2012 POTUS and Congress General election off-season thread

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Congress and their staffers wanted exemptions. Labor unions were pushing for it but many got exemptions


If full single payer was implemented would Nancy Pelosi or McCain be waiting in the same line as everyone else?

[Syd]

Probably, wasn't it Pelosi that was pushing for that? Medicare covers something like 85% of all senior citizens. It's practically a monopoly.

and exemptions are kind of nebulous. I am not part of PPACA because of "exemptions"

[Syd]

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/05/rubio-demands-nonexistent-irs-commissioner-quit.html

Rubio Demands Resignation of Nonexistent IRS Commissioner

Oh, Marco Rubio. Never let a chance for a legitimate grievance go by without trying to distract from the issue to get political points out of it.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Not a fan of Rubio. However, he's a politician, of course he's going to put himself out there in the media

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Gosnell convicted of 1st Degree murder

[A.J.]

Gosnell convicted of 1st Degree murder

What does he have to do with POTUS or Congress?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Abortion is still a major issue. Some pols may want more restrictive access to abortions especially by pols from the deep south

[Syd]

The court case has basically no bearing, they were already pulling shit like this for years to prevent even contraceptives to be handed out. Gotta keep the families big so they have an endless supply of low-wage, uneducated labor.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I agree but they are going to exploit this like the gun control advocates did after Newtown

[Syd]

http://tndp.org/blog/2013/05/09/u-s-house-republican-majority-votes-to-axe-40-hour-work-week/

Heavily politicized article but the gist of it is, the House just tried to strip worker rights by eliminating the 40 hour work week and replacing overtime with "comp time" that has no actual promise of ever being utilize/paid out.

[epo]

Not a fan of Rubio. However, he's a politician, of course he's going to put himself out there in the media

He'd be a true conservative hero if he'd demand for the cleanup of the abuses of the 501c4 tax status by political organizations.

But he isn't. He's a typical GOP hack.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Gov't seizes phone records of AP

http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2013/05/govt-seizes-ap-reporters-phone-records-163862.html

[Dude!]

Gov't seizes phone records of AP

http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2013/05/govt-seizes-ap-reporters-phone-records-163862.html

that's bigger than the
Benghazi lies or using
the IRS to punish enemies
like Nixon

finally, the press will turn
and see him for what he is

some orwellian shit
been going down

[WRESTLINGFAN]

that's bigger than the
Benghazi lies or using
the IRS to punish enemies
like Nixon

finally, the press will turn
and see him for what he is

some orwellian shit
been going down

Barack Milhous

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Gotta expand the police state.

There's talks of lowering the BAC for DUI arrests from .08 to .05

Lawyers are salivating , this will get them more new clients

[PapaBear]

Gotta expand the police state.

There's talks of lowering the BAC for DUI arrests from .08 to .05

Lawyers are salivating , this will get them more new clients
I'm sure the President who originally appointed the current chairperson of the NTSB would be proud.











Yes... We know. You don't like Bush either.

[PapaBear]

Oh, and the recommendation would have to be implemented by each individual state. And we know how you hate State's rights...

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Oh, and the recommendation would have to be implemented by each individual state. And we know how you hate State's rights...



No objection to each state deciding, However look for big nanny states like NY to adapt the new limit.


It's just another revenue generating scheme because of lost tax revenue due to the awful economy

[PapaBear]

No objection to each state deciding, However look for big nanny states like NY to adapt the new limit.


It's just another revenue generating scheme because of lost tax revenue due to the awful economy
This is probably true. But what does that have to do with Obama or Congress?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Doesn't matter who the president is. Wrong is wrong

[WRESTLINGFAN]

This is probably true. But what does that have to do with Obama or Congress?



Look how the Feds dangle money, due to our awful tax system. If a state doesn't lower it to .05 , DC can withhold funds to states.

Once a deal with the devil is made, It's impossible to break that

[PapaBear]

Doesn't matter who the president is. Wrong is wrong
I don't think you'd be fooling anyone, if you said you didn't intend to bash Obama by posting it in this thread.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I don't think you'd be fooling anyone, if you said you didn't intend to bash Obama by posting it in this thread.



It's to bash the entire federal government. Congress isn't free from criticism either


Just because there are Bush holdovers doesn't mean they're off limits

[PapaBear]

It's to bash the entire federal government. Congress isn't free from criticism either
Congress doesn't have anything do with this NTSB recommendation either.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Congress appropriates money to bureaucracies

[WRESTLINGFAN]

This excuse with George Bush holds no weight. Ads promoting food stamp registration in Spanish to Mexicans 1st happened under Bush 43 and it was wrong then


The federal program doling out phones started under Reagan. Wrong then, wrong now


A Blanket amnesty was done in 1986.

[PapaBear]

This excuse with George Bush holds no weight. Ads promoting food stamp registration in Spanish to Mexicans 1st happened under Bush 43 and it was wrong then


The federal program doling out phones started under Reagan. Wrong then, wrong now


A Blanket amnesty was done in 1986.
I was trying to point out that this has absolutely NOTHING to do with Obama. You didn't mention his name, but your intention was continue your constant bitching about the Obama "police state". You can say that wasn't your intention, but no one with half a brain would believe you.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I was trying to point out that this has absolutely NOTHING to do with Obama. You didn't mention his name, but your intention was continue your constant bitching about the Obama "police state". You can say that wasn't your intention, but no one with half a brain would believe you.



You bringing up , well this goes back to Dubya holds no merit.

The NTSB is a federal bureaucracy. Obama is chief executive of the Fed gov't. Your argument would hold water if I said Obama called for it.


It all ties in to the already expansive overreach of the Feds overall. If a state doesn't drop to .05, There goes funding down the shitter

[PapaBear]

You bringing up , well this goes back to Dubya holds no merit.

The NTSB is a federal bureaucracy. Obama is chief executive of the Fed gov't. Your argument would hold water if I said Obama called for it.


It all ties in to the already expansive overreach of the Feds overall. If a state doesn't drop to .05, There goes funding down the shitter
If that happens, then your argument may have some merit. But I can't think of any case of an NTSB recommendation, resulting in the threat of funding strings being forced on states, in decades. If you can show me a halfway recent case of this, then I might agree that this has relevance to Federal overreaching. The NTSB is VERY different than just about any other Federal entity.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The NTSB doesn't make laws. It recommends policies like BAC limit.

If states don't fall in line then the spigot won't pour out as often to them

[spoon]

No no, making up problems and scary gov scenarios that aren't in any way a reality is a wf staple...when it suits his hate and idiocy.

[PapaBear]

The NTSB doesn't make laws. It recommends policies like BAC limit.

If states don't fall in line then the spigot won't pour out as often to them
You already said that. Show recent proof that this has happened since the nationwide lowering to .08. And I don't even think that had anything to do with the NTSB.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Here's the real issue. If a state passes a .05 limit that means on average a man who drinks 2.5 Bottles of beer in 60 minutes, He's considered drunk.


1st it was .10 Then .08 and I'm sure many states will pass .05

In a few years it can be as little as trace amounts of alcohol in your bloodstream.

[PapaBear]

In short, the NTSB is one of the least political entities in the existence of the Federal Government.

[PapaBear]

Here's the real issue. If a state passes a .05 limit that means on average a man who drinks 2.5 Bottles of beer in 60 minutes, He's considered drunk.


1st it was .10 Then .08 and I'm sure many states will pass .05

In a few years it can be as little as trace amounts of alcohol in your bloodstream.
In your first post, you brought up the tired "police state" cliche. Driving is not a right. If a state decides they don't want anyone to drink and drive, how is that infringing on the rights of anyone? And how does that have anything to do with POTUS or Congress?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

NTSB + State legislative bodies = .05

[PapaBear]

NTSB + State legislative bodies = .05
I missed that equation in my woeful public education experience. What's your point?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

In your first post, you brought up the tired "police state" cliche. Driving is not a right. If a state decides they don't want anyone to drink and drive, how is that infringing on the rights of anyone? And how does that have anything to do with POTUS or Congress?



More checkpoints, More cops setting up roadblocks and taxpayers funding all that overtime

Again, states don't fall in line, no federal funding.

Plus if Obama was asked about this he would be all for it

[PapaBear]

More checkpoints, More cops setting up roadblocks and taxpayers funding all that overtime

Again, states don't fall in line, no federal funding.

Plus if Obama was asked about this he would be all for it
PROVE IT!!!! :wallbash:

[WRESTLINGFAN]

National Minimum Drinking age act.

States who didn't raise the age to 21 would receive 10% less annually for highway funding

Also 1913, When our tax system became overreaching

[WRESTLINGFAN]

How about the NTSB recommending if you drive past a liquor store you're considered drunk

[keithy_19]

How about the NTSB recommending if you drive past a liquor store you're considered drunk

Um...:unsure:

I'm not for big government. I'm for the legalization of all drugs. That being said, I'm working on my third beer and I'm smart enough not to go and drive anywhere. Just kind of makes sense. .08 or .05.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Um...:unsure:

I'm not for big government. I'm for the legalization of all drugs. That being said, I'm working on my third beer and I'm smart enough not to go and drive anywhere. Just kind of makes sense. .08 or .05.

What is the time designation of those 3 ? If it's 20 minutes then I would say that is buzzed

Some of these laws are ambiguous. I've read if you're pulled over the side of the road, The keys are not in the ignition and you're asleep, depending on the jurisdiction you can still get a DUI

[Syd]

Well, yeah, drunk people don't just teleport with their cars onto the side of the road.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

How about if they parked across the street from the bar?

That's not exactly Star Trek

[brettmojo]

If you sleep it off in the parking lot that's fine, but if you've started the car and driven you've broken the law. No matter how you're found that's just silly.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

It's silly that having the wrong substance in your blood can criminalize you and punishing you to the effect of losing your license and forking over at least 10K in fines lawyers, court cost etc.

I'm not advocating someone drink a 12 pack and drive, However if you're not destroying property and not causing an accident there shouldn't be these draconian punishments . Plus cops can't focus on more serious crimes

Now if you hit someone head on , Then there should be harsh punishment if it's determined that you're drunk.

[keithy_19]

How about if they parked across the street from the bar?

That's not exactly Star Trek

Serious question: Did they drink in Star Trek? Or was space a dry locality?

[keithy_19]

It's silly that having the wrong substance in your blood can criminalize you and punishing you to the effect of losing your license and forking over at least 10K in fines lawyers, court cost etc.

I'm not advocating someone drink a 12 pack and drive, However if you're not destroying property and not causing an accident there shouldn't be these draconian punishments . Plus cops can't focus on more serious crimes

Now if you hit someone head on , Then there should be harsh punishment if it's determined that you're drunk.

I agree with all of this.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Serious question: Did they drink in Star Trek? Or was space a dry locality?



Don't know. I was never a Trekkie

[WRESTLINGFAN]

There could be unintended consequences in states like Colorado where pot was legalized. They could pass laws that have a certain amount of THC in your system could be impaired driving.

[keithy_19]

There could be unintended consequences in states like Colorado where pot was legalized. They could pass laws that have a certain amount of THC in your system could be impaired driving.

And there should be. Don't be impaired and drive. It doesn't seem all that bad of an idea to me.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I agree with all of this.



If they have to punish someone who is over the limit but not at a .20, A moving violation would suffice. For example if a state has a 3 strike rule over a certain amount of years ,I wouldn't object to that

[Syd]

There could be unintended consequences in states like Colorado where pot was legalized. They could pass laws that have a certain amount of THC in your system could be impaired driving.

There's no field sobriety test kit for THC so any impairment as judged by the officer can result in an arrest on suspicion of DWI. Zero tolerance

[WRESTLINGFAN]

There's no field sobriety test kit for THC so any impairment as judged by the officer can result in an arrest on suspicion of DWI. Zero tolerance



Impairment can be not enough sleep. Should someone be punished for just looking tired even though they didn't drink but they pulled an all nighter to finish a term paper or study for an exam?

[keithy_19]

Impairment can be not enough sleep. Should someone be punished for just looking tired even though they didn't drink but they pulled an all nighter to finish a term paper or study for an exam?

I think they would need a reason to pull you over. I assume reckless driving.

[Syd]

Impairment can be not enough sleep. Should someone be punished for just looking tired even though they didn't drink but they pulled an all nighter to finish a term paper or study for an exam?

There's no blood test (yet) for being sleepy. It'd be nearly impossible to prove in court whereas there are plenty of blood tests for THC which can prove marijuana impairment in court.

[keithy_19]

There's no blood test (yet) for being sleepy. It'd be nearly impossible to prove in court whereas there are plenty of blood tests for THC which can prove marijuana impairment in court.

I'm not sure how the blood test would work. They can't just go and say "well I'm suspcious so I'm sending you to the hospital to give blood."

[spoon]

It's silly that having the wrong substance in your blood can criminalize you and punishing you to the effect of losing your license and forking over at least 10K in fines lawyers, court cost etc.

I'm not advocating someone drink a 12 pack and drive, However if you're not destroying property and not causing an accident there shouldn't be these draconian punishments . Plus cops can't focus on more serious crimes

Now if you hit someone head on , Then there should be harsh punishment if it's determined that you're drunk.


So let me get this straight...you don't advocate a twelve pack and drive but it is ok to drive home as long as you don't end up in a head on collision. So it all comes down to luck and drunk driving skill!? You are hilarious! I can see helmet and seat belt laws being nuts but linked to higher insurance cost if ubchoose this route, but you dui/dwi ideology is comical. And for the record i AM NOT for a lessening of the bac limits at all, as it should be 1.0 at highest and 0.8 at its extreme lowest. Shit like this is the only thing politicians can agree on and try to sell it as getting something done. It's bs in the end.

[PapaBear]

National Minimum Drinking age act.

States who didn't raise the age to 21 would receive 10% less annually for highway funding

Also 1913, When our tax system became overreaching

I asked you to provide proof that recommendations from the NTSB have recently (if EVER) resulted in the Federal Government imposing funding mandates on States. Name ONE! I also asked that you keep it at least SLIGHTLY current. 1913? And SLIGHTLY relevant to your first post about this, and my response. Tax system? :laugh:

How about the NTSB recommending if you drive past a liquor store you're considered drunk
Spoon must truly be retarded for spending so much time on you.

I think I might start looking into the wrestling forum. I've never understood why anyone was interested in them, but they MUST make more sense than the political threads!

[spoon]

And there should be. Don't be impaired and drive. It doesn't seem all that bad of an idea to me.


This.

[PapaBear]

So let me get this straight...you don't advocate a twelve pack and drive but it is ok to drive home as long as you don't end up in a head on collision. So it all comes down to luck and drunk driving skill!?
Ron?

[spoon]

I'm not sure how the blood test would work. They can't just go and say "well I'm suspcious so I'm sending you to the hospital to give blood."
Simple, are u impaired and if you can not pass a field test. Bottom line is you shouldn't drive when a risk to yourself, your family/passengers and of course the public/us. It really isn't that tough.

[spoon]

I asked you to provide proof that recommendations from the NTSB have recently (if EVER) resulted in the Federal Government imposing funding mandates on States. Name ONE! I also asked that you keep it at least SLIGHTLY current. 1913? And SLIGHTLY relevant to your first post about this, and my response. Tax system? :laugh:


Spoon must truly be retarded for spending so much time on you.

I think I might start looking into the wrestling forum. I've never understood why anyone was interested in them, but they MUST make more sense than the political threads!

Sadly i can't argue too much with that one, but his idiocy does crack me up sooooo much tbh. So there's that!

I never understood how anyone could watch scripted men in tights scream at each ofher and play dress up even as a kid. Nver got the wrestling thing at all, as it's a gay soap opera for men in the end. But to each his own...right kevf!?

[spoon]

Ron?



Huh?

[jennysmurf]

Huh?

Sssshhhhh....

[spoon]

You shush!

Grrrrrr

[jennysmurf]

You shush!

Grrrrrr

Made you growl! I win! :clap:

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I asked you to provide proof that recommendations from the NTSB have recently (if EVER) resulted in the Federal Government imposing funding mandates on States. Name ONE! I also asked that you keep it at least SLIGHTLY current. 1913? And SLIGHTLY relevant to your first post about this, and my response. Tax system? :laugh:


Spoon must truly be retarded for spending so much time on you.

I think I might start looking into the wrestling forum. I've never understood why anyone was interested in them, but they MUST make more sense than the political threads!


I already gave you proof with the National minimum drinking age law


Spoon being retarded? At least we agree on that

[WRESTLINGFAN]

So let me get this straight...you don't advocate a twelve pack and drive but it is ok to drive home as long as you don't end up in a head on collision. So it all comes down to luck and drunk driving skill!? You are hilarious! I can see helmet and seat belt laws being nuts but linked to higher insurance cost if ubchoose this route, but you dui/dwi ideology is comical. And for the record i AM NOT for a lessening of the bac limits at all, as it should be 1.0 at highest and 0.8 at its extreme lowest. Shit like this is the only thing politicians can agree on and try to sell it as getting something done. It's bs in the end.

Do we need to have these random checkpoints and waste taxpayer money on them?

Cops love them because it pads their overtime .

Should the penalties be that draconian if someone has a .08 that it ends up costing him thousands ?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Sadly i can't argue too much with that one, but his idiocy does crack me up sooooo much tbh. So there's that!

I never understood how anyone could watch scripted men in tights scream at each ofher and play dress up even as a kid. Nver got the wrestling thing at all, as it's a gay soap opera for men in the end. But to each his own...right kevf!?


I never understood how a bunch of fat white collared men can chase a ball for 4 hours or even worse , watch it on TV. Carlin was right , it's like watching flies fuck


However with golf and wrestling, there's a demand for each respective product and that demand is very high

[Syd]

I'm not sure how the blood test would work. They can't just go and say "well I'm suspcious so I'm sending you to the hospital to give blood."

Interesting take -- especially because that's how DUIs currently work. Field sobriety tests aren't really admissible in court.

[brettmojo]

It's silly that having the wrong substance in your blood can criminalize you and punishing you to the effect of losing your license and forking over at least 10K in fines lawyers, court cost etc.

I'm not advocating someone drink a 12 pack and drive, However if you're not destroying property and not causing an accident there shouldn't be these draconian punishments . Plus cops can't focus on more serious crimes

Now if you hit someone head on , Then there should be harsh punishment if it's determined that you're drunk.

So with this logic pilots getting drunk and flying commercial airliners are fine as long as they don't crash into the side of a mountain... Then UH OH.

Don't fucking drink and drive. It's pretty fucking simple. BUT HEY NO BIG GOVERNMENT TELLING ME I CAN'T PUT PEOPLE'S LIVES IN DANGER MAAAAAAAANNNNNNNN.

[brettmojo]

WRESTLINGFAN LOGIC: It's ok if you're firing into an open crowd BUT IF YOU HIT SOMEONE WITH A BULLET UH OH!!!

[brettmojo]

WRESTLINGFAN LOGIC: It's ok to shoot toddlers up with heroin BUT IF ONE OF THEM DIES UH OH!!!!!!

[brettmojo]

WRESTLINGFAN LOGIC: It's ok to keep three women hostage as sex slaves BUT IF ONE OF THEM ESCAPES UH OH!!!!!!

[brettmojo]

WRESTLINGFAN LOGIC: It's ok to let your dogs run around the neighborhood unchained BUT IF ONE OF THEM MAULS A TWO-YEAR-OLD'S FACE OFF UH OH!!!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

WRESTLINGFAN LOGIC: It's ok to let your dogs run around the neighborhood unchained BUT IF ONE OF THEM MAULS A TWO-YEAR-OLD'S FACE OFF UH OH!!!!!


Tens of millions claim false deductions on their taxes every year but hey if you don't get audited , not a big deal

[Jujubees2]

Do we need to have these random checkpoints and waste taxpayer money on them?

Cops love them because it pads their overtime .

Should the penalties be that draconian if someone has a .08 that it ends up costing him thousands ?

YES! Have you ever lost a friend to a drunk driver? If that's all it does is cost someone a grand they should consider themselves lucky.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

YES! Have you ever lost a friend to a drunk driver? If that's all it does is cost someone a grand they should consider themselves lucky.



I already said if there's an accident involving someone who is drunk then charge him to the max, however are you willing to continue to allow civil liberties to be infringed?

These arbitrary numbers like what is proposed .05 . Do you believe that's drunk because your government says it is?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Have you lost anyone to gun violence? Why not set up checkpoints to see if you're carrying a gun without a permit.


If you live in NYC and you're a certain skin color that's already happening. Stop and Frisk.

[Jujubees2]

Have you lost anyone to gun violence? Why not set up checkpoints to see if you're carrying a gun without a permit.


If you live in NYC and you're a certain skin color that's already happening. Stop and Frisk.

Because, much to my dismay, it's legal to carry weapons in some states. It's not legal to drive while impaired in any state.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Because, much to my dismay, it's legal to carry weapons in some states. It's not legal to drive while impaired in any state.

You live in NY correct ? Does it matter to you what the laws in Texas are ?

It's legal to wear a backpack but illegal to carry an IED in all states, So do we have checkpoints for people wearing backpacks?

[Jujubees2]

You live in NY correct ? Does it matter to you what the laws in Texas are ?

It's legal to wear a backpack but illegal to carry an IED in all states, So do we have checkpoints for people wearing backpacks?

Wow WF, you can really go to extremes!

*Drunk driving is the most frequently committed crime in the United States.
*About 30 percent of all Americans will be involved in an alcohol-related car crash during their lifetime.
*More than 40 percent of all fatal auto accidents are alcohol-related.
*An alcohol-related crash kills one person every 31 minutes and injures one person every two minutes.
*Auto accidents are the greatest single cause of death for young people between the ages of six and 27. Almost half of these accidents involve alcohol.
*Your chance of being involved in a drunk-driving accident increases dramatically with every two beers you drink. Have a six pack and your chances of being in a drunk-driving accident are 44 percent.
*1,700 college students die each year from alcohol-related accidents, including car crashes.
*Approximately 600,000 college students are injured under the influence of alcohol, many of which are automobile-related.


In the United States, the public cost of alcohol-induced traffic incidents is estimated to be around $114.3 billion. This includes $51.1 billion in monetary costs and roughly $62.3 billion in life losses. The driver is not the only one financially affected in these situations; people other than the drunk driver pay around $71.6 billion for alcohol-related crashes.

So when IED costs approach the costs associated with drunk driving then, yes, I will be in favor of a checkpoint for all people carrying backpacks.

[A.J.]

"Drunk" driving is arbitrary. As someone who got pinched years ago because I had a trace of a beer in my system after not drinking for 2 hours, the parameters are flawed.

Besides, there is a greater danger from idiots who text while driving.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

If the limit gets lowered to .05 those numbers will increase. Then the powers that be can boast they made more arrests

There are people who drive impaired all the time . Alcohol isn't the only depressant.

Is there a correlation that lower limits decrease DUI arrests?

Terrorism has had a huge financial cost. 12 years and trillions of dollars wasted in Afghanistan trying to nation build

[WRESTLINGFAN]

If .05 minimum gets passed and is nationwide that means someone who went to dinner with his wife , has a drink at the bar while waiting for the table. Has a couple with his meal, Then has an after dinner cordial all within a 3-4 hour range, is stopped at a checkpoint and blows a .05 , is that grounds to get his license taken away, car impounded, and pay thousands in fines fees etc ?

[Jujubees2]

"Drunk" driving is arbitrary. As someone who got pinched years ago because I had a trace of a beer in my system after not drinking for 2 hours, the parameters are flawed.

Besides, there is a greater danger from idiots who text while driving.

Agreed which is why it is also illegal in most states (though I don't believe all)

Parents of College Student Who Died in Texting-While-Driving Crash Release Grim Photo of His Last, Unfinished Text (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/04/11/parents-of-college-student-who-died-in-texting-while-driving-crash-release-grim-photo-of-his-last-unfinished-text/)

http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/435x600.jpg

[Syd]

If .05 minimum gets passed and is nationwide that means someone who went to dinner with his wife , has a drink at the bar while waiting for the table. Has a couple with his meal, Then has an after dinner cordial all within a 3-4 hour range, is stopped at a checkpoint and blows a .05 , is that grounds to get his license taken away, car impounded, and pay thousands in fines fees etc ?

It comes down to, do people have the right to endanger others because they cannot find a taxi or a designated driver? Alcohol of any amount impairs judgment and as BAC climbs, physical and mental ability decreases.

Also .05 is quite a bit -- you need to be taking at least 2 shots/4 beers an hour more or less to maintain .05 if you're an average male.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

It comes down to, do people have the right to endanger others because they cannot find a taxi or a designated driver? Alcohol of any amount impairs judgment and as BAC climbs, physical and mental ability decreases.

Also .05 is quite a bit -- you need to be taking at least 2 shots/4 beers an hour more or less to maintain .05 if you're an average male.


There are people driving who haven't got enough sleep as they are a threat. People are driving high on pot


Do we need to abuse civil liberties of everyone else ?
A few years after .05 who's to say that it won't get lowered to .03

Why not have checkpoints at 3pm then ? Alcohol consumption doesn't start after 5

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I checked to see MADD's opinion on lowering it to .05 and they are not fully behind it

[Syd]

There are people driving who haven't got enough sleep as they are a threat. People are driving high on pot

And? As I said before, there's no current scientifically accepted test that can prove whether or not someone had enough sleep. Common law dictates it's not what you know but what you can prove. If people are driving under the influence of schedule'd drugs, they can be tested for that and tried accordingly because it can be proven.


Do we need to abuse civil liberties of everyone else ?
A few years after .05 who's to say that it won't get lowered to .03

Is drinking to the point of inebriation and then driving afterward a right? Just operating a motor vehicle is a privilege -- why would people all of a sudden have a right to get drunk and then drive but not have the right to drive while sober?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

And? As I said before, there's no current scientifically accepted test that can prove whether or not someone had enough sleep. Common law dictates it's not what you know but what you can prove. If people are driving under the influence of schedule'd drugs, they can be tested for that and tried accordingly because it can be proven.




Is drinking to the point of inebriation and then driving afterward a right? Just operating a motor vehicle is a privilege -- why would people all of a sudden have a right to get drunk and then drive but not have the right to drive while sober?


Why entrust the government to determine what level drunk is?


Do taxpayers have a say when their property taxes get raised every year to cover the overtime , court costs etc?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The average BAC of a drunk driver who kills someone is .16

Instead of targeting the hardcore drinker, with everything else , the government enacts laws to punish people who wont drive after drinking a 6 pack and a shot within 1 hour

[Syd]

Why entrust the government to determine what level drunk is?


Do taxpayers have a say when their property taxes get raised every year to cover the overtime , court costs etc?

Why entrust anyone with anything? Welcome to anarchy, buddy. You, me and Hemingway can go hash things out.

The average BAC of a drunk driver who kills someone is .16

Instead of targeting the hardcore drinker, with everything else , the government enacts laws to punish people who wont drive after drinking a 6 pack and a shot within 1 hour

Because real world studies have shown a drop in fatalities that coincides with the reduction in the legal BAC limit?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Why entrust anyone with anything? Welcome to anarchy, buddy. You, me and Hemingway can go hash things out.



Because real world studies have shown a drop in fatalities that coincides with the reduction in the legal BAC limit?


Yes we should trust the government with everything like with tapping phones or surveillance without warrants ?

Someone who took his wife to dinner isn't the same as someone who spent 5 hours at the bar who had 12 drinks

The government is targeting the wrong people

[Syd]

Yes we should trust the government with everything like with tapping phones or surveillance without warrants ?

Someone who took his wife to dinner isn't the same as someone who spent 5 hours at the bar who had 12 drinks

The government is targeting the wrong people

Impairment is impairment -- level of impairment certainly matters but just some hetero guy who takes his wife to dinner isn't some ubermensch capable of shrugging off the impact of alcohol on his system.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Impairment is impairment -- level of impairment certainly matters but just some hetero guy who takes his wife to dinner isn't some ubermensch capable of shrugging off the impact of alcohol on his system.



So why not have laws that say trace amounts is grounds for DWI.

[PapaBear]

I already gave you proof with the National minimum drinking age law
I said recent and NTSB. that was neither. I win. It's wrasslin' time!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

watch for scenarios like that into the future when the Feds keep money on the sidelines when states won't implement. Currently none that i can recall so you win.

The Feds did it before and they will do it again

[foodcourtdruide]

Why entrust the government to determine what level drunk is?


Do taxpayers have a say when their property taxes get raised every year to cover the overtime , court costs etc?

I love when you can pinpoint the exact moment a libertarians argument veers from logical to utopian fantasy.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

That's the 1st time I saw utopian and libertarian in the same sentence.

[hanso]

I've got aj blocked, so don't know what you mean.

He favored (as I did) the one candidate in the primary who had moderate leanings. And it was by no coincident that he came in last place.

[hanso]

No objection to each state deciding, However look for big nanny states like NY to adapt the new limit.


It's just another revenue generating scheme because of lost tax revenue due to the awful economy

The term 'nanny state' is not an actual state. You made you bed with state rights so sleep in it, or turn in you libertarian card.

[hanso]

Here's the real issue. If a state passes a .05 limit that means on average a man who drinks 2.5 Bottles of beer in 60 minutes, He's considered drunk.


1st it was .10 Then .08 and I'm sure many states will pass .05

In a few years it can be as little as trace amounts of alcohol in your bloodstream.

This is the only example of 'slippery slope' that I can think of, which took place over a 40 year or so time line. And it pertains to drunks, therefore anyone who uses this dumb ass moniker is a drunken fool.

[hanso]

Serious question: Did they drink in Star Trek? Or was space a dry locality?

This is why everyone should visit his blog.

[hanso]

I asked you to provide proof that recommendations from the NTSB have recently (if EVER) resulted in the Federal Government imposing funding mandates on States. Name ONE! I also asked that you keep it at least SLIGHTLY current. 1913? And SLIGHTLY relevant to your first post about this, and my response. Tax system? :laugh:


Spoon must truly be retarded for spending so much time on you.

I think I might start looking into the wrestling forum. I've never understood why anyone was interested in them, but they MUST make more sense than the political threads!

:lol:

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The term 'nanny state' is not an actual state. You made you bed with state rights so sleep in it, or turn in you libertarian card.



I thought it was the 57th state

The entire country isn't?

When millions are tricked into believing in programs like social security, Medicare and Obamacare are beneficial and have no unintended and intended consequences , the nanny state exists


.05 will be for the entire country if states sign on.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I heard some of the speech Obama said today and I noticed he said that we can't be in a perpetual state of war against terrorism. While I welcome that statement I didn't hear anything about making an effort to kill the patriot act , NDAA and end these over the top security measures especially in airports

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Fuck off unions. You wanted the Jelly donut? You eat it!!! Everyone else pays for it


http://m.cbsnews.com/storysynopsis.rbml?pageType=politics&url=http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57586030/now-some-unions-upset-over-obamacare/&catid=57586030

[Syd]

Fuck off unions. You wanted the Jelly donut? You eat it!!! Everyone else pays for it


http://m.cbsnews.com/storysynopsis.rbml?pageType=politics&url=http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57586030/now-some-unions-upset-over-obamacare/&catid=57586030

protip: unions weren't pro PPACA because it's a republican idea

unions are, or were, pro single payer because it alleviates a burden placed on durable good manufacturers

[WRESTLINGFAN]

If they weren't pro Obamacare, why did it get the blessing of the Bosses ?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The squawking has already started about the bridge collapse in WA. As usual the calls for infrastructure spending are going on.

They didnt realize that an oversize truck caused the overhead trusses to collapse

Besides the stimulus was supposed to go towards infrastructure

[hanso]

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This guy goes on the alex jones show along with his dad. Can he get voted out already?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Jan Schacowski shows up at May Day marches, John Conyers is at Farrakhan rallies , can they be voted out already ?

[spoon]

The squawking has already started about the bridge collapse in WA. As usual the calls for infrastructure spending are going on.

They didnt realize that an oversize truck caused the overhead trusses to collapse

Besides the stimulus was supposed to go towards infrastructure


Ha! Surely enough money to go around that every bridge, tunnel and road have been fixed and upgraded right?!

[spoon]

And squawking in regard to a bridge collapse...cute fuckwad.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I'm really glad those fed and state excise taxes on gas are going into maintenance

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Barack Obamas own words were 400,000 men would be put to work if we borrowed 787 billion for a stimulus. Remember nobody messes with Joe and Recovery summers?

Along with all the other shit pumped from DC it was just another payoff package and slush fund

[hanso]

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Q-nV4AGV50I?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Buh bye!

Translating Michele Bachmann’s Resignation Speech

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/05/29/translating-michele-bachmanns-resignation-speech/

[spoon]

dammit HANSO!

that's like the batsignal for WF to come back!

it's been an AMAZING 24 hours without his idiocy here...now here comes the Obama caused Rivera's blown save last night and shitty weather posts

[WRESTLINGFAN]

No no no

It's Obamas fault the rangers canned Torterella

[SonOfSmeagol]

that's like the batsignal for WF

It's Obamas fault

'tis but one round, who will win the match?

http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab109/SonOfSmeagol/cat_sword.jpg (http://s854.photobucket.com/user/SonOfSmeagol/media/cat_sword.jpg.html)

[WRESTLINGFAN]

1984 is here. Today the doors open for the Domestic Surveillance National Data Warehouse in Utah

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Typical line from a low rent dime store hack like Bobby Rush

This was the same clod who wore a hoodie on the house floor.


What's his plan then? No wonder the windy city is known as Chi-Raq

http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/05/30/rep-bobby-rush-knocks-kirks-white-boy-plan-for-gang-crackdown/

[Jujubees2]

Typical line from a low rent dime store hack like Bobby Rush

This was the same clod who wore a hoodie on the house floor.


What's his plan then? No wonder the windy city is known as Chi-Raq

http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/05/30/rep-bobby-rush-knocks-kirks-white-boy-plan-for-gang-crackdown/

Someone must have opened a for-profit prison in Illinois and needs some inmates.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Some Octogenerian says Wetback on a radio station in Bumfuck Alaska it's non stop news

It's ok to say White Boy. I guess it's better than saying cracker

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Anyone see the cover of Time? Rahm is on the front and it Reads Chicago bull.

Yup that Rahm is doing a stellar job voicing his opinions about Chick Fil A and telling the homies to keep the violence on the DL

[spoon]

Some Octogenerian says Wetback on a radio station in Bumfuck Alaska it's non stop news

It's ok to say White Boy. I guess it's better than saying cracker

So u obviously fail to see the difference bt white boy and wetback? And your attempt to play any state card is just as comical.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Oh so it's ok to say certain slurs as long as its not against minorities

Gotcha !!!

[spoon]

Never said that idiot.

Terms still completely different.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

White boy is a slur


Besides instead of hatin on Whitey what does Rush propose for the crime infestation?


He's only represented his district for 20 years

[spoon]

not defending rush or his vitriol either

i'm saying your ploy to compare these phases and situations is hilarious

Rush is a fucking asshole, like you.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

A Slur is a slur.

Say what you want about me you fuckbag. I don't have the power to raise your taxes or violate your civil rights

[spoon]

Thank fucking GOD!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I would advocate for you to have a fair or flat tax and to gut the TSA and kill the NDAA and patriot act.

[spoon]

Only the last two make ant sense.

[Pitdoc]

A Slur is a slur.

Say what you want about me you fuckbag. I don't have the power to raise your taxes or violate your civil rights

Other than the ACA( and not for everybody) , when has Obama raised taxes?


(I know its poking the bear....)

[spoon]

If bear is the new equivalent to a fuckwad idiot.

[PapaBear]

Is it a slur, if no white person on the planet has ever been offended by being called "white boy"? I mean, aside from the race wars that erupted in 1979 after this atrocity...

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/81-ph0YYLOE?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[hanso]

High level politicians on the right say absurd things every day.

They also have a 3/1 ratio for false statements

[spoon]

Sooooo offended now. Dirty just capped it!

[PapaBear]

Sooooo offended now. Dirty just capped it!
White on white hate is the worst. But what can you expect from... You know... FOREIGNERS!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Other than the ACA( and not for everybody) , when has Obama raised taxes?


(I know its poking the bear....)


The fiscal cliff deal.

SCHIP


Payroll tax (yes this was temporary but it still is a tax increase)

[WRESTLINGFAN]

High level politicians on the right say absurd things every day.

They also have a 3/1 ratio for false statements


I guess you never heard all the goofy shit Biden has been saying

[Pitdoc]

The fiscal cliff deal.

SCHIP


Payroll tax (yes this was temporary but it still is a tax increase)

Fiscal cliff was agreeing that tax CUTS would expire for anybody over $400K

Payroll tax (which Obama CUT ) also EXPIRED


Because TAX CUTS expire or are not renewed does NOT mean taxes were raised. You just lived off not paying the PROPER amount for 10 years .Now its time to pay up for the high deficits caused by tax cuts for (mostly rich) people . The payroll tax. It NEVER should have been cut. It funds Social Security !! Ihate hearing with one sentence a conservative would say we need the payroll tax cuts, then in the next sentence mention how Social Security is going broke (It never was, but we keep stealing from their pot to fund the budget).

I hear about so many RIGHTS that the conservatives say this country is taking away .

They never mention the RESPONSIBILITY of paying for all of this shit.


Oh , & SCHIP raised tobacco taxes...Fuck em..

[spoon]

stop making fucking sense doc

wf will need a translator

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Barack Obama said that if you make less than 250K your taxes will not go up one single dime.


Focus on the word taxes. Don't try to spin it for only income taxes


Translate that

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Responsibility for only the 18 enumerated powers mandated in article I section VIII

Not to be given in foreign aid or to subsidize Monsanto and bailing out GM and Chrysler

But hey. We are a democracy right ?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

As far as social security? It's nothing but the worlds biggest ponzi scheme.

That surplus your government overlords brag about are IOUs in the form of T Bonds.


The same government that can't even run a fucking railroad , is to be trusted in a quasi retirement fund?


I can't wait for Obamacare to fail, but then again it will bring all the people out of the woodwork squawking for single payer

[spoon]

blah, blah, blah, hate Obama

got it

[WRESTLINGFAN]

A Tax is a tax


End of story

[spoon]

SINGLE

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/82/Julius_Payer.jpg/220px-Julius_Payer.jpg

[spoon]

A Tax is a tax


End of story

deep

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Taxes raise revenue . It's not that complicated. There isn't a need for some worthless blue ribbon panel to study it

[spoon]

so the plan should be drop taxes, hire unqualified idiot buddies to run departments and make government programs fail to prove they shouldn't be right...sounds par for the course


cause the issue and then blame the other side...even if it doesn't come crumbling down, they'll have to clean the mess their whole time in office and then we come back in and wreck it again and fleece all the money possible

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The plan is to overhaul the tax system. Kill the 16th amendment and gut these useless bureaucracies like the Dept of Education , IRS and Homeland security.

Bring our men home from Afghanistan and the other 700 military bases around the world.


I'm not saying to be total isolationists . If we get attacked on the homeland or Commonwealths/Territories , declare war , wipe out the enemy and get the fuck out


If we are going to go after Turrists. Don't use a huge land army

[WRESTLINGFAN]

To clarify. If its a conventional attack by an actual country.

[spoon]

The plan is to overhaul the tax system. Kill the 16th amendment and gut these useless bureaucracies like the Dept of Education , IRS and Homeland security.

Bring our men home from Afghanistan and the other 700 military bases around the world.


I'm not saying to be total isolationists . If we get attacked on the homeland or Commonwealths/Territories , declare war , wipe out the enemy and get the fuck out


If we are going to go after Turrists. Don't use a huge land army

oh yah, useless Dept of Education...stopped reading right there.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Of course you did. Prior to 1979 children didn't go to school

It's people like you who would make crossing the street into a project

[Pitdoc]

Barack Obama said that if you make less than 250K your taxes will not go up one single dime.


Focus on the word taxes. Don't try to spin it for only income taxes


Translate that

I agree. EVERYBODY's taxes should have gone up in January .Obama is playing to the middle class, who ESPECIALLY want something for nothing. At the same time we should be concentrating on cutting spending...Like not making more tanks when we already have 3000 of the fuckers mothballed in the desert . That extra revenue should NOT be used to fund new programs or giveaways, but to pay down the goddamn deficit.

[Pitdoc]

As far as social security? It's nothing but the worlds biggest ponzi scheme.

That surplus your government overlords brag about are IOUs in the form of T Bonds.


The same government that can't even run a fucking railroad , is to be trusted in a quasi retirement fund?


I can't wait for Obamacare to fail, but then again it will bring all the people out of the woodwork squawking for single payer


The "IOUs" are there because BOTH sides of government are more than happy to "borrow " the money from a WELL-FUNDED pile of dough .

The "retirement fund" has always been there ,and until it started paying for a lot more baby boomers, with unfunded COLAs, was fine. But it's called an entitlement because people who have been PAYING for it for years are ENTITLED to use it. Don't say its a ponzi scheme. I assume you'd rather take care of yourself , but its the most STABLE form of a pension fund we have now in this country

[WRESTLINGFAN]

It's nothing but a scheme , why do you think the government is pushing for amnesty. It means a fresh supply of people who will be funding the next generation

SS if anything should be voluntary. I would love to have all the money taken from me given back with interest so I can manage my own retirement

[WRESTLINGFAN]

How is it the most stable ? Most of the debt we owe to ourselves

The federal reserve keeps monetizing the debt with its QE schemes

[foodcourtdruide]

I know I'll regret this, but...

Putting aside being pro/anti social security.. how is it a ponzi scheme? It's growth depends on the number of future taxpayers, right? How is that different than any other investing strategy? I think there's an interesting debate that can exist about Social Security. Should it be forced on us? Is investment transparent enough? But taking this incredibly complex debate, and summing it up in a bumper sticker is the biggest problem with politics in this county.

And, please, PLEASE if you are going to respond stating why social security is a ponzi scheme, state why it's a PONZI SCHEME not why YOU DON'T LIKE IT.

I will do you a favor and define ponzi scheme for you:
A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to its investors from their own money or the money paid by subsequent investors, rather than from profit earned by the individual or organization running the operation.

I submit to you that according to this statement, it is not a ponzi scheme because:
A. Social security is not a fraud. There are crazy detailed reports printed on where social security money goes and what investment plans are. If you have a few months, you can go through them here: http://www.ssa.gov/oact/. Also, contributors receive a pretty detailed quarterly report from the SSA. My point is that a ponzi scheme depends on lack of transparency to the investor, SS simple does not have this feature.
B. A ponzi scheme counts on more investors to stay afloat, but social security does the opposite. For social security to work, it would be best if the population remained steady. More people retiring at a specific time HURTS social security.

So, again, WF this is why you're not taken very seriously and you ultimately hurt the political party you support. Your critique of social security is so vapid and baseless, that the only explanation for the conclusion you've come to is that you heard it from someone whom you find influential who gets paid to make vapid and baseless statements to people like you.

[brettmojo]

I know I'll regret this, but...

Putting aside being pro/anti social security.. how is it a ponzi scheme? It's growth depends on the number of future taxpayers, right? How is that different than any other investing strategy? I think there's an interesting debate that can exist about Social Security. Should it be forced on us? Is investment transparent enough? But taking this incredibly complex debate, and summing it up in a bumper sticker is the biggest problem with politics in this county.

And, please, PLEASE if you are going to respond stating why social security is a ponzi scheme, state why it's a PONZI SCHEME not why YOU DON'T LIKE IT.

I will do you a favor and define ponzi scheme for you:
A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to its investors from their own money or the money paid by subsequent investors, rather than from profit earned by the individual or organization running the operation.

I submit to you that according to this statement, it is not a ponzi scheme because:
A. Social security is not a fraud. There are crazy detailed reports printed on where social security money goes and what investment plans are. If you have a few months, you can go through them here: http://www.ssa.gov/oact/. Also, contributors receive a pretty detailed quarterly report from the SSA. My point is that a ponzi scheme depends on lack of transparency to the investor, SS simple does not have this feature.
B. A ponzi scheme counts on more investors to stay afloat, but social security does the opposite. For social security to work, it would be best if the population remained steady. More people retiring at a specific time HURTS social security.

So, again, WF this is why you're not taken very seriously and you ultimately hurt the political party you support. Your critique of social security is so vapid and baseless, that the only explanation for the conclusion you've come to is that you heard it from someone whom you find influential who gets paid to make vapid and baseless statements to people like you.

Please. Using logic like this on WF is like trying to teach braille to a armless blind man.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I'll correct myself . It's worse than a ponzi scheme. Madoff never forced people to join his scheme . For the most part we are forced against our will to join a retirement plan. There are some exceptions like the Amish who have been exempt since the 1960s


Furthermore SS promises returns. Ponzi schemes also promise that. Also there are trick accounting measures to con people to believe their money is growing. Just because it's the federal government managing the money doesn't excuse that

The SS Fund has been raided by both parties in congress to pay for items in the general fund .


While a ponzi scheme eventually runs out, the government can print IOU 's which are promissory notes. You can promise that you won't drink anymore but those are nothing but words

About 50 years ago there were more than 10 people contributing to 1 recipient. That number is way down

SS had unintended consequences . The average lifespan of a recipient receiving SS was about 3 years. People today are receiving entitlements into their 80s


SS was also closet racist. The life expectancy of blacks in 1935 was less than the minimum age to collect


Did I mention it's government forcing you into a system ?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Please. Using logic like this on WF is like trying to teach braille to a armless blind man.


Wow you really are a gullible one

Madoff sent quarterly reports to his clients

I bet you believe that there really are 57 states

[WRESTLINGFAN]

That FDR was a benevolent one. His family became rich in the opium trade.


He really loved Americans, unless they were of Japanese background.

[foodcourtdruide]

I'll correct myself . It's worse than a ponzi scheme. Madoff never forced people to join his scheme . For the most part we are forced against our will to join a retirement plan. There are some exceptions like the Amish who have been exempt since the 1960s


Furthermore SS promises returns. Ponzi schemes also promise that. Also there are trick accounting measures to con people to believe their money is growing. Just because it's the federal government managing the money doesn't excuse that

The SS Fund has been raided by both parties in congress to pay for items in the general fund .


While a ponzi scheme eventually runs out, the government can print IOU 's which are promissory notes. You can promise that you won't drink anymore but those are nothing but words

About 50 years ago there were more than 10 people contributing to 1 recipient. That number is way down

SS had unintended consequences . The average lifespan of a recipient receiving SS was about 3 years. People today are receiving entitlements into their 80s


SS was also closet racist. The life expectancy of blacks in 1935 was less than the minimum age to collect


Did I mention it's government forcing you into a system ?

Ok, so it's in no-way like a ponzi scheme because it's involuntary.

And it is a ponzi scheme because it promises returns. So, every investment strategy in history is a ponzi scheme.

Your point about IOU's has nothing to do with the ponzi scheme claim.

Why do you need to make your argument in bumper sticker form? Please just say "social security is actually nothing like a ponzi scheme, but I dislike it because.." so I can go on with my day.

[foodcourtdruide]

Wow you really are a gullible one

Madoff sent quarterly reports to his clients

I bet you believe that there really are 57 states

They were FRAUDULENT, the ones SS send are NOT. Do you understand this? Seriously, WF.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The government commits fraud on a more massive level. Don't you understand that?

I'll throw in this one . $ 1 you contributed 20 years ago is worth less in today's numbers

SS is basically a program FDR tried to emulate that was in pre nazi Germany

[foodcourtdruide]

The government commits fraud on a more massive level. Don't you understand that?

I'll throw in this one . $ 1 you contributed 20 years ago is worth less in today's numbers

SS is basically a program FDR tried to emulate that was in pre nazi Germany

Nothing you've said here supports your ponzi scheme claim. Ponzi scheme's have nothing to do with depreciation. They are fraudulent schemes!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Ok, so it's in no-way like a ponzi scheme because it's involuntary.

And it is a ponzi scheme because it promises returns. So, every investment strategy in history is a ponzi scheme.

Your point about IOU's has nothing to do with the ponzi scheme claim.

Why do you need to make your argument in bumper sticker form? Please just say "social security is actually nothing like a ponzi scheme, but I dislike it because.." so I can go on with my day.


When trick accounting needs to be committed to keep it going it is a ponzi scheme. Money is being taken in to pay out to others using those accounting practices


If SS is so great than why is it mandatory ?


I believe a bone in Rib eye medium rare is excellent but if you are a vegan I won't force you to have a steak

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Nothing you've said here supports your ponzi scheme claim. Ponzi scheme's have nothing to do with depreciation. They are fraudulent schemes!



Again when money is being taken in and there are those accounting tricks, It is a ponzi scheme

Or should I call it a Roosevelt Scheme

[foodcourtdruide]

When trick accounting needs to be committed to keep it going it is a ponzi scheme. Money is being taken in to pay out to others using those accounting practices


If SS is so great than why is it mandatory ?


I believe a bone in Rib eye medium rare is excellent but if you are a vegan I won't force you to have a steak

Sorry, I didn't realize there was "trick accounting" in play. Do you have any other vague, meaningless, expressions that you'd like to use to support your belief that two things that have nothing to do with each other belong in the same conversation?

Even if there WAS "trick accounting" (which I seriously doubt you'd be qualified to conclude, I certainly am not), your argument against social security in-no-way defines social security as a ponzi scheme. I don't know how else to express this, I've defined a ponzi scheme for you, and the definition has nothing to do with "trick accounting". A ponzi scheme is flat-out FRAUD.

You're just using a vile term to garner some type of emotional response from people.

[foodcourtdruide]

Ok, I'm going to try something...

If someone uses "trick accounting" to pay less taxes, would you say they have committed a ponzi scheme against the federal government?

Your social security/ponzi scheme claim sounds just as insane.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I'm not trying to talk you down but do you actually believe there is no fraud? Look at Medicare fraud. There's fraud across the spectrum of the government which numbers in the tens of billions each year

Your government told you there were WMD in Iraq. The amount of lies Bush and Obama alone told is as high as Everest.

SS is worse than what Madoff ran. There are laws that allow clients to retrieve their losses albeit only pennies on the dollar.

If our system collapses, what happens? Do we sell Mt Rushmore to the Chinese ?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Ok, I'm going to try something...

If someone uses "trick accounting" to pay less taxes, would you say they have committed a ponzi scheme against the federal government?

Your social security/ponzi scheme claim sounds just as insane.

Their trick accounting didn't involve coercing other people to join them.


Now if they get caught in an audit, they go to jail or they get their bank accounts seized.


That's why the progressive income tax needs to be killed. People always find way to pay as little as possible

[foodcourtdruide]

I'm not trying to talk you down but do you actually believe there is no fraud? Look at Medicare fraud. There's fraud across the spectrum of the government which numbers in the tens of billions each year

Your government told you there were WMD in Iraq. The amount of lies Bush and Obama alone told is as high as Everest.

SS is worse than what Madoff ran. There are laws that allow clients to retrieve their losses albeit only pennies on the dollar.

If our system collapses, what happens? Do we sell Mt Rushmore to the Chinese ?

My argument with you is not about the government being good or bad, or about social security being good or bad. My only point is that social security is not a ponzi scheme. Your overarching mistrust of the government is not a reason social security is a ponzi scheme.

Using your logic, you can say: "the claim that there were WMD in Iraq is a ponzi scheme"

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I gave you the similarities btwn Madoff and SS in regards to how they operate

SS is one . It's bad

WMD was fraud in a different perspective

[Pitdoc]

Ok, so it's in no-way like a ponzi scheme because it's involuntary.

And it is a ponzi scheme because it promises returns. So, every investment strategy in history is a ponzi scheme.

Your point about IOU's has nothing to do with the ponzi scheme claim.

Why do you need to make your argument in bumper sticker form? Please just say "social security is actually nothing like a ponzi scheme, but I dislike it because.." so I can go on with my day.

ANY retirement plan promises a return for ones money.Its only the 401ks that you're gambling with . That was the conservative plan to have hedge fund managers & bankers play craps with people's money ( and they always got their vig) . SS works only if everybody is invested, but then everybody get their money back (sometimes more with depreciation, but even more now with people living longer.) Something has got to change , and the chained CPI was a start.

I know WF and his Tea Party friends want to manage their own money, but I'd trust the government to give something back ,as opposed to a bunch of Tea Partiers blowing it on meth hits , donations to Jeebus, & their 14th gun....

[WRESTLINGFAN]

ANY retirement plan promises a return for ones money.Its only the 401ks that you're gambling with . That was the conservative plan to have hedge fund managers & bankers play craps with people's money ( and they always got their vig) . SS works only if everybody is invested, but then everybody get their money back (sometimes more with depreciation, but even more now with people living longer.) Something has got to change , and the chained CPI was a start.

I know WF and his Tea Party friends want to manage their own money, but I'd trust the government to give something back ,as opposed to a bunch of Tea Partiers blowing it on meth hits , donations to Jeebus, & their 14th gun....


How nice of you just to make these broad generalizations . What's next? All blacks are on welfare ?

There are more than just 401k's. Just wanted to let you know that. You know competition ?

Tell me more about meth, trailer parks and preachers who use poisonous snakes








If you have so much faith in your govt maybe you should fork more over to them to "invest"

[spoon]

I know I'll regret this, but...

...

So, again, WF this is why you're not taken very seriously and you ultimately hurt the political party you support. Your critique of social security is so vapid and baseless, that the only explanation for the conclusion you've come to is that you heard it from someone whom you find influential who gets paid to make vapid and baseless statements to people like you.

both bolded parts are so true

sorry foody, but you're in the WF barrel now!

ha! :tongue:

[spoon]

Please. Using logic like this on WF is like trying to teach braille to a armless blind man.

he has toes...but I hear toes are just a fucking ponzi scheme put out there by the foot clan from TMNT

http://ih2.redbubble.net/image.12663721.1832/flat,550x550,075,f.u1.jpg

[spoon]

SS was also closet racist. The life expectancy of blacks in 1935 was less than the minimum age to collect


Did I mention it's government forcing you into a system ?

classic

:lol::clap:

[spoon]

Wow you really are a gullible one

Madoff sent quarterly reports to his clients

I bet you believe that there really are 57 states

way to tie it all together WF

your such a fucking stupid twat

[spoon]

That FDR was a benevolent one. His family became rich in the opium trade.


He really loved Americans, unless they were of Japanese background.

and here we stray AGAIN...to one of WF's parrot talking points

[spoon]

The government commits fraud on a more massive level. Don't you understand that?

I'll throw in this one . $ 1 you contributed 20 years ago is worth less in today's numbers

SS is basically a program FDR tried to emulate that was in pre nazi Germany

nice

nazi security

perfect

[spoon]

When trick accounting needs to be committed to keep it going it is a ponzi scheme. Money is being taken in to pay out to others using those accounting practices


If SS is so great than why is it mandatory ?


I believe a bone in Rib eye medium rare is excellent but if you are a vegan I won't force you to have a steak

just skid the middle man and scream like a mad man about anything government

oh wait

[WRESTLINGFAN]

both bolded parts are so true

sorry foody, but you're in the WF barrel now!

ha! :tongue:


As usual you add nothing to the discussion

And you're still a vitriolic twat

[spoon]

You're just using a vile term to garner some type of emotional response from people.

there in lies the lifeblood for anything WF, Fox and the extreme right or the government haters no matter what facts are present. labels right or wrong mislead the easily led and misled

[WRESTLINGFAN]

nice

nazi security

perfect

Did I post in German ? I said pre Nazi meaning before 1933

[WRESTLINGFAN]

there in lies the lifeblood for anything WF, Fox and the extreme right or the government haters no matter what facts are present. labels right or wrong mislead the easily led and misled



Fox Fox Fox


You're so pathetic

[spoon]

I'm not trying to talk you down but do you actually believe there is no fraud? Look at Medicare fraud. There's fraud across the spectrum of the government which numbers in the tens of billions each year

Your government told you there were WMD in Iraq. The amount of lies Bush and Obama alone told is as high as Everest.

SS is worse than what Madoff ran. There are laws that allow clients to retrieve their losses albeit only pennies on the dollar.

If our system collapses, what happens? Do we sell Mt Rushmore to the Chinese ?

you don't even understand that the fraud in medicare is done by health care professionals and organizations, NOT the government or "fraud across the spectrum of the government which numbers in the tens of billions each year".

my government is one hell of a wide sweeping call on the WMD call...much less tying in those two as similar overall. Fuck's sake man. and yah, to the chinese of course.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

How about fraud among the patients or the fact that some of these public workers milking disability. Latest example all those LIRR employees

Government programs like Medicare , Medicaid and SS feed the fraud machine

[spoon]

As usual you add nothing to the discussion

...

the irony of that statement is HILARIOUS!

[spoon]

Fox Fox Fox


You're so pathetic

you stop doing it, I'll stop calling it out

[spoon]

How about fraud among the patients or the fact that some of these public workers milking disability. Latest example all those LIRR employees

Government programs like Medicare , Medicaid and SS feed the fraud machine

now it's government employee fraud

nice twist fucko

fail

[WRESTLINGFAN]

you stop doing it, I'll stop calling it out



You accuse me of being a broken record so now you're being called out.


Do I ever say msnbc 6 million times ?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

now it's government employee fraud

nice twist fucko

fail

Bigger fraud when they commit it.

[spoon]

You accuse me of being a broken record so now you're being called out.


Do I ever say msnbc 6 million times ?

probably bc I'm not linked to it in ANY way

zero

you parrot shit all fucking day long and go to gems like FDR and prison camps, alaskan octogenarian racial slur posts like fucking clockwork to put out stupid stupid fucking points. oh and of course your SS ponzi scheme bullshit too. so many classics, too little time to type

[spoon]

Bigger fraud when they commit it.

sure thing wf

[WRESTLINGFAN]

probably bc I'm not linked to it in ANY way

zero

you parrot shit all fucking day long and go to gems like FDR and prison camps, alaskan octogenarian racial slur posts like fucking clockwork to put out stupid stupid fucking points. oh and of course your SS ponzi scheme bullshit too. so many classics, too little time to type

How the hell am I linked to Fox? You sound ridiculous.


You just parrot cheap talking points like GOP and Fox.


Am I lying about FDR ? Your comments would hold weight if you had any substance

[spoon]

How the hell am I linked to Fox? You sound ridiculous.


You just parrot cheap talking points like GOP and Fox.


Am I lying about FDR ? Your comments would hold weight if you had any substance

read my post with Fox in it and again and TRY HARDER to comprehend the tie in

just sound out the words fuckwad

and lying? who said that, nobody here. It's just it has no "substance" as you'd say to ANYTHING you are talking about outside of your bullshit tie ins and asshole angles as if they prove a fucking thing...and you repeat these things fucking weekly with a new stupid twist on something in the news.

you're an assclown

[spoon]

oh and do tell where my parroted talking points are like the GOP and Fox

basically you just admitted to doing it, now back up your fucking claim I do it

this ought to take HOURS for you, much less be hilarious no matter how fast and what you post

show me WF, go search

hurry up and search

good fucking luck

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I comprehend clearly. You use cheap words like Fox. You are a broken record. When you get called out you spin it and turn it into a massive project


You would be perfect in the federal government

[WRESTLINGFAN]

oh and do tell where my parroted talking points are like the GOP and Fox

basically you just admitted to doing it, now back up your fucking claim I do it

this ought to take HOURS for you, much less be hilarious no matter how fast and what you post

show me WF, go search

hurry up and search

good fucking luck

Fox News. GOP

You constantly keep making these claims. That's all the backup I need. Enough said

[WRESTLINGFAN]

read my post with Fox in it and again and TRY HARDER to comprehend the tie in

just sound out the words fuckwad

and lying? who said that, nobody here. It's just it has no "substance" as you'd say to ANYTHING you are talking about outside of your bullshit tie ins and asshole angles as if they prove a fucking thing...and you repeat these things fucking weekly with a new stupid twist on something in the news.

you're an assclown


It all ties in. That myth of FDR being such a benevolent leader is nothing but a fucking rouse designed for suckers to gobble up

[spoon]

I comprehend clearly. You use cheap words like Fox. You are a broken record. When you get called out you spin it and turn it into a massive project


You would be perfect in the federal government

nah, you're just an idiot

[spoon]

Fox News. GOP

You constantly keep making these claims. That's all the backup I need. Enough said

no, it's not

[spoon]

It all ties in. That myth of FDR being such a benevolent leader is nothing but a fucking rouse designed for suckers to gobble up

it only ties in in your fucking warped head

not ONE person even brought up FDR, much less this myth for the 40 fucking times you tie it in...NOBODY

also, stop putting yourself on some fucking ridiculous pedestal, as if you are the righter of wrongs that this board just assumes, but NEVER ONCE put out there

it's just BS that you tie in to make shitty points less visible and more fucking convoluted to say the least

[WRESTLINGFAN]

It does tie in. When was the new deal and SS started? Not under TR's presidency

Im not here promoting how benevolent the government is. I can't restrict your liberty


Complain all you want about me. I'm not going to raise your taxes

[spoon]

Squawk!

[SonOfSmeagol]

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/250x250/37539190.jpg

[spoon]

http://daily-grind.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/0905_here_You-Are-Here.jpg

[Syd]

It all ties in. That myth of FDR being such a benevolent leader is nothing but a fucking rouse designed for suckers to gobble up

FDR presided over the largest expansion of the middle class ever and was on the verge of pushing America into a social democracy. His threat to capitalism was so great that there was one conspiracy to stage a coup and one constitutional amendment preventing him from being re-elected.

So, yeah, he was a pretty benevolent leader.

[SonOfSmeagol]

FDR presided over the largest expansion of the middle class ever and was on the verge of pushing America into a social democracy. His threat to capitalism was so great that there was one conspiracy to stage a coup and one constitutional amendment preventing him from being re-elected.

So, yeah, he was a pretty benevolent leader.

FDR was a good pres but 4 terms is prolly enough. didn't dying prevent him from being re-elected? anyway, it'd be good to see a candidate for pres come in and promise only one term.

[Dude!]

So, yeah, he was a pretty benevolent leader.

unless you happened to be
Japanese American...
or a Jew in Europe

[WRESTLINGFAN]

unless you happened to be
Japanese American...
or a Jew in Europe



Or black in the US

[Syd]

FDR was a good pres but 4 terms is prolly enough. didn't dying prevent him from being re-elected? anyway, it'd be good to see a candidate for pres come in and promise only one term.

Probably enough for who? The mechanism for removing someone from office via voting still remains.

unless you happened to be
Japanese American...
or a Jew in Europe

Or a Roma, or an Italian in America, or a German-American. Sorry they didn't teach you that in school, but mass genocide of Roma happened and Americans of German descent along with resident aliens from Italy were interned as well. Might want to crack open a history book from time to time instead of picking up statements from the crawler at the bottom of Fox News. Lots of other shit went down that they haven't blamed a Democrat for.

Read up on this some:
http://wesscholar.wesleyan.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1058&context=etd_hon_theses

That's pretty much how shit-scared oligarchs were of FDR.

and on the Roma:
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005219

and tangentially related, one of the biggest battles in the forgotten civil war in America:
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_battle_of_blair_mountain_20120716/

anyway like I said, if you're going to parrot some shit that gets bloviated by Fox at least have the decency to read up on some of the other big stuff that happened during the same time period. It's embarrassing for us all.

[Dude!]

Probably enough for who? The mechanism for removing someone from office via voting still remains.



Or a Roma, or an Italian in America, or a German-American. Sorry they didn't teach you that in school, but mass genocide of Roma happened and Americans of German descent along with resident aliens from Italy were interned as well. Might want to crack open a history book from time to time instead of picking up statements from the crawler at the bottom of Fox News. Lots of other shit went down that they haven't blamed a Democrat for.

Read up on this some:
http://wesscholar.wesleyan.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1058&context=etd_hon_theses

That's pretty much how shit-scared oligarchs were of FDR.

and on the Roma:
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005219

and tangentially related, one of the biggest battles in the forgotten civil war in America:
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_battle_of_blair_mountain_20120716/

anyway like I said, if you're going to parrot some shit that gets bloviated by Fox at least have the decency to read up on some of the other big stuff that happened during the same time period. It's embarrassing for us all.

wow..the ho uses moveon.org
as a source...yeah, that's not embarrassing

thanks for confirming, though,
that FDR was much more awful
than most people realize

[hanso]

You're just using a vile term to garner some type of emotional response from people.

there in lies the lifeblood for anything WF, Fox and the extreme right or the government haters no matter what facts are present. labels right or wrong mislead the easily led and misled

This chat was about taxes for the most part. What came to mind for me was parrot right wing rant that X % do not pay income tax

The average yearly salary after taxes for a fast food workers is 12k. Now think how many there must be across the country.

Lets tax these workers even more sure wtg

[Syd]

wow..the ho uses moveon.org
as a source...yeah, that's not embarrassing

thanks for confirming, though,
that FDR was much more awful
than most people realize

Counterpoint: He stopped the second civil war in America.

[SonOfSmeagol]

This chat was about taxes for the most part. What came to mind for me was parrot right wing rant that X % do not pay income tax

The average yearly salary after taxes for a fast food workers is 12k. Now think how many there must be across the country.

Lets tax these workers even more sure wtg

fact is it's in the 40s% and growing, many 10s of millions of "taxpayers".

and the bottom 40% are getting more back from the govt than they pay in taxes due to credits and stuff, many even over and above payroll taxes they pay.

I would have no problem with the 12K guy paying something (cause remember, they're not now) even if it were only 10 bucks a month. I'm sure the gov't could use it, no? why shouldn't they have skin in the game. the top 10% now pay 70% of the taxes, and the bottom 50 like 2 or 3.

parrot right wing rant, indeed. now, do resist the urge to go cherrypick the interwebs to meet your hyperpartisan needs.


http://taxfoundation.org/slideshow/putting-face-americas-tax-returns

[Syd]

fact is it's in the 40s% and growing, many 10s of millions of "taxpayers".

and the bottom 40% are getting more back from the govt than they pay in taxes due to credits and stuff, many even over and above payroll taxes they pay.

I would have no problem with the 12K guy paying something (cause remember, they're not now) even if it were only 10 bucks a month. I'm sure the gov't could use it, no? why shouldn't they have skin in the game. the top 10% now pay 70% of the taxes, and the bottom 50 like 2 or 3.

The top 10% control 80% of the wealth in America, so, is that fair as well? The only reason they pay so much in taxes is because they're the only ones with real money. Everyone else is scraping out a meek living because we're in a second gilded age with capital having a gross imbalance of power over labor.

The EITC is a prime driver of poverty in the South to be certain but it's how those states have operated for a long, long time -- depending on cheap labor.

The people that have no income tax footprint are <$30K a year for a family of four. 75% of the people who pay no income tax make under $30k a year as well.

7% of the nation pays no income nor payroll tax but otherwise works -- these people make <$20k a year. Your WalMart workers, etc, are those people. In general though, low income workers pay the most as a % share of income to payroll taxes because payroll taxes are continually capped lower and lower by virtue of the people with money having more of a say in writing tax law.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

This could end if the 16th was repealed.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

There is no real money. It's just paper disguised as federal reserve notes.


That $ 1 bill is basically an interest free loan to the fed

[hanso]

The top 10% control 80% of the wealth in America, so, is that fair as well? The only reason they pay so much in taxes is because they're the only ones with real money. Everyone else is scraping out a meek living because we're in a second gilded age with capital having a gross imbalance of power over labor.

The EITC is a prime driver of poverty in the South to be certain but it's how those states have operated for a long, long time -- depending on cheap labor.

The people that have no income tax footprint are <$30K a year for a family of four. 75% of the people who pay no income tax make under $30k a year as well.

7% of the nation pays no income nor payroll tax but otherwise works -- these people make <$20k a year. Your WalMart workers, etc, are those people. In general though, low income workers pay the most as a % share of income to payroll taxes because payroll taxes are continually capped lower and lower by virtue of the people with money having more of a say in writing tax law.

I doubt the average Wallmart worker makes over 20k

Everything is set up to favor the wealthy.. banking,credit, justice, and on and on.

How is that just the South? Are not your Wallmarts and fast food joints all over?

[Syd]

I doubt the average Wallmart worker makes over 20k

Everything is set up to favor the wealthy.. banking,credit, justice, and on and on.

How is that just the South? Are not your Wallmarts and fast food joints all over?

http://www.ilsr.org/retail-maps-graphs/

WalMart and other racing-to-the-bottom retailers are primarily in the south, fast food stores are primarily in the north. However there are a lot more WalMart workers, and the South has sub-standard living conditions in general so it skews who gets the lion's share of the benefit from EITC to the south.

http://www.salon.com/2013/02/19/southern_poverty_pimps/

http://www.businessinsider.com/wal-mart-relies-on-taxpayers-to-subsidize-low-wages-2013-6

etc

basically it's in the North's interest to eliminate EITC and raise the federal minimum wage, and it is in the South's interest to maintain EITC and keep federal minimum wage low as well as continue to depend on anti-union tactics along with Medicaid and other social safety nets to keep people placated and unorganized.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Frank Lautenberg dead at age 89

How does it work in NJ? Is there a special election or does Christie make the appointment

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Just found out Christie makes the appointment

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I doubt the average Wallmart worker makes over 20k

Everything is set up to favor the wealthy.. banking,credit, justice, and on and on.

How is that just the South? Are not your Wallmarts and fast food joints all over?

That's when you have 75,000 pages of complex tax laws. More ways to scam, scheme , and avoid paying. The tax system is beneficial to the super rich, corporations who are cozy with government and the poor

It's a mortal sin to ever want to overhaul and simplify the tax system. Keep the gravy train of favoritism , and perks to selected classes and DC flushed with opulence

[hanso]

http://www.ilsr.org/retail-maps-graphs/

WalMart and other racing-to-the-bottom retailers are primarily in the south, fast food stores are primarily in the north. However there are a lot more WalMart workers, and the South has sub-standard living conditions in general so it skews who gets the lion's share of the benefit from EITC to the south.

http://www.salon.com/2013/02/19/southern_poverty_pimps/

http://www.businessinsider.com/wal-mart-relies-on-taxpayers-to-subsidize-low-wages-2013-6

etc

basically it's in the North's interest to eliminate EITC and raise the federal minimum wage, and it is in the South's interest to maintain EITC and keep federal minimum wage low as well as continue to depend on anti-union tactics along with Medicaid and other social safety nets to keep people placated and unorganized.

Retail overall can't be paying much more same as the overall food industry. I never heard about this EITC or pay scale/ living conditions demographics divide. To me it's all about the lack of a living wage across the board and that knows no boundaries.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

IRS spent over 50 million on lavish parties and conferences including a Star Trek and Gilligans Island theme

Yup isn't big government great?

[Syd]

Retail overall can't be paying much more same as the overall food industry. I never heard about this EITC or pay scale/ living conditions demographics divide. To me it's all about the lack of a living wage across the board and that knows no boundaries.

The best thing is Friedman, the father of modern American economics (i.e. the Chicago school) argued for a negative income tax for the specific purpose of creating a living wage and workers who would earn enough money to prevent the need for the bulk of the social safety net.

Instead, it's more profitable to have the EITC -- have the upper middle class/middle class/petit bourgeoisie pay for the lower class to live in order for the upper/capitalist class/bourgeosie to make more money as well as trap labor into a poverty cycle of dependence.

IRS spent over 50 million on lavish parties and conferences including a Star Trek and Gilligans Island theme

Yup isn't big government great?

They're job creators

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Job creators using tax dollars

Crony capitalism

[Syd]

I think the greatest football coach of all time, Babe Ruth, put it best when he said the best example of capitalism is a not-for-profit government entity

[epo]

Just found out Christie makes the appointment

This appointment could be tricky for Christie if he plans to run in 2016.

[SonOfSmeagol]

I think the greatest football coach of all time, Babe Ruth, put it best when he said the best example of capitalism is a not-for-profit government entity

Not sure what football team ruth coached, but he made the equivalent of like $1M/yr in today's money from capitalism. So theres that anyway...

[hanso]

Can we add SCOTUS to this? Thought it already was.

Supreme Court Okays Warrantless DNA Sampling

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/06/supreme-court-dna-fourth-amendment-warrantless

Police can force suspects arrested for serious crimes to give DNA samples, a divided Supreme Court ruled, 5 votes to 4, on Monday

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Don't agree with the majority ruling. This opens up a slippery slope of what the police think is a serious crime. Do our bodies belong to us or the government ?

I'm surprised Scalia dissented.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

This appointment could be tricky for Christie if he plans to run in 2016.



It will definitely hurt him in the primaries if he appoints Corey Booker

Booker is open to running next year , I think he can win it outright in 2014.

[Dude!]

This appointment could be tricky for Christie if he plans to run in 2016.

not if he appoints Tom Kean
everyone loves him

[WRESTLINGFAN]

More from the most honest open and transparent administration ever


http://news.yahoo.com/top-political-appointees-secret-email-accounts-110629957.html


Any way possible to help prevent paper trails and accountability

So is Sebellius' alter ego Cruella@hhs.gov ?

[Earlshog]

not if he appoints Tom Kean
everyone loves him

:lol:

[epo]

It will definitely hurt him in the primaries if he appoints Corey Booker

Booker is open to running next year , I think he can win it outright in 2014.

Smart punt by Christie.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Harry Belafonte wants us to become like Venezuela

He can really tally the bananas. The old coot called for Obama to jail his opponents

[keithy_19]

Smart punt by Christie.

I agree.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Pay up Jerseyites

It's going to cost you 25 million for the election

Christie's response " I don't care how much it costs and I don't care"