get his contract.

Games missed
2005 31
2006 22
2007 52
2008 16
2009 24
2010 25
2011 Already missed 60

catchers miss games but when you pay the guy $23 million and hes top 5 paid in all of baseball he cant miss on avg 30+ games a year.

[Kevin]

Yes sure, but their fans don't make statements like you did above so it's usually much less often. Also, it does come down to keeping up with one team, not the Sox leading the charge all these years. They simply can spend decently CLOSE to the yankee's level, but can't bury things like Igawa and soon AJB. However, that being said, the sox still pay their team almost 50 million LESS THAN the yankees and operate right up against where I'd like to see the cap be established. While I don't like their spending at times, it's surely not the same as the yanks this year and especially over time.


Come on seriously?

The redsox payroll is 170mil not 100.

They are every goddamn bit the capable spenders the Yankees are.

It will reach 200 very soon with Elsbury Lester Bucholz getting big deals.

Saying they aren't on the same level as the Yankees makes you retarded which you are not, its its just utter blind Yankee hatred.

[Kevin]

How do those gutty gritty Redsox compete with the big bad Yankees.

I mean their payroll is like 75 million.

Their fan base does not stretch FIVE STATES.

They don't own soccer teams race car companie, they don't charge like 100 bucks for clubs.

Goddamn what an insperation those guys are.

Competing with the big bad Yankees with such meager means

I almost have a tear in my eyes I'm so inspired.

[Snoogans]

Come on seriously?

The redsox payroll is 170mil not 100.

They are every goddamn bit the capable spenders the Yankees are.

It will reach 200 very soon with Elsbury Lester Bucholz getting big deals.

Saying they aren't on the same level as the Yankees makes you retarded which you are not, its its just utter blind Yankee hatred.

thats not true cause JD Drew and Papi and scuturo come off.

they do have as much money to spend, esp wiht all that Liverpool cash comin in now

[spoon]

Come on seriously?

The redsox payroll is 170mil not 100.

They are every goddamn bit the capable spenders the Yankees are.

It will reach 200 very soon with Elsbury Lester Bucholz getting big deals.

Saying they aren't on the same level as the Yankees makes you retarded which you are not, its its just utter blind Yankee hatred.

No Kevin it's NOT the same. You just added a hypothetical scenario with Elsbury and others as if others might not come off when this happens and the Yankees don't get higher as well. All three by the way are their players so I have less issue with their contracts. Retarded is trying to say the Yanks and Sox are on the same level of spending or even have been based on a made up situation that only looks at one side of the coin.

The Sox have usually remained around 45-65 million behind the yanks in spending. This year is in fact the closest margin I believe at ~ 42 million, but still very significant and not to be ignored. Especially when you look at how many huge contracts the yanks have in the minors as well (Igawa and all the bonus money the can give to prospects that fall to them in the draft with signing issues/cost concerns and international free agent prizes at 16 years old).

Yet yes, of late the Sox have gone out and spent on free agents if that's what you asking. Yet again, it's to keep pace (consistently behind as I stated earlier), the only team right now that even comes close in the AL East, bc we all know the Rays got pillaged last year and over time.

[spoon]

you really think paying him $23 million per year was worth it? Hes a catcher who is overpaid. We had this discussion a few weeks ago. I told you that the yanks could overspend like this because if it doesnt work out they have 6 or 7 other guys that can pick up the slack. A team like minny cant make a mistake this big because they wont have guys to pick up the slack and this will hurt them for years. plus even if he was healthy a catcher that calls a good game and hits for avg but doesnt do much else isnt worth it. Even at $12-$15 million a year he would have been overpaid.

As for your argument about the stadium or whatever. I dont know but I do know before the new stadium he only had 1 good hr year and that was the season before his contract was signed. He his 28 and before that he avg like 8 or 9 per year at best. Hes never been a power hitter so if anything i doubt the stadium has anything to do with anything. If mauer wasnt so popular some might think he did steroids that 1 season to get his contract.

Games missed
2005 31
2006 22
2007 52
2008 16
2009 24
2010 25
2011 Already missed 60

catchers miss games but when you pay the guy $23 million and hes top 5 paid in all of baseball he cant miss on avg 30+ games a year.

Is the he worth it, of course not as I said earlier most in the MLB aren't, even those with power numbers. However, I do understand that this was the guy they chose to pay vs all the others they let walk in the past. And yes, he's not a power based guy, never really was bc he's clearly a gap/avg hitter from a normally offensive void position. His Positional War is phenomenal (1st twice and 2nd once in the last 5 years). When healthy the guy simply hits and is a defensive stud behind the plate. It's a key position in terms of pitching as well, so yah I see WHY they did what they did.

And let's not act like they need to bury him or have to. He's still batting .288 with all the injuries and in a SHIT lineup of late. He'll be moved if needed and I'm sure his D will translate well to 1st if Morneau can't return to form.

[spoon]

How do those gutty gritty Redsox compete with the big bad Yankees.

I mean their payroll is like 75 million.

Their fan base does not stretch FIVE STATES.

They don't own soccer teams race car companie, they don't charge like 100 bucks for clubs.

Goddamn what an insperation those guys are.

Competing with the big bad Yankees with such meager means

I almost have a tear in my eyes I'm so inspired.

I guess someone said this too right!?

I don't even say this for Toronto or hell, TB! Still need a cap though.

[brettmojo]

The Yankees have a dilemma for the postseason. If Burnett keeps pitching like shit where do they put him in the rotation. Devils advocate can say that hes being paid 16.5MM and why put him in the bullpen, however Nova has been pitching great. Colon and Garcia have pitched fairly decent and If Hughes continues to have decent outings, Where does Burnett fit in?
Burnett won't be on the roster for the playoffs. He's really a non-factor. Hughes looks like he's righted himself, Nova, Colon and CC... Other than the waste of money it really isn't a big deal. The Yanks have been rolling without him. They have the bigger problem of figuring out how the hell to beat the freaking Red Sox.

[Kevin]

Look if you want to say the Yankees with their spending capabilities have an unfair advantage, you have every right.

But you just can't with a sound mind say that the Redsox do not have the exact same advantage. They have a lucrative TV station they have a soccer team, a Huge multi state fan base..

If the Yankees are bad for baseball, then the Redsox are every bit the problem the Yankees are.

[Snacks]

Is the he worth it, of course not as I said earlier most in the MLB aren't, even those with power numbers. However, I do understand that this was the guy they chose to pay vs all the others they let walk in the past. And yes, he's not a power based guy, never really was bc he's clearly a gap/avg hitter from a normally offensive void position. His Positional War is phenomenal (1st twice and 2nd once in the last 5 years). When healthy the guy simply hits and is a defensive stud behind the plate. It's a key position in terms of pitching as well, so yah I see WHY they did what they did.

And let's not act like they need to bury him or have to. He's still batting .288 with all the injuries and in a SHIT lineup of late. He'll be moved if needed and I'm sure his D will translate well to 1st if Morneau can't return to form.

but at $23 million a year they could have signed a defensive catcher and 2 more talented players. They could get a def ca at around $3-5 million, a power hitter for about $10 million and a #2 type pitcher for 7-$10 million a year. Mauer is not worth it. he is a great catcher who hit above avg but you have to include the salary and how that effects your team. If this continues which it might because hes only getting older. He will be a $200 million bust because he will hurt the team when they try to sign others. They wont be able to move him and he eventually will lose even more value when he cant or they dont let him catch anymore. You cant pay a guy that kind of money and now get offensive production, I dont give 2 shits how great he is behind the plate or how great he handles pitchers. If he doesnt drive in runs, score, hit some power or play more often you cant justify that salary. I cant wait for Pujols contract this off season. He might get a deal right around the same money. Something like $200 million for 7 years.

[Kevin]

but at $23 million a year they could have signed a defensive catcher and 2 more talented players. They could get a def ca at around $3-5 million, a power hitter for about $10 million and a #2 type pitcher for 7-$10 million a year. Mauer is not worth it. he is a great catcher who hit above avg but you have to include the salary and how that effects your team. If this continues which it might because hes only getting older. He will be a $200 million bust because he will hurt the team when they try to sign others. They wont be able to move him and he eventually will lose even more value when he cant or they dont let him catch anymore. You cant pay a guy that kind of money and now get offensive production, I dont give 2 shits how great he is behind the plate or how great he handles pitchers. If he doesnt drive in runs, score, hit some power or play more often you cant justify that salary. I cant wait for Pujols contract this off season. He might get a deal right around the same money. Something like $200 million for 7 years.

Minnesota had to get him locked up. He was a hometown kid and at the time top 5 player.

New park.

If he reached FA the Yankees and some other team I forget their names would have gotten in a huge bidding War for him. He may have gotten. 220-250MIL.

Is it too much now? Yes but at the time it was a good deal.

I just do not see Pujols getting more than 4 5 years.

Not with the injury and down year.

[Kevin]

And where are you getting a #2 pitcher for. 7-10 mil?

1997?

[Snacks]

Minnesota had to get him locked up. He was a hometown kid and at the time top 5 player.

New park.

If he reached FA the Yankees and some other team I forget their names would have gotten in a huge bidding War for him. He may have gotten. 220-250MIL.

Is it too much now? Yes but at the time it was a good deal.

I just do not see Pujols getting more than 4 5 years.

Not with the injury and down year.

at the time it wasnt a good deal everyone knew they over paid and thats the problem. teams like minny need to be more selective with their money. the hometown local boy helped this guy so much but shouldnt have. hes a high avg hitter, thats it his resume shows what he is nothing more nothing less. but take away the name mauer and he would get half that on the open market and would still be overpaid. baseball is about run production, we can lie to ourselves about batting .330 or whatever. but a guy who hits .270 with 40 hr and 100 rbis yearly is much more valuable then a guy who bats .324 and gets 8 hrs and 77 rbis. if that high avg doesnt produce runs what good is it?

if the yanks overpaid him his .324 avg would mean more because there is more talent around him and if he has a year like this year they can make up for it because the all star team around him. they would have been better off letting him go. morneau who is also hurt a lot the past 2 years deserves more money then him and he got much less 6 years $80 million. They should have given mauer that type of deal at best.

[Snacks]

And where are you getting a #2 pitcher for. 7-10 mil?

1997?

Hudson is the #1 in ATL getting $9 mil a year for the next 3 years
Lester and buckholz just signed 5 years $30 million deals but im sure that had to do with arb and being a sox already
Arroyo #1 or 2 in cincy just signed 3 years 34 mill
Javier Vázquez #2 in fl 1 year $7 million
Brett myers #1 in hou 2 years $23 million.
Dan Haren #2 in anh 4 years $44mil
Kuroda $12 million per
Greinke #1 or 2 4 years $38 million

and on and on

not to mention you can sign guys like Jon Garland for $5 million for 1 year or shaun marcum for 1 year $3 million deals and many others like them.

Only the yankees have #2 and #3 over $15 million a year. Most teams if you look up their #1s arent true #1s but they arent making $5 million or more a year.

[Kevin]

None of those but Grinkie is a #2 type pitcher and Grinkie got that little because he was still in less than 6yrs service contact they always get less.

Javy Vasquez a #2? Really?

Those other guys are 3 4 starters on a mediocre team at best.

Vasquez 5th

[Snacks]

None of those but Grinkie is a #2 type pitcher and Grinkie got that little because he was still in less than 6yrs service contact they always get less.

Javy Vasquez a #2? Really?

Those other guys are 3 4 starters on a mediocre team at best.

Vasquez 5th

thats my point most teams cant afford guys to be #2 that the yanks can. Haren is a #1 or #2 on a lot of teams looks at pitt, and kc and det. The only pitcher in Det who makes any money is Verlander the other 3 or 4 starters makes nothing. Hudson is a #1 on Atl your saying he isnt a #2 on most teams? Lester could be a #1 on many teams he would be a #2 on the yanks! I only went through like 5-7 teams. If we went through all of baseball I bet not even 25% of starting pitchers make more then $10 million a year.

[Kevin]

thats my point most teams cant afford guys to be #2 that the yanks can. Haren is a #1 or #2 on a lot of teams looks at pitt, and kc and det. The only pitcher in Det who makes any money is Verlander the other 3 or 4 starters makes nothing. Hudson is a #1 on Atl yuour saying he isnt a #2 on most teams? Lester could be a #1 on many teams he would be a #2 on the yanks! I only went through like 5-7 teams. If we went through all of baseball I bet not even 25% of starting pitchers make more then $10 million a year.

Only the Yankees?

How much do cliff lee and Halladay Oswalt make?

How much does John Lackey make?

Lester is still young he will get at least 14 mil

Those guys are not #2 type starters.

Those guys are mediocre at best.

A #2 is worth at least 13-15 mil

[Snacks]

Only the Yankees?

How much do cliff lee and Halladay Oswalt make?

How much does John Lackey make?

Lester is still young he will get at least 14 mil

Those guys are not #2 type starters.

Those guys are mediocre at best.

A #2 is worth at least 13-15 mil

ok philly, bos, nyy... ? who else has $15 million #2s?

my point is with $23 million they could have easily paid 3 starters (1 sp 1 player with power and a def c) easily for what they gave to mauer who is not worth it and never was.

[Kevin]

Right now the good pitchers are either young guys who have yet to go into FA or aces.

Everyone else is mediocre and not #2 worthy.

[Earlshog]

According to multiple sources, the Blue Jays traded 2B Aaron Hill and infielder John McDonald to the Diamondbacks on Tuesday for 2B Kelly Johnson. Hill, who had 36 homers and 108 RBI in 2009, has been a disappointment again this year, batting .225 with six homers and 16 steals in 396 at-bats.

[hanso]

WTG Twins your DH makes history hitting 600th HR. A week later you put him on waivers.

[cougarjake13]

WTG Twins your DH makes history hitting 600th HR. A week later you put him on waivers.

maybe it was a gesture for him to maybe latch on a good team for a playoff run

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Saw that Phils, and Indians are interested in Thome

[cougarjake13]

Saw that Phils, and Indians are interested in Thome

naturally 2 of his former teams

[WRESTLINGFAN]

naturally 2 of his former teams

It would be good for the Phils but they dont really need him as much as Cleveland. Plus he could be used more for the AL Playoffs not just be a bench guy. Thats if they make the postseason

[cougarjake13]

It would be good for the Phils but they dont really need him as much as Cleveland. Plus he could be used more for the AL Playoffs not just be a bench guy. Thats if they make the postseason

yeh getting thome for phils would almost be just for pinch hitting or dh in the world series

[Kevin]

yeh getting thome for phils would almost be just for pinch hitting or dh in the world series


Please, like they are getting passed the mighty Epos.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Another great signing by the Yankees.

Soriano blows again

:wallbash:

[disneyspy]

ANOTHER double play from a tiger outfielder to win the game! valverde is now 38 of 38 in save opputunities

[cougarjake13]

Another great signing by the Yankees.

Soriano blows again

:wallbash:



he's never been a good setup guy

thats why i was shocked he signed with yanks and why yanks would sign him

[JimBeam]

It's silly when these guys complain about being setup versus closer.

You're still being asked to go only 1 inning and in a perfect world get out only 3 guys.

They can talk all they want about mindset and pressure but it's horseshit.

[disneyspy]

It's silly when these guys complain about being setup versus closer.

You're still being asked to go only 1 inning and in a perfect world get out only 3 guys.

They can talk all they want about mindset and pressure but it's horseshit.

i dont know,as a closer valverde is perfect(been awful lucky with some great defensive plays) with a ERA of like.3, in non save situations he has an ERA of 7. something and a losing won/loss record for the tigers

[hanso]

Another great signing by the Yankees.

Soriano blows again

:wallbash:

Yeah wasn't thinking of play off push as good thing for players. To hop on to a team that is gearing up.

Didn't the Yanks claim C Pena? I had just dropped him on fantasy bb.

[JimBeam]

i dont know,as a closer valverde is perfect(been awful lucky with some great defensive plays) with a ERA of like.3, in non save situations he has an ERA of 7. something and a losing won/loss record for the tigers

I'm not saying it doesn't impact them mentally but logically and physically it shouldn't matter.

If you're mentally strong enough to close a game you should be able to not close it.

[disneyspy]

I'm not saying it doesn't impact them mentally but logically and physically it shouldn't matter.

If you're mentally strong enough to close a game you should be able to not close it.

i agree with that but some of these players are alittle off, like the adrenaline doesnt hit them til their stats are on the line

[Kevin]

Another great signing by the Yankees.

Soriano blows again

:wallbash:

Sori has been pretty solid since coming off the DL.

Everyone has an off day, relax.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Good luck waiting for that to happen

http://blogs.rep-am.com/off_the_record/2011/08/14/so-when-does-thome-get-his-hbo-documentary/

From the article

By now, you have no doubt watched the HBO documentary on Derek Jeter as he ap*proached and passed the 3,000*hit mark. As a Jeter fan, I eagerly awaited the piece. As a baseball fan, I wondered: What in the world was that all about?

Dull, without life or energy, the one thing we learned from the Derek Doc was this: The man really has no personality at all. OK, fine, he is a great shortstop, but little more than a blank stare in front of the cam*era. So HBO, what’s up with the doc?

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

[Kevin]

Im starting to really think that Agon is the Alberto Del Rio of MLB..

MLB must really want a Mexican superstar and makes up stats for him..

Everything i have seen of him has been fucking terrible.

[Kevin]

I have also just about had it with Tex bumness.

He has done nothing against the redsox and 248 avg does not cut it. I don't care what his power stats are.

[cougarjake13]

I have also just about had it with Tex bumness.

He has done nothing against the redsox and 248 avg does not cut it. I don't care what his power stats are.

just a feel good redemption story

[Kevin]

OF course it did (http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/mets/mets_stake_talks_with_david_einhorn_dMJiXJkTvs7Ar0 KDsZXFyH)

Nice work Mets

[Earlshog]

Frank McCourt has been offered a record $1.2 billion for the Dodgers, the Los Angeles TImes' Bill Shaikin reports.


The bid is led by Los Angeles Maranthon founder Bill Burke and is also funded in part by Chinese investors. Burke would not comment when reached by Shaikin. Steve Surgerman, a McCourt spokesman, also declined comment.


The bid from Burke's group would be an all-cash deal for the team, all its real estate and the team's media rights. McCourt, reportedly, has hoped to keep Dodger Stadium and its parking lots if the team is sold.


According to the letter obtained by the Times, the offer expires in 21 days and would hope to close the deal within 90 days and be subject to approval from both the bankruptcy court and Major League Baseball.


Some of the money would come from "certain state-owned investment institutions of the People's Republic of China," in addition to other investors.


Two years ago the Rickettts family bought the Chicago Cubs for $845 million from the Tribune Company, setting a record for the highest price tag on a big league team.

[cougarjake13]

china doesnt own enough of us yet now they want baseball ??

[Kevin]

Alberto Del Gonzalez baby.

[cougarjake13]

OF course it did (http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/mets/mets_stake_talks_with_david_einhorn_dMJiXJkTvs7Ar0 KDsZXFyH)

Nice work Mets



fucking hate the wilpons

[JimBeam]

All this talk about Granderson being the MVP and I notice that Texeria's numbers aren't much differnt.

If I remember from what I saw last night he has 3 less HRs and only 7 less RBIs.

So how the hell is Granderson so much more valuable ?

Also I heard somebody this morning describe Burnett's 5 1/3 inning perfromance last night a " victory ".

Now I know with that guy even the little things mean a lot but I don't think something's a victory if you left the game when your team was trailing and you put them in that situation.

[Kevin]

All this talk about Granderson being the MVP and I notice that Texeria's numbers aren't much differnt.

If I remember from what I saw last night he has 3 less HRs and only 7 less RBIs.

So how the hell is Granderson so much more valuable ?

Also I heard somebody this morning describe Burnett's 5 1/3 inning perfromance last night a " victory ".

Now I know with that guy even the little things mean a lot but I don't think something's a victory if you left the game when your team was trailing and you put them in that situation.

Granderson has like 40 more run scored 30pts higher in avg

Not even close

[Snoogans]

Granderson has like 40 more run scored 30pts higher in avg

Not even close

pfft, none of them are close to A Gone

[Kevin]

pfft, none of them are close to A Gone

Well when you get 3pts per every hit on your avg in Sept, you must be good.

[JimBeam]

Granderson has like 40 more run scored 30pts higher in avg

Not even close

So having a higher average matters when it's Texeria v Granderson but not in the discussion when it's Granderson v Gonzalez/Ellesbery ( sp ?? on both of those ) ?

Not saying that's your personal belief but what I've heard from many Yankee fans.

But if you wanted to argue, from a runs producing point, Texeria's doing more with less.

[Kevin]

So having a higher average matters when it's Texeria v Granderson but not in the discussion when it's Granderson v Gonzalez/Ellesbery ( sp ?? on both of those ) ?

Not saying that's your personal belief but what I've heard from many Yankee fans.

But if you wanted to argue, from a runs producing point, Texeria's doing more with less.

I don't believe any Gonzalez Boston stat.

He is terrible til i see otherwise.

[A.J.]

I don't believe any Gonzalez Boston stat.

He is terrible til i see otherwise.

That's just the offense. Factor in the defense too.

[Kevin]

That's just the offense. Factor in the defense too.

Have not seen enough of his fielding to get an opinion on that.

I was watching YES in the middle game and AL Lieter made me laugh.

He said, watching Gonzalez, for such a high avg he sure misses alot of pitches.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Nice outing by CC today. 3rd year in a row that he has 19 wins. But the Cy Young wont be his. Verlander has that shit locked up

[Earlshog]

Phillies bitch slap Atlanta. 3 game sweep now up 10 1/2


On pace for 106 wins. That would be the most wins in a season since Seatlle won 116 in 2001. We all know how well that worked out for Seatlle. :surrender:

[TripleSkeet]

Too bad Seattle wont have to play the Diamondbacks, Braves or Brewers to get to the World Series.

[Earlshog]

Too bad Seattle wont have to play the Diamondbacks, Braves or Brewers to get to the World Series.

The Brew Crew scares me a little, not as much as SF did last year but a little. Seattle also didnt have Halladay, Lee, Hamels, and Oswalt. Nasty!

[TripleSkeet]

Im no Mets fan, but Joe Torre and Bud Selig are fucking assholes. Heres just another reason...

http://deadspin.com/5839331/

MLB's hopes for again being the go-to sports healing for September 11th were boned the second they realized the anniversary fell on an NFL Sunday. But they would have been hard-pressed to screw it up more than they did. The Yankees were on the road, the Nationals had a short little ceremony, and the Mets? Well, thanks to the Mets, MLB is getting exactly the wrong kind of press over their 9/11 remembrance—literally grabbing first responder hats out of the dugout to prevent the Mets from wearing them.

And yes, before we go any further, the "official" American flag hats the Mets were forced to wear last night are available for $36.99 at the MLB.com store.

The Mets' pregame ceremony was incredibly moving, and showed football that you don't have to go cheesily jingoistic to make your point. But the Mets players had one more gesture they wanted to make: they wanted to wear the caps of the NYPD, FDNY, PAPD and other first responders who lost people on September 11. It would have been a callback to the first game of baseball's return in 2001, when the Mets pulled out an emotional victory, and did so while representing the heroes and the dead.

It was not to be, even with Mike Piazza and John Franco in the ballpark last night. Last week MLB made their preemptive strike, sending a memo to all teams telling them they could only wear official hats on the field. As late as yesterday's batting practice, the Mets were thinking mutiny.

"What are they going to do, fine us?" asked catcher Josh Thole, the team's union rep. As it turns out, yes.


"They contacted the club and said it's an absolute 'no chance' at all," Thole said. "I guess the fines would be (prohibitive). I spoke with some of the guys and with Terry (Collins) and he said the same thing. They came down on the club very hard and there's nothing we can do.


The memo came from Joe Torre, MLB's VP of baseball operations. No hats, so as "to be consistent around the league." The same Joe Torre, who proudly donned NYPD and PAPD hats 10 years ago.

He could have taken a lesson from his erstwhile crosstown counterpart Bobby Valentine, who last night shared the story of how MLB tried to stop the Mets from wearing first responder caps in 2001.


"That's what they told us, we couldn't wear the hats," Valentine said. "We were getting ready to wear them in Pittsburgh for our first game back, when (GM) Steve (Phillips) came in and said, 'You can't wear them.'

"I said, 'Oh, OK, and I called a meeting and said, 'Hey, guys, you can't wear the hats.' Then Steve went upstairs, and as the guys came down the runway to the dugout, I stood there, handing out the caps we weren't supposed to wear."

"It was Todd Zeile who said they would have had to tear them off of us," Valentine said. "That's just the way the guys felt. They were a great group of guys who wanted to do the right thing."

Today's Mets did too, but the threat of huge fines was too much. Some players donned the first responder caps in the dugout, but after TV cameras captured David Wright wearing one, MLB sent a representative down to collect and remove them all from the dugout.

We're not dumb enough to think that MLB's edict means the nation is going to heal any slower, or that it's un-American or disrespectful. But just letting them wear the damn caps wouldn't have hurt anyone, and by letting this blow up into a mini-scandal, baseball once again proves how tone-deaf it can be to public perception when their profit margins are at stake.

[OGC]

Manny being Manny once more ?
(http://content.usatoday.com/communities/dailypitch/post/2011/09/report-manny-ramirez-arrested-after-domestic-dispute/1)

[ihaveabadmonkey]

Manny is batting 1.000 against his wife's face.

[spoon]

Im no Mets fan, but Joe Torre and Bud Selig are fucking assholes. Heres just another reason...

http://deadspin.com/5839331/

That's just fucking pathetic.

[cougarjake13]

Im no Mets fan, but Joe Torre and Bud Selig are fucking assholes. Heres just another reason...

http://deadspin.com/5839331/

seriously what does it hurt ??


its not like letting them wear it is all of a sudden gonna spark all teams to start wearing commerative caps of other shit or logos of whatever player is paid to rep

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Manny is batting 1.000 against his wife's face.

I wonder if he was weaing # 24 or 99

[brettmojo]

BUD SELIG SMASH! (http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/6964904/report-bud-selig-angry-new-york-mets-took-hat-flap-public)

Major League Baseball's commissioner called the Mets on Sunday night irate that the club had gone public that his office had prevented players from wearing the caps of Sept. 11 first responders for that night's game at Citi Field, the New York Posthttp://twitter-badges.s3.amazonaws.com/t_mini-a.png reported.
A Mets official told the newspaper that the commissioner said the team threw the league "under the bus."
"Selig got embarrassed by it," the official told the Post. "The game got moved into prime time (on ESPN) because of 9/11, and MLB ended up getting embarrassed."
MLB disciplinary czar Joe Torre claims that the league didn't lean that heavily on the Mets.
"Nothing was ordered," he said during an interview on Sirius XM Radiohttp://twitter-badges.s3.amazonaws.com/t_mini-a.png. "I think they were sent a memo, but in no way was it heavy-handed. I don't think money was ever an issue or they were ever threatened with a heavy-fisted fine. If that's the case, I have no knowledge of it."

[TripleSkeet]

BUD SELIG SMASH! (http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/6964904/report-bud-selig-angry-new-york-mets-took-hat-flap-public)

Fuck him. I never understood this kind of thing. If youre going to be a dickhead about rules, like they were with this whole hat debacle, then dont get fucking mad when someone calls you out on your bullshit. If you know youre going to be embarrassed if the press finds out about you enforcing this rule, then DONT ENFORCE THE FUCKING RULE. But to get mad at the Mets for just telling the truth? Go fuck yourself you pathetic piece of shit.

By the way, I LOVED how Bobby Valentine said he handled it.

[TripleSkeet]

LMAO This is aweome...
<iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/bq80TxKcRBk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Kevin]

Torre is a scumbag.

From saying on Letterman that he is in talks with the Dodgers while Little was still the manager, to the rat tell all book he wrote.

I'm so pissed at the Yankees for having him back at the stadium.

[cougarjake13]

Fuck him. I never understood this kind of thing. If youre going to be a dickhead about rules, like they were with this whole hat debacle, then dont get fucking mad when someone calls you out on your bullshit. If you know youre going to be embarrassed if the press finds out about you enforcing this rule, then DONT ENFORCE THE FUCKING RULE. But to get mad at the Mets for just telling the truth? Go fuck yourself you pathetic piece of shit.

By the way, I LOVED how Bobby Valentine said he handled it.

i seriously cant stand selig


fuck isnt he suposed to be gone as commish already ??


cant come soon enough

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Wakefield finally gets win # 200

600 Saves for Rivera :clap::clap::clap:

[cougarjake13]

Wakefield finally gets win # 200

600 Saves for Rivera :clap::clap::clap:

only a few more to pass hoffman right ?

[Dirtbag]

only a few more to pass hoffman right ?

Hoffman retired with 601. Guess he got out while the gettin' was good.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Very big couple of weeks for NY,BOS,TB should be very interesting going down the stretch. Jays could play spoilers.


Looks like a friendly breakup btwn Fielder and the Brewers

[hanso]

Just Manny beating non- MANny .

[cougarjake13]

Hoffman retired with 601. Guess he got out while the gettin' was good.

also he couldnt save a game for his life in a brewers uni for a lil while b4 he retired

[cougarjake13]

Very big couple of weeks for NY,BOS,TB should be very interesting going down the stretch. Jays could play spoilers.


Looks like a friendly breakup btwn Fielder and the Brewers

i wouldnt say it;ll be friendly

hopefully theyll win it all b4 they break up

[spoon]

Wow Jeter is just an AWFUL SS. He throws like fucking Chuck Knobs I swear and his range is shit. Every time the Jays play the yanks his throws are all over the fucking place and Tex saves his ass almost every time. I'd be willing to be that w/o Tex and their friendly scoring for pretty boy, his error rate would be comical. He fields fine when it's hit close enough to him, but even then he throws it away. He chalked up another error tonight.

Also, watching tonight's game highlights just how insane Bautista's stats are. He was walked 4 fucking times and he simply sees very little to hit and he's still putting up crazy numbers with little help in the lineup. If he was slotted into A Gonz or Granderson's spots the numbers would be scary. The only guys I think deserves it as much as Jose, is Elsbury bc he simply does it all and Verlander, but he'll get the Cy. All in question have had awesome years I don't take that away, but sorry I just can't go for either Gonzalez or Granderson.

[disneyspy]

i like how the tigers are hot at the right part of the season,double sweeps of the chisox and indians and blow that race apart and won the division last night,

only thing left to do is take homefield away from the yanks

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[cougarjake13]

i like how the tigers are hot at the right part of the season,double sweeps of the chisox and indians and blow that race apart and won the division last night,

only thing left to do is take homefield away from the yanks

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yeh i remember the same thing happening in 06 and then they swept the alcs and had to wait a week for the cards and mets to finish up and fucked them alll up

[cougarjake13]

Wow Jeter is just an AWFUL SS. He throws like fucking Chuck Knobs I swear and his range is shit. Every time the Jays play the yanks his throws are all over the fucking place and Tex saves his ass almost every time. I'd be willing to be that w/o Tex and their friendly scoring for pretty boy, his error rate would be comical. He fields fine when it's hit close enough to him, but even then he throws it away. He chalked up another error tonight.

Also, watching tonight's game highlights just how insane Bautista's stats are. He was walked 4 fucking times and he simply sees very little to hit and he's still putting up crazy numbers with little help in the lineup. If he was slotted into A Gonz or Granderson's spots the numbers would be scary. The only guys I think deserves it as much as Jose, is Elsbury bc he simply does it all and Verlander, but he'll get the Cy. All in question have had awesome years I don't take that away, but sorry I just can't go for either Gonzalez or Granderson.

it wont be long


jeter will have to move to the outfield or dh

[A.J.]

Also, watching tonight's game highlights just how insane Bautista's stats are. He was walked 4 fucking times and he simply sees very little to hit and he's still putting up crazy numbers with little help in the lineup. If he was slotted into A Gonz or Granderson's spots the numbers would be scary. The only guys I think deserves it as much as Jose, is Elsbury bc he simply does it all and Verlander, but he'll get the Cy. All in question have had awesome years I don't take that away, but sorry I just can't go for either Gonzalez or Granderson.

True, but I'd give Granderson some MVP consideration because his offense pretty much carried that team when Jeter was batting my weight and ARod was on the DL. They wouldn't be first in the AL East without him -- well, and my Sox shitting the bed this month.

[disneyspy]

i cant fucking believe that granderson is getting any MVP talk,i've liked grandy since he was a tiger but just because he's an everyday player doesnt mean he's feared liked the most dominating pitcher in two decades like verlander

[disneyspy]

yeh i remember the same thing happening in 06 and then they swept the alcs and had to wait a week for the cards and mets to finish up and fucked them alll up

maybe this year the yankees will give them some competion and not get destroyed so quickly

[A.J.]

i cant fucking believe that granderson is getting any MVP talk,i've liked grandy since he was a tiger but just because he's an everyday player doesnt mean he's feared liked the most dominating pitcher in two decades like verlander

Umm, he's not in Pedro territory just yet.

[disneyspy]

Umm, he's not in Pedro territory just yet.

no way pedro could pitch as many innings as verlander,hell the tigers closer has better numbers than pedro,42-0 as a closer this year

edit: sorry he's 45 out of 45 in save oppurtunities this year

double edit:i was thinking of rivera,still no pitcher has had this kind of season since the last time a pitcher won MVP-clemens

[sailor]

no way pedro could pitch as many innings as verlander

...

no pitcher has had this kind of season since the last time a pitcher won MVP-clemens

jv 23-5 2.36 238k

pm 23-4 2.07 313k

pedro was better in '99

pedro has also pitched more innings in a season (241) then verlander ever has (verlander should pass that mark his next start).

[Kevin]

When you take into effect that 97-02 Pedro pitched in the height of the steroids era, smaller parks etc.

His numbers make him the best pitcher to ever play the game.

Verlander is great but he not even close to Pedro,


Verlander might get the MVP because of Granderson and Gonzo's awful Sept and Bautista being on a 4th place team.

But i still hold firm that if Pedro didn't win the MVP in 99, then no pitcher should ever win it again.

[disneyspy]

pedro had an awesome year and was robbed cuz nomaaaaar took some votes away,still i looked it up and he barely lost to pudge

i think the same thing will happen to verlander because cabrera and martinez are having such a strong year

[disneyspy]

When you take into effect that 97-02 Pedro pitched in the height of the steroids era, smaller parks etc.

His numbers make him the best pitcher to ever play the game.

Verlander is great but he not even close to Pedro,


Verlander might get the MVP because of Granderson and Gonzo's awful Sept and Bautista being on a 4th place team.

But i still hold firm that if Pedro didn't win the MVP in 99, then no pitcher should ever win it again.
we're talking this year and verlander isnt even done with year yet and is killing pedro in stikeouts and innings pitched-dominance

[Kevin]

we're talking this year and verlander isnt even done with year yet and is killing pedro in stikeouts and innings pitched-dominance

I understand that but its a totally different game now than it was then.

The offensive numbers aren't nearly as big now than it was then.

Is he the best pitcher in the Game this year? Absaloutly.

The only 2 that are near him are Halladay and Lee.

But neither are as good as Pedro was.

[spoon]

i like how the tigers are hot at the right part of the season,double sweeps of the chisox and indians and blow that race apart and won the division last night,

only thing left to do is take homefield away from the yanks

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Hoping my Jays can help you out there. No more Farrell flu breaks tied to sweeps like last time.

Oh and another nice Jeter 2 bounce throw from ss. He's fucking awful if he has to move to his right AT ALL!

[spoon]

True, but I'd give Granderson some MVP consideration because his offense pretty much carried that team when Jeter was batting my weight and ARod was on the DL. They wouldn't be first in the AL East without him -- well, and my Sox shitting the bed this month.

cough cough Cano cough

[spoon]

i cant fucking believe that granderson is getting any MVP talk,i've liked grandy since he was a tiger but just because he's an everyday player doesnt mean he's feared liked the most dominating pitcher in two decades like verlander

Look I LOVE Verlander and the year he's having, but to give him the MVP is bs to me. It's the Cy/best pitcher. For a guy to get MVP off the mound he better have almost 30 wins and an era under 2.00. Even then, it's the unwritten rule that pitching is judged via the Cy bc a guy on the mound every 5 days for 36 starts isn't the same as 155 starts at in the field with 600 abs.

[sailor]

we're talking this year and verlander isnt even done with year yet and is killing pedro in stikeouts and innings pitched-dominance

sorry, that was my fault. i mixed the k's up between the two guys. pedro has many more.

[A.J.]

cough cough Cano cough

Absolutely. Him too.

[spoon]

When you take into effect that 97-02 Pedro pitched in the height of the steroids era, smaller parks etc.

His numbers make him the best pitcher to ever play the game.

Verlander is great but he not even close to Pedro,


Verlander might get the MVP because of Granderson and Gonzo's awful Sept and Bautista being on a 4th place team.

But i still hold firm that if Pedro didn't win the MVP in 99, then no pitcher should ever win it again.

I honestly think the writers/league should fully sep the awards and take it out of the realm of possibility. Cy pitchers/MVP everyday players. It's usually how it works, but why not just make the stipulation.

Also, Verlander is in his prime now being just 28 he can surely establish himself even more to compete with Pedro's stats. He has 5 great years out of 6 full seasons, and the off year he still had 11 wins. I love both pitchers, but let's not act like Pedro or any pitcher is untouchable. Verlander has been plain sick this year, and will be adding an MVP to his resume very soon.

Finally, the 4th place team argument, ESPECIALLY in the AL EAST, is complete bullshit. In fact, to me it only enhances his stats and MVP status. Bautista has to face both the Yankees TB and Sox more times than any other player not on Toronto or Baltimore. Gonalez, Granderson and Cano all get to face one less monster, while the rest of the league gets to enjoy the unbalanced schedule and face these power teams less. Also, he has very little to protect him at this point in the lineup. He's played two positions very well, moving mid-year to help the team out TWICE (RF to 3rd back to RF). If he finishes behind all those I listed above, it's a joke in my mind. Especially since roidrod got the MVP playing in a hitters park on a team that finished dead last. I know you may be just pointing out how the writers work, and you'd be right, but I'm NOT a fan of this unwritten rule.

[spoon]

I understand that but its a totally different game now than it was then.

The offensive numbers aren't nearly as big now than it was then.

Is he the best pitcher in the Game this year? Absaloutly.

The only 2 that are near him are Halladay and Lee.

But neither are as good as Pedro was.

Where is this Pedro boner coming from? He should have the second most Cys ever to Johnson when all is said and done, but roiled Clemens took a few away from both after he left Boston. However, I'd argue plenty Pedro versus plenty of other pitchers from multiple standpoints, including Halladay. Obviously I'm biased in that argument, but there are others from his era as well.

[spoon]

Nice play Cano!

[Snacks]

I honestly think the writers/league should fully sep the awards and take it out of the realm of possibility. Cy pitchers/MVP everyday players. It's usually how it works, but why not just make the stipulation.

Also, Verlander is in his prime now being just 28 he can surely establish himself even more to compete with Pedro's stats. He has 5 great years out of 6 full seasons, and the off year he still had 11 wins. I love both pitchers, but let's not act like Pedro or any pitcher is untouchable. Verlander has been plain sick this year, and will be adding an MVP to his resume very soon.

Finally, the 4th place team argument, ESPECIALLY in the AL EAST, is complete bullshit. In fact, to me it only enhances his stats and MVP status. Bautista has to face both the Yankees TB and Sox more times than any other player not on Toronto or Baltimore. Gonalez, Granderson and Cano all get to face one less monster, while the rest of the league gets to enjoy the unbalanced schedule and face these power teams less. Also, he has very little to protect him at this point in the lineup. He's played two positions very well, moving mid-year to help the team out TWICE (RF to 3rd back to RF). If he finishes behind all those I listed above, it's a joke in my mind. Especially since roidrod got the MVP playing in a hitters park on a team that finished dead last. I know you may be just pointing out how the writers work, and you'd be right, but I'm NOT a fan of this unwritten rule.

and arod also got fucked out of an mvp because of the team he played on and where he played in 2002. he had 23 more hrs, 11 more rbis, 17 more runs scored, batted only 8 points lower, had 50 more walks wit 150 point higher ops and 115 point higher slugging % and lost the mvp to Tejada. So sometimes the best #s doesnt win you the award. Finishing in last or close to last didnt help.

Granderson might get it that .264 batting avg hurts him big but he has 39 hrs 2nd in the AL, 111 rbis 1st in the AL, 128 runs 1st in the AL, 10 triples 2nd AL and add 24 stolen bases thats a mvp year right there. That avg really does hurt him. I wonder if Gonzo batting 70 points higher would get the mvp over him even though his hr totals slowed to almost a stop but his other stats are pretty good?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

601



:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

[spoon]

and arod also got fucked out of an mvp because of the team he played on and where he played in 2002. he had 23 more hrs, 11 more rbis, 17 more runs scored, batted only 8 points lower, had 50 more walks wit 150 point higher ops and 115 point higher slugging % and lost the mvp to Tejada. So sometimes the best #s doesnt win you the award. Finishing in last or close to last didnt help.

Granderson might get it that .264 batting avg hurts him big but he has 39 hrs 2nd in the AL, 111 rbis 1st in the AL, 128 runs 1st in the AL, 10 triples 2nd AL and add 24 stolen bases thats a mvp year right there. That avg really does hurt him. I wonder if Gonzo batting 70 points higher would get the mvp over him even though his hr totals slowed to almost a stop but his other stats are pretty good?

Granderson gets rbis and runs bc of the team he's on and the lineup around him. Yes he's putting up some solid power numbers too, but he had SOOOO much protection even when a guy is out here and there. Sorry, to hit .264, and not any better with runners on or in scoring position, it's bc of how OFTEN he does so. It's the equivalent to wins by a pitcher on a good versus bad team (offensive / defensive support), versus looking at ERA and WHIP. Dismissing Average and OB%, especially such a HUGE margin is insane!

[Kevin]

I honestly think the writers/league should fully sep the awards and take it out of the realm of possibility. Cy pitchers/MVP everyday players. It's usually how it works, but why not just make the stipulation.

Also, Verlander is in his prime now being just 28 he can surely establish himself even more to compete with Pedro's stats. He has 5 great years out of 6 full seasons, and the off year he still had 11 wins. I love both pitchers, but let's not act like Pedro or any pitcher is untouchable. Verlander has been plain sick this year, and will be adding an MVP to his resume very soon.

Finally, the 4th place team argument, ESPECIALLY in the AL EAST, is complete bullshit. In fact, to me it only enhances his stats and MVP status. Bautista has to face both the Yankees TB and Sox more times than any other player not on Toronto or Baltimore. Gonalez, Granderson and Cano all get to face one less monster, while the rest of the league gets to enjoy the unbalanced schedule and face these power teams less. Also, he has very little to protect him at this point in the lineup. He's played two positions very well, moving mid-year to help the team out TWICE (RF to 3rd back to RF). If he finishes behind all those I listed above, it's a joke in my mind. Especially since roidrod got the MVP playing in a hitters park on a team that finished dead last. I know you may be just pointing out how the writers work, and you'd be right, but I'm NOT a fan of this unwritten rule.

I agree, I'm just saying usually the writers go with a weaker candidate if he is on a winning team.

I think Granderson would have won it if his avg was in the 280 range. But 264 won't cut it.

I think its either Verlander or Bautista if you are looking at things pure.

[Kevin]

and arod also got fucked out of an mvp because of the team he played on and where he played in 2002. he had 23 more hrs, 11 more rbis, 17 more runs scored, batted only 8 points lower, had 50 more walks wit 150 point higher ops and 115 point higher slugging % and lost the mvp to Tejada. So sometimes the best #s doesnt win you the award. Finishing in last or close to last didnt help.

Granderson might get it that .264 batting avg hurts him big but he has 39 hrs 2nd in the AL, 111 rbis 1st in the AL, 128 runs 1st in the AL, 10 triples 2nd AL and add 24 stolen bases thats a mvp year right there. That avg really does hurt him. I wonder if Gonzo batting 70 points higher would get the mvp over him even though his hr totals slowed to almost a stop but his other stats are pretty good?


Giambi also that year Ichiro won the ROY/MVP.

[hanso]

Lots of talk on teams that woun't go far.

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[Fallon]

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What the fuck was that?!
:thumbdown:

[Kevin]

Watching the encore of the Yankee Jays game.

What an at bat by Granderson in the 7th,

12 pitches then homer.

[brettmojo]

Watching the encore of the Yankee Jays game.

What an at bat by Granderson in the 7th,

12 pitches then homer.
It'd be nice to see him go on a hot streak these last couple weeks not even to get himself back atop the MVP race but just to have him have a good finish for his great season and have him hot going into the playoffs.

[TripleSkeet]

5 Time...5 Time...5 Time...5 Time...5 Time..

[Kevin]

5 Time...5 Time...5 Time...5 Time...5 Time..

The Cali little league world champs can win the awful div these past 5 yrs.

[TripleSkeet]

The Cali little league world champs can win the awful div these past 5 yrs.

Youre not really going to try and act like their record is the result of a weak division....are you?

[Kevin]

Youre not really going to try and act like their record is the result of a weak division....are you?

Nope, its a result of a weak league..

[TripleSkeet]

Nope, its a result of a weak league..


Best team in baseball.

[Kevin]

Best team in baseball.

Maybe the case. But you can't deny that the NL is terrible.

[styckx]

5 Time...5 Time...5 Time...5 Time...5 Time..

MLB might have outdone themselves in the shameless self promotion catagory with those awful fucking hats.

For those who didn't see the front of the hat, representing the Phillies 5 consecutive NL East Title, it looks like this.

http://mlb.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pMLB2-11203690dt.jpg

[spoon]

MLB might have outdone themselves in the shameless self promotion catagory with those awful fucking hats.

For those who didn't see the front of the hat, representing the Phillies 5 consecutive NL East Title, it looks like this.

http://mlb.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pMLB2-11203690dt.jpg

pathetic

Everything this league does or touches is awful. I guess we'll be seeing this hat 7 more times soon enough with Detroit, NYY, Boston, Texas, Atlanta, Milwaukee & Arizona's logo on it. Also, if the league is so important overall, why not fucking run the damn thing as if all the teams were the product, not just 6 markets assholes.

oh and key, the nl east is pretty tough division as well

hell, the top two teams have more pitching than the whole AL East division

[Kevin]

pathetic

Everything this league does or touches is awful. I guess we'll be seeing this hat 7 more times soon enough with Detroit, NYY, Boston, Texas, Atlanta, Milwaukee & Arizona's logo on it. Also, if the league is so important overall, why not fucking run the damn thing as if all the teams were the product, not just 6 markets assholes.

oh and key, the nl east is pretty tough division as well

hell, the top two teams have more pitching than the whole AL East division

Im willing to concede this year because of the Braves, but the past 4 years the div has been terrible.

But besides 3 teams Philly Braves Mil. The NL is pretty terrible.

[spoon]

Im willing to concede this year because of the Braves, but the past 4 years the div has been terrible.

But besides 3 teams Philly Braves Mil. The NL is pretty terrible.

The AL has their share of garbage as well Kev, Baltimore, Seattle, KC, Oakland and now Minny joined the party of suck.

Hell the AL East has 4 teams over .500 and they play an unbalanced schedule. Both the AL West and Central combined only have 3 and it's played out this way for years now. Hate MLB of late and it's awful setup and lack of cap in any form.

[Kevin]

The AL has their share of garbage as well Kev, Baltimore, Seattle, KC, Oakland and now Minny joined the party of suck.

Hell the AL East has 4 teams over .500 and they play an unbalanced schedule. Both the AL West and Central combined only have 3 and it's played out this way for years now. Hate MLB of late and it's awful setup and lack of cap in any form.

I guess.

Maybe there is just too many teams, or the economy has crippled the lesser teams even more.

Besides The Yanks Sox Philly, Maybe Texas. People just can't afford to go to a ball game as much as they did.

And that's hurt all around.

People think having an advantage in money is just pure payroll. But its scouting, number of scouts and quality, and alot of other stuff that you just do not see.

Hell even the draft has become about money. How many people fall to the lower picks because the teams feel they can't sign them.

Its pretty much a mess and its starting to show in the quality of the game.

You can't even base it on attendence.

Yea parks could avg the same as Yankee or Philly or Bos LA, but you just cant charge as much per ticket as you can in this citys.

Cinci ticket prices iare prob 1/3rd of the top 4. So even though they may avg 35 40k in a contending year the revenue is like if the others avgd like 20k

[spoon]

Yes, a lot of that is true and mlb's fault by not only lacking any pay setup for draft selections as the NHL does and now the NFL too, but allowing teams to sign 15 year olds in Venezuela and the DR versus them having to go into the draft themselves at the age of 18 at least. It's really not fair to US, Canadian and PR players having to be selected versus others PICKING where they go and to the highest bidder.

I truly think MLB does everything it can to help big market teams, exactly the markets that don't need any help. The draft is a mess itself as you pointed out, but adding the fact that one can just go out and sign international free agents pretty much means it can be rendered useless if a team can just go out and sign all the Japanese, Venezuelan, Dominican prospects and Cuban defectors it needs to supplement their picks...which even if last usually are top talent now anyway bc other teams can't pay what top teams can as they splash cash all over bc they have plenty.

Another issue hurting MLB's smaller teams these days are they truly lack identities and core players that they once had even when playing awful. The days of the hometown player are gone bc they get sucked up at the first try almost every time by the big 6 teams and the one odd team throwing money around that thinks it has it's small window of opp about to close (Florida), or fan base to rile up (Washington).

Long gone are the days of Brett in KC or Stargell in Pitt until they employ some semblance of a cap in MLB. I fucking loathe Selig for so many other reasons, but this is my main focus overall.

[spoon]

when did kevin start making good points?

seriously, my head hurts right now bc of it

[Kevin]

when did kevin start making good points?

seriously, my head hurts right now bc of it

First i pay my bet now this..

Maybe the Mayans are right!

[TripleSkeet]

MLB might have outdone themselves in the shameless self promotion catagory with those awful fucking hats.

For those who didn't see the front of the hat, representing the Phillies 5 consecutive NL East Title, it looks like this.

http://mlb.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pMLB2-11203690dt.jpg

They are awful. Not to mention they cover the entire playoffs. I wouldve much rather had NL East Champions hats like they did a few years back. First bought the Division champs hat, then NL Champs hat and finally WS Champs hat. This one just screams generic.

[disneyspy]

First i pay my bet now this..

Maybe the Mayans are right!

what the fuck,it's like hippo might actually do something in our pickem league now

[disneyspy]

you can't blame the economy on attendance,detroit of all cities has had packed ballparks all year

[hanso]

What the fuck was that?!
:thumbdown:

Rap. The youngins still like it. :king::wallbash::flush:

[Kevin]

you can't blame the economy on attendance,detroit of all cities has had packed ballparks all year


Meh, I'm sure it's alot more people from the places in Mich other than Details going. Do you know what the aggressive tix price is there? And what's the high low. I bet its nowhere near what it is in the top 6.

[disneyspy]

Meh, I'm sure it's alot more people from the places in Mich other than Details going. Do you know what the aggressive tix price is there? And what's the high low. I bet its nowhere near what it is in the top 6.

they ran promotions constantly during july (4 for 40 in the pepsi concourse,nose bleed ) but that was it,the standing was 15 bucks, those were the only tickets we could get for A DAY GAME! it was a last minute idea

my point was if you put a good team on the field people will show up,of course it is the D,even when the tigers were were nearing the record for losses a few years back they out drew tampa

[spoon]

you can't blame the economy on attendance,detroit of all cities has had packed ballparks all year

that just shows even in down times people will pay for 3-4 hours of safety

[spoon]

they ran promotions constantly during july (4 for 40 in the pepsi concourse,nose bleed ) but that was it,the standing was 15 bucks, those were the only tickets we could get for A DAY GAME! it was a last minute idea

my point was if you put a good team on the field people will show up,of course it is the D,even when the tigers were were nearing the record for losses a few years back they out drew tampa

Let's just face it people, Disney spy loves the D, anything to do with the D and of course going down to the D.

[disneyspy]

Let's just face it people, Disney spy loves the D, anything to do with the D and of course going down to the D.

HA! i've got no comeback,unlike you

[spoon]

HA! i've got no comeback,unlike you

yah cumface fits much better for you at this point slurpyspy

[sailor]

that just shows even in down times people will pay for 3-4 hours of safety

yeah, i was just going to say they see the stadium as a safe haven, but ya beat me to it.

[cougarjake13]

they ran promotions constantly during july (4 for 40 in the pepsi concourse,nose bleed ) but that was it,the standing was 15 bucks, those were the only tickets we could get for A DAY GAME! it was a last minute idea

my point was if you put a good team on the field people will show up,of course it is the D,even when the tigers were were nearing the record for losses a few years back they out drew tampa

well what the fuck else would you do in detriot besides drugs and hookers

shitty baseball team here ... everyone goes to the beach

[Snoogans]

spoon will love this article involving money ball and his boy Richardi (http://deadspin.com/5841063/your-field-guide-to-the-assorted-kerfuffles-over-moneyball-the-movie)

especially read the stories they link to in this story

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Move over Hoffman # 602 for Rivera

[Sinestro]

602! Congrats to the most successful failed starter ever. #42.

[cougarjake13]

prob will never be broken

hell i dont think anyone will get close to 450 let alone 600



i just dont see a closer having the longevity of rivera to get to him

[Snoogans]

prob will never be broken

hell i dont think anyone will get close to 450 let alone 600



i just dont see a closer having the longevity of rivera to get to him

trevor hoffman got 601 and he sucked balls. so, it could happen. fuck, JOHN FRANCO has over 400 saves

[cougarjake13]

trevor hoffman got 601 and he sucked balls. so, it could happen. fuck, JOHN FRANCO has over 400 saves

yeh that was then and im sure in the future there will somebody, always is


but no one right now looks like they'll be around that long

hell the only other active closer on the 300 career saves list is frany cordero and hes only got 323 and hes been around 12 yrs

[Dirtbag]

trevor hoffman got 601 and <strike>he</strike> San Diego sucked balls. so, it could happen. fuck, JOHN FRANCO has over 400 saves

FTFY

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I checked baseballreference.com and I didnt realize Billy Wagner has over 400 saves

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Anyone notice that they kept zooming into Derek Jeter so many times when they all congratulated Rivera?

Holy shit even on Mo's day it has to be about Jeter

[cougarjake13]

yes someone can do it



my point though was i dont see any current closers sticking around long enough to complie 400 plus saves



will papelbohn still be closing in 5 yrs ?


or f-rod ?

[brettmojo]

:drunk: