2012 POTUS and Congress General election off-season thread

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You think being a daytrader makes you an expert on the economy? That's like saying someone who scratches lottery tickets is an expert on the economy.

I guess you didn't see my other experience. Get back to your job as a cherry picker.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Sorry, I can't argue with you all day. I have to get back to my real job. Good luck at your made-up-so-you-can-win-an-internet-argument job.

BTW Thank you for your concern that I don't get out during the day, I have not cloned myself so I still have to do my own chart reading, research etc.

[Syd]

Why aren't you addressing the actual operations and functions of the fed as well as how it has not been beneficial?

Well if the closest comparison is the ECB, the Federal Reserve is 100x better. Mandating for full employment is extremely important.


Maybe you know or don't know about the fed. I'm not sure about that, however people who do know what the fed has done in it's 100 years and never being audited despite being a private bank (colluding with government) just want the practice to continue of creating debt from nothing.

The debt isn't created "from nothing" it's created based on the promise of growth. America's total capital is rapidly approaching $200 trillion. The growth has been very steady and completely unyielding.

Yellen, looks to continue the spigot pouring of 85 billion monthly

The dollar is circling the drain of deflation and the Federal Reserve is trying hard to keep it from sinking the economy. If anything, the spigot needs to be opened up to help bring inflation back in line with the stated goals of the Fed.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Well if the closest comparison is the ECB, the Federal Reserve is 100x better. Mandating for full employment is extremely important.




The debt isn't created "from nothing" it's created based on the promise of growth. America's total capital is rapidly approaching $200 trillion. The growth has been very steady and completely unyielding.



The dollar is circling the drain of deflation and the Federal Reserve is trying hard to keep it from sinking the economy. If anything, the spigot needs to be opened up to help bring inflation back in line with the stated goals of the Fed.

Compared to the Astros, The Mets are stellar

The debt is made from thin air. Those greenbacks in your wallet are federal reserve notes.
The government isn't issuing the money directly, it's borrowed from the fed with interest. Each denomination created is tacks on more debt and interest.

Since The 08 Collapse, the fed has pumped trillions into its member banks, for the most part they are sitting on that money or lending other banks money at near zero int rates. Otherwise know as fed funds rate.

We are nowhere near full employment. Throw in the U-6 and its anywhere from 15-20%

[Syd]

unemployment in America is far better than the EU, also inflation is better

[SonOfSmeagol]

I have to go to work, so for now this will be my last point on this.
Sorry, I can't argue with you all day. I have to get back to my real job.
get back to work fuckin goldbricks and stop dickin around on R&F all fuckin day :blink:

[foodcourtdruide]

unemployment in America is far better than the EU, also inflation is better

Greece and Spain alone are at 27% each.

[Syd]

They do have more honest numbers, but, yeah, EU is really goddamn bad because their central bank has no mandate for employment.

On another note, saying what we already know:

As the second week of the shutdown grinds on, I thought some data collected by DePaul professor Wayne Steger for a project on hypocrisy in ideological appeals might be informative. Wayne scanned the database of the National Review, an iconic conservative magazine/website, for terms indicating interest in fiscal restraint: "balanced budget," "cut spending," and "cut taxes." The results suggest that the conservative publication's interest in fiscal restraint peaks when Democrats hold unified control of government and wanes during divided or Republican control of government.

http://mischiefsoffaction.blogspot.com/2013/10/fiscal-conservatism-is-for-losers.html

[Kevin]

And the new spokes face for the Republican party iiiiiisssss


THIS GUY!

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/192w85x9nl0ogjpg/original.jpg

[WRESTLINGFAN]

About 400 million spent in IT infrastructure for the website exchanges. Week 3 and still people are having trouble signing up.


The lackeys still are making comparisons to Apple

[Syd]

So do you want the government to spend unnecessary money to deal with the temporary problem or do you want the government to do what every company on earth does and just lets demand fall to normal levels

time to choose, capitalism or socialism

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Obamacare isn't socialism , but it sure ain't capitalism

Money was confiscated via threat of a barrel and a gun to pay an outside firm to build the sites

Also where was the due diligence on the part of the Feds ? Where was HHS and that company conducting all the QA?

I know the Feds aren't supposed to turn a profit , however this is just another example of waste , no oversight or accountability across the spectrum, which includes yes neocons the DoD

[Syd]

so you want the government to create more waste to create overhead for the temporary abundance of demand

[SonOfSmeagol]

so you want the government to create more waste to create overhead for the temporary abundance of demand
Ya, lots of people would love to continue this narrative that it's "just demand", but the issues seem much deeper in terms of basic architectural flaws and bad design. Even Ezra Klein thinks so.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

How will there be demand when there's an inferior product which is the platform for Obamacare?



The estimates are that 7 million people need to sign up. If the product is defective then where will the demand be?


People aren't buying blackberries like they used to, they want Samsung and Apples mainly for the smart phone market

There will remain to be loyal BB customers but the market is rejecting them for the most part.

[Syd]

phones and healthcare are totally the same thing

downloaded an app to get my meniscus checked i'm wrestling fan fuck immigrants

[Syd]

Ya, lots of people would love to continue this narrative that it's "just demand", but the issues seem much deeper in terms of basic architectural flaws and bad design. Even Ezra Klein thinks so.

yes ezra "single payer" klein thinks obamacare is bad

next thing you know you will tell me that the sun will rise in the east today

[Dude!]

next thing you know you will tell me that the sun will rise in the east today

what he won't be telling you
is how many people
have signed up for obamacare

doesn't it bother you
that they are being so secretive?

i don't like a government that
lies or hides the truth
and the current admin is doing
that in spades (no pun intended)

[SonOfSmeagol]

yes ezra "single payer" klein thinks obamacare is bad

next thing you know you will tell me that the sun will rise in the east today
Well, no, no one said that. I was clearly talking about the implementation/web system.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

phones and healthcare are totally the same thing

downloaded an app to get my meniscus checked i'm wrestling fan fuck immigrants



Are they ?


People wait in line for days to get a new phone.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

what he won't be telling you
is how many people
have signed up for obamacare

doesn't it bother you
that they are being so secretive?

i don't like a government that
lies or hides the truth
and the current admin is doing
that in spades (no pun intended)



It takes time for the most transparent administration ever to double count and count dead people.

[SonOfSmeagol]

http://government.mrdonn.org/banner_congress.gif

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Booker is your new Senator from NJ

[Dude!]

Booker is your new Senator from NJ

lucky NJ...
black AND gay

[Syd]

Well, no, no one said that. I was clearly talking about the implementation/web system.

which is a longstanding issue, no one has been able to figure out a system that scales efficiently from upfront, release day demand to normal levels of demand -- online gaming will likely forever be plagued by it

[Syd]

Are they ?


People wait in line for days to get a new phone.

people wait in line for days to get healthcare too

http://www.sfgate.com/nation/article/Free-health-clinic-in-Appalachia-3483072.php

[A.J.]

Back to work. Thanks Congress.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

people wait in line for days to get healthcare too

http://www.sfgate.com/nation/article/Free-health-clinic-in-Appalachia-3483072.php



People will line up for anything if its "free"

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Oh here we go again. Another speech by Barack and now the push is for amnesty and more corporate welfare via a farm bill. Monsanto can't wait!!!

[Syd]

People will line up for anything if its "free"

true but people won't die of sepsis if they don't get their new phone

[WRESTLINGFAN]

They'll harm each other for the new Nike's

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Here's your so called clean CR.


Congrats, more money going to those red teabagger states

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/16/mitch-mcconnell-budget-deal_n_4111387.html

[Midkiff]

Here's your so called clean CR.


Congrats, more money going to those red teabagger states

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/16/mitch-mcconnell-budget-deal_n_4111387.html

Oh, then clearly your purported liberal agenda was a success.

[pennington]

Booker is your new Senator from NJ

At least he's an improvement over Frank Lautenberg (and the other Democrats that ran in the primary).

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I know it's about 175K but why is Lautenbergs widow receiving that money?
He was worth over 50 million

Just more evidence why elected public servants shouldn't get all these perks and congress shouldn't be a career.

[pennington]

Just more evidence why elected public servants shouldn't get all these perks and congress shouldn't be a career.

Term limits (and that should include judges and appointed officials).

[SonOfSmeagol]

which is a longstanding issue, no one has been able to figure out a system that scales efficiently from upfront, release day demand to normal levels of demand -- online gaming will likely forever be plagued by it

moving beyond politics here - there are numerous secure cloud providers in the business today that do just that. The customer focuses on the functionality, and they handle the capacity, performance, and all the other nuts and bolts. Not that there aren't challenges, but that model is here to stay.

[Syd]

moving beyond politics here - there are numerous secure cloud providers in the business today that do just that. The customer focuses on the functionality, and they handle the capacity, performance, and all the other nuts and bolts. Not that there aren't challenges, but that model is here to stay.

absolutely, but if it worked then Rockstar wouldn't have the shitfit that happened because of GTA.

Biggest problem with the website rollout was the national site, for example, was built for an absurdly few number of people because it was only meant to service territories and random stuff like that -- states took care of the rest.

Clusterfuck, but every single rollout of that size will be one.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

If the websites remain defective which looks like the case, people can't enroll therefore the mandate goal of 7 million won't happen. Obamacare is banking on the individual mandate.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Can we kill the embargo ??



http://www.caribjournal.com/2013/10/17/without-embargo-cuba-says-it-could-sell-400m-in-cigars-to-us-each-year/

[Syd]

If the websites remain defective which looks like the case, people can't enroll therefore the mandate goal of 7 million won't happen. Obamacare is banking on the individual mandate.

the website isn't defective, the website is working exactly how it was intended, 50k concurrent users at a time (which is what it should receive normally when it's not being hammered by a bunch of people)

however my friend was able to secure insurance for himself as a self-employed and saved $250/mo while getting a much, much better plan

so there's that

[Dude!]

however my friend was able to secure insurance for himself as a self-employed and saved $250/mo while getting a much, much better plan

so there's that

yippee!
one person's signed up in Delaware
and now one in Syd's state too

the program and website
are freakin' AWESOME!

(but then again, maybe Syd is
in Delaware, and it is the same person)

[Syd]

delaware is home to many corporations which are people too

[WRESTLINGFAN]

the website isn't defective, the website is working exactly how it was intended, 50k concurrent users at a time (which is what it should receive normally when it's not being hammered by a bunch of people)

however my friend was able to secure insurance for himself as a self-employed and saved $250/mo while getting a much, much better plan

so there's that

When they are using coding that's way out of date sure sounds defective to me

This shows once again how terribly inefficient growth of government is.

[foodcourtdruide]

When they are using coding that's way out of date sure sounds defective to me

This shows once again how terribly inefficient growth of government is.

What is coding that's way out of date?

[Dude!]

What is coding that's way out of date?

i'm pretty sure that the programming
language they used was
"Logo"

[WRESTLINGFAN]

10 Year old programming sounds dated to me

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/10/17/health-exchange-week-three-start-over/2995989/

[foodcourtdruide]

10 Year old programming sounds dated to me

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/10/17/health-exchange-week-three-start-over/2995989/

Great, why don't you tell us a little about what it means when you have to delete your cache to resolve errors, and why you shouldn't architect a website that way, and how you could avoid it?

Or do you not really understand why you have the opinion you have, and just echo anything you hear that supports your anti-obama agenda?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Great, why don't you tell us a little about what it means when you have to delete your cache to resolve errors, and why you shouldn't architect a website that way, and how you could avoid it?

Or do you not really understand why you have the opinion you have, and just echo anything you hear that supports your anti-obama agenda?

I don't claim to be a techie. experts in the IT field who know how websites are built are saying that the site is flawed. Also the government paid almost 400 million for a site that has design flaws and could take months to fix.



Plus the article isn't from Breitbart , The 400 million cost is from HuffPo.

It's not just saying Obamacare sucks, its reading and analyzing the poor rollout, the lack of efficient marketing and advertising and a poorly run website in which there was over 3 years to implement such a system.


It once proves again that this federal government in concert with its selection of favorites from the private sector is inept and incompetent. One commenter said it best saying that this could be Obamas big dig.

You should want this to fail so that President Hillary Clinton will champion for single payer in 2017

[foodcourtdruide]

I don't claim to be a techie. experts in the IT field who know how websites are built are saying that the site is flawed. Also the government paid almost 400 million for a site that has design flaws and could take months to fix.


You found several "experts in the IT field who know websites" that offered their opinions. It's really easy to make general comments like "this site pre-dates web 2.0" because the site is having scalability issues. Many websites that are even using bleeding-edge technology have similar scalability issues.

It once proves again that this federal government in concert with its selection of favorites from the private sector is inept and incompetent. One commenter said it best saying that this could be Obamas big dig.

Do you know how often private sector websites run into issues like this?! This is one of the most uninformed comments I've ever heard you say.

Take any website that requires constant form submissions and database interaction (think facebook, instead of cnn) and google "<website> scalability issues". They take years to resolve, and they also have the advantage of having had a gradual climb of users. Launching a website that will have even 10,000 people making complex calls to the database on its first day is DAUNTING. They also wouldn't be under nearly as much scrutiny.

You keep throwing this $400 million number out there, but what does it really mean? Did they have $400 million pre-launch? Or was that for the life of the site? Was it for infrastructure also? Do you have any more info on that number?

[foodcourtdruide]

WF, here's a better article for you that's a little more "inside baseball" and doesn't have "website experts" making vague recommendations.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/10/18/why-healthcare-gov-the-obamacare-website-doesn-t-work.html

[foodcourtdruide]

Sorry for the multiple posts...

But I wish that instead of people like WF highlighting this for their anti-obamacare agenda, it alerted them to the problems government will have with technology in the future if rules don't change. This will effect both parties, for example..

I remember after the shooting at Sandy Hook one of the recommendations of the NRA was to have some massive registry online of mentally ill people that could be easily referenced. I remember thinking how hilariously unrealistic and expensive this would have been. But, quite frankly this type of information being easily accessible to different agencies would be super useful, but it would have to be an amazingly ambitious project. We should be thinking about how we could successfully undertake these projects instead of simply using failures to throw political hand-grenades at each other.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You found several "experts in the IT field who know websites" that offered their opinions. It's really easy to make general comments like "this site pre-dates web 2.0" because the site is having scalability issues. Many websites that are even using bleeding-edge technology have similar scalability issues.



Do you know how often private sector websites run into issues like this?! This is one of the most uninformed comments I've ever heard you say.

Take any website that requires constant form submissions and database interaction (think facebook, instead of cnn) and google "<website> scalability issues". They take years to resolve, and they also have the advantage of having had a gradual climb of users. Launching a website that will have even 10,000 people making complex calls to the database on its first day is DAUNTING. They also wouldn't be under nearly as much scrutiny.

You keep throwing this $400 million number out there, but what does it really mean? Did they have $400 million pre-launch? Or was that for the life of the site? Was it for infrastructure also? Do you have any more info on that number?

Of course private sector websites have their glitches and problems but they usually get them up and running in a small amount of time. Also those private sector sites for the most part were not built with taxpayer money.

Obama ran 2 campaigns to crush Romney and McCain using state of the art technology, bringing on board psychologists, and behavioral economists while the republicans used figuratively a hamster running in a wheel but the rollout of it has been subpar. Isn't there supposed to be due diligence to perform functions like beta testing or do a soft rollout before BAU? All the systems upgrades/conversions for trading systems as well as middle and back office portfolio accounting systems I was involved with had all these QA and UAT functions. I know Obamacare is a bigger scale and scope but I would say that would be a similar process.

The 400 million didn't elaborate on the breakdown. I really don't know but my guess would be for the whole project including costs like contracts, infrastructure, software etc.

The cost should be an issue , because if it's an administration saying that the Iraq war would pay for itself or the bloat in the DoD for all these weapons systems we really don't need it just adds up to the fraud and waste constantly being produced in DC.

[foodcourtdruide]

Of course private sector websites have their glitches and problems but they usually get them up and running in a small amount of time. Also those private sector sites for the most part were not built with taxpayer money.

Obama ran 2 campaigns to crush Romney and McCain using state of the art technology, bringing on board psychologists, and behavioral economists while the republicans used figuratively a hamster running in a wheel but the rollout of it has been subpar. Isn't there supposed to be due diligence to perform functions like beta testing or do a soft rollout before BAU? All the systems upgrades/conversions for trading systems as well as middle and back office portfolio accounting systems I was involved with had all these QA and UAT functions. I know Obamacare is a bigger scale and scope but I would say that would be a similar process.

The 400 million didn't elaborate on the breakdown. I really don't know but my guess would be for the whole project including costs like contracts, infrastructure, software etc.

The cost should be an issue , because if it's an administration saying that the Iraq war would pay for itself or the bloat in the DoD for all these weapons systems we really don't need it just adds up to the fraud and waste constantly being produced in DC.

Did you read the article from TDB? It explains why there's a big difference between Obama's campaign websites and this.

It goes way beyond scope and size.

EDIT: Also, "but I would say that would be a similar process" is incorrect. That's like saying building a tree house in your back yard would follow the same process as building the Brooklyn Bridge. Totally different things.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Sorry for the multiple posts...

But I wish that instead of people like WF highlighting this for their anti-obamacare agenda, it alerted them to the problems government will have with technology in the future if rules don't change. This will effect both parties, for example..

I remember after the shooting at Sandy Hook one of the recommendations of the NRA was to have some massive registry online of mentally ill people that could be easily referenced. I remember thinking how hilariously unrealistic and expensive this would have been. But, quite frankly this type of information being easily accessible to different agencies would be super useful, but it would have to be an amazingly ambitious project. We should be thinking about how we could successfully undertake these projects instead of simply using failures to throw political hand-grenades at each other.

That daily beast article makes my point stronger. Especially with the other links in there especially about beta testing QA etc. It also shows how government writes these complex 1000 page bills, scares everyone to thinking that there will be swarms of locusts if it isn't passed then scrambles to meet a deadline. Where was the oversight by congress or HHS since a private firm won a gov't contract?

Also it said that time wasn't on their side. Would the world end if there was at least a 1 year delay for the mandate?

If I was saying Obamacare is socialized medicine and other buzzwords, then that would be political bombthrowing.

I also put blame on the GOP in this. So they waste taxpayer money trying to repeal more than 40 times but what was their alternative? This is why they continue to lose arguments they can easily win. They lack the basic communication and to elaborate their reasoning.

They should have just sat back and let the problem of the rollout be the news of the day for the past 2 weeks. They are a bunch of incompetent twits as well. Instead they let a weakened president from the Syria issue steamroll them again.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Did you read the article from TDB? It explains why there's a big difference between Obama's campaign websites and this.

It goes way beyond scope and size.

EDIT: Also, "but I would say that would be a similar process" is incorrect. That's like saying building a tree house in your back yard would follow the same process as building the Brooklyn Bridge. Totally different things.

Sorry for my multiple posts. I think you were posting that article when I was replying to an earlier comment.

[foodcourtdruide]

That daily beast article makes my point stronger. Especially with the other links in there especially about beta testing QA etc. It also shows how government writes these complex 1000 page bills, scares everyone to thinking that there will be swarms of locusts if it isn't passed then scrambles to meet a deadline. Where was the oversight by congress or HHS since a private firm won a gov't contract?

Also it said that time wasn't on their side. Would the world end if there was at least a 1 year delay for the mandate?

If I was saying Obamacare is socialized medicine and other buzzwords, then that would be political bombthrowing.

I also put blame on the GOP in this. So they waste taxpayer money trying to repeal more than 40 times but what was their alternative? This is why they continue to lose arguments they can easily win. They lack the basic communication and to elaborate their reasoning.

They should have just sat back and let the problem of the rollout be the news of the day for the past 2 weeks. They are a bunch of incompetent twits as well. Instead they let a weakened president from the Syria issue steamroll them again.

I don't think an additional year delay would have helped, the article is detailing how the deck is stacked against projects like this. The failure of the website is being used everywhere to attack obamacare, instead of being used to highlight a problem that will continuously prevent government programs help citizens using technology.

McCain had the brilliant idea to "send in smart people" to fix everything. Attacking the people who created the site, instead of perhaps taking a step back and looking at why the site was built this way in the first place. What is the solution in the future? Send everything to the for-profit sector? Isn't that a primary reason we're in such a terrible place with our health insurance in this country to begin with?

I just can't help but feel that with the limited resources of our government, most of the time is spent trying to dethrone each other and degrade each other instead of actually fixing problems. Imagine if for the past 3 months, instead of almost exclusively focusing on Obamacare, a bill that was already passed, our government was hosting a summit of tech leaders to re-think how our government interacts with technology?

[Dude!]

Launching a website that will have even 10,000 people making complex calls to the database on its first day is DAUNTING. They also wouldn't be under nearly as much scrutiny.

You keep throwing this $400 million number out there, but what does it really mean? Did they have $400 million pre-launch? Or was that for the life of the site? Was it for infrastructure also? Do you have any more info on that number?

good Lord...anyone with half a brain
in business knows that there are
different ways to "roll out" a product

when your supply is limited,
as was acess to the website,
you roll it out gradually
and use each rollout to improve

from October 1-8, register if
your zip code begins with a 0

from October 8-15, register if
your zip code begins with a 1

etc

like these idiots didn't know
there would be millions of people
trying to get on the same site at the same time

just fucking idiotic

[foodcourtdruide]

good Lord...anyone with half a brain
in business knows that there are
different ways to "roll out" a product

when your supply is limited,
as was acess to the website,
you roll it out gradually
and use each rollout to improve

from October 1-8, register if
your zip code begins with a 0

from October 8-15, register if
your zip code begins with a 1

etc

like these idiots didn't know
there would be millions of people
trying to get on the same site at the same time

just fucking idiotic

I'd be pretty surprised if the tech team wouldn't have been thrilled to limit initial usage. I wonder what the business reasons were for not doing so. I don't just automatically assume I'm smarter than everyone in the world. I'd assume they had a valid concern.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

What if they don't reach their goal of 7 million by March?

I didn't hear any questions about that

[Syd]

Of course private sector websites have their glitches and problems but they usually get them up and running in a small amount of time. Also those private sector sites for the most part were not built with taxpayer money.

World of Warcraft crashed and burned for something like a month and a half, Grand Theft Auto 5 is still having issues and SimCity Online was an utter clusterfuck. Any massive rollout for a website has issues because websites are built for a certain number of concurrent users. Spending more than what you need for capacity is a waste. Everyone just accepts that there will be an initial rush that the server cannot handle.

Obama ran 2 campaigns to crush Romney and McCain using state of the art technology, bringing on board psychologists, and behavioral economists while the republicans used figuratively a hamster running in a wheel but the rollout of it has been subpar.

The Romney system failed the same way the PPACA system failed. You can't beta test reality. The second the Romney system lit up all the connections threw their hosting for a loop and they shut it down assuming it was an attack.

What if they don't reach their goal of 7 million by March?

I didn't hear any questions about that

I still haven't heard anyone ask why Medicare Part D had a worse rollout than PPACA. Also, no one has asked why the party of businessmen Randian superheroes had a part written in a law saying that no negotiations over price could occur. It's almost like they're lying to people like WF about what the Republican party wants with the size of the federal government!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

World of Warcraft crashed and burned for something like a month and a half, Grand Theft Auto 5 is still having issues and SimCity Online was an utter clusterfuck. Any massive rollout for a website has issues because websites are built for a certain number of concurrent users. Spending more than what you need for capacity is a waste. Everyone just accepts that there will be an initial rush that the server cannot handle.



The Romney system failed the same way the PPACA system failed. You can't beta test reality. The second the Romney system lit up all the connections threw their hosting for a loop and they shut it down assuming it was an attack.



I still haven't heard anyone ask why Medicare Part D had a worse rollout than PPACA. Also, no one has asked why the party of businessmen Randian superheroes had a part written in a law saying that no negotiations over price could occur. It's almost like they're lying to people like WF about what the Republican party wants with the size of the federal government!

You keep mentioning online gaming, but I don't think people would continue to play them if they keep crashing.

So the government didn't take lessons learned from the rollout of Romneycare? Obamacare along with the Bin Laden Raid is Obamas legacy. If it fails it's a tainted one. You would think that something he campaigned for and got passed, upheld by SCOTUS and verified by a reelection he would want to be rolled out with little problems.
Im not joining the bandwagon and calling for Sebellius' firing, However what about other high level bureaucrats in HHS? Where was the oversight? It looks like they just handed a bunch of money to that IT firm and said here run with it.

Medicare part D. LOL. What makes you think that I would be in favor for that? It was another act of crony capitalism and big government rolled out with support from a big government GOP president and majority gop congress.

The GOP is the party of big business entrenched with the feds Just like the Dems.

Barack is going to give another speech today, This time on the failure of the rollout. We will hear the same rhetoric as usual. "We'll get to the bottom of this etc etc.

[foodcourtdruide]

You keep mentioning online gaming, but I don't think people would continue to play them if they keep crashing.

So the government didn't take lessons learned from the rollout of Romneycare? Obamacare along with the Bin Laden Raid is Obamas legacy.

In 100 years no one will remember Obamacare. Obama's legacy will be that he was the first black president, period.


If it fails it's a tainted one. You would think that something he campaigned for and got passed, upheld by SCOTUS and verified by a reelection he would want to be rolled out with little problems.
Im not joining the bandwagon and calling for Sebellius' firing, However what about other high level bureaucrats in HHS? Where was the oversight? It looks like they just handed a bunch of money to that IT firm and said here run with it.

Medicare part D. LOL. What makes you think that I would be in favor for that? It was another act of crony capitalism and big government rolled out with support from a big government GOP president and majority gop congress.

The GOP is the party of big business entrenched with the feds Just like the Dems.

Barack is going to give another speech today, This time on the failure of the rollout. We will hear the same rhetoric as usual. "We'll get to the bottom of this etc etc.

The online gaming points by Syd are valid. We're both trying to outline to you that the nature of large online systems is simply buggy, whether from the private or public sector. I think I have a good analogy.

If there was a massive public works project, and a worker was injured in a workplace accident, I don't think it would be fair (unless there was egregious negligence) to make the injury simply a product of the project. People get hurt doing construction, suddenly stating that we must eliminate or rethink the project because of an injury would be over-reactionary. I think the same applies here.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

In 100 years no one will remember Obamacare. Obama's legacy will be that he was the first black president, period.



The online gaming points by Syd are valid. We're both trying to outline to you that the nature of large online systems is simply buggy, whether from the private or public sector. I think I have a good analogy.

If there was a massive public works project, and a worker was injured in a workplace accident, I don't think it would be fair (unless there was egregious negligence) to make the injury simply a product of the project. People get hurt doing construction, suddenly stating that we must eliminate or rethink the project because of an injury would be over-reactionary. I think the same applies here.

75 Years have passed since the New deal and no one forgets about that. Social Security was one of FDR's legacies.

In regards to Obamacare, there were warning signs on how complex and damaging such a program could be

It was also reported that the Canadian gov't fired that IT firm which built the website because of their shortcomings in regards to the Canadian system.

Why didn't they go to Silicon valley? Im sure it was the same way of business is done in DC. Some lobbyist had a connection and someone was owed a favor.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Also why is Barack waiting until now to address these issues? Where is Sebellius? Going on The Daily Show doesn't cut it

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I hope that poor woman is ok. She probably fainted from all the BS Barack was squawking out.

Again with the human props.

[Dude!]

I hope that poor woman is ok. She probably fainted from all the BS Barack was squawking out.

Again with the human props.

she looked like a
real scraggly-haired
crackhead

[WRESTLINGFAN]

All those props were the only people who were successful in navigating thru the website

[foodcourtdruide]

WF, here's some info on something we were discussing. I thought the $600m number seemed way inflated.

http://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/1owop4/eli5_how_did_healthcaregov_cost_634000000_that/

[WRESTLINGFAN]

WF, here's some info on something we were discussing. I thought the $600m number seemed way inflated.

http://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/1owop4/eli5_how_did_healthcaregov_cost_634000000_that/



I posted it was around 400 million. I did see reports before that as high as over 600 but I wanted to get it from a mainstream site like HuffPo

In any case thanks for posting that reddit site with the breakdowns. In regards to the actual site msnbc reported today that it was 292 million.
I just wish there was some uniformity on how these numbers are reported.

[jennysmurf]

Wow, WF and foodcourtdruide having a rational political discussion with no name-calling. I didn't know that was even a possible thing in this forum. Good show, fellas!

[Dude!]

Wow, WF and foodcourtdruide having a rational political discussion with no name-calling. I didn't know that was even a possible thing in this forum. Good show, fellas!

spoon is really the only name-caller...
he has a corrosive effect
on this board and on life itself

[foodcourtdruide]

Wow, WF and foodcourtdruide having a rational political discussion with no name-calling. I didn't know that was even a possible thing in this forum. Good show, fellas!



I go through these weird cycles between really liking WF and thinking he's a good guy with the best intentions and thinking he's an evil paid political informant for the Koch brothers.

[foodcourtdruide]

I posted it was around 400 million. I did see reports before that as high as over 600 but I wanted to get it from a mainstream site like HuffPo

In any case thanks for posting that reddit site with the breakdowns. In regards to the actual site msnbc reported today that it was 292 million.
I just wish there was some uniformity on how these numbers are reported.


I don't blame you for saying $600m, I'm seeing that number everywhere. Given how gigantic the system is the $100m+ number seems more likely. It's so hard to say, it's hard to even find out what technology they even used or how long it took. 18 months to build a system with this many integrations? That seems incredibly ambitious.

[foodcourtdruide]

I don't blame you for saying $600m, I'm seeing that number everywhere. Given how gigantic the system is the $100m+ number seems more likely. It's so hard to say, it's hard to even find out what technology they even used or how long it took. 18 months to build a system with this many integrations? That seems incredibly ambitious.


The more I read the reddit, the more I understand the cost. My former employer sent me to India and my biggest take away was how many gigantic buildings there were with American company logos at the top. The cost is not important to me. I just kind of feel "that shit must be expensive", what is of concern to me is if they rushed it and why they did. You wouldn't cut corners and rush a bridge, why this?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I go through these weird cycles between really liking WF and thinking he's a good guy with the best intentions and thinking he's an evil paid political informant for the Koch brothers.

LOL If I am doing their bidding here, they owe me a ton in royalties.


In all seriousness though. I wonder what the total cost will be. I read in the NY times that they need to rewrite over 5 million lines of coding among other fixes needed.

[pennington]

I go through these weird cycles between really liking WF and thinking he's a good guy with the best intentions and thinking he's an evil paid political informant for the Koch brothers.

Funny, I've always considered him an agent of Soros who gets people in a public forum to confirm their love of the President and the Democrats.

[sailor]

Funny, I've always considered him an agent of Soros who gets people in a public forum to confirm their love of the President and the Democrats.

That's dude!

[Syd]

You wouldn't cut corners and rush a bridge, why this?

the race to the bottom hasn't passed up civil engineering, the bridges we are building and designing now will be experiencing catastrophic failures in no time

In other related news with the looming catfood supercommittee, Ryan Cooper has a pretty good idea he threw out there to exploit the loophole in the Republican party mantra pretty hard and force them to give up many of the Democratic demands:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2013/10/18/heres-a-grand-bargain-for-ya-tax-cuts-for-1-trillion-in-infrastructure-spending/

[SonOfSmeagol]

White House knew millions could not keep plans under Obamacare (http://www.cnbc.com/id/101150855)
President Obama repeatedly assured Americans that after the Affordable Care Act became law, people who liked their health insurance would be able to keep it.
But millions of Americans are getting or are about to get cancellation letters for their health insurance under Obamacare, say experts, and the Obama administration has known that for at least three years.
http://gifs.gifmania.hk/Animated-Gifs-Walt-Disney/Animations-Disney-Movies/Images-Pinocchio/Pinocchio/pinocchio-nose.gif

[Dude!]

White House knew millions could not keep plans under Obamacare (http://www.cnbc.com/id/101150855)

this president and administration
are the most dishonest in history
lying about EVERYTHING...

they put LBJ and Nixon to shame

[Syd]

White House knew millions could not keep plans under Obamacare (http://www.cnbc.com/id/101150855)

http://gifs.gifmania.hk/Animated-Gifs-Walt-Disney/Animations-Disney-Movies/Images-Pinocchio/Pinocchio/pinocchio-nose.gif

Well, yeah, a lot of those plans were straight out of that one Grisham novel. They had lifetime limits and only covered a minimal amount. That's why they're getting shitcanned -- they're not useful health insurance.

[SonOfSmeagol]

Well, yeah, a lot of those plans were straight out of that one Grisham novel. They had lifetime limits and only covered a minimal amount. That's why they're getting shitcanned -- they're not useful health insurance.
who are you to say? it might've been useful to those who had it
“If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor, period. If you like your health care plan, you’ll be able to keep your health care plan, period. No one will take it away, no matter what.”

[Syd]

who are you to say? it might've been useful to those who had it

a health plan that leaves you bankrupt after a health emergency isn't useful

[SonOfSmeagol]

a health plan that leaves you bankrupt after a health emergency isn't useful
the discussion has moved well beyond such platitudes and into the real world affecting real people. More useless words from you and the other obama sycophants just aren't cutting it anymore.

[Syd]

i'm against PPACA on a political level but removing the lifetime/annual caps for payouts was a big reason why those worthless plans went away

all plans after 2014 have I think a cap of number of visits, but no set monetary cap for those visits

drastic increase in the availability of useful healthcare along with countering one of the larger drivers of bankruptcy

so again, it's a bunch of moops who bought a big pile of shit and thought according to the low pricetag it must be shinola

[SonOfSmeagol]

so again, it's a bunch of moops who bought a big pile of shit and thought according to the low pricetag it must be shinola
on top of all their other other troubles they invaded Spain in the 1500s?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Of all the days to go to Boston that dumb clod picks the day of a WS game. After his speech he's off to fund raise.
That'll be great for traffic

[Syd]

on top of all their other other troubles they invaded Spain in the 1500s?

good source of alternate history right there (iberian/spanish peninsula)

[spoon]

Of all the days to go to Boston that dumb clod picks the day of a WS game. After his speech he's off to fund raise.
That'll be great for traffic

:wallbash:

[A.J.]

so again, it's a bunch of moops who bought a big pile of shit and thought according to the low pricetag it must be shinola

on top of all their other other troubles they invaded Spain in the 1500s?

Way to go Bubbleboy.

[SonOfSmeagol]

ironically, if obama had found some way to accept the GOP offer 1 month ago to delay portions of obamacare a lot of pain could've been avoided

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Democratic Rep. Frank Pallone of NJ actually said that Obamacare is capitalism.

He's another one who looks like he's tipping the elbow all the time

[A.J.]

Democratic Rep. Frank Pallone of NJ actually said that Obamacare is capitalism.

He's another one who looks like he's tipping the elbow all the time

I've always thought Pallone had a secret.

[spoon]

ironically, if obama had found some way to accept the GOP offer 1 month ago to delay portions of obamacare a lot of pain could've been avoided



Right, avoided! Not a fucking chance with this congress, as it would have been pushed further or something else.

[SonOfSmeagol]

Right, avoided! Not a fucking chance with this congress, as it would have been pushed further or something else.
wrong. The house PASSED several bills that were rejected by obama and senate prior to and during the shutdown.

Had obama accepted it, he definitely would've got the political heat from the left. But sadly he didn't, and now he and his minions have stepped on their collective dicks and the executive branch is embroiled in a hot shitstorm magnitudes larger, entirely of their own making.

hence, the irony

[spoon]

nope

if he agreed to those they would have pushed further and found something else to cry out about

if there is one thing the dems have learned, give an inch, they demand a foot…give nothing, they demand an inch.

there's a reason compromise is done with this GOP…time for the tea party to get the boot and the GOP take their platform back versus the bullshit over the last few years

[Dude!]

Democratic Rep. Frank Pallone of NJ actually said that Obamacare is capitalism.

He's another one who looks like he's tipping the elbow all the time

listen to that guy speak--
he is such a flamer...
does he think he's fooling anyone
with that lilting lisp?

[SonOfSmeagol]

nope
if he agreed to those they would have pushed further and found something else to cry out about
if there is one thing the dems have learned, give an inch, they demand a foot…give nothing, they demand an inch.
there's a reason compromise is done with this GOP…time for the tea party to get the boot and the GOP take their platform back versus the bullshit over the last few years
no. what part of "PASSED" do you not understand?

as for the rest, I don't agree with any one party or any one wing on many things, but there's something refreshing about seeing the two-party moops shaken up a bit.

[spoon]

no shit

how about by Obama?

oh yah, RIGHT…so it wasn't passed in the end and I wonder why?

no reason to give into stupid demands on something that DID pass already by BOTH…you know, the ACA..nah, let's vote to repeal it for the umpteenth time instead and hammer away at it. hell, let's get our corporate tie ins to pay for ads against it too!

and yes, idiots on a whole knew level like the tea party would be refreshing to you

no surprise there

refreshing in the same way menopause is to women

[SonOfSmeagol]

no shit

how about by Obama?

oh yah, RIGHT…so it wasn't passed in the end and I wonder why?

no reason to give into stupid demands on something that DID pass already by BOTH…you know, the ACA..nah, let's vote to repeal it for the umpteenth time instead and hammer away at it. hell, let's get our corporate tie ins to pay for ads against it too!

and yes, idiots on a whole knew level like the tea party would be refreshing to you

no surprise there

refreshing in the same way menopause is to women
reading is fundamental. try it sometime.
you're spinning like an angry, boring top.

no surprise there

[spoon]

sure thing sos

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/books/reading-rainbow1.jpg

and you may be the FIRST to ever call the tea party "refreshing" in any form

wow


is Palin "enlightening" to you as well?

:lol:

[SonOfSmeagol]

sure thing sos

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/books/reading-rainbow1.jpg

and you may be the FIRST to ever call the tea party "refreshing" in any form

wow


is Palin "enlightening" to you as well?

:lol:
sure thing, hamster, keep trying
as for the rest, I don't agree with any one party or any one wing on many things, but there's something refreshing about seeing the two-party moops shaken up a bit.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The GOP will probably swing and miss at another fastball right down the middle.

The administration is looking weak after the Obamacare rollout. There is talk about filibustering a federal judge. If they block it the shift will go back to them being obstructionists and turn the pendulum towards Obamas favor

In regards to Yellins nomination to head the Fed Reserve. They should cut a deal. Vote her thru if the Senate agrees to audit the fed. An audit would pass the house.

[spoon]

they are NOT going to vote to audit the fed

and what a waste…of course it would pass the house


let them block the fed judge or yellin…i hope they are so idiotic

[WRESTLINGFAN]

US Senate

Where bills go to die.

Of course a resolution that both the left and right agree on would be tabled by the dim bulb

[spoon]

I see we have a new fav nick huh?!

hooray beer!

[SonOfSmeagol]

US Senate

Where bills go to die.

Of course a resolution that both the left and right agree on would be tabled by the dim bulb
already did, but I'm not sure which bulb had the stick afterward
In a rare moment of bipartisanship, the House overwhelmingly passed a bill by Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) to audit the Federal Reserve (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/25/federal-reserve-audit-bill_n_1702879.html)

[Syd]

"The Fed creates trillions of dollars out of nothing and gives it to banks.

Welcome to macroeconomics 101, where steady, controlled inflation is universally seen as a good thing. Only the fucking crazy goldbugs who think that wages don't decrease with deflation have a hardon for raging against the inflation machine.

[Dude!]

The GOP will probably swing and miss at another fastball right down the middle.

The administration is looking weak after the Obamacare rollout. There is talk about filibustering a federal judge. If they block it the shift will go back to them being obstructionists and turn the pendulum towards Obamas favor

people don't give a fuck
about federal judgeships,
so block away

[spoon]

Great reasoning! Now who could argue with THAT!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I know there's no thread for off year elections but Christie and DiBlasio win big and McAuliffe wins by a few points.

[A.J.]

Great reasoning! Now who could argue with THAT!

http://www.morethings.com/fan/blazing_saddles/blazing-saddles-300.jpg

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Leave it to the pathetic GOP to shift the tide back to the Dems


Lindsey Graham wants to introduce a bill banning most abortions past 20 weeks.

[Syd]

looks like the least worst candidate in Virginia won in the battle of the "holy shit, they're really trying to start a political fight with these two guys?"

also lol that Young lost, the chosen boy and tea party darling gets shut down

VA AG race will be interesting because it's been the government position everyone from Liberty aspires to so that they can use the government to enforce Christian dogma. I hope those shitheads get sent packing back to suck anonymous gloryhole dicks in Lynchburg

[spoon]

Wf, you're a bigger fool than i thought if you actually thought the tide was ever with this congress in years.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I think you're mistaking Tide vs Popularity

We all know congress is as popular as head lice however the shutdown focus is gone and all the heat is now on the pathetic rollout of Obamacare

[A.J.]

I have to deal with that self-serving, arrogant, piece of shit Terry McAuliffe as my Governor for the next 4 years. Now we get to turn into Maryland.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

He's going to turn VA into a bundling hub for Hillary

[SonOfSmeagol]

I think you're mistaking Tide vs Popularity

We all know congress is as popular as head lice however the shutdown focus is gone and all the heat is now on the pathetic rollout of Obamacare
the rollout was doomed from the start when 3 1/2 years ago obama ignored the advice of his top health care guru and his economic team and instead chose to "govern by politics"

HealthCare.gov: How political fear was pitted against technical needs (http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/challenges-have-dogged-obamas-health-plan-since-2010/2013/11/02/453fba42-426b-11e3-a624-41d661b0bb78_story.html)

They were running the biggest start-up in the world, and they didn’t have anyone who had run a start-up, or even run a business

memo sent by David Cutler to Larry Summers relaying his concerns about the health reform legislation. (http://www.scribd.com/doc/181039999/Memo-from-David-Cutler-on-health-reform-implementation)

I do not believe the relevant members of the Administration understand the President’s vision or have the capability to carry it out.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

the rollout was doomed from the start when 3 1/2 years ago obama ignored the advice of his top health care guru and his economic team and instead chose to "govern by politics"

HealthCare.gov: How political fear was pitted against technical needs (http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/challenges-have-dogged-obamas-health-plan-since-2010/2013/11/02/453fba42-426b-11e3-a624-41d661b0bb78_story.html)



memo sent by David Cutler to Larry Summers relaying his concerns about the health reform legislation. (http://www.scribd.com/doc/181039999/Memo-from-David-Cutler-on-health-reform-implementation)

We will probably hear excuses like there wasn't enough funding.


Barack was trying to spin his way out of the you can keep your plan. He's trying to do the definition of is is.

[spoon]

I think you're mistaking Tide vs Popularity

We all know congress is as popular as head lice however the shutdown focus is gone and all the heat is now on the pathetic rollout of Obamacare

yet here we are with the same terrible level of satisfaction

nothing changed with their "tide"

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Someone in the govt got their palms greased.
After initially rejecting the AA and USAir merger, the Feds gave it the green light yesterday

Bad move. I was against this from the beginning

[spoon]

HATE these mergers

[SonOfSmeagol]

US air travel is a very good deal. There are very few routes with no competition. The merged AA has to give up some very lucrative landing spots as part of this deal. We also need large carriers to support the intl market. All airlines, btw, have razor thin profit margins.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Sebellius just reported just under 27,000 completed enrollment so far under Obamacare. Estimates were about 50K.

She didn't disclose how many of those 27K purchased .

[A.J.]

She's doing a heckuva job.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Some red state Dems are concerned and pleading with the WH to delay the mandate further

Of course their main reason is because they don't want to lose their cushy jobs next year if this continues to be an albatross

[WRESTLINGFAN]

To clarify that was for the website. Further numbers show that in total 106,000 signed up i.e. via phone or in person but they didn't disclose overall purchases.

The goal was 500K by this time

[SonOfSmeagol]

Clinton had to pipe in saying that obama "should honor the commitment". Of course, the only reason he did so was to proxy for hillary and give her cover.

Even though clinton essentially called obama out for the fucking liar that he is, ex-presidents should keep their mouths shut when it comes to criticizing sitting presidents on anything major such as this imo. what good comes from it?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

McCain revealed that people want him to run for president again

I'm sure they are all Hillary supporters. I know its a longshot but if he decides to run and get the nomination he would be a 21st century Adlai Stevenson

[pennington]

This is amusing:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/SwwXzq1GmjQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[A.J.]

McCain revealed that people want him to run for president again

I'm sure they are all Hillary supporters. I know its a longshot but if he decides to run and get the nomination he would be a 21st century Adlai Stevenson

McCain will be 80 in 2016. Hillary will be 70. They should remember that they're running for President, not Pope.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Oh boy another speech by Barack on Obamacare.


Screw congress. The Emperor is unilaterally changing the law.

[A.J.]

If Obama had any brains, he would have blamed all of the fuckups with the Obamacare rollout on the government shutdown back in October. I'll bet more than a few people would believe that.

[Dude!]

If Obama had any brains, he would have blamed all of the fuckups with the Obamacare rollout on the government shutdown back in October. I'll bet more than a few people would believe that.

when you suddenly have
a massive credibilty gap,
it makes the blame game
much, much harder

his idiot "solution" today won't fly;
even Howard Dean is saying it's not legal

it's all coming apart at the seams...

[WRESTLINGFAN]

He stuck his foot in his mouth again


The insurance companies will not allow this to happen. It's going to cost them more money because of the presidents major fuckup. Theyre not going to want to write these new policies for only a year

Who the fuck believes him anymore?

[A.J.]

According to the Constitution, a President has to enforce a law that has been passed. He cannot "delay" it.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

According to the Constitution, a President has to enforce a law that has been passed. He cannot "delay" it.


I guess our constitutional scholar president has magical powers and all that authority is written in invisible ink where article II is.


He unilaterally declares amnesty, he strikes Libya without a declaration of war or congressional permission, rewrites laws, gives delays, exemptions and carve outs to his donors, fundraisers, and he violates federal bankruptcy laws among other abuses of power

[A.J.]

Then shame on the Congress and Supreme Court for not enforcing our system of checks an balances.

[spoon]

no

[SonOfSmeagol]

I guess our constitutional scholar president has magical powers and all that authority is written in invisible ink where article II is.
He unilaterally declares amnesty, he strikes Libya without a declaration of war or congressional permission, rewrites laws, gives delays, exemptions and carve outs to his donors, fundraisers, and he violates federal bankruptcy laws among other abuses of power
Then shame on the Congress and Supreme Court for not enforcing our system of checks an balances.
true - now watch as the Senate BALKS at putting obama's own words yesterday into LAW and even if it makes it thru senate watch the fucking king VETO it. so sad

[WRESTLINGFAN]

After his long drawn out press conference Obama flew out of DC to do what he does best. Fund raise

[Syd]

He stuck his foot in his mouth again


The insurance companies will not allow this to happen. It's going to cost them more money because of the presidents major fuckup. Theyre not going to want to write these new policies for only a year

Who the fuck believes him anymore?

Well they're the ones who wrote the law, so I am pretty sure they'll be fine with writing new policies for only a year. You're acting like anyone involved with this wanted some different outcome.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Alas, the continuing problem of collusion of the Feds and private companies.


This law was pure corporatism

[Syd]

Well, that's what happens when government isn't insulated against the market. All the reforms from the early 20th century that prevented corporations from dictating government policy were removed in the post-war era and here we are now with a liberalized market telling us we need to buy health insurance from them and mandating it through law. Oh, and subsidizing the extra costs by pocketing tax money.

[SonOfSmeagol]

Well, that's what happens when government isn't insulated against the market. All the reforms from the early 20th century that prevented corporations from dictating government policy were removed in the post-war era and here we are now with a liberalized market telling us we need to buy health insurance from them and mandating it through law. Oh, and subsidizing the extra costs by pocketing tax money.
poor poor obama & co. DUPED by the bad apple ins companies.

in any case, you should run with this Syd. Tell O and pelosi and reid and the other authors and all the voters of obamacare that the time is ripe! the american people want it! Go for single payer NOW!
:dry:

[Syd]

poor poor obama & co. DUPED by the bad apple ins companies.

http://americablog.com/2013/10/original-1989-document-heritage-foundation-created-obamacares-individual-mandate.html

No one was duped, it was the only way to get pre-existing conditions to be covered without the insurance industry funding court battles. That's the only good thing about PPACA -- the money now wants single payer insurance because jobs and health insurance aren't so intrinsically tied together. Plus, not for nothing, insurers can no longer deny coverage for expensive treatment because someone had acne.

Why do you think the challenge against PPACA failed in court? It was basically doctors being pissed at the Medicare cuts half-assing a legal challenge against it.

in any case, you should run with this Syd. Tell O and pelosi and reid and the other authors and all the voters of obamacare that the time is ripe! the american people want it! Go for single payer NOW!:dry:

Hermain Cain is already running with it. He's advocating Medicare-for-all

[WRESTLINGFAN]

From the same government that brought Medicare , Lets entrust them with single payer

[SonOfSmeagol]

Hermain Cain is already running with it. He's advocating Medicare-for-all
we draw the line at herman cain! turn your progressive card in at the front on the way out, sir. GOOD DAY to you sir

[Syd]

From the same government that brought Medicare , Lets entrust them with single payer

Medicare is pretty fantastic, so, yeah, let's entrust them with single payer.

we draw the line at herman cain! turn your progressive card in at the front on the way out, sir. GOOD DAY to you sir

some business owners are basically not on board with paying health insurance out -- there is a split between the Rothbard, anarcho-capitalist fuck the workers grind them into dust types, and the Rockefeller Republicans that want to keep American standards of living as they are, or increase them.

Hermain Cain may just be off his rocker because the only thing he knows is shitty pizza but he could be finally giving up on toeing the Chamber of Commerce line

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Medicare will be running deficits in the coming years.

Sure lets entrust an already bloated fed govt to totally manage healthcare .

The same govt who can't run a railroad

[Syd]

Medicare will be running deficits in the coming years.

Sure lets entrust an already bloated fed govt to totally manage healthcare .

The same govt who can't run a railroad

Medicare insures the people who are un-insurable because they're elderly or otherwise damaged goods. Plus, government isn't meant to run a profit. Otherwise why aren't we using our military to invade more countries for oil?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Medicare insures the people who are un-insurable because they're elderly or otherwise damaged goods. Plus, government isn't meant to run a profit. Otherwise why aren't we using our military to invade more countries for oil?



Will the Feds at least stop saying they're going to make investments. When you invest in something the goal is to get a ROI

[spoon]

Will the Feds at least stop saying they're going to make investments. When you invest in something the goal is to get a ROI

it's an investment in their country and people's health you dolt

[WRESTLINGFAN]

it's an investment in their country and people's health you dolt



An investment is voluntary and not via barrel of a gun. Again the purpose is to make money dopey

[Pitdoc]

An investment is voluntary and not via barrel of a gun. Again the purpose is to make money dopey

a good quote....if the U S of A was a business . The goal isn't to make a profit.

It's goal is "to promote the health and welfare of the people"

.. but I can see your point..They shouldn't call them investments.They should call them ENTITLEMENTS .. but then that's for the "takers" ,isnt it?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

a good quote....if the U S of A was a business . The goal isn't to make a profit.

It's goal is "to promote the health and welfare of the people"

.. but I can see your point..They shouldn't call them investments.They should call them ENTITLEMENTS .. but then that's for the "takers" ,isnt it?

Promote the general welfare. Within the limits of the constitution.


The Preamble was not a blanket statement for the Feds to do whatever they wanted.


I say you fire your Financial advisor and let the Feds manage your portfolio. If you short some positions maybe you'll break even

[spoon]

you're such an idiot

[Syd]

The Federal Reserve and the mandate to provide continual, low levels of inflation has been the most benevolent economic thing that has ever been done.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Next time you want higher income taxes, rest easy that its money collected to pay back the loans DC borrowed to a cartel of bankers.

Again, the fed is no honorable institution

[WRESTLINGFAN]

you're such an idiot

Romneycare is working in MA. I think it covers 90% of the uninsured. If VT wants to go single payer, have at it.

Why does everything have to be managed by dimbulbs on the Potomac


This law should be scrapped. Imagine if there's a president and congress which is not mostly people in the Democratic party and one day the president unilaterally said no more income tax for people making less than 100k or that he's unilaterally striking down the estate tax?

[A.J.]

Long-time Northern Virginia Democratic congressman James Moran to retire (http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/jim-moran-will-retire-at-the-end-of-the-year/2014/01/15/9d1b8ace-7dea-11e3-95c6-0a7aa80874bc_story.html)

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::c lap::clap::clap::clap:

Sure, they'll keep electing Democrats in my district but at least this wife-beating drunk will be gone!

[PapaBear]

Long-time Northern Virginia Democratic congressman James Moran to retire (http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/jim-moran-will-retire-at-the-end-of-the-year/2014/01/15/9d1b8ace-7dea-11e3-95c6-0a7aa80874bc_story.html)

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::c lap::clap::clap::clap:

Sure, they'll keep electing Democrats in my district but at least this wife-beating drunk will be gone!
It's a shame the Teabaggers got ridiculed for so called "spelling mistakes".

http://i611.photobucket.com/albums/tt194/kamrom/moran-1.jpg

[A.J.]

Indeed.

Actually PB you are losing your Congressman too, correct? Aren't you in Frank Wolf's district?

[PapaBear]

Indeed.

Actually PB you are losing your Congressman too, correct? Aren't you in Frank Wolf's district?
He wasn't in my district when first elected, but he has been for at least several years. There was redistricting at some point. I think I may have lived out of state at the time.

[epo]

It you believe the point of the government is to "make money", you don't understand the point of government.

I'm looking right at WF.

[foodcourtdruide]

It you believe the point of the government is to "make money", you don't understand the point of government.

I'm looking right at WF.

You're confused epo. The point of the government is to enable major corporations to make as much money as possible. That is a comment that both democratic and republican leaders would agree with, and is why they have much more in common than they do differences.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

It you believe the point of the government is to "make money", you don't understand the point of government.

I'm looking right at WF.

"making money" is the role of the federal reserve

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The latest numbers for Obamacare are less than impressive. Less than 25% who signed up were the young healthy people who are a critical part of it.


Last night another unilateral delay issued by the WH.

After all Barack said yesterday, He's got the pen out.

The overreaching continues

[epo]

The latest numbers for Obamacare are less than impressive. Less than 25% who signed up were the young healthy people who are a critical part of it.


Last night another unilateral delay issued by the WH.

After all Barack said yesterday, He's got the pen out.

The overreaching continues

What was this gigantic delay?

[epo]

The fed is extending the PCIP 45 days. In terms of the overall program, this is nothing.

Of course WF is using it is as a talking point, because he's a child who recites RW talking points like a parrot.

Squawk!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The Pre existing conditions deadline was moved to 3/31. Old deadline was today.

How are these ins companies supposed to execute their plans, payment procedures etc when the administration is constantly changing the rules ?


And, if there aren't enough people signing up will there be a bailout of these companies?

Or, Is too big to fail just for banks?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Busy week for scandals. Wendy Davis gets called out for manufacturing her past , the McDonnells get indicted for accepting gifts in return for business dealings and Bob Menendez is under investigation in connection with 2 fugitive bankers from Ecuador

And Obamacare continues to be a mess.

[PapaBear]

I almost feel bad for McDonnell. He caved in to the wishes of a selfish wife, that he apparently couldn't say "no" to. He did the same thing with his kids. I wasn't a fan of his, but he did do a pretty good job as Governor (especially for my area), when it comes to jobs. But he lied his way into office. Not that most politicians don't... His wife sounds like an entitled bitch, and his kids learned from her. Hell... They even got their executive mansion chef fired and indicted for the theft of goods that, as it turns out, were used by his kids. One thing I did find amusing about him was how he centered a large part of his campaign on subjects that made conservative Christians drool, then he pretty much forgot about them once he was in office.

[A.J.]

I'll take McDonnell over the idiot we have now.

[PapaBear]

What's really funny is, the press kept talking about how the investigation into McDonnell was a huge factor in the failure of Cuccinelli's run for Governor. But the whole McDonnell investigation was a direct result of an idiotic prosecution brought about by Cuccinelli. Had Cuccinelli not decided to make a big State deal out of the theft of food from the Executive Mansion, the chef would have had no reason to bring to light the actions of the McDonnells.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

In regards to Texas, Davis wants to have it both ways. She played the role of an independent woman but is now crying that shes being picked on. If that Dallas Morning news article is accurate, shes nothing but a gold digger with pink sneakers.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

More strange behavior from Barack.


taxpayer money being subsidized and run straight from the WH


http://www.politico.com/story/2014/01/white-house-office-of-political-strategy-outreach-102582.html

[A.J.]

I thought that was what the DNCC was for.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I know Presidents stump for other candidates, However why is the WH being used as a campaign clearing house with taxdollars paying for it?

Then again its more lawlessness. He has a pen and a phone.

[epo]

I know Presidents stump for other candidates, However why is the WH being used as a campaign clearing house with taxdollars paying for it?

Then again its more lawlessness. He has a pen and a phone.

Karl Rove never did such things!

Oh wait...

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Karl Rove never did such things!

Oh wait...

"Change has come to America"

[spoon]

the double standards are amazing

so he somehow hasn't "changed" anything, but has ruined this country right?

Love it!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Picking and choosing via executive fiat when he is supposed to be a constitutional scholar.
Running on civil liberties and anti intervention but furthering the abuse of spying and attacking countries which are not a threat to us.

Yup real change.


But he gave us healthcare

:wallbash::wallbash:

[A.J.]

I thought Vulcans weren't supposed to show emotion.

http://www.nhregister.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/storyimage/NH/20140129/NEWS/140129183/AR/0/AR-140129183.jpg&maxh=400&maxw=667

http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/835955326.gif?1390964328

God, I'm glad I don't live in her district anymore.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Shouldn't she be leading Janes Addiction?

[Dude!]

Shouldn't she be leading Janes Addiction?

or aerosmith

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Grimm broke rule # 1. Always assume the camera is on


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/w21Ou1Llcqo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[spoon]

Yah, that and all those pesky laws he broke bc he's such a great guy... Clearly.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

So who's going to be gullible and invest in that MyRA scheme?

Like the government is great at managing retirement plans. Social Security anyone?

[A.J.]

So who's going to be gullible and invest in that MyRA scheme?

Like the government is great at managing retirement plans. Social Security anyone?

I hope it's protected with Al Gore's lockbox!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

If you like your retirement plan....


Nevermind, they wont be using that sales pitch

[spoon]

So who's going to be gullible and invest in that MyRA scheme?

Like the government is great at managing retirement plans. Social Security anyone?

yes, SS is a resounding success that has been pilfered by the gov as a whole…GREAT example dickbag

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Keep thinking your federal overlords are not going to mismanage another program

[spoon]

Still not what i was illuminating at all in your stupid fucking non-point as you always do. The program to be wasn't even the point and we know very little yet but you know enough to bury it surely.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Henry Waxman to retire , there's talk that Sandra Fluke is interested in running for his seat

[A.J.]

So who's going to be gullible and invest in that MyRA scheme?

Like the government is great at managing retirement plans. Social Security anyone?

What exactly IS the difference between this and Social Security? A non-taxed program?

Because I think (and call me crazy here) we should revamp Social Security into an IRA-type program. There would then not be a need for yet another government program.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

This one is voluntary (for now). However when theres another bloated bureaucracy and funds are needed to staff all the administrators, trustees etc, won't be surprised if it becomes mandatory.


Also when they start dipping into the fund to pay for all the other thousands of programs, financing wars etc, that will be raided and replaced by IOU's just like SS

[spoon]

one is mandatory, the other will be up to the individual

there's no need to fix ss when it's not a problem in itself

ira's are on the side and he's trying to offer up something most would never get involved in unless with exposure to a decent employer or a past with some financial moderation

it's not a terrible idea in theory, but I'll withhold my full evaluation until we have something to evaluate

[spoon]

This one is voluntary (for now). However when theres another bloated bureaucracy and funds are needed to staff all the administrators, trustees etc, won't be surprised if it becomes mandatory.


Also when they start dipping into the fund to pay for all the other thousands of programs, financing wars etc, that will be raided and replaced by IOU's just like SS

first part, not a chance

second part, not ss's fault

that both idiotic parties and more trying to get their hands on funds for their stupid programs and districts/regions

should NEVER have been allowed even in times of trouble

[Dude!]

Henry Waxman to retire...

it's been neck and neck
with Waxman the last decade,
but now Rosa DeLauro will
indisputably be
the ugliest member of congress

[A.J.]

I would have said "nose and nose" when it comes to those two.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

first part, not a chance

second part, not ss's fault

that both idiotic parties and more trying to get their hands on funds for their stupid programs and districts/regions

should NEVER have been allowed even in times of trouble

Then who runs it? It's not going to be Barack as the Portfolio Manager in Chief. There has to be a department running this

Plus with the track record of the feds, there will be mismanagement and I don't put it past these people that it wont be mandatory.

You proved my point. DC can not be trusted with another government program

[spoon]

your idiotic answer to a problem is never do anything again, and that's such a foolish fucking concept it's comical

make it work, protect it and or fix it

simple if dc actually worked TOGETHER for us, versus for the parties and only their districts/regions

[WRESTLINGFAN]

How so?

All the programs setup have been uncovered with corruption, fraud waste and abuse. Do you really have faith in government that they can run this without those factors?

It's bad enough our government can't do the things they are constitutionally mandated correctly.

[spoon]

SHUT IT DOWN!!

there's your answer!

do it

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I'm not an anarchist

[spoon]

yeah, you're a fool

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Looks like the farm bill is going to be signed

Yay welfare for Monsanto and ADM.


Corporatism is alive and well

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The latest desperate attempt to peddle the shit known as Obamacare


http://www.politico.com/story/2014/02/white-house-obamacare-advertisement-103165.html?hp=l3

[spoon]

Sounds like someone needs their mommy to sign them up soon. Whine all day buddy! It's hilarious.

[A.J.]

Sounds like someone needs their mommy to sign them up soon.

Oh that reminds me: I have to call my uncle and make sure he's signed up.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Fluke pulls out of Congressional bid

[epo]

Fluke pulls out of Congressional bid

She was never in.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I read where she paid the filing fee, While that's not an official campaign, It was noted that she intends to run for the CA state Senate instead

[A.J.]

She was never in.

Well, not without those free condoms.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The economy still in the shitter, Obamacare a nightmare and a couple of 2 bit congressmen want to focus on a football teams name



http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/10/us/politics/2-lawmakers-urge-nfl-to-change-washington-redskins-name.html?_r=0

[WRESTLINGFAN]

And we have another delay of Obamacare


http://www.cnbc.com/id/101393331

[WRESTLINGFAN]

And another reason why the fed should be audited. There was a bi partisan bill which passed the house but Reid tabled it


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/21/fed-crisis-transcripts_n_4831527.html

[spoon]

An economic collapse is hard to deal with...BRILLIANT!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

:clap::clap::clap:

http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2014/02/fcc-backs-off-newsroom-study-183772.html

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Holy shit!!! You can't make this up


Lindsey Graham ✔ @GrahamBlog

It started with Benghazi. When you kill Americans and nobody pays a price, you invite this type of aggression. #Ukraine

[epo]

Holy shit!!! You can't make this up


Lindsey Graham ✔ @GrahamBlog

It started with Benghazi. When you kill Americans and nobody pays a price, you invite this type of aggression. #Ukraine

Lindsey...you ignorant has been...

[spoon]

And the poor have seafood!!! If anyone saw that segment on the daily show, it was hilarious but at the same time soooo pathetic. How stupid are people that they eat up the tripe fox feeds them. Humanity is dead.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Allegedly, Alan Grayson is waging his own war on women.

[A.J.]

And the poor have seafood!!!

At Red Lobster?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Your US house just voted to give a billion in loan guarantees to Ukraine

[Dude!]

Your US house just voted to give a billion in loan guarantees to Ukraine

like that'll make any difference...

"you've lost Crimea, but here's a billion
so shut up and don't make me draw
any more red lines I won't enforce"

[spoon]

U want him to enforce them and dive head first into ww3? And saying nothing helps how?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Ukraine will never pay that back , so we are on the hook.

Can these pricks be honest and call this a grant ?

[LeedsJr]

Ukraine will never pay that back , so we are on the hook.

Can these pricks be honest and call this a grant ?


No. Politicians lie. It's been that way for a while now.

[A.J.]

Your US house just voted to give a billion in loan guarantees to Ukraine

I hope that doesn't cut into Israel's share.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I know there's no thread for governors, races maybe rename this to Congressional and National election thread?

In any case Rick Scott seems like a shady character but what the hell is wrong with Florida? Charlie Crist seeking another run in Tallahassee? He's gotta be the biggest opportunist out there, Changing parties every 2 weeks

Oh and his fake tan is worse than Boehners

[pennington]

but what the hell is wrong with Florida? Charlie Crist seeking another run in Tallahassee? He's gotta be the biggest opportunist out there, Changing parties every 2 weeks

He's a Democrat this week, maybe his next stop is The Green Party. He's one of those people who has always been a politician. The only thing he knows how to do is run for office. If he wins, I'm sure we'll start hearing the he's considering a run for the presidency in 2020.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Crist is another Arlen Spector


Speaking of presidential runs, if Cuomo loses his bid for re election, that could hurt any chance in 2016

[spoon]

So how many times has he changed parties wf? Fill everyone in...ah fuck it i will bc it is essentially once. He left the gop after the tea party and rubio took over florida election he was in and he's not in line their at all. He at first changed to independent bc he wasn't sure on how he fit he dems...yet later realized he's almost a moderate dem already and still has the same views sonwho gives a fuck outside of those smitten like fools. That's where some here come in being their norm.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

In a much shorter explanation, he's an opportunist

That sums everything up. He loses a Senate race becomes an Indy , wants to become governor again and becomes a democrat.


While not the same order , he's a Bloomberg with a bad fake orange tan

[spoon]

In a much shorter explanation, he's an opportunist

That sums everything up. He loses a Senate race becomes an Indy , wants to become governor again and becomes a democrat.


While not the same order , he's a Bloomberg with a bad fake orange tan

If you want everything to fit your simplistic take on everything, sure. And what fucking politician ISN'T an opportunist?! Basically it comes down to the fact he hates the turn the GOP has taken while being hijacked by insane and idiotic tea party people, yes, idiotic. I could go with subtle racists and outright stupid at times too, much less simply automatons and obstructionists with very little, if anything to offer…but I won't. :wink:

I'm no Crist fan either, but it's clear you not only dislike him and none of it ties into his policies that really haven't changed much at all. Fuck the label, but your feeble mind can't comprehend that at all and go deeper. This is probably the reason you think it's so important to label yourself some "INDEPENDENT" thinker by way of a label, yet you're nothing short of a tea party asshole wrapped in a conservative gop wrapper minus the social issues…which I'm sure you don't like, but just don't care enough to make a stand on them comparatively.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Mr Political consultant himself trying to come up with these judgments about me when I already have stated numerous times my positions, but hey, lets just throw out generic labels.

Guess you forgot to mention that I didn't have a favorable comment about Scott.



Look how many times Crist changed affiliations and the timing of them. Those were just coincidences?


Florida is 1000 miles from me, We need to get this Colbert lookalike out of Hartford here in CT

[spoon]

trying to come up with?! ha!

and you basically just argued "I know you are, but what am I" in regard to generic labels…nice work…the fact still remains that your comprehension is fucking terrible

you're the top of the fuckwad fool ticket

that much is as surely a given

[WRESTLINGFAN]

There was a special election last night in Florida, The media is already speculating that it's a referendum on Obamacare. Obama won that district in 08 and 12.


Still way too early, election is 8 months away plus no one has made Todd Aiken type remarks yet.

[spoon]

yes yes, it's about that one issue on a different level election not based on those running at all

ref on obamacare…a made up word about a policy that has impacted only a few negatively, a lot in a good way (including us as med costs have come down if you actually read reports)…but hell, the false reports and outrage are being pushed non-stop by some outlets and idiots like you. If anything is to rip on the HCA, it's the lack of a public option and not going far enough…like some much more in this new hijacked t party bullshit gov.

[A.J.]

There was a special election last night in Florida, The media is already speculating that it's a referendum on Obamacare. Obama won that district in 08 and 12.


Still way too early, election is 8 months away plus no one has made Todd Aiken type remarks yet.

Not really since Bill Young, until his death the most senior Republican in the House, held that seat for as long as I have been alive.

[A.J.]

Allegedly, Alan Grayson is waging his own war on women.

He's been waging his own war on sanity.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

If Obamacare is such a positive, then why has there been more than 2 dozen delays? Why won't the administration release how many people have actually paid their premiums?
All we hear are enrollment numbers.



As far as costs, I've read where many have risen, The administration is using trick accounting (no surprise).

Less than 30% of those signups are the so called invincible's, the feds need that number to be greatly higher and they still have no plan B if they don't meet that goal, Which most likely won't happen come the 3/31 deadline.

[spoon]

Massive rehaul of a multi-billion dollar industry aggressively and actively being attacked, fought and held at any level is surprising to you? Interesting. And u READ that prices are up and u suspect the gov a trick accounting huh?! Again, soooo surprising being what u read, where u read it and beeing who u are trying to validate your own stances versus independent research. Just shocking stuff!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Overhaul meaning like whoring out to big business and granting carveouts and favoritism? Everything this federal government tries to reform ends up being an even bigger clusterfuck than the original problem.

[Midkiff]

http://static2.fjcdn.com/comments/Anyone%20+_f09bbc4efbb507887cef544a94e494cb.jpg

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Sebelius doesn't know how many people paid citing that the info isn't collected by HHS?

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/03/obamacare-affordable-care-act-health-insurance-premiums-104602.html#ixzz2voRwk8HV


The feds collect everything, down to our emails and texts and Sebelius comes up with an answer like that?