Obama - Worst President Ever?

[Furtherman]

Keynesian economists?

What does Kenya have to do with this?!

[A.J.]

Keynesian economists?

What does Kenya have to do with this?!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Y38IW_SOQIw/Rkus2bso8SI/AAAAAAAABVA/MoG5sEWDSLU/s320/vlcsnap-74167.png

[Jujubees2]

What does Kenya have to do with this?!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Y38IW_SOQIw/Rkus2bso8SI/AAAAAAAABVA/MoG5sEWDSLU/s320/vlcsnap-74167.png

What does Ralph Kramden have to do with this?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I was listening to Bill Press this morning and one caller after another said that if the tax cuts for the rich are even extended they would wash their hands of Obama and would not vote for him in '12

How do you Obama supporters feel about that? Is this the last straw?

[Serpico1103]

I was listening to Bill Press this morning and one caller after another said that if the tax cuts for the rich are even extended they would wash their hands of Obama and would not vote for him in '12

How do you Obama supporters feel about that? Is this the last straw?

Not sure what your "Obama supporter" qualifications are, but:

It would be disappointing. How can they say they won't vote for him, when they don't know what the other options are? I wonder if the radio show was putting up callers they knew were going to say that. :wallbash:

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Not sure what your "Obama supporter" qualifications are, but:

It would be disappointing. How can they say they won't vote for him, when they don't know what the other options are? I wonder if the radio show was putting up callers they knew were going to say that. :wallbash:

Maybe sit out for the election?

I know its a longshot but I wouldn't be surprised if Hil' pulled a Teddy Kennedy. Sure shes Sec of State but there is still some old wounds, and after all shes a Clinton deep down she wants the oval office. In '16 she might be too old.

[Serpico1103]

Maybe sit out for the election?

I know its a longshot but I wouldn't be surprised if Hil' pulled a Teddy Kennedy. Sure shes Sec of State but there is still some old wounds, and after all shes a Clinton deep down she wants the oval office. In '16 she might be too old.

Anyone saying how they will vote now- moron. Anyone calling a radio show, saying how they will vote- double moron. Anyone believing it is indicative of anything- WF.

Who knows what will happen. If Republicans put a moderate up, he will probably win. If they put another nutcase up, they will probably lose.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Anyone saying how they will vote now- moron. Anyone calling a radio show, saying how they will vote- double moron. Anyone believing it is indicative of anything- WF.

Who knows what will happen. If Republicans put a moderate up, he will probably win. If they put another nutcase up, they will probably lose.

If the economy is still in the hole, and his popularity is in the low to mid 40's. He can be primaried and Hillary would be most likely. While thats not a 100% guarantee, never doubt a Clinton.

[Barnaby Jones]

If the economy is still in the hole, and his popularity is in the low to mid 40's. He can be primaried and Hillary would be most likely. While thats not a 100% guarantee, never doubt a Clinton.

That's nuts! I know you believe in the Clintons as cartoon villains, but low 40's is nowhere near enough for someone from within the party to try and snatch away the nomination from an incumbent president! It doesn't matter what here desires would be; it simply wouldn't work and there's no way she's that stupid! Obama's ratings would have to be at least at Bush's worst for her to even have a chance of doing anything besides splitting the Democratic vote and giving the Republican nomination an easy jog to the White House! Think about it for 2 seconds, WF!

[Syd]

I was listening to Bill Press this morning and one caller after another said that if the tax cuts for the rich are even extended they would wash their hands of Obama and would not vote for him in '12

How do you Obama supporters feel about that? Is this the last straw?

Totally goddamn bail on it. There's no such thing as trickle down economics -- you tax the fuck out of the wealthy instead of running massive deficits or shifting the tax burden on the lower/middle classes. The wealth distribution in the US is totally out of whack -- it's as bad as most South American countries. It's time someone gets to fixing it.

[Dude!]

The wealth distribution in the US is totally out of whack -- It's time someone gets to fixing it.

it would be "fixed"
if the lazy-ass dregs
at the bottom would
finish school and
show a little initiative

[Syd]

it would be "fixed"
if the lazy-ass dregs
at the bottom would
finish school and
show a little initiative

It's more than that -- the bottom 80% of households in the US (median household income of below $75-90k or so) only own 15% of the wealth in the nation, while the top 20% households in the US ($75-90k and up) own the remainder, with the top 1% (over $250k and up) own 34.6% of the wealth in the US.

numbers and figgers from http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html

[epo]

That's nuts! I know you believe in the Clintons as cartoon villains, but low 40's is nowhere near enough for someone from within the party to try and snatch away the nomination from an incumbent president! It doesn't matter what here desires would be; it simply wouldn't work and there's no way she's that stupid! Obama's ratings would have to be at least at Bush's worst for her to even have a chance of doing anything besides splitting the Democratic vote and giving the Republican nomination an easy jog to the White House! Think about it for 2 seconds, WF!

I find suggestions of HRC to be "potentially running" to be total amateur hour thinking from the right. If people only knew the organization that Obama has in place at the DNC to push forward for 2012, they'd shut up quick.

[Dude!]

If people only knew the organization that Obama has in place at the DNC to push forward for 2012, they'd shut up quick.

your predicting skills SUCK

2008: "Republicans have lost
the congress for a generation"

2010: "Feingold for the win by 2%"
(only 9 points off there)

if you think Hillary won't run
it's a safe bet she will

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I find suggestions of HRC to be "potentially running" to be total amateur hour thinking from the right. If people only knew the organization that Obama has in place at the DNC to push forward for 2012, they'd shut up quick.

Stick to your predictions about the Brewers.

[epo]

Stick to your predictions about the Brewers.

It's funny how only hard conservatives suggest the possibility and not those on the left.

[A.J.]

What does Ralph Kramden have to do with this?

"The goddamn Germans got nothing to with it"??

Reminded me of that scene.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

It's funny how only hard conservatives suggest the possibility and not those on the left.



A better primary would be Kucinich vs Obama your side would go apeshit even more

[epo]

A better primary would be Kucinich vs Obama your side would go apeshit even more

Nah. We're just getting popcorn for the Palin v Romney primary. The tea party against the establishment, could I ask for more?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Nah. We're just getting popcorn for the Palin v Romney primary. The tea party against the establishment, could I ask for more?

If the GOP decides to go for Palin, they deserve to lose worse than Mondale did in ' 84

[epo]

If the GOP decides to go for Palin, they deserve to lose worse than Mondale did in ' 84

I was originally wrong about the intensity of the Tea Party, but now I really don't know if the GOP can stop them.

[A.J.]

I was originally wrong about the intensity of the Tea Party, but now I really don't know if the GOP can stop them.

If it will drive the Bible-thumpers out of the party, I'm all for it.

[epo]

If it will drive the Bible-thumpers out of the party, I'm all for it.

Wouldn't you think that now they've been fired up via the Tea Party, that the bible thumpers will either take over the GOP or they'll leave it to start a new party?

[Pitdoc]

Totally goddamn bail on it. There's no such thing as trickle down economics -- you tax the fuck out of the wealthy instead of running massive deficits or shifting the tax burden on the lower/middle classes. The wealth distribution in the US is totally out of whack -- it's as bad as most South American countries. It's time someone gets to fixing it.

It's amazing that all this arguing is for a FOUR PERCENT tax increase for the wealthy .With all the screaming the conservatives are doing, you'd think it was 25%. But ask yourself, where are the jobs that Orange John promises the high end cuts will create if they haven't created any in the last 7 years they've been in place (trickle down my ass) Of course ,the deficits would go down even further if ALL the tax cuts were allowed to expire, but I know , he has to placate the middle class ( and yes, I am advocating a tax increase for myself)

[foodcourtdruide]

It's amazing that all this arguing is for a FOUR PERCENT tax increase for the wealthy .With all the screaming the conservatives are doing, you'd think it was 25%. But ask yourself, where are the jobs that Orange John promises the high end cuts will create if they haven't created any in the last 7 years they've been in place (trickle down my ass) Of course ,the deficits would go down even further if ALL the tax cuts were allowed to expire, but I know , he has to placate the middle class ( and yes, I am advocating a tax increase for myself)

Great point. I can't believe people still think "trickle down economics" works.

[Jujubees2]

Great point. I can't believe people still think "trickle down economics" works.

http://afteramerica.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/george-bush-sr.jpg

It's voodoo economics I tell ya'

[Recyclerz]

http://afteramerica.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/george-bush-sr.jpg

It's voodoo economics I tell ya'

http://www.africavoodoo.com/Voodoofds.jpg


You gotta problem with that?

[Dude!]

http://www.africavoodoo.com/Voodoofds.jpg


You gotta problem with that?


you put that in
the wrong thread


i'll fix it for you

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Obama not so good at the G-20


From those racist teabagging rednecks at salon.



http://www.salon.com/news/globalization/?story=/news/feature/2010/11/12/the_failure_of_the_g_20_summit

[underdog]

Obama not so good at the G-20


From those racist teabagging rednecks at salon.



http://www.salon.com/news/globalization/?story=/news/feature/2010/11/12/the_failure_of_the_g_20_summit

Wait, are people blaming Obama for the G-20 now?

And the G-20 was in fucking June. This is retarded.

[Dudeman]

Wait, are people blaming Obama for the G-20 now?

And the G-20 was in fucking June. This is retarded.

no the g-20 summit that just occurred in south korea. while it was considered a failure for lack of action on the part of multiple countries and the decreased power of the US was due to globalization, the current state of the us economy, and starting unjustified wars, foxnews et al want to blame it on obama because it is good for their sloagans and surface level treatment of current events

[underdog]

no the g-20 summit that just occurred in south korea. while it was considered a failure for lack of action on the part of multiple countries and the decreased power of the US was due to globalization, the current state of the us economy, and starting unjustified wars, foxnews et al want to blame it on obama because it is good for their sloagans and surface level treatment of current events

How often do they meet? The G-20 was definitely also in June in Toronto.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

no the g-20 summit that just occurred in south korea. while it was considered a failure for lack of action on the part of multiple countries and the decreased power of the US was due to globalization, the current state of the us economy, and starting unjustified wars, foxnews et al want to blame it on obama because it is good for their sloagans and surface level treatment of current events

Does everything in the universe circle around Fox news > Its like a broken record. I post an article from Salon.com far from being anti Obama and you reference Fox.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Wait, are people blaming Obama for the G-20 now?

And the G-20 was in fucking June. This is retarded.

I think the one in June is the G 8

[underdog]

I think the one in June is the G 8

The G-8 was in northern Ontario. The G-20 was in Toronto at the end of June and turned this city into a police state for 3 days. They passed a law in Ontario allowing the police to detain anyone without a reason for the weekend.

[Dudeman]

The G-8 was in northern Ontario. The G-20 was in Toronto at the end of June and turned this city into a police state for 3 days. They passed a law in Ontario allowing the police to detain anyone without a reason for the weekend.

Seriously, check out wikipedia or Google, they will answer all of your questions... here are the G-20 dates and locations

Date Host country Host city
1st November 2008 United States Washington, D.C.
2nd April 2009 United Kingdom London
3rd September 2009 United States Pittsburgh
4th June 2010 Canada Toronto
5th November 2010 South Korea Seoul
6th November 2011 France Cannes
7th 2012 Mexico

[underdog]

Seriously, check out wikipedia or Google, they will answer all of your questions... here are the G-20 dates and locations

Date Host country Host city
1st November 2008 United States Washington, D.C.
2nd April 2009 United Kingdom London
3rd September 2009 United States Pittsburgh
4th June 2010 Canada Toronto
5th November 2010 South Korea Seoul
6th November 2011 France Cannes
7th 2012 Mexico

What a random fucking schedule.

[A.J.]

Washington Post: One and done: To be a great president, Obama should not seek reelection in 2012 (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/12/AR2010111202846.html?nav=hcmodule)

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Washington Post: One and done: To be a great president, Obama should not seek reelection in 2012 (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/12/AR2010111202846.html?nav=hcmodule)

His massive ego will prevent him from bowing out. Plus Axelrod is going back to Chicago in early 2011 to work on the reelection bid

[Barnaby Jones]

His massive ego will prevent him from bowing out.

Are you high?!?!? What president "bows out" unless they're George Washington, Johnson or Nixon?

[A.J.]

Are you high?!?!? What president "bows out" unless they're George Washington, Johnson or Nixon?

James K. Polk.

[Barnaby Jones]

James K. Polk.

He was dying, dammit!!! Though he definitely is a model for a president getting shit done in only one term! WF would be terrified of him, though!!!

[foodcourtdruide]

Seriously, check out wikipedia or Google, they will answer all of your questions... here are the G-20 dates and locations

Date Host country Host city
1st November 2008 United States Washington, D.C.
2nd April 2009 United Kingdom London
3rd September 2009 United States Pittsburgh
4th June 2010 Canada Toronto
5th November 2010 South Korea Seoul
6th November 2011 France Cannes
7th 2012 Mexico

I love the locations. The most important, beautiful and well known cities int he world. London, Washington D.C., Seoul..... and Pittsburgh... Pittsburgh.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I love the locations. The most important, beautiful and well known cities int he world. London, Washington D.C., Seoul..... and Pittsburgh... Pittsburgh.

6 superbowl wins. Not too shabby :clap:

[Willmore]

6 superbowl wins. Not too shabby :clap:

What makes it Super?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

What makes it Super?

With a team that had Lynn Swann, Franco Harris and Terry Bradshaw it was super. And I'm not even a Steelers fan

[Willmore]

With a team that had Lynn Swann, Franco Harris and Terry Bradshaw it was super. And I'm not even a Steelers fan

I meant what makes a Superbowl Super? It's not even a bowl, it's a crappy football statue.

[StanUpshaw]

I meant what makes a Superbowl Super? It's not even a bowl, it's a crappy football statue.

Blame those faggots in Pasadena. They started the whole thing.

[Zorro]

I meant what makes a Superbowl Super? It's not even a bowl, it's a crappy football statue.

The Stadium is a bowl

[Willmore]

The Stadium is a bowl

From wiki:

The Super Bowl was created as part of the merger agreement between the National Football League (NFL) and its competitive rival, the American Football League (AFL). After its inception in 1920, the NFL fended off several rival leagues before the AFL began play in 1960. The intense competitive war for players and fans led to serious merger talks between the two leagues in 1966. According to NFL Films President Steve Sabol, then NFL Commissioner Pete Rozelle wanted to call the game "The Big One".[7] During the discussions to iron out the details, one of the AFL's founders and Kansas City Chiefs owner Lamar Hunt had jokingly referred to the proposed inter league championship as the "Super Bowl". [8] Lamar Hunt, who died in December 2006, coined the term in the late 1960s after watching his kids play with a Super Ball, the creation of toy manufacturer Wham-O. The small, round ball is currently on display at the Pro Football Hall of Fame in Canton, Ohio. The name was consistent with post-season college football games, which had long been known as "bowl games". Hunt only meant his suggested name to be a stopgap until a better one could be found; nevertheless, the name "Super Bowl" became permanent. Tickets for the games played in 1967, 1968, and 1969 were printed with the title "World Championship Game".[9]

That's the stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard.

The AFL final is called "The Grand Final."
Now that's a proper name. The Super Bowl sounds like something a caterer offers on their menu.

[StanUpshaw]

-bowl is the football equivalent of -gate.

I hope we will have a scandal at the Super Bowl and they will call it Bowlgate.


Or better yet...a MURDER at the Super Bowl

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Nw hes going to Europe with his tail between his legs after crashing and burning in Asia. Sorry Barry, this ain't 2008. The Europeans have their own problems



http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6AE3GV20101115

[Willmore]

Nw hes going to Europe with his tail between his legs after crashing and burning in Asia. Sorry Barry, this ain't 2008. The Europeans have their own problems



http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6AE3GV20101115

He brokered a nuclear treaty with Russia and the GOP is not signing it. Yup, it's all Obama's fault.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Don't fuck with George. He's not happy

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/ns/msnbc_tv-countdown_with_keith_olbermann/

[Dude!]

Don't fuck with George. He's not happy

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/ns/msnbc_tv-countdown_with_keith_olbermann/


he is an awful, awful person
just dreadful

Olberman called him a
"Hungarian-American"
he's not...he's a
"Hungarian-Jew" who
has no place in
American politics, nor in
America for that matter

[torker]

he is an awful, awful person
just dreadful

Olberman called him a
"Hungarian-American"
he's not...he's a
"Hungarian-Jew" who
has no place in
American politics, nor in
America for that matter
<div style="float: left; margin-right: 10px;"><embed src="http://media.entertonement.com/embed/OpenEntPlayer.swf" id="1_56b80046_f2c2_11df_a8fa_00219b9a75f0" name="1_56b80046_f2c2_11df_a8fa_00219b9a75f0" flashvars="auto_play=false&clip_pid=jqfqvpzdyl&e=&id=1_56b80046_f2c2_11df_a8fa_00219b9a75f0&skin_pid=wfxswdnlkf" width="300" height="30" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" allowscriptaccess="always" wmode="transparent"></embed><div id="1_56b80046_f2c2_11df_a8fa_00219b9a75f0_anchor" style="font-size: 8px; color: black; text-decoration: none; display: block; text-align: center;"><a href="http://www.entertonement.com/clips/jqfqvpzdyl--Power-of-Schwartz-Spaceballs-Mel-Brooks-President-Skroob-Yogurt" style="font-size: 8px; color: black;" target="_blank">Power of Schwartz sound clip</a> &nbsp;<a href="http://www.entertonement.com/collections/6068/Spaceballs?ht_link=1_56b80046_f2c2_11df_a8fa_00219 b9a75f0" style="font-size: 8px; color: black;" target="_blank">Spaceballs sound clips</a></div><img alt="Power of Schwartz sound clip" border="0" height="0" src="http://www.entertonement.com/widgets/img/clip/jqfqvpzdyl/1/1_56b80046_f2c2_11df_a8fa_00219b9a75f0/blank.gif" style="visibility: hidden; width: 0px; height: 0px; margin:0; padding:0; float:right" width="0" /></div>

[WRESTLINGFAN]

he is an awful, awful person
just dreadful

Olberman called him a
"Hungarian-American"
he's not...he's a
"Hungarian-Jew" who
has no place in
American politics, nor in
America for that matter

I hope he plucks someone to the left of Obama to primary him and see an internal war for the Dems.

I will have my popcorn ready for a Kucinich Obama primary

[Dude!]

I hope he plucks someone to the left of Obama to primary him and see an internal war for the Dems.

I will have my popcorn ready for a Kucinich Obama primary

to epo's dismay,
it may be Feingold!

[A.J.]

This should get the haters all spun up: Grandma prays for Obama to embrace Islam (http://arabnews.com/saudiarabia/article200534.ece)

[epo]

to epo's dismay,
it may be Feingold!

Not happening. Nice try though.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Looks like they will have to puree the Wagyu beef of Obama


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/11/26/obama-needs-stitches-hurt-basketball-game/

[keithy_19]

This should get the haters all spun up: Grandma prays for Obama to embrace Islam (http://arabnews.com/saudiarabia/article200534.ece)

Cleary this shows that he's a Muslim. What his grandma prays for always comes true.

[torker]

In a Friday morning pickup game, President Obama was accidentally elbowed by one of his fellow players, forcing him to get 12 stitches in his lip, the White House said. Obama received the stitches under local anesthesia in the doctor's office on the ground floor of the White House after he returned home from the game at Fort McNair, a military base where he often plays. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/26/AR2010112604855.html)

http://orangejuiceblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/fat-lip-arnold.jpg
Its not the herpes.

[Dudeman]

Its not the herpes.

http://www.hermes-press.com/bush_bruise.jpg

miss "choking on pretzels" Bush

[WRESTLINGFAN]

http://orangejuiceblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/fat-lip-arnold.jpg
Its not the herpes.

Actually the busted lip happened on 11/2 :lol:

[Bob Impact]

Actually the busted lip happened on 11/2 :lol:

<div style="float: left; margin-right: 10px;"><embed src="http://media.entertonement.com/embed/OpenEntPlayer.swf" id="1_6d441160_fa10_11df_8f8a_00219b9a62b5" name="1_6d441160_fa10_11df_8f8a_00219b9a62b5" flashvars="auto_play=false&clip_pid=vcfhzqhncj&e=&id=1_6d441160_fa10_11df_8f8a_00219b9a62b5&skin_pid=wfxswdnlkf" width="300" height="30" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" allowscriptaccess="always" wmode="transparent"></embed><div id="1_6d441160_fa10_11df_8f8a_00219b9a62b5_anchor" style="font-size: 8px; color: black; text-decoration: none; display: block; text-align: center;"><a href="http://www.entertonement.com/clips/vcfhzqhncj--Price-is-Right-Loser-Horn-MP3-Sad" style="font-size: 8px; color: black;" target="_blank">Price is Right Loser Horn.MP3 sound clip</a> &nbsp;<a href="http://www.entertonement.com/collections/5050/Sad?ht_link=1_6d441160_fa10_11df_8f8a_00219b9a62b5" style="font-size: 8px; color: black;" target="_blank">Sad sound clips</a></div><img alt="Price is Right Loser Horn.MP3 sound clip" border="0" height="0" src="http://www.entertonement.com/widgets/img/clip/vcfhzqhncj/1/1_6d441160_fa10_11df_8f8a_00219b9a62b5/blank.gif" style="visibility: hidden; width: 0px; height: 0px; margin:0; padding:0; float:right" width="0" /></div>

[WRESTLINGFAN]

As usual there would be consequences andits starting to unfold. I do not want to hear about people who were forced to fork over their money against their will being called hypocrites when they want to start collecting whats rightfully theirs.


Medicare as well as social security needs to be phased out or at the very least be made voluntary as both of these when implemented never saw the unintended consequences.


http://www.lohud.com/article/20101128/NEWS01/11280364/Medicare-cuts-would-put-doctors-in-painful-spot

[TripleSkeet]

As usual there would be consequences andits starting to unfold. I do not want to hear about people who were forced to fork over their money against their will being called hypocrites when they want to start collecting whats rightfully theirs.


Medicare as well as social security needs to be phased out or at the very least be made voluntary as both of these when implemented never saw the unintended consequences.


http://www.lohud.com/article/20101128/NEWS01/11280364/Medicare-cuts-would-put-doctors-in-painful-spot

"I cant afford to make $40 to restart someones heart."

What exactly does something like that cost the doctor anyway? Id love to see what the poor doctors house looks like.

[epo]

As usual there would be consequences andits starting to unfold. I do not want to hear about people who were forced to fork over their money against their will being called hypocrites when they want to start collecting whats rightfully theirs.


Medicare as well as social security needs to be phased out or at the very least be made voluntary as both of these when implemented never saw the unintended consequences.


http://www.lohud.com/article/20101128/NEWS01/11280364/Medicare-cuts-would-put-doctors-in-painful-spot

We all know that Medicare & Medicaid reimbursement rates aren't perfect. However "solving" that problem by removing our social safety net would make us a worse society.

[Dudeman]

As usual there would be consequences andits starting to unfold. I do not want to hear about people who were forced to fork over their money against their will being called hypocrites when they want to start collecting whats rightfully theirs.


Medicare as well as social security needs to be phased out or at the very least be made voluntary as both of these when implemented never saw the unintended consequences.


http://www.lohud.com/article/20101128/NEWS01/11280364/Medicare-cuts-would-put-doctors-in-painful-spot

this is fucking ridiculous. a person has a heart attack or stroke and ends up in an emergency room. the doctor is supposed to wait until they figure out if the person has the right insurance before treating them????? Time is essential in stroke treatment- most major hospital keep track of the exact amount of time from stroke recognition to treatment because it has to happen asap. a doctor can't sit around and wait to see who has insurance or medicare. so ultimately who is going to pay for whatever is done before the hospital realizes the patient doesn't have the money? furthermore, you don't train doc's to sit around and not treat someone they can help.

[Pitdoc]

As usual there would be consequences andits starting to unfold. I do not want to hear about people who were forced to fork over their money against their will being called hypocrites when they want to start collecting whats rightfully theirs.


Medicare as well as social security needs to be phased out or at the very least be made voluntary as both of these when implemented never saw the unintended consequences.


http://www.lohud.com/article/20101128/NEWS01/11280364/Medicare-cuts-would-put-doctors-in-painful-spot

I assume that YOU could get a 30% pay cut & continue to operate . Medicare rates are already too low for some doctors .To cut them 25-30% more will do one of 2 things ; 1. Force about 40% of Medicare providers to drop a majority of their patients
2. Force a LOT of hospitals/medical groups out of business. Now before this happens, there will be a LOT of of people dying when they shouldn't because they can't afford their medical costs (Are you saying that insurance companies could do it cheaper? Right)

[Dudeman]

What exactly does something like that cost the doctor anyway? Id love to see what the poor doctors house looks like.

rand paul dodging the question of cutting dr salaries (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx0487NMo6g)

[Pitdoc]

this is fucking ridiculous. a person has a heart attack or stroke and ends up in an emergency room. the doctor is supposed to wait until they figure out if the person has the right insurance before treating them????? Time is essential in stroke treatment- most major hospital keep track of the exact amount of time from stroke recognition to treatment because it has to happen asap. a doctor can't sit around and wait to see who has insurance or medicare. so ultimately who is going to pay for whatever is done before the hospital realizes the patient doesn't have the money? furthermore, you don't train doc's to sit around and not treat someone they can help.

Don't worry.Every state mandates emergency care without requiring ability to pay. What does this mean? If the Medicare cuts go through, emergency rooms around the country double their (strained) capacities, as everyone who can't be treated by a Medicare doc, because they're not SEEING anyone with Medicare now, go to an emergency room when they can be seen regardless of ability to pay.THEN that emergency room / hospital closes, because it can't afford eating unpaid bills . The real shakeup will be when most emergency rooms close, as they become a loss leader to hospitals.They did this in Texas and a few other states already.

[Dudeman]

Don't worry.Every state mandates emergency care without requiring ability to pay. What does this mean? If the Medicare cuts go through, emergency rooms around the country double their (strained) capacities, as everyone who can't be treated by a Medicare doc, because they're not SEEING anyone with Medicare now, go to an emergency room when they can be seen regardless of ability to pay.THEN that emergency room / hospital closes, because it can't afford eating unpaid bills . The real shakeup will be when most emergency rooms close, as they become a loss leader to hospitals.They did this in Texas and a few other states already.

don't forget the fun part that things that could be treated faster and easier at one point get worse over time finally forcing the patient into the er and the cost of treating them at that point (not to mention the morbidity and mortality) is greater.

for example, an older person gets a pneumonia and has trouble breathing- he doesn't have insurance and hopes it will get better. if he had received antibiotics at that time, he could have recovered. finally, while gasping for air, he goes to the er, needs to be hospitalized, and possibly intubated and going to the ICU.

but those are details. its more fun to think in terms of slogans- cut taxes, government bad.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Brand Obama continuing to implode


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2010/12/07/2010-12-07_president_barack_obamas_approval_rating_is_belo w_george_w_bush_gallup_poll.html

[Zorro]

Brand Obama continuing to implode


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2010/12/07/2010-12-07_president_barack_obamas_approval_rating_is_belo w_george_w_bush_gallup_poll.html

Don't gloat... I can remember a time when implode was used to describe Bill Clinton and look how that turned out

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Don't gloat... I can remember a time when implode was used to describe Bill Clinton and look how that turned out

Agreed, however it was a different scenario back then, The economy was not in the shitter and there wasn't 2 unpopular occupations going on and a giant massive police state here

[Bob Impact]

The standing president's approval rating is lower than a former president's? HOLY SHIT! STOP THE PRESSES!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The standing president's approval rating is lower than a former president's? HOLY SHIT! STOP THE PRESSES!

Yes when that former president is Dubya.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The GM bailout was not a success. The fed gov still owns 30%. Part of the bailout money paid back was from a 2nd loan. The IPO was a net loss of 9 billion dollars. GM is NOT making a profit. Making a profit is revenue exceeding the costs plus paying back the ENTIRE loan amount. This was a huge payoff to the UAW union while bondholders were royally screwed.

GM should have been allowed to go bankrupt and restructure. They make cars that are the biggest pieces of junk on the road.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1827687520101118

Bloom said GM has done the right thing and pricing of $33 per share is a "fair deal" even though the partial sale represents a loss of roughly $9 billion on taxpayers' original investment.


Obama doesn't merit all the blame, This all started under dubya

[TripleSkeet]

Agreed, however it was a different scenario back then, The economy was not in the shitter and there wasn't 2 unpopular occupations going on and a giant massive police state here

Heres what I dont understand. The republicans are always crying about big government and a police state, maybe Im missing something but it looked like this country became more of a police state in the 8 years GW was in office then it ever was before. How come you guys never bitched about that? They used 9/11 to strip away all kinds of freedoms from people in this country under the guise of "safety" and you never said a word.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Heres what I dont understand. The republicans are always crying about big government and a police state, maybe Im missing something but it looked like this country became more of a police state in the 8 years GW was in office then it ever was before. How come you guys never bitched about that? They used 9/11 to strip away all kinds of freedoms from people in this country under the guise of "safety" and you never said a word.

Please dont put me in with the Weekly standard neocons. I have no use for Fred Barnes and company. Obama is continuing these awful policies but it seemsd to be OK with many of his supporters.

I really dont want to get a happy ending before boarding a flight. Chertoff is making millions off the scanning machines. Big Sis Napolitano and Walmart are in bed with each other now

http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/american-princess/2010/12/attention-wal-mart-shoppers.html

[A.J.]

Heres what I dont understand. The republicans are always crying about big government and a police state, maybe Im missing something but it looked like this country became more of a police state in the 8 years GW was in office then it ever was before. How come you guys never bitched about that? They used 9/11 to strip away all kinds of freedoms from people in this country under the guise of "safety" and you never said a word.

Because "9/11 changed everything", maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

As bad as Obama is, he isn't half the mini dictator Bloomberg is.


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2010/12/08/2010-12-08_mayor_bloomberg_offers_his_advice_on_fixing_eco nomy_and_fuels_rumors_of_2012_pre.html

[TripleSkeet]

Because "9/11 changed everything", maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan.

It did. Its just funny how people dont see how it changed everything. I feel safer on flights now. Not because of the added security, but because I KNOW there will NEVER be another hijacked passenger plane again in my lifetime. NEVER. There may be an ATTEMPTED hijacking, but thats as far as it will get.

The rules changed but they changed for the hijackers. Now they know that it doesnt matter if they have a fucking uzi on the plane, the passengers arent going to just sit there and let them take it over. They are going to attack and take back the plane.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

It did. Its just funny how people dont see how it changed everything. I feel safer on flights now. Not because of the added security, but because I KNOW there will NEVER be another hijacked passenger plane again in my lifetime. NEVER. There may be an ATTEMPTED hijacking, but thats as far as it will get.

The rules changed but they changed for the hijackers. Now they know that it doesnt matter if they have a fucking uzi on the plane, the passengers arent going to just sit there and let them take it over. They are going to attack and take back the plane.

Theres always a chance of a Madrid or London style attack, so whats next? TSA will screen everyone going nto Penn or Grand Central or othe major train stations? If the times sq wannabe bomber wa ssuccessful, half of Manhattan would be closed to vehicular traffic permanantly Our problem is that we always play catch up when it comes to security measures.

[TripleSkeet]

Theres always a chance of a Madrid or London style attack, so whats next? TSA will screen everyone going nto Penn or Grand Central or othe major train stations? If the times sq wannabe bomber wa ssuccessful, half of Manhattan would be closed to vehicular traffic permanantly Our problem is that we always play catch up when it comes to security measures.

We as a society need to realize that if someone is willing to die with his bomb, there is no way to ever prevent them from blowing something up. You are not guaranteed safety in this life, and giving away your rights for some pretend safety is just as fucking dumb. They caught the Times Square bomber because he wasnt willing to die with his attack. Therefore he needed help.

If I didnt care about my life I could go to Home Depot, put together a bomb, and blow up the fucking Liberty Bell or Phillys City Hall this weekend if I wanted to. Its impossible to prevent and the quicker people realize this and get over it, the better we can be as a society.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

A civil war btwn Obama and Capitol Hill.

Schumer who I disagree with on almost everything wanted to tax people making 1mm /YR back to the old rate, However Bernie Sanders thinks millionaires are people who make any salary at all.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/12/09/tax.plan/index.html?hpt=T1

[Bob Impact]

The caucus members chanted "just say no," according to two Democrats who attended the meeting. Rep. Laura Richardson of California later asked reporters outside the room: "Did you hear us saying 'just say no'?"

Am I the only one who gets really bothered by this kind of stuff? Conduct yourselves with some dignity for christ's sake.

[Dudeman]

Am I the only one who gets really bothered by this kind of stuff? Conduct yourselves with some dignity for christ's sake.

http://politiclolz.com/files/2009/09/20090909-You-Lie.jpg

[Bob Impact]

http://politiclolz.com/files/2009/09/20090909-You-Lie.jpg

Oh GOD that one was horrid.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Am I the only one who gets really bothered by this kind of stuff? Conduct yourselves with some dignity for christ's sake.

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/l_1-wkHmh-U?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/l_1-wkHmh-U?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

[Furtherman]

Tax Package Will Aid Nearly All, except those who make the least. (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/08/us/politics/08impact.html)

Tis the season to be jolly!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Tax Package Will Aid Nearly All, except those who make the least. (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/08/us/politics/08impact.html)

Tis the season to be jolly!

All of this can be dealt with if there was no progressive income tax. No loopholes, no shelters in the Caymans. Repeal the 16th ammendment. PROBLEM SOLVED


<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/aFULB0Vv_YE?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/aFULB0Vv_YE?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Barack cant keep Mrs O waiting. After all theres a party going on. Exit stage right for Americas 1st black President

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101210/ap_on_bi_ge/us_obama_clinton

[Barnaby Jones]

It's like you're not even real!!! Are some kind of cartoon?!?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

It's like you're not even real!!! Are some kind of cartoon?!?

That was such a bush league moment for him. The issue is taxes and the dope leaves to go to a party. What a fucking embarassment. He's supposed to be the Chief Executive of the fed gov't but he needs Bubba to cover his ass.

[pennington]

Barack cant keep Mrs O waiting. After all theres a party going on.

I look at this as a positive; he's improving. In the past he would have taken another vacation or went to play golf.

(Somehow, someone will use this to make a negative comment about Bush or Palin.)

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I look at this as a positive; he's improving. In the past he would have taken another vacation or went to play golf.

(Somehow, someone will use this to make a negative comment about Bush or Palin.)

To his defense it has been too cold to hit the links in the DC area. In any case what a fucking embarassment to ditch out and having an ex President take questions

[Dude!]

To his defense it has been too cold to hit the links in the DC area. In any case what a fucking embarassment to ditch out and having an ex President take questions

that scene was just unbelievable
clinton was so dismissive
of the boy-wonder

how humiliating

[TripleSkeet]

Tax Package Will Aid Nearly All, except those who make the least. (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/08/us/politics/08impact.html)

Tis the season to be jolly!

For the life of me I just dont understand why the majority of people in this country, mainly poor to middle class citizens, vote for republicans. It honestly seems the only people they give a fuck about is the rich.

I mean, once you hit a certain tax bracket, yea you gotta vote for the people doing right by you, but so many of the people that arent in that bracket still vote for these guys that really have no interest in helping them. Are there that many religious rubes out there voting based on "morality"?

[brettmojo]

For the life of me I just dont understand why the majority of people in this country, mainly poor to middle class citizens, vote for republicans. It honestly seems the only people they give a fuck about is the rich.

I mean, once you hit a certain tax bracket, yea you gotta vote for the people doing right by you, but so many of the people that arent in that bracket still vote for these guys that really have no interest in helping them. Are there that many religious rubes out there voting based on "morality"?
Sarah Palin was almost one step away from the presidency... And even still is considered in the running for 2012.

What other proof do you need?

[Snacks]

For the life of me I just dont understand why the majority of people in this country, mainly poor to middle class citizens, vote for republicans. It honestly seems the only people they give a fuck about is the rich.

I mean, once you hit a certain tax bracket, yea you gotta vote for the people doing right by you, but so many of the people that arent in that bracket still vote for these guys that really have no interest in helping them. Are there that many religious rubes out there voting based on "morality"?

wow we agree on something else. whats the fuck?

I have been saying this for years. Why would anyone making less then $100,000 vote Republican? The answer seems to have 2 reasons. Reason 1, they think they will some day be rich so they vote for what they hope is their future interest. Reason 2 is they hate hand outs. They feel that the dems tax so much to give it to minorities and they themselves are in the same situations as many of these minorities yet they arent entitled to some of the resources?

Thats the only thing I think it could be.

[underdog]

wow we agree on something else. whats the fuck?

I have been saying this for years. Why would anyone making less then $100,000 vote Republican? The answer seems to have 2 reasons. Reason 1, they think they will some day be rich so they vote for what they hope is their future interest. Reason 2 is they hate hand outs. They feel that the dems tax so much to give it to minorities and they themselves are in the same situations as many of these minorities yet they arent entitled to some of the resources?

Thats the only thing I think it could be.

They just (for the most part) watch fox news now and have been convinced that they're the same and that cutting taxes for the rich will somehow benefit them. My family are these people, even though they're all poor. They're convinced taxes are evil and everyone using the handouts is abusing the system. It's insanity.

It's the same way rich white people convinced poor white people that they had more in common with them rather than the poor black people they made them hate. People are retarded.

[booster11373]

The hatred of the poor by the poor and middle class is really something to behold. In any discussion I have ever had about welfare and food stamps someone always brings up the "fact" that they were behind someone in Walmart who was buying steak, lobster and cigarettes with food stamps and then got into their BMW they also state that they wanted to say something to this person but didnt

[underdog]

The hatred of the poor by the poor and middle class is really something to behold. In any discussion I have ever had about welfare and food stamps someone always brings up the "fact" that they were behind someone in Walmart who was buying steak, lobster and cigarettes with food stamps and then got into their BMW they also state that they wanted to say something to this person but didnt

It would be funny, except that it's true. I hear the same shit.

Every person that uses welfare is a crackhead who drives a really nice car.

[TripleSkeet]

It would be funny, except that it's true. I hear the same shit.

Every person that uses welfare is a crackhead who drives a really nice car.

I dont even know why this would bother people. For awhile when I was younger there were black kids living in the projects near my house driving BMWs. Everyone just assumed it was bought and paid for with drug money. Then I went to work at a BMW dealership. What these guys would do is put the minimum money down they could, then drive the car without making payments as long as they could before it got repossessed. These are the fuckups the people in my neighborhood were jealous of.

Its easy to have nice things as long as you dont mind eventually giving them up and ruining your credit score.Personally Id rather have a less nicer car and be able to pay for it.

[Bob Impact]

I dont even know why this would bother people. For awhile when I was younger there were black kids living in the projects near my house driving BMWs. Everyone just assumed it was bought and paid for with drug money. Then I went to work at a BMW dealership. What these guys would do is put the minimum money down they could, then drive the car without making payments as long as they could before it got repossessed. These are the fuckups the people in my neighborhood were jealous of.

Its easy to have nice things as long as you dont mind eventually giving them up and ruining your credit score.Personally Id rather have a less nicer car and be able to pay for it.
:wallbash:
http://wallstreetpit.com/7611-what-caused-the-housing-bubble

[A.J.]

The hatred of the poor by the poor and middle class is really something to behold. In any discussion I have ever had about welfare and food stamps someone always brings up the "fact" that they were behind someone in Walmart who was buying steak, lobster and cigarettes with food stamps and then got into their BMW they also state that they wanted to say something to this person but didnt

The ones I used to see when I lived in DC were usually buying crappy food for the 4-5 kids they clearly couldn't afford to have.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The poor have to take their share of criticism too. Just because someone is poor doesnt mean they cant be immature. There needs to be some sort of personal responsibility. For example why do they keep having children? If someone can not afford to support himself why must they keep having children. Also in regards to foodstamps. There are these colorful items in the supermarket called Fruits and Vegetables.

[midwestjeff]

If someone can not afford to support himself why must they keep having children.

If you don't have money to go out, you gotta stay in and get your fuck on.

There are these colorful items in the supermarket called Fruits and Vegetables.

What do gay check out clerks and retarded stock boys have to do with anything?

[underdog]

For example why do they keep having children? If someone can not afford to support himself why must they keep having children

Religion.

[Dudeman]

Also in regards to foodstamps. There are these colorful items in the supermarket called Fruits and Vegetables.

Oh if only the world was so simple and black and white as in your world. Smart people (often using tax money funded research) have looked into that problem- and it is a problem, no question. Unfortunately, the answer isn't as simple (and racist) as you and your buddies would like.

Here are reports from the cdc and dept of agriculture on the problem:

http://www.cdc.gov/features/fooddeserts/

"According to a 2009 report by the US Department of Agriculture, a small percentage of American consumers are limited in their ability to access affordable nutritious food because they live far from a supermarket or large grocery store and do not have easy access to transportation."


http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/ap/ap036/


Bottom line, personal choice is a major factor in the problem you describe, but it is not the only cause for the problem. I was involved briefly at looking at "food deserts" in my city- and I was surprised that they really existed. There would be large areas that had no even mediocre supermarkets, and the difficulty of finding public transportation to get to a store was certainly a barrier.

[StanUpshaw]

Oh if only the world was so simple and black and white as in your world. Smart people (often using tax money funded research) have looked into that problem- and it is a problem, no question. Unfortunately, the answer isn't as simple (and racist) as you and your buddies would like.

Here are reports from the cdc and dept of agriculture on the problem:

http://www.cdc.gov/features/fooddeserts/

"According to a 2009 report by the US Department of Agriculture, a small percentage of American consumers are limited in their ability to access affordable nutritious food because they live far from a supermarket or large grocery store and do not have easy access to transportation."


http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/ap/ap036/


Bottom line, personal choice is a major factor in the problem you describe, but it is not the only cause for the problem. I was involved briefly at looking at "food deserts" in my city- and I was surprised that they really existed. There would be large areas that had no even mediocre supermarkets, and the difficulty of finding public transportation to get to a store was certainly a barrier.

Yet the people don't starve completely. Which means there is some place where food is being sold. Are we to believe that the shop owners would not stock nutritious food if that was what their customers demanded? Of course not.

Shelf space is limited, so shop keepers only stock what sells. For the customers, money is limited, so they buy only what satisfies.

[Barnaby Jones]

Fruits and vegetables and meats and whatnot have more turnover and require more expensive storage and display! Sure, people have access to grocery stores; but a lot of people really only have access to shitty ones that don't refrigerate much outside of frozen foods and basic dairy and meat products!

[StanUpshaw]

And an entire wall of soda?

[Barnaby Jones]

Exactly! They want to sell the stuff that requires less maintenance and turnover more than anything else!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Individual mandate. Unconstitutional

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/sc-dc-health-law-ruling-20101213,0,39107.story

Judge to Feds. Mind your own fucking business in regards to SB 1070

http://www.thecypresstimes.com/article/News/National_News/FEDERAL_COURT_GRANTS_GOVERNOR_JAN_BREWERS_MOTION_T O_DISMISS_SEVERAL_CHALLENGES_TO_SB_1070/37355

It has not been a good week for Obama, infighting in his own party. A Senator filibustering his tax deal, and needing his daddy to intervene while he goes to party does not look good

[S0S]

ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/health-care-law-virginia-judge-rule-constitutionality-individual-mandate/story?id=12377565)

In a stinging rebuke to the Obama administration, a federal judge struck down a key provision of the recently passed health care law, saying it "exceeds the constitutional boundaries of congressional power."

U.S. District Judge Henry E. Hudson said in a 42-page ruling that the so called individual mandate, which requires all Americans to buy some form of health insurance, would " invite unbridled exercise of the federal police powers."

The individual mandate, Hudson concluded, "exceeds the constitutional boundaries of congressional power."

"At its core," the judge ruled "this dispute is not simply about regulating the business of insurance, or crafting a scheme of universal health insurance coverage, its about an individual's right to choose to participate."

[Syd]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/17/AR2009051702053.html

About the 10th time I've posted this article, "The High Cost of Poverty: Why the Poor Pay More"

[Dude!]

About the 10th time I've posted this article, "The High Cost of Poverty: Why the Poor Pay More"

and the 10th time
nobody will read it

[angrytruckingguy]

For the life of me I just dont understand why the majority of people in this country, mainly poor to middle class citizens, vote for republicans. It honestly seems the only people they give a fuck about is the rich.

I mean, once you hit a certain tax bracket, yea you gotta vote for the people doing right by you, but so many of the people that arent in that bracket still vote for these guys that really have no interest in helping them. Are there that many religious rubes out there voting based on "morality"?
I realize you comment is a generalization, however, allow me to offer my own comment, which is also a broad generalization based on my own recent experiences. I can't for the life of me understand why anyone who owns anything in this country would ever vote for a democrat. I'm not talking about equity in a home or that you made all you car payments on time. I mean outright owners of property and businesses. Many such people aren't waiting around to see what happens over the next few years. They are taking their ball and going home. My Grandmother closed her restaurant of 40+ years. My Dad sold his massage school. My inlaws closed their truck business. You think times are tough now? When the people with means decide to cut their losses and conserve what they have left times are gonna get a whole lot tougher.

[Dudeman]

I realize you comment is a generalization, however, allow me to offer my own comment, which is also a broad generalization based on my own recent experiences. I can't for the life of me understand why anyone who owns anything in this country would ever vote for a democrat. I'm not talking about equity in a home or that you made all you car payments on time. I mean outright owners of property and businesses. Many such people aren't waiting around to see what happens over the next few years. They are taking their ball and going home. My Grandmother closed her restaurant of 40+ years. My Dad sold his massage school. My inlaws closed their truck business. You think times are tough now? When the people with means decide to cut their losses and conserve what they have left times are gonna get a whole lot tougher.

Isn't that the argument for Democrats? They are trying to shift the tax "burden" to those making > a quarter million; Rep's are trying to protect the upper class $.

[underdog]

I realize you comment is a generalization, however, allow me to offer my own comment, which is also a broad generalization based on my own recent experiences. I can't for the life of me understand why anyone who owns anything in this country would ever vote for a democrat. I'm not talking about equity in a home or that you made all you car payments on time. I mean outright owners of property and businesses. Many such people aren't waiting around to see what happens over the next few years. They are taking their ball and going home. My Grandmother closed her restaurant of 40+ years. My Dad sold his massage school. My inlaws closed their truck business. You think times are tough now? When the people with means decide to cut their losses and conserve what they have left times are gonna get a whole lot tougher.

So you're actually blaming the economy and the reason these people closed their supposed businesses on less than 2 years of democratic leadership? Really?

[Dudeman]

So you're actually blaming the economy and the reason these people closed their supposed businesses on less than 2 years of democratic leadership? Really?

i don't think that was what he was saying. he was just saying that he feels that the dem's policies that he feels involves higher taxes for possibly more gov services hurt the working class.

[Dudeman]

and the 10th time
nobody will read it

I've
read
it
and think
it
is
interesting.

[Snacks]

So you're actually blaming the economy and the reason these people closed their supposed businesses on less than 2 years of democratic leadership? Really?

yeah because of the dems a business that was open for 40 years they decided to just close. Please it probably closed because they couldnt sell it. They were probably selling it because it wasnt doing well. It wasnt doing well probably because of all the chain food service business opening up everywhere and corp greed killing off mom and pops.

I owned my own business for 10+ years. I sold it because I wanted to do something else and because you have to know when any particular business ran it course. Those people that are just closing up because they are scared are worthless anyway. You dont close your business unless you are losing money. Once again it goes back to the argument. Why would any of these people vote republican? They dont care about small businesses they care about big corp business. Obama hasnt hurt the small business man the republicans have. The majority of the business tax cuts benefited the big corps they were useless to small business.

[angrytruckingguy]

So you're actually blaming the economy and the reason these people closed their supposed businesses on less than 2 years of democratic leadership? Really?

No, what I'm saying is there were of course many factors that led to the closing of all of all of my families businesses and my wife's families business, but they have the mean$ to continue, but decided it was better to conserve their resources as a show of no-faith as to where we are headed with this whole "bringing the next person up" mentality. It was a hard decision for all of them to quit: my Grama- because she employed my Mom and Uncle, my Dad-because my sister did some print work for his schools, and my In-laws because me and my wife and my brother-in-law, my nephew, and my sons benefited from their business. You know the little red wagon story?

[TripleSkeet]

No, what I'm saying is there were of course many factors that led to the closing of all of all of my families businesses and my wife's families business, but they have the mean$ to continue, but decided it was better to conserve their resources as a show of no-faith as to where we are headed with this whole "bringing the next person up" mentality. It was a hard decision for all of them to quit: my Grama- because she employed my Mom and Uncle, my Dad-because my sister did some print work for his schools, and my In-laws because me and my wife and my brother-in-law, my nephew, and my sons benefited from their business. You know the little red wagon story?

So they closed up because they had no faith in the democratic leadership of this country now? Thats the reason? And they put at least 8 relatives on unemployment as a show of no faith? Im trying to see the logic and failing miserably.

[epo]

So they closed up because they had no faith in the democratic leadership of this country now? Thats the reason? And they put at least 8 relatives on unemployment as a show of no faith? Im trying to see the logic and failing miserably.

Trying to see lack in that story will only hurt all of our brains.

[Snacks]

So they closed up because they had no faith in the democratic leadership of this country now? Thats the reason? And they put at least 8 relatives on unemployment as a show of no faith? Im trying to see the logic and failing miserably.

if any of that story is true then the Republicans are retarded. They are so afraid that the black man is going to take from them that they rather run, hide with whatever they have left and hoard it like scared squirrels hoard their nuts in winter.

Just shows you how powerful fox news is. They have convinced people to be so scared and make shit up. Similar to the bible and religion but thats another argument! The sheep shall follow!

[underdog]

No, what I'm saying is there were of course many factors that led to the closing of all of all of my families businesses and my wife's families business, but they have the mean$ to continue, but decided it was better to conserve their resources as a show of no-faith as to where we are headed with this whole "bringing the next person up" mentality. It was a hard decision for all of them to quit: my Grama- because she employed my Mom and Uncle, my Dad-because my sister did some print work for his schools, and my In-laws because me and my wife and my brother-in-law, my nephew, and my sons benefited from their business. You know the little red wagon story?

So your family stopped their "bringing the next person up" mentality because of this whole "bringing the next person up" mentality?

[booster11373]

I realize you comment is a generalization, however, allow me to offer my own comment, which is also a broad generalization based on my own recent experiences. I can't for the life of me understand why anyone who owns anything in this country would ever vote for a democrat. I'm not talking about equity in a home or that you made all you car payments on time. I mean outright owners of property and businesses. Many such people aren't waiting around to see what happens over the next few years. They are taking their ball and going home. My Grandmother closed her restaurant of 40+ years. My Dad sold his massage school. My inlaws closed their truck business. You think times are tough now? When the people with means decide to cut their losses and conserve what they have left times are gonna get a whole lot tougher.

Thats kind of silly and reactionary of your family. Historically taxes have been much higher in the past, Democrats were in power for much longer and the economy was in much better shape.

[Zorro]

So you're actually blaming the economy and the reason these people closed their supposed businesses on less than 2 years of democratic leadership? Really?

I get the joke Democratic Leadership...lol

[angrytruckingguy]

So your family stopped their "bringing the next person up" mentality because of this whole "bringing the next person up" mentality?

I refer you to "the little red wagon"- you have a wagon, you pull your little brother, sometimes he pulls you, sometimes you pull you little brother and your little sister, hell, you even let the neighbor kid have a ride. One day you go out to the driveway and the whole neighborhood is sitting in the wagon.

[A.J.]

"I got a weal wed wagon!"

http://www.wearysloth.com/Gallery/ActorsW/18395-26115.gif

[angrytruckingguy]

if any of that story is true then the Republicans are retarded. They are so afraid that the black man is going to take from them that they rather run, hide with whatever they have left and hoard it like scared squirrels hoard their nuts in winter.

Just shows you how powerful fox news is. They have convinced people to be so scared and make shit up. Similar to the bible and religion but thats another argument! The sheep shall follow!

Maybe you should actually OWN something, then you will understand fiscal conservatism. And don't even infer racism.

[Pitdoc]

No, what I'm saying is there were of course many factors that led to the closing of all of all of my families businesses and my wife's families business, but they have the mean$ to continue, but decided it was better to conserve their resources as a show of no-faith as to where we are headed with this whole "bringing the next person up" mentality. It was a hard decision for all of them to quit: my Grama- because she employed my Mom and Uncle, my Dad-because my sister did some print work for his schools, and my In-laws because me and my wife and my brother-in-law, my nephew, and my sons benefited from their business. You know the little red wagon story?

I would naturally assume when they put several people out of a job that they didn't accept the government's "socialist" unemployment compensation.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I would naturally assume when they put several people out of a job that they didn't accept the government's "socialist" unemployment compensation.

If people paid into it by law then they deserve it. Get it?

[epo]

Maybe you should actually OWN something, then you will understand fiscal conservatism. And don't even infer racism.

I and my family do. The manner in which you explain "fiscal conservatism" doesn't make a damned bit of sense.

[Pitdoc]

If people paid into it by law then they deserve it. Get it?

Tell that to the Republicans

[Dude!]

I and my family do.

a man + a cat = a family?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/CCuoLd0K4lY?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/CCuoLd0K4lY?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Zorro]

I and my family do. The manner in which you explain "fiscal conservatism" doesn't make a damned bit of sense.

Oh...if you're going to start asking people on here to make sense then this whole thread is gone.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Thankfully the lame duck is dead. Awww sorry Barry you cant always get what you want.

Enjoy your victories of Obamacare, Phony financial reform, Auto bailouts etc. Come January if the GOP has a set, they will block everything and/or force him to comprimise.

At least Amnesty is dead . YAY!!!!!

http://www.kansascity.com/2010/12/22/2537854/obama-hails-lame-duck-session.html#

[Syd]

Amnesty may be dead, but so is the chances of anything being done by illegal immigrants. It's back to a more spartan approach to deportation.

[keithy_19]

Amnesty may be dead, but so is the chances of anything being done by illegal immigrants. It's back to a more spartan approach to deportation.

Well thank God. All they seem to do is take American jobs, rape, murder, piss on the constitution, sell drugs, and piss on the feet of small children.

[Syd]

by/about, Republicans have more to gain by keep a slave caste

[NickyL0885]

Well thank God. All they seem to do is take American jobs, rape, murder, piss on the constitution, sell drugs, and piss on the feet of small children.

You mean those jobs Americans are dying to do like flip burgers, cut the lawn and bus tables?

[keithy_19]

You mean those jobs Americans are dying to do like flip burgers, cut the lawn and bus tables?

You bet. Not all of us have dreams of becoming doctors :wink:

[TripleSkeet]

You mean those jobs Americans are dying to do like flip burgers, cut the lawn and bus tables?

I dobnt even see them do that. Bus tables? Uusally they wash dishes and empty trash cans around here. They are pretty good at landscaping though. And very affordable.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

by/about, Democrats have more to gain by keep a dependant needy caste



Fixed

[WRESTLINGFAN]

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/hCeSvdBvBfE?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/hCeSvdBvBfE?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

[Syd]

Fixed

poor people don't vote

[StanUpshaw]

http://www.dollarsandsense.org/archives/2004/0104cervantes.html

http://i.imgur.com/DPiG0.gif

[WRESTLINGFAN]

E Tu Matthews????..... Show the Birth Certificate.....


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/

Clarence Thomas says "the president has more important things to do"....

Like calling the eagles brass about Vick ?


http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/susan-milligan/2010/12/28/obama-may-forgive-him-but-michael-vick-is-no-mvp

[Bob Impact]

I turned the Matthews video first and turned the volume up late to hear him say "this manufactured controversy" and then say he "hates birthers". I should have known better than to click on a link you posted.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

E Tu Matthews????..... Show the Birth Certificate.....


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/

Clarence Thomas says "the president has more important things to do"....

Like calling the eagles brass about Vick ?


http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/susan-milligan/2010/12/28/obama-may-forgive-him-but-michael-vick-is-no-mvp

Correction.. Clarence Page

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I turned the Matthews video first and turned the volume up late to hear him say "this manufactured controversy" and then say he "hates birthers". I should have known better than to click on a link you posted.

While that video was vague. Why would Lardball put himself in that position by asking for the long form birth cert?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

This President just doesnt get it. And they say dubya was stubborn.


WHAT PART OF NO DOESN'T HE UNDERSTAND?


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101222/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_obama_immigration;_ylt=Anb9ljul5IoSotKrCI21K3ey Fz4D;_ylu=X3oDMTJxdWVsNzZyBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTAxMjIy L3VzX29iYW1hX2ltbWlncmF0aW9uBGNwb3MDMTIEcG9zAzkEc2 VjA3luX2hlYWRsaW5lX2xpc3QEc2xrA29iYW1hdG9rZWVwZg

[Recyclerz]

This President just doesnt get it. And they say dubya was stubborn.


WHAT PART OF NO DOESN'T HE UNDERSTAND?


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101222/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_obama_immigration;_ylt=Anb9ljul5IoSotKrCI21K3ey Fz4D;_ylu=X3oDMTJxdWVsNzZyBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTAxMjIy L3VzX29iYW1hX2ltbWlncmF0aW9uBGNwb3MDMTIEcG9zAzkEc2 VjA3luX2hlYWRsaW5lX2xpc3QEc2xrA29iYW1hdG9rZWVwZg

What part of math don't the Republicans get? Hispanics are the fastest growing demographic in the country (even after factoring out the illegal immigrants) so to be supporting legislation like the Dream Act or loosening the artifically low legal immigration limits is going to be a political plus in the intermediate and long terms. Obama is trying to push the Hispanic bloc into the Democratic base, which is not a dumb move.

Even W (& Rove) understood that long term success of the GOP meant getting a nice sized chunk of the Hispanics on their side of the fence. Since a lot of the demographic are socially conservative it wasn't a bad idea. However, if the Republicans want to remake/reveal themselves as the cranky, old, white people party, as they seem to be doing now, I won't be sad, regardless of the temporary success they are having at the moment.

[TripleSkeet]

This President just doesnt get it. And they say dubya was stubborn.


WHAT PART OF NO DOESN'T HE UNDERSTAND?


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101222/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_obama_immigration;_ylt=Anb9ljul5IoSotKrCI21K3ey Fz4D;_ylu=X3oDMTJxdWVsNzZyBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTAxMjIy L3VzX29iYW1hX2ltbWlncmF0aW9uBGNwb3MDMTIEcG9zAzkEc2 VjA3luX2hlYWRsaW5lX2xpc3QEc2xrA29iYW1hdG9rZWVwZg

Arent you the same guy that criticizes Obama whenever he doesnt do something he promised in his campaign? Now youre criticizing him for continuing to try to fulfill his promises.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

What part of math don't the Republicans get? Hispanics are the fastest growing demographic in the country (even after factoring out the illegal immigrants) so to be supporting legislation like the Dream Act or loosening the artifically low legal immigration limits is going to be a political plus in the intermediate and long terms. Obama is trying to push the Hispanic bloc into the Democratic base, which is not a dumb move.

Even W (& Rove) understood that long term success of the GOP meant getting a nice sized chunk of the Hispanics on their side of the fence. Since a lot of the demographic are socially conservative it wasn't a bad idea. However, if the Republicans want to remake/reveal themselves as the cranky, old, white people party, as they seem to be doing now, I won't be sad, regardless of the temporary success they are having at the moment.

Obama does not know basic economics. If 2.1 million people are legalized, that increases the supply of workers in an economy where demand is low. Not only that. American citizens will now have to compete against people for high skilled / white collar/professional jobs. Its bad enough the illegals decimated the construction/landscaping industry.


Now youre playing the ole Hispanic version of plantation politics thinking every latino supports Amnesty when thats not true. In fact many oppose it.

While this is an old poll 51% of them oppose it.


http://www.cis.org/ZogbyPoll-ConstituencyAttitudesTowardAmnesty

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Obama praised the 111th congress. Under Pelosi and Reids helm

The federal government has accumulated more new debt--$3.22 trillion ($3,220,103,625,307.29)—during the tenure of the 111th Congress than it did during the first 100 Congresses combined, according to official debt figures published by the U.S. Treasury."


Sure they were very active. Look how active roaches and termites are. Thats your Congress

[TripleSkeet]

Obama does not know basic economics. If 2.1 million people are legalized, that increases the supply of workers in an economy where demand is low. Not only that. American citizens will now have to compete against people for high skilled / white collar/professional jobs. Its bad enough the illegals decimated the construction/landscaping industry.


Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Holy fuck. Dont forget they decimated the dishwashing industry too!!! And the fruit picking industry! Are you fucking serious?

Do you know what illegals did to the landscaping industry? They made it affordable for middle class people. Now someone like myself doesnt have to waste a Saturday cutting grass because I can hire a landscaper to come do it twice a month. If only American workers were on these crews the company would have to charge so much to pay them that only the rich would be able to afford well manicured lawns and yards.

When are you guys going to get it through your head, these illegals are doing jobs that Americans either...
1. Dont want
2. Think they are too good for
Or...3. Want to be paid an amount that would not make it affordable to middle class people.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Holy fuck. Dont forget they decimated the dishwashing industry too!!! And the fruit picking industry! Are you fucking serious?

Do you know what illegals did to the landscaping industry? They made it affordable for middle class people. Now someone like myself doesnt have to waste a Saturday cutting grass because I can hire a landscaper to come do it twice a month. If only American workers were on these crews the company would have to charge so much to pay them that only the rich would be able to afford well manicured lawns and yards.

When are you guys going to get it through your head, these illegals are doing jobs that Americans either...
1. Dont want
2. Think they are too good for
Or...3. Want to be paid an amount that would not make it affordable to middle class people.

Yes because they drive down wages of low skilled workers. More supply equals less wages. Its basic economics. But then again you probably think Obama has created or saved 16 trillion jobs. Or that government can actually create jobs. Read up on Henry Hazlitt

Myth Busted

http://freedomfolks.blogspot.com/2006/03/exploding-myth-of-illegal-immigrates.html

Their source. PEW HISPANIC CENTER!!!

BTW All those coal miners, oil rig workers, men and women dodging IEDs in Afghanistan/Iraq are illegal aliens ????




What you fail to realize your short term gain of having cheap labor mow your lawn costs you more when you have to provide for him and his family thru taxation for all their entitlements, education healthcare etc.


I know, they are only here to work, another talking point. people save a buck on their lawns and who cares that all over the country drunken illegals with no license or registration or insurance mows down Americans or molests children or rape women?They are'nt your friends or family. The Kitty Genovese Syndrome is running wild As long as it is'nt my family member or friend that are affected by these illegals it is okay, because I got a great deal on my landscaping.

The mood changes once you or your family member gets rear ended by someone who speaks very little english, drunk out of his mind and no license.


Cheap Labor ain't cheap afterall

[underdog]

The mood changes once you or your family member gets rear ended by someone who speaks very little english, drunk out of his mind and no license.

Are you trying to convince us that someone's opinion may change when it effects them personally? You've thrown a lot of crazy, made up, insane, borderline retarded things out there, but this is the craziest so far!

You're saying emotion effects opinion? CRAZINESS!

We should run our country that way, just based off of emotion. That's real fucking smart.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Fixed

Are you trying to convince us that someone's opinion may change when it effects them personally? You've provided numerous facts , but this also makes sense


You're saying emotion effects opinion? REALITY!!!!
We should run our country by enforcing the law That's real fucking smart. Yes it is.

[spoon]

I know, they are only here to work, another talking point. people save a buck on their lawns and who cares that all over the country drunken illegals with no license or registration or insurance mows down Americans or molests children or rape women?They are'nt your friends or family. The Kitty Genovese Syndrome is running wild As long as it is'nt my family member or friend that are affected by these illegals it is okay, because I got a great deal on my landscaping.

Cheap Labor ain't cheap afterall

Wait, you mean the case that was debunked as 38 people didn't in fact witness and ignore a girl's murder about 50 years ago?! The same bullshit analogy from Hannity/Rush? You really are a fucking parrot. I think I even saw/heard this on Fox News too. To say it's a stretch is putting in mildly. Not to mention the guy who killed her back then was a citizen who was married. So I guess you want legals all tossed huh? I gotcha now! I agree!

Oh and it's funny you created an pseudo epidemic of illegals mowing down legals and raping their dead bodies. Fear factor tactics, again!? What an odd play by the side who usually debates and makes points with valid examples and clear, logical arguments. Oh wait, not so much.

Seriously, this should be your business card --> :wallbash:

[spoon]

BTW All those coal miners, oil rig workers, men and women dodging IEDs in Afghanistan/Iraq are illegal aliens ????


Like those same workers here on unregulated rigs that explode on their own, mines that fall in on themselves bc they dig too close to river beds or use illegal retreat mining processes? All to save even more money for bottom lines, executives and stock holders that hire workforces laden with illegals? OK, cool.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Wait, you mean the case that was debunked as 38 people didn't in fact witness and ignore a girl's murder about 50 years ago?! The same bullshit analogy from Hannity/Rush? You really are a fucking parrot. I think I even saw/heard this on Fox News too. To say it's a stretch is putting in mildly. Not to mention the guy who killed her back then was a citizen who was married. So I guess you want legals all tossed huh? I gotcha now! I agree!

Oh and it's funny you created an pseudo epidemic of illegals mowing down legals and raping their dead bodies. Fear factor tactics, again!? What an odd play by the side who usually debates and makes points with valid examples and clear, logical arguments. Oh wait, not so much.

Seriously, this should be your business card --> :wallbash:

Fuck it why dont you throw out the lines of Neo con HAHAHAHAHAHA

Holy shit your fox news hysteria fetish is laughable.


Since you brought them up Your new BFF Ruppert Murdoch wants amnesty.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/video/item/rupert-murdoch-amnesty-for-illegal-aliens



Quit being so fucking lazy and google illegal immigrant and see for yourself the tons of links of illegals committing crimes.

Again we have enough of our own home grown people at the bottom of the totem pole, Why import more potential criminals? Man this is too easy

[WRESTLINGFAN]

[QUOTE=Like the same countless victims murdered or maimed by illegals.[/QUOTE]=
Fixed

[spoon]

Fuck it why dont you throw out the lines of Neo con HAHAHAHAHAHA

Holy shit your fox news hysteria fetish is laughable.


Since you brought them up Your new BFF Ruppert Murdoch wants amnesty.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/video/item/rupert-murdoch-amnesty-for-illegal-aliens



Quit being so fucking lazy and google illegal immigrant and see for yourself the tons of links of illegals committing crimes.

Again we have enough of our own home grown people at the bottom of the totem pole, Why import more potential criminals? Man this is too easy

Yes, lazy as in that the crime rates for illegals is actually less than those here naturally?

Factoring out those involved solely in drug trafficking, or those crimes linked to simply trying to get into the country and it's not even a debate.

Also, what view Murdock "claims" he's for obviously has little to NO impact on the contrent of Fox News. You know that bc it surely isn't pro amnesty as you insinuate it is with that idiotic statement that has no relevance in this conversation. Try using google to look at a broader picture versus your "climate depot" type sources that make a point and try to defend it versus deducing a point based on the actual data.

[spoon]

Funny thing is, I'm not against setting some more rigid standards for immigration as the country, it's needs, it's future is ever evolving. If someone does come here illegally I have no issue fining companies knowingly hiring them and setting up some way to help those who want to come here the right way so they aren't complete drains on our medical system, schools and more.

I won't however make some asinine argument to scare people into my line of thinking on a subject bc it's easier just to scare people and blame those with little voice for everything. You often claim ur girl is from Peru right? How did she get here and did anyone in her family ever come illegally and actually kill someone in a dui traffic incident since it's so top of mind with you. Seriously though, what's the story there with her family? I'd like to hear it.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Funny thing is, I'm not against setting some more rigid standards for immigration as the country, it's needs, it's future is ever evolving. If someone does come here illegally I have no issue fining companies knowingly hiring them and setting up some way to help those who want to come here the right way so they aren't complete drains on our medical system, schools and more.

I won't however make some asinine argument to scare people into my line of thinking on a subject bc it's easier just to scare people and blame those with little voice for everything. You often claim ur girl is from Peru right? How did she get here and did anyone in her family ever come illegally and actually kill someone in a dui traffic incident since it's so top of mind with you. Seriously though, what's the story there with her family? I'd like to hear it.

Illegal aliens are committing a crime every second they are here. Hence Illegal alien.


Throw in tax evasion, forgery, identity theft, the ones who drive have no insurance or license. Add another crime.


My woman came here on a work visa got her MBA while here. Since Only her brother is here He came the same way. They take offense as legal immigrants and future US citizens that 20 million people cut the line.

I would love to hear your views if one of your family members was killed or injured by an illegal. Lets see if you still want amnesty for them


Sure illegal aliens are such altar boys and hardly commit crimes

http://www.usillegalaliens.com/impacts_of_illegal_immigration_crime.html


http://www.fairus.org/site/DocServer/crimestudy.pdf?docID=2321


Look at car thefts per capita in regards to illegals

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/5454136/illegal_immigration_rates_strongly.html?cat=7


Illegals are causing more crime per capita in others as well

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/5454136/illegal_immigration_rates_strongly.html?cat=7

[spoon]

Illegal aliens are committing a crime every second they are here. Hence Illegal alien.


Throw in tax evasion, forgery, identity theft, the ones who drive have no insurance or license. Add another crime.


My woman came here on a work visa got her MBA while here. Since Only her brother is here He came the same way. They take offense as legal immigrants and future US citizens that 20 million people cut the line

I would love to hear your views if one of your family members was killed or injured by an illegal. Lets see if you still want amnesty for them


Sure illegal aliens are such altar boys and hardly commit crimes

http://www.usillegalaliens.com/impacts_of_illegal_immigration_crime.html

Read more carefully bc I'm not sure why you think I'm for amnesty at all. Also, I'd be mad at anyone, illegal or legal, who killed a family member. Your argument is insanely stupid and offensive. Who the fuck would even say something like, "I would love to hear..."

Your hyperbole is so over the top it's hardly worth discussing. Just like the link you used to help your argument. Altar boys was exactly the claim I was making illegals out to be and I'm 100% for amnesty...you nailed it. Here comes your calling card. :wallbash:

[spoon]

Oh and community contribution BLOGS are proof sources now too? Oh God this is as bad as when Bulldogcakes quoted content from HIS OWN BLOG to prove his asinine point.

So what I took from that JCGrant blog was that anything that is higher in higher illegal immigrant areas is bc of said immigrants right!? As someone said in the comments illegals have been linked to higher ice cream sales .

[epo]

I can't wait for Wrestlingfan to make every thread on this board about immigration.

[spoon]

I can't wait for Wrestlingfan to make every thread on this board about immigration.

You're just ok with it bc John Khun is an altar boy illegal immigrant.

[epo]

You're just ok with it bc John Khun is an altar boy illegal immigrant.

Absolutely. My policy is that if I haven't personal inspected your birth certificate for authenticity, then I assume you are illegal.

Thats just how I roll.

[spoon]

So Kevin checks out?

If not tell him 100 US Dollar = 10,623.0 Albanian Leke.

[underdog]

I can't wait for Wrestlingfan to make every thread on this board about immigration.

He hasn't?

[StanUpshaw]

Pretty soon there will be nothing but WF immigration threads, Cialis spam posts, and Fuzzybutt asking for advice about dryer sheets and 3-ring notebooks.

[spoon]

Ha!

:lol:

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Read more carefully bc I'm not sure why you think I'm for amnesty at all. Also, I'd be mad at anyone, illegal or legal, who killed a family member. Your argument is insanely stupid and offensive. Who the fuck would even say something like, "I would love to hear..."

Your hyperbole is so over the top it's hardly worth discussing. Just like the link you used to help your argument. Altar boys was exactly the claim I was making illegals out to be and I'm 100% for amnesty...you nailed it. Here comes your calling card. :wallbash:

How is it offensive? Having a family member killed by an American citizen is horrible but done by an illegal alien makes it even more painful because these people are not supposed to be here. Think of how many people would be alive if these people stayed in their countries

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I can't wait for Wrestlingfan to make every thread on this board about immigration.

I would love if every thread could be that the Brewers wont make the playoffs in 2011 even with Greinke

[Barnaby Jones]

How is it offensive? Having a family member killed by an American citizen is horrible but done by an illegal alien makes it even more painful because these people are not supposed to be here. Think of how many people would be alive if these people stayed in their countries

Ah, the bullshit WF fallacy spreads to even more threads! He's apparently convinced that being here illegally causes people to drive drunk, and that it would be impossible for any of those illegals to have been driving while drunk if they had come here legally!

Just shut the fuck up and keep it to your one embarrassment of a thread where absolutely nobody agrees with you!!!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Ah, facts WF points out to even more threads! He's convinced that being here illegally causes people to drive drunk, since they are ignorant of our drunk driving laws
VALID POINTS of a thread where absolutely at least 70% of the country agrees!!!

fixed

[Dudeman]

.

[TripleSkeet]

How is it offensive? Having a family member killed by an American citizen is horrible but done by an illegal alien makes it even more painful because these people are not supposed to be here. Think of how many people would be alive if these people stayed in their countries

Thats the stupidest thing Ive ever read. Its such a child mentality. Thats the kind of thinking thats fucked up this country. Something bad happens to me, so let me see how many people I can blame. If its a legal citizen I guess you can only blame him, but if its an illegal you blame the whole government.

How about this, if somebody kills someone else, either accidentally or on purpose, its their fault. And JUST THEIR FAULT.

[Dude!]

fixed

when all the commie fags
and retards
don't agree with you
then you surely must be right

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Thats the stupidest thing Ive ever read. Its such a child mentality. Thats the kind of thinking thats fucked up this country. Something bad happens to me, so let me see how many people I can blame. If its a legal citizen I guess you can only blame him, but if its an illegal you blame the whole government.

How about this, if somebody kills someone else, either accidentally or on purpose, its their fault. And JUST THEIR FAULT.

Yes you can blame the government if he is here illegally and especially in a case like this.

http://www.lohud.com/article/201012300396

"Earlier this year, federal officials had initiated deportation proceedings against Amay, a native of Ecuador. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents took the illegal immigrant into custody March 22 upon his release from Westchester County jail, where he had served four months of a six-month sentence for drunken driving with his infant son in the car.

Paul Amay was out on $10,000 bail pending a deportation hearing Jan. 28 that now has been canceled because of this latest charge."


Or in another one like this for example

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/aug/2/illegal-immigrant-killed-nun-released-by-feds/?clear_cache_true


Enough of the self righteous drivel. I would love to hear your reaction if an illegal kills one of your family members.

[foodcourtdruide]

Yes you can blame the government if he is here illegally and especially in a case like this.

http://www.lohud.com/article/201012300396

"Earlier this year, federal officials had initiated deportation proceedings against Amay, a native of Ecuador. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents took the illegal immigrant into custody March 22 upon his release from Westchester County jail, where he had served four months of a six-month sentence for drunken driving with his infant son in the car.

Paul Amay was out on $10,000 bail pending a deportation hearing Jan. 28 that now has been canceled because of this latest charge."


Or in another one like this for example

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/aug/2/illegal-immigrant-killed-nun-released-by-feds/?clear_cache_true


Enough of the self righteous drivel. I would love to hear your reaction if an illegal kills one of your family members.

WF is right. I'd like to point to all of his threads attacking the governments inactions against drivers who speed. He keeps posting that if law enforcement just took speeding more seriously, then many people would still be alive. As he always says, "if they weren't ALLOWED to speed, no one would have died".

Also, what an insane thought, as if TS would be upset if an illegal immigrant killed one of his family members, but not if it was a legal citizen. Way to completely miss his point.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

WF is right. I'd like to point to all of his threads attacking the governments inactions against drivers who speed. He keeps posting that if law enforcement just took speeding more seriously, then many people would still be alive. As he always says, "if they weren't ALLOWED to speed, no one would have died".

Also, what an insane thought, as if TS would be upset if an illegal immigrant killed one of his family members, but not if it was a legal citizen. Way to completely miss his point.

Well people caught speeding get a summons.. An illegal caught drunk driving should be deported. GET IT?

Of course TS would be upset if it was a legal citizen killed one of his family members, but you miss the point again.

What part of if the illegal aliens were not here and our laws were enforced people would be alive.???????

You see the crimes of drunk driving by illegals as just a drunk driving issue when in fact its also an illegal alien issue. If they were not here they wouldnt be on the roads.

[booster11373]

I can't wait for Wrestlingfan to make every thread on this board about immigration.

Its all part of his attempt to create the unified field of stupidity

[underdog]

You see the crimes of drunk driving by illegals as just a drunk driving issue when in fact its also an illegal alien issue. If they were not here they wouldnt be on the roads.

And if the guy's wife hadn't argued with him, keeping him in the house 5 minutes later than normal 6 years ago, he wouldn't have been in that exact place at that time and never would have been in the accident. Therefore, it's his wife's fault.

[foodcourtdruide]

Well people caught speeding get a summons.. An illegal caught drunk driving should be deported. GET IT?

Of course TS would be upset if it was a legal citizen killed one of his family members, but you miss the point again.

What part of if the illegal aliens were not here and our laws were enforced people would be alive.???????

You see the crimes of drunk driving by illegals as just a drunk driving issue when in fact its also an illegal alien issue. If they were not here they wouldnt be on the roads.

You can say "if *insert law here* was enforced more, *insert crime here* wouldn't have happened" for MANY MANY MANY things, but you never do. ONLY for illegal immigrants. I know your point exactly, you want us all to be especially mad because of someones immigration status, but we are not. We're not obsessed with it like you are.

[Crispy123]

You see the crimes of drunk driving by illegals as just a drunk driving issue when in fact its also an illegal alien issue. If they were not here they wouldnt be on the roads.

This is a valid argument. But detaining and deporting would be costly and need to be carried out by a government agency. Aren't you against that as well?

[foodcourtdruide]

You can say "if *insert law here* was enforced more, *insert crime here* wouldn't have happened" for MANY MANY MANY things, but you never do. ONLY for illegal immigrants. I know your point exactly, you want us all to be especially mad because of someones immigration status, but we are not. We're not obsessed with it like you are.

And if you want to know WHY we are not especially mad, it is for the same reason you are not especially mad when you hear about someone dying as the result of un-enforced speeding laws.

[foodcourtdruide]

This is a valid argument. But detaining and deporting would be costly and need to be carried out by a government agency. Aren't you against that as well?

It's as valid of an argument as saying the government is at fault for traffic related deaths for not having a highway patrol officer posted every 1,000 feet. It's probably true, but totally irrelevant.

[foodcourtdruide]

Here are some stats WF, sorry they're not from a blog.
http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2010/tables/10s1072.pdf

Can you believe how many people die a year from speeding? Since your concern is citizens being killed by illegal behavior that goes unenforced, I'm going to wait for you to start posting speeding stories.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

This is a valid argument. But detaining and deporting would be costly and need to be carried out by a government agency. Aren't you against that as well?

We already have ICE. Another agency wouldn't be needed

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Here are some stats WF, sorry they're not from a blog.
http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2010/tables/10s1072.pdf

Can you believe how many people die a year from speeding? Since your concern is citizens being killed by illegal behavior that goes unenforced, I'm going to wait for you to start posting speeding stories.

Yes, and there are thousands of people who die from not wearing their seatbelts. Youre missing the point.


It doesnt make it any better for someones family killed by a a citizen but you still miss the point about people whoa re not supposed to be here!!!!


The government has failed to adhere to the constitution and the subsequent amnesty laws by allowing 20 million people to flood the border or overstay their visa. Again refer to article 4 section 4.


Also the people who knowlingly hire and rent to them need to be held liable.

[foodcourtdruide]

Yes, and there are thousands of people who die from not wearing their seatbelts. Youre missing the point.


It doesnt make it any better for someones family killed by a a citizen but you still miss the point about people whoa re not supposed to be here!!!!


The government has failed to adhere to the constitution and the subsequent amnesty laws by allowing 20 million people to flood the border or overstay their visa. Again refer to article 4 section 4.


Also the people who knowlingly hire and rent to them need to be held liable.

Maybe I shouldn't beat around the bush regarding what my point is..

You cite concerns of Americans safety as the reason you obsess over this issue, however, I am bringing up another situation where increased enforcement of the law would save more lives. You NEVER post about speeding, so my conclusion is your real reason for having a viceral hatred of illegal immigrants is NOT concerns of safety. I think it's a reasonable conclusion to come to.

[spoon]

Also the people who knowlingly hire and rent to them need to be held liable.

Yes, and if you simply posted your feelings here versus using fear tactics people may actually discuss it with you. However, you wear your hate on your sleeve and it's pretty pathetic being that you live in the US and should realize it's past and the ideals it was formed under. Your drunk driving kick literally mirrors the likes of right wing media at this point and smells completely of pied piper mentality. Oh wait, your not being led to a bad conclusion, this all smells of the "Kitty Genovese Syndrome"...right!?

:wallbash:

[TripleSkeet]

Yes, and there are thousands of people who die from not wearing their seatbelts. Youre missing the point.


It doesnt make it any better for someones family killed by a a citizen but you still miss the point about people whoa re not supposed to be here!!!!


The government has failed to adhere to the constitution and the subsequent amnesty laws by allowing 20 million people to flood the border or overstay their visa. Again refer to article 4 section 4.


Also the people who knowlingly hire and rent to them need to be held liable.

I think you are the one missing the point. Can they blame the government? Yes. Should they? No because thats just a fucking copout and not accepting of the fact that shit happens and you cant expect your government to protect you from it.

"They shouldnt be here" is such a fucking copout argument. Personally I think its fucking ridiculous that men get to determine what part of Earth people can and cant live. Its one thing to not want to grant people certain privileges, but to say "You cant be here", I dont know, something just feels inherintly wrong about being able to do that.

Im also against the seat belt laws. If I dont want to wear a seat belt I shouldnt have to. Its my life and if I want to risk it for comfort while Im driving I should be allowed to.

[StanUpshaw]

"They shouldnt be here" is such a fucking copout argument. Personally I think its fucking ridiculous that men get to determine what part of Earth people can and cant live. Its one thing to not want to grant people certain privileges, but to say "You cant be here", I dont know, something just feels inherintly wrong about being able to do that.

You can own Mother Nature, man.

[foodcourtdruide]

I think you are the one missing the point. Can they blame the government? Yes. Should they? No because thats just a fucking copout and not accepting of the fact that shit happens and you cant expect your government to protect you from it.

"They shouldnt be here" is such a fucking copout argument. Personally I think its fucking ridiculous that men get to determine what part of Earth people can and cant live. Its one thing to not want to grant people certain privileges, but to say "You cant be here", I dont know, something just feels inherintly wrong about being able to do that.

Im also against the seat belt laws. If I dont want to wear a seat belt I shouldnt have to. Its my life and if I want to risk it for comfort while Im driving I should be allowed to.

Just to COMPLETELY derail the thread, I think the argument for seatbelt laws is by reducing injuries, they also reduce medical costs, which is as a whole a benefit to society. Honestly though, I can go either way with seatbelts and helmets. I see both points of view.

[foodcourtdruide]

Yes, and if you simply posted your feelings here versus using fear tactics people may actually discuss it with you. However, you wear your hate on your sleeve and it's pretty pathetic being that you live in the US and should realize it's past and the ideals it was formed under. Your drunk driving kick literally mirrors the likes of right wing media at this point and smells completely of pied piper mentality. Oh wait, your not being led to a bad conclusion, this all smells of the "Kitty Genovese Syndrome"...right!?

:wallbash:

I agree with spoon. It's one thing to say, "illegal immigrants are a net negative to the United States and here's why" and another to say, "ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS WILL KILL YOUR MOTHER".

No one is buying that our lives are in danger because of illegal immigrants. It's a stupid argument. It would sound just as stupid if you said our lives were in danger due to redheaded people, and posted an article everytime one of them killed someone driving drunk.

[spoon]

well let's be honest with ourselves, redheads are dangerous

[StanUpshaw]

well let's be honest with ourselves, redheads are dangerous

Tell me about it! We should have learned our lesson with the filthy Irish, let's not make the same mistake with the Mexicans!

[KC2OSO]

Stop immigration entirely.
Just a thought.

[booster11373]

Stop immigration entirely.
Just a thought.

Allow Immigration but I'm totally against emigration

[spoon]

Allow Immigration but I'm totally against emigration

WF is still for segregation though. He's not just against everything.

[KC2OSO]

WF is still for segregation though. He's not just against everything.
I don't think WF would be against it if we could just get together as a country. WF?
Mepersonally I give it up first that I don't mint mind if my daughter dances with werewolves.
What we have to do is get together as a nation.

[spoon]

I don't think WF would be against it if we could just get together as a country. WF?
Mepersonally I give it up first that I don't mint mind if my daughter dates a black guy.
Go!

Good, can we have her number for Dash now or later?

[KC2OSO]

Good, can we have her number for Dash now or later?
She's 3. I'll give it to you later.:smoke:

[spoon]

15 years and he's good to go!

For Hottub, 9 years tops.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

WF is still for segregation though. He's not just against everything.

Wrong!!! My name isn't Anthony Cumia

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I don't think WF would be against it if we could just get together as a country. WF?
Mepersonally I give it up first that I don't mint mind if my daughter dances with werewolves.
What we have to do is get together as a nation.

I wish there were more legal Colombians, Dominicans Brasilians, Filipinas and Lebanese women here. They are some of the finest looking women around

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I think you are the one missing the point. Can they blame the government? Yes. Should they? No because thats just a fucking copout and not accepting of the fact that shit happens and you cant expect your government to protect you from it.

"They shouldnt be here" is such a fucking copout argument. Personally I think its fucking ridiculous that men get to determine what part of Earth people can and cant live. Its one thing to not want to grant people certain privileges, but to say "You cant be here", I dont know, something just feels inherintly wrong about being able to do that.

Im also against the seat belt laws. If I dont want to wear a seat belt I shouldnt have to. Its my life and if I want to risk it for comfort while Im driving I should be allowed to.

Of course there will always be people to slip thru the cracks. However why shouldnt blame the governent local, state feds if an illegal is here with multiple DWI's

Why shouldnt a country have borders? Each house is divided by a fence or property line. Disagree with our laws, then lobby Congress to have them repealed.


I do agree with you on the seatbelt laws. Its your body and you shouldn't be required to wear one. Same thing with certain drugs like Pot. Legalize the fucking thing already

[StanUpshaw]

Why only certain drugs? If it's your body, then why does it matter if it's MJ or heroin or 40 mule team borax?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Yes, and if you simply posted your feelings here versus using fear tactics people may actually discuss it with you. However, you wear your hate on your sleeve and it's pretty pathetic being that you live in the US and should realize it's past and the ideals it was formed under. Your drunk driving kick literally mirrors the likes of right wing media at this point and smells completely of pied piper mentality. Oh wait, your not being led to a bad conclusion, this all smells of the "Kitty Genovese Syndrome"...right!?

:wallbash:


Ive posted numerous times about the employers and landlords. Look, Im not going to go out and just bash anyone who looks brown over the head like what is happening on Staten Island Thats counterproductive and behavior of a savage. However theres nothing wrong about voicing an opinion of my opposition to the illegal immigration problem when the vast majority of people agree with me.

Contrary to whats assumed here, I am not afraid to leave the house thinking that theres some drunken illegal who might be a redhead who's main purpose is to run me over

I agree there are a lot who want to punish only the illegals, but when the demand for them like the employers and landlords is never brought up, then it doesnt solve the problem

[WRESTLINGFAN]

To the presidents credit. He is doing a better job than Dubya on this issue


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/25/AR2010072501790.html

[underdog]

I wish there were more legal Colombians, Dominicans Brasilians, Filipinas and Lebanese women here. They are some of the finest looking women around

Lebanese women? You must miss steve c.

[Bob Impact]

We all know the thing this country really needs less of is mastication.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Obama has a challenger

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ewvBUzOkLPE?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ewvBUzOkLPE?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>


Well at least he's not a Palin supporter :clap:

[StanUpshaw]

UFC...champ???

[Gutter]

UFC...champ???

hahahahahahaha

did they mistake him for Edgar? hahaha

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Ive been critical of Obama but the NY Post is going a bit too far. On the cover they had a picture of Obama in shorts and flip flops criticizing him for dressing like that in Hawaii. Is that the best they got?

[A.J.]

Ive been critical of Obama but the NY Post is going a bit too far. On the cover they had a picture of Obama in shorts and flip flops criticizing him for dressing like that in Hawaii. Is that the best they got?

No man should wear flip flops.

[NickyL0885]

No man should wear flip flops.

I love flip flops. Can't wait till I can wear mine again.

[Dude!]

I love flip flops. Can't wait till I can wear mine again.

what's holding you back?
waiting for a toe transplant?

[Zorro]

No man should wear flip flops.

Nothing more annoying than a man on the subway in flip-flops throwing a hissy fit when his feet are stepped on.

[NickyL0885]

what's holding you back?
waiting for a toe transplant?

It's the winter, silly.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The White House is a victim of the housing bubble.

http://www.11alive.com/news/national/story.aspx?storyid=171135&catid=166

[spoon]

The White House is a victim of the housing bubble.

http://www.11alive.com/news/national/story.aspx?storyid=171135&catid=166


What would you expect? Look who moved in! :innocent:

[WRESTLINGFAN]

What would you expect? Look who moved in! :innocent:

Poor guy can't catch a break. Most powerful black man on the planet and lives in government housing :innocent:

[TripleSkeet]

What would you expect? Look who moved in! :innocent:

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The same SEIU that spent tens of millions of dollars to get Obama elected and to implement Obamacare gets a waiver

http://www.naturalnews.com/031181_Obamacare_waivers.html

And in Colorado

http://www.istockanalyst.com/article/viewiStockNews/articleid/4853664



On a good note



http://www.greeleygazette.com/press/?p=8343

[Syd]

It's not going to get overturned -- if there's one thing the SCOTUS can be counted on is to rule in favor of federal authority.

[zildjian361]

gas has already gone up in 45cents in the last month. it' a start.

2nd post in this thread after Gvac!! :smoke::drunk:

[WRESTLINGFAN]

at least $4 a gallon by summer. Where will be the cries of Baracks an oil man?

[Dude!]

at least $4 a gallon by summer. Where will be the cries of Baracks an oil man?

of course not!

that, like 'homelessness'
is a topic the press pushes
only when there's a repub prez

(not to mention gitmo)

[WRESTLINGFAN]

of course not!

that, like 'homelessness'
is a topic the press pushes
only when there's a repub prez

(not to mention gitmo)

Food prices rising as a result of inflation, The economy still in the sewer. Its all good, we got a cool hip President who loves his private Paul McCartney concerts at the WH

[hanso]

Wrong, wrong and wrong.
Obama is not from oil. SS stayed the same for the elderly due to no inflation. And Corps made 1.5 T in Dec.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Salazar must be shitting a brick in his cowboy hat


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-02-03/u-s-administration-in-contempt-over-gulf-drill-ban-judge-rules.html

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Oh no once he loses Matt Damon

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theticket/20110303/pl_yblog_theticket/matt-damon-joins-the-growing-list-of-celebrities-unhappy-with-president-obamaa

[Furtherman]

http://www.leftfair.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/crazy_harry.jpg

[WRESTLINGFAN]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_wDezxgIFlHQ/S8KUl89DS-I/AAAAAAAAACM/ysVTOe5PJFQ/s400/madloved.jpg