Obama - Worst President Ever?

[west milly Tom]

Explain how you're not being arbitrary. Explain specifically how the "failures" you've been repeating are obviously failures because, no, you've not done that. You've simply declared them failures seemingy based on you not agreeing ideologically with what was done or not done. That doesn't make something a success or a failure.

I've got no problem calling him out when he fucks up, but so far the things you're harping on are things where we don't know whether it's a fuck up or a success.



I'm not going to relist all of the things I previously stated. Semantics get a little tiresome sometimes. The case is he's been proven as weak in the eyes of other world powers from jumpstreet. That's a fact and bad for obvious reasons. You can say these were insignificant issues however many times as you'd like.

Next, his economic policy has driven this country further down the shit hole. Wall street has no confidence in his plan, a plan which still has no shape other than to spend tons of money we don't have.
The later of the two scares me the most. The average recession subsides after 18 months or so. His ass backward social economics have already made things worse. The economy would be better off if he did nothing.

[Syd]

I'm not going to relist all of the things I previously stated. Semantics get a little tiresome sometimes. The case is he's been proven as weak in the eyes of other world powers from jumpstreet. That's a fact and bad for obvious reasons. You can say these were insignificant issues however many times as you'd like.

How has he been proven weak?

The economy would be better off if he did nothing.

meanwhile, back in reality, the inaction regarding Lehman is widely considered to be the tipping point when the recession spread to all corners.

[west milly Tom]

How has he been proven weak?



meanwhile, back in reality, the inaction regarding Lehman is widely considered to be the tipping point when the recession spread to all corners.


Lehman never happens if Frank and Dodd, don't force them to lend to unqualified buyers because of their skin color, in reality.

[Syd]

protip: they had nothing to do with lending to brown people

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/53802.html

* More than 84 percent of the subprime mortgages in 2006 were issued by private lending institutions.

* Private firms made nearly 83 percent of the subprime loans to low- and moderate-income borrowers that year.

* Only one of the top 25 subprime lenders in 2006 was directly subject to the housing law that's being lambasted by conservative critics.

sorry to burst your xenophobic bubble

[TheMojoPin]

I'm not going to relist all of the things I previously stated. Semantics get a little tiresome sometimes. The case is he's been proven as weak in the eyes of other world powers from jumpstreet. That's a fact and bad for obvious reasons. You can say these were insignificant issues however many times as you'd like.

It's not a fact. It's your opinion. A fact is an unimpeachable bit of information proven beyond any doubt. Secondly, no president is going to be able to make statements that aren't going to rejected or opposed by other nations in the world. To say his foreign policy opinions have been proven to be failures by theeir rejection or denouncement b other nations doesn't "prove" anything. Thirdly, I didn't ask you to relist anything. Your argument has been to do nothing but list things without any insight and explanation outside of you disagreeing with them based on your personal politics or you being "scared."

Next, his economic policy has driven this country further down the shit hole. Wall street has no confidence in his plan, a plan which still has no shape other than to spend tons of money we don't have.
The later of the two scares me the most. The average recession subsides after 18 months or so. His ass backward social economics have already made things worse. The economy would be better off if he did nothing.

First of all, this isn't an "average recession." Secondly, the statement that the economy would be better off if he hadn't done anything is supremely debatale, to say the very least, and tremendously unlikely. The plan is a longterm one that isn't goin to see serious impact for at least months. The success or failure of the plan is not driven by the stock market right now.

Christ, you keep responding to me like I'm saying he's done a good job...I DON'T KNOW IF HE HAS. NONE OF US DO. All of things you're declaring to be busts we need to wait and see what the fuck happens.

[keithy_19]

It's not a fact. It's your opinion. A fact is an unimpeachable bit of information proven beyond any doubt. Secondly, no president is going to be able to make statements that aren't going to rejected or opposed by other nations in the world. To say his foreign policy opinions have been proven to be failures by theeir rejection or denouncement b other nations doesn't "prove" anything. Thirdly, I didn't ask you to relist anything. Your argument has been to do nothing but list things without any insight and explanation outside of you disagreeing with them based on your personal politics or you being "scared."



First of all, this isn't an "average recession." Secondly, the statement that the economy would be better off if he hadn't done anything is supremely debatale, to say the very least, and tremendously unlikely. The plan is a longterm one that isn't goin to see serious impact for at least months. The success or failure of the plan is not driven by the stock market right now.
Christ, you keep responding to me like I'm saying he's done a good job...I DON'T KNOW IF HE HAS. NONE OF US DO. All of things you're declaring to be busts we need to wait and see what the fuck happens.

Mojo. Obama got into office and so far nothing good has happened. In fact, this morning I stepped off of my curb and twisted my ankle. Where was he when I needed him?

:glurps:

[Jujubees2]

Mojo. Obama got into office and so far nothing good has happened. In fact, this morning I stepped off of my curb and twisted my ankle. Where was he when I needed him?

:glurps:

And wait until you see the bill for that x-ray. Yeah, he's going to fix healthcare!

[TheMojoPin]

Mojo. Obama got into office and so far nothing good has happened. In fact, this morning I stepped off of my curb and twisted my ankle. Where was he when I needed him?

:glurps:

Saving a bunch of orphans trapped by a fire!

[Jujubees2]

Saving a bunch of orphans trapped by a fire!

They probably weren't even Americans.

[TheMojoPin]

They probably weren't even Americans.

And the blaze was actually started by them burning American flags.

[Gvac]

And the blaze was actually started by them burning American flags.

I wouldn't doubt it

http://newsbusters.org/static/2007/10/2007-10-01Time-Obama3.jpg

[keithy_19]

I wouldn't doubt it

http://newsbusters.org/static/2007/10/2007-10-01Time-Obama3.jpg

That Obama. Cares more about his cock than his country.

[disneyspy]

That Obama. Cares more about his cock than his country.

what healthy american man doesnt?

[scottinnj]

what healthy american man doesnt?

I know I'd spill the beans if commies threatened my cock. They can beat me, cut me, electrocute me, torture and kill my wife and kids, but I have to draw the line at cock abuse.

[A.J.]

That Obama. Cares more about his cock than his country.

Many of our former Presidents could relate to that.

[JerseySean]

Lehman never happens if Frank and Dodd, don't force them to lend to unqualified buyers because of their skin color, in reality.

In all fairness, that was bi-partisan. Clinton started with Fannie and Freddy and Bush picked that up and campaigned in 04' based on the "ownership" society. That was a bi-partisan disaster

[angrymissy]

Saving a bunch of orphans trapped by a fire!

I bet he saved the black ones first.

[Syd]

In all fairness, that was bi-partisan. Clinton started with Fannie and Freddy and Bush picked that up and campaigned in 04' based on the "ownership" society. That was a bi-partisan disaster

That and the CRA only applied to deposit banks.

[Gvac]

I bet he saved the black ones first.

Racist.

Right now I wish I could go into a coma and be awakened when we have a new President. I can't bear to watch this maniac destroy my country.

[zildjian361]

shit since Obama has been in ,two of my Black friend's at work have been laid off.:annoyed:

[Bob Impact]

Mojo. Obama got into office and so far nothing good has happened. In fact, this morning I stepped off of my curb and twisted my ankle. Where was he when I needed him?

:glurps:

I bent a rim on my car last weekend.


I want it clear that I blame Obama.

[keithy_19]

In complete seriousness, it really pissed me off that he signed the stimulus bill behind closed doors. This bill is disgsutingly loaded with garbage and he said in his campaign there was going to be a new kind of Washington when he was elected. Same old political bullshit.

[TheMojoPin]

This bill is disgsutingly loaded with garbage

What percentage of it is earmarks, Keithy?

[keithy_19]

I'm thinking in terms of cost. 150 billion dollars in earmarks.

Both parties suck.

[A.J.]

Women are equal to men: but they now have their own White House Council. (http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/President-Obama-Announces-White-House-Council-on-Women-and-Girls/)

What is the EEOC for again?

[Syd]

to be fair, they only have 80% of the staff that other councils do

[A.J.]

to be fair, they only have 80% of the staff that other councils do

And they get a fraction of the pay?

[scottinnj]

Women are equal to men: but they now have their own White House Council. (http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/President-Obama-Announces-White-House-Council-on-Women-and-Girls/)

What is the EEOC for again?

The MIB use it as cover for their real operations.

[underdog]

This should be a poll.

[SonOfSmeagol]

Hey! Big surprise!

Put an asshole who can't figure out how to pay his taxes IN CHARGE OF THE IRS and THE TREASURY and what do you get?

Not fucking much.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090312/pl_nm/us_obama_grades

"President what's his name and Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner received failing grades for their efforts to revive the world's largest economy, according to participants in the latest Wall Street Journal forecasting survey."

[CofyCrakCocaine]

Hey! Big surprise!

Put an asshole who can't figure out how to pay his taxes IN CHARGE OF THE IRS and THE TREASURY and what do you get?

Not fucking much.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090312/pl_nm/us_obama_grades

"President what's his name and Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner received failing grades for their efforts to revive the world's largest economy, according to participants in the latest Wall Street Journal forecasting survey."

I wish you would vote in my Japs poll. Then I might accept what you say as the truth.

If you refuse, I hope you are raped by a tentacle demon.

[scottinnj]

I wish you would vote in my Japs poll. Then I might accept what you say as the truth.

If you refuse, I hope you are raped by a tentacle demon.

How did I do in the Jap/JAP poll? Did I choose wisely?

[SonOfSmeagol]

I wish you would vote in my Japs poll. Then I might accept what you say as the truth.

If you refuse, I hope you are raped by a tentacle demon.

Dammit man! I am truly torn between the three so obviously similar choices you offer in your poll! I cannot commit myself to one of them without compromising my views on the others!

[SonOfSmeagol]

"President's budget would produce $9.3 trillion in deficits over the next decade, more than four times the deficits of the last guy's presidency, congressional auditors said Friday."

"The new Congressional Budget Office figures offered a far more dire outlook for Obama's budget than the new administration predicted just last month — a deficit $2.3 trillion worse." (Great job 'economic team'!) "It's a prospect even the president's own budget director called unsustainable."

Suckers!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090320/ap_on_go_pr_wh/obama_budget

[TheMojoPin]

Projections like that don't take into account the inevitable raising of taxes.

I know people love the idea of taxes never being raised or being reduced, but we've reached a point where that's simply not feasable. If we expect this country to not only stay at the level its at, but to also grow and compete with China and the EU, then taxes are going to have to go up. The trick will be to try to kickstart the economy and overhaul how we're currently doing business to streamline and lessen the impact of these increases.

Republican or Democrat, whatever the plan for the future, taxes would have to go up within the next 5 years. It's simply not realistic to expect otherwise.

[SonOfSmeagol]

NO! I pay almost ONE-HALF of my income to taxes as it is. I do not want to pay more! I say less, much less, spending for inefficient, bureaucratic, wasteful civilian government at Federal, state, and local levels. I see it every day and there is so much waste in the Federal civilian gov’t as it is - they do not need more to spend! And, to be sure, more efficient Defense spending without compromising our superior global position.

NO more new taxes or tax increases! It is not inevitable! There are choices to be made and I choose not to pay more!

[TheMojoPin]

NO! I pay almost ONE-HALF of my income to taxes as it is. I do not want to pay more! I say less, much less, spending for inefficient, bureaucratic, wasteful civilian government at Federal, state, and local levels. I see it every day and there is so much waste in the Federal civilian gov’t as it is - they do not need more to spend! And, to be sure, more efficient Defense spending without compromising our superior global position.

NO more new taxes or tax increases! It is not inevitable! There are choices to be made and I choose not to pay more!


Sorry, you're going to have to. Americans simply aren't going to tolerate the huge spending cuts that would be necessary to indefinitely reduce taxes or keep them from being raised. Too many expectations in terms of public services would not be met and nobody would stand for it, you, me and everyone else included. Everyone likes to bemoan waste, but even if you trimmed the fat the US has reached a size and is expected to grow at rates that necessitate increasing tax rates. There's simply no way around it. That's why I hope someone, anyone, can come up with ideas to get the economy back on track so the tax increases can be offset.

The only way you're going to pay less taxes is if the US seriously regresses as a superpower. It's basically a question of what people want..."superpower" lives and beyond or less.

[The Jays]

Obama tried to walk through a window recently. What a fucking moron.

Bush tried to open a locked door and was ridiculed for years.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2009/01/28/2009-01-28_hey_bam_thats_not_the_door.html

Um, it just looks like he's walking past the window on his way to the door.

Just go ahead and keep trying to make up shit because your failure of a president was such a fucking moron that trying to open a locked door was the smartest fucking move of his entire administration.

I am so sick and tired of every god damn "Republican" just seething and waiting to jump on Obama for every god damn little thing he does, and all because Bush was fucking battered to the ground for his idiocy and every little WABC listeners and Fox News fan got their feelings hurt for 8 years because their own Messiah was nothing but a fucking monkey puppet having his strings pulled by some fat unapologetic douchebag, and no, I'm not talking about Rush Limbaugh, I'm talking about Cheney, a man who fucking shot someone in the face while he was in office. Shot someone while his country was at war in two fucking countries, and they have the fucking balls to rip Obama for going on the Tonight Show to talk to everyone about the AIG bullshit.

Fuck you.

[Dude!]

Um, it just looks like he's walking past the window on his way to the door.

Just go ahead and keep trying to make up shit because your failure of a president was such a fucking moron that trying to open a locked door was the smartest fucking move of his entire administration.

I am so sick and tired of every god damn "Republican" just seething and waiting to jump on Obama for every god damn little thing he does, and all because Bush was fucking battered to the ground for his idiocy and every little WABC listeners and Fox News fan got their feelings hurt for 8 years because their own Messiah was nothing but a fucking monkey puppet having his strings pulled by some fat unapologetic douchebag, and no, I'm not talking about Rush Limbaugh, I'm talking about Cheney, a man who fucking shot someone in the face while he was in office. Shot someone while his country was at war in two fucking countries, and they have the fucking balls to rip Obama for going on the Tonight Show to talk to everyone about the AIG bullshit.

Fuck you.

jay mohr gots dibs on your name dude
you need to change it now

[SonOfSmeagol]

Sorry, you're going to have to. Americans simply aren't going to tolerate the huge spending cuts that would be necessary to indefinitely reduce taxes or keep them from being raised. Too many expectations in terms of public services would not be met and nobody would stand for it, you, me and everyone else included. Everyone likes to bemoan waste, but even if you trimmed the fat the US has reached a size and is expected to grow at rates that necessitate increasing tax rates. There's simply no way around it. That's why I hope someone, anyone, can come up with ideas to get the economy back on track so the tax increases can be offset.

The only way you're going to pay less taxes is if the US seriously regresses as a superpower. It's basically a question of what people want..."superpower" lives and beyond or less.

Oh my. Who said “indefinitely reduce taxes”? I said keep them at or below the current levels – please at least. You have taken a defeatist attitude as if it’s in-fucking-evitable that they will go up and I say NO MORE. Federal taxes, state, county, property, excise, fuel, sales, capital gains, dividend, etc etc etc. Enough already!

MY expectations in terms of “public services” are that growth DOES NOT equal an increase in taxes. “:Bemoaning waste”… My god there is no much waste in Federal spending it is not even worth the cost of a joke anymore, and more is being added!!

Regression as a superpower is not an option!! NO! It is not an option to reduce the capabilities of our carrier groups, strategic air power, and submarine forces, and others. We own the seas and sky and that simply cannot change! I can actually see the seeds of that change happening with this administration and I say no! NO!

[SonOfSmeagol]

I am so sick and tired of every god damn "Republican" just seething and waiting to jump on Obama for every god damn little thing he does, and all because Bush was fucking battered to the ground for his idiocy and every little WABC listeners and Fox News fan got their feelings hurt for 8 years because their own Messiah was nothing but a fucking monkey puppet having his strings pulled by some fat unapologetic douchebag, and no, I'm not talking about Rush Limbaugh, I'm talking about Cheney, a man who fucking shot someone in the face while he was in office. Shot someone while his country was at war in two fucking countries, and they have the fucking balls to rip Obama for going on the Tonight Show to talk to everyone about the AIG bullshit.

Fuck you.

That's gotta be a 9+ on the R.A.N.T. scale!

Efficiency, content, presentation... Well done!

[TheMojoPin]

Oh my. Who said “indefinitely reduce taxes”? I said keep them at or below the current levels – please at least. You have taken a defeatist attitude as if it’s in-fucking-evitable that they will go up and I say NO MORE. Federal taxes, state, county, property, excise, fuel, sales, capital gains, dividend, etc etc etc. Enough already!

MY expectations in terms of “public services” are that growth DOES NOT equal an increase in taxes. “:Bemoaning waste”… My god there is no much waste in Federal spending it is not even worth the cost of a joke anymore, and more is being added!!

Regression as a superpower is not an option!! NO! It is not an option to reduce the capabilities of our carrier groups, strategic air power, and submarine forces, and others. We own the seas and sky and that simply cannot change! I can actually see the seeds of that change happening with this administration and I say no! NO!


I referred to both the idea of reducing taxes and keeping them at current levels in contrasting with the US maintaining its current "size" (in terms of capabilities, infrastrcuture, etc.) or getting even "bigger." It seems like you want it all and you want things to expand, yet you're not willing to realize that your investment in such expansion would have to expand as well.

I just don't think you're being realistic at all. I also don't see paying more taxes as automatically defeatist. I see the need that more taxes will be have to be paid, but I want that to happen with with achievement of an stronger economy and serious deficit reduction along with it.

Would you be open to a plan that involved a rasing of taxes once the economy was in better shape with the specific idea of reducing the deficit and then returning taxes to the previous level once that goal was achieved?

[keithy_19]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090321/ap_on_go_pr_wh/obama_budget

[TheMojoPin]

Reading is your friend, keithy.

[Gvac]

Try to enjoy this momentous time we're living in, gang. We're witnessing the crumbling of an empire.

The once great and proud United States of America is being toppled.

FROM THE INSIDE!

[keithy_19]

Reading is your friend, keithy.

And I read often, sir.

[TooLowBrow]

And I read often, sir.

good luck in the special olympics

[TheMojoPin]

Ya waterhead.

[A.J.]

Try to enjoy this momentous time we're living in, gang. We're witnessing the crumbling of an empire.

The once great and proud United States of America is being toppled.

FROM THE INSIDE!

Edward Gibbon is rolling over in his grave.

[SonOfSmeagol]

Would you be open to a plan that involved a rasing of taxes once the economy was in better shape with the specific idea of reducing the deficit and then returning taxes to the previous level once that goal was achieved?

I think the tax rate is high enough as it is. The idea of all this “stimulus” was/is to produce revenue that would come back to the gov’t in the form of corporate tax revenue increases and, payroll tax revenue for individuals employed. By worthwhile investment programs. And to kind of “kick-start” things. NOT to increase the rate of taxation of everyone to pay for it. I see some of this happening, along with unemployment benefits that are need to soften the blow.

But, this administration and the Congress leadership clearly clearly seem to want it all – stimulate the economy AND advance their agenda (on all fronts I might add) AND let everyone have their earmarks. Nothing’s changed and in fact “business as usual” has not only stayed the same but gotten worse! The “tough decisions” so claimed as essential are simply not being made and I don’t want to pay for it – I pay enough!

[TheMojoPin]

Even if they stripped all the "pork," you're still not paying enough if we expect the government to handle everything it handles now or that we want it to handle.

Like I said, more taxes is beyond Republican vs. Democrat...it's inevitable, at least temporarily, if the deficit is going to be reduced. Everyone claims they want "less spending," but nobody actually means it since the reality of "less spending" that allowed taxes to be held firm or lowered means giving up services most people don't want to give up or even less money to things like education or defense spending. If you REALLY want less spending and taxes held in place or lowered, we'd have to make some pretty serious sacrifices as a nation. I don't see people realistically accepting that at all.

[SonOfSmeagol]

I actually want the Federal govt to handle more with less. As I’ve said they are grossly inefficient and adding more Federal employees and other spending to civilian govt programs in most definitely not the answer. You think the private sector has fucked up recently? Just give it over to the Govt and see what happens!

I do not see the inevitability of higher taxes. As I’ve said I pay enough. I’m more than happy to sacrifice some of the bullshit civilian govt spending, and streamline – but not reduce – defense spending. As I’ve said I have seen absolutely none of the tough decisions being made by this administration and the Congress leaders (namely Pelosi) – the very decisions they claim are necessary. I stand by my assertion that they want it all, and they’re going to try to hand you the bill, and I say enough!

[The Jays]

We spend a shitload on defense spending already! Do we really need fucking robots that we can control by remote from half a world away, AND have troops there at the same time? Either one or the other. Also, do we really need to start wars that only make us less safe? Most of our defense money goes to private corporations anyway. What is the point of throwing more and more money at the problem in that aspect, while we end up enflaming our enemies for free?

Our country is responsible for making sure our unalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are ensured from being taken away, and I kinda lose hope in that when we spend a shitload of money on a war we can't even win and which makes us less safe than before, yet we can't even save or protect our own citizens in our own country when a known threat (hurricanes) destroys one of our cities because we failed to invest in one of the most basic items, infrastructure.

People pay higher taxes than others because it is on the backs of the lower classes that secures this country as being the home of the free and the brave that it is... it is the lowest paid workers in the country, doing the shit tasks that the other classes don't want to do, that form the foundation of our economy and our society. If someone makes a million dollars annually in this country, and another guy makes $10,000 annually in this country, then the guy who made a million has benefited more by working in this country than the one who made $10,000, therefore, he ought to be willing to pay more in taxes, because this country afforded him the benefit of earning so much money in one year. That is why I am against the flat tax, and am for taxing those who make more money than those who make less, because the one who make more have benefited more from the greatness that is our country, and it is a bit insulting that they would rather just take the money and run.

And at the most, you are paying 35 percent to the federal government. How are you paying half of your annual salary to the Federal government? If you are, then you obviously do not have a good accountant.

[CHUCKWAGONCOOK]

So.......Is Obama doing GOOD or BAD?

I know he hates the retards. That's a given.

[NickyL0885]

Tax the fuck out of the rich and stop the war. Put all the money to education, job creation, health care etc.


Speaking of health care. Bill Maher made a great point few weeks ago. Republicans are obviously against health care for all. They say "government shouldn't control health care. Doctors should". But in reality, Doctors dont. Insurance companies do. Also, if you see Michael Moores "Sicko", a cuban woman says "over here, we all get health care. But in america, a land with so much money and power, they cant give everyone health care" Why is it a shit country like that and other countries do this and we cant?

It bogles my mind sometimes.

[epo]

I do not see the inevitability of higher taxes.

As I’ve said I pay enough. I’m more than happy to sacrifice some of the bullshit civilian govt spending, and streamline – but not reduce – defense spending.

Those two statements contradict each other. Our domestic spending had already been trimmed down to the point of effecting our education system and our infrastructure so that they are becoming uncompetitive in the global economy.

Simply put, military spending must be reduced proportionally in the long-term for the United States to sustain its high standard of living. If you look at Donald Rumsfeld's original plans for the military, downsizing was obviously their plan too.

[CHUCKWAGONCOOK]

Tax the fuck out of the rich and stop the war. Put all the money to education, job creation, health care etc.


Speaking of health care. Bill Maher made a great point few weeks ago. Republicans are obviously against health care for all. They say "government shouldn't control health care. Doctors should". But in reality, Doctors dont. Insurance companies do. Also, if you see Michael Moores "Sicko", a cuban woman says "over here, we all get health care. But in america, a land with so much money and power, they cant give everyone health care" Why is it a shit country like that and other countries do this and we cant?

It bogles my mind sometimes.I went to the emergancy room last year because I was passing a Kidney Stone. Very Painful I might add. The lady a t the desk asked me if I had insurance. No, i did not. I said.

# weeks later I got a bill for 5,600 dollars. Insane I thought. I can't pay this. I went back to the hospital and talked to the lady in charge of billing. She told me that the U.S. Government along with the hospitals have insurance set up for people that have no insurance.

I filled out a few papers and was told not to worry about it.

If that's not health care. I'm not sure what is.

Just because it's not publicized, dosn't mean that there is no health care in place in this great country of ours. The United States of America.

[Coach]

Watched a thing on Jonestown on MSNBC earlier tonight..creeped me out that Jim Jones Implemented the exact same things that Obama is seeking to implement..public work groups, youth involvement, the whole nine yards...and they were a socialist community.

[CHUCKWAGONCOOK]

Watched a thing on Jonestown on MSNBC earlier tonight..creeped me out that Jim Jones Implemented the exact same things that Obama is seeking to implement..public work groups, youth involvement, the whole nine yards...and they were a socialist community.
http://i365.photobucket.com/albums/oo92/chuckwagoncook_2008/039-1.jpg

[Coach]

http://i365.photobucket.com/albums/oo92/chuckwagoncook_2008/039-1.jpg
Is that an Obamian drinking the Kool Aid?

[NickyL0885]

I went to the emergancy room last year because I was passing a Kidney Stone. Very Painful I might add. The lady a t the desk asked me if I had insurance. No, i did not. I said.

# weeks later I got a bill for 5,600 dollars. Insane I thought. I can't pay this. I went back to the hospital and talked to the lady in charge of billing. She told me that the U.S. Government along with the hospitals have insurance set up for people that have no insurance.

I filled out a few papers and was told not to worry about it.

If that's not health care. I'm not sure what is.

Just because it's not publicized, dosn't mean that there is no health care in place in this great country of ours. The United States of America.

Well, we do have health care. But I meant affordable health care.

[CHUCKWAGONCOOK]

Well, we do have health care. But I meant affordable health care.
I thought paying..............NOTHING!!!! was fairly affordable. Wouldn't you say?

[CHUCKWAGONCOOK]

Is that an Obamian drinking the Kool Aid?When does this shit kick in?

http://i365.photobucket.com/albums/oo92/chuckwagoncook_2008/028-1.jpg

[Jujubees2]

I thought paying..............NOTHING!!!! was fairly affordable. Wouldn't you say?

You paid nothing. But those of us with insurance and every taxpayer paid something for your treatment.

[epo]

You paid nothing. But those of us with insurance and every taxpayer paid something for your treatment.

I want my money back on that one.

[CHUCKWAGONCOOK]

You paid nothing. But those of us with insurance and every taxpayer paid something for your treatment.
And you obviously think that Canada and Germany and other countries just magically make their health care appear, right?

[CHUCKWAGONCOOK]

You paid nothing. But those of us with insurance and every taxpayer paid something for your treatment.
One more thing.

Your saying this like I never had a job or payed for health insurance through an employer before.

I've always had a job and numerous times I've been employed and payed for health insurance.

Your acting like I'm a leach on society or something.

[Dude!]

i'd pay to have your stone put back in

[CHUCKWAGONCOOK]

i'd pay to have your stone put back in
You do that, Smart guy.

[Jujubees2]

One more thing.

Your saying this like I never had a job or payed for health insurance through an employer before.

I've always had a job and numerous times I've been employed and payed for health insurance.

Your acting like I'm a leach on society or something.

Hey, you're the one who said you paid NOTHING (your all caps).

[CHUCKWAGONCOOK]

Hey, you're the one who said you paid NOTHING (your all caps).
But I did pay nothing for that out patient work. Health Care provided for it when I had no Insurance.

All I'm saying is that there is a sort of national health care in place here in The U.S.A.

[keithy_19]

Tax the fuck out of the rich and stop the war. Put all the money to education, job creation, health care etc.


Speaking of health care. Bill Maher made a great point few weeks ago. Republicans are obviously against health care for all. They say "government shouldn't control health care. Doctors should". But in reality, Doctors dont. Insurance companies do. Also, if you see Michael Moores "Sicko", a cuban woman says "over here, we all get health care. But in america, a land with so much money and power, they cant give everyone health care" Why is it a shit country like that and other countries do this and we cant?

It bogles my mind sometimes.

I'm sure that the cuban woman who said that they all get health care is getting some of the best health care there is.:huh:

Knowing people who left Cuba to come to America(I dated a girl for nearly two years who's parents were from there) I know that health care in cuba is shit. I also wonder what status this women had in cuba. If she was rich she may have gotten the best care. I'm positive she wasn't poor.

[epo]

But I did pay nothing for that out patient work. Health Care provided for it when I had no Insurance.

All I'm saying is that there is a sort of national health care in place here in The U.S.A.

You are seriously out of your element on this one. Just be thankful that whatever state you were in had a social program to cover your situation.

[CHUCKWAGONCOOK]

You are seriously out of your element on this one. Just be thankful that whatever state you were in had a social program to cover your situation.
I guess posting the facts about what I encountered is "Out of my element".

So your telling me that having my health care taken care of for me is not a sort of Gov. Health care. How? It was!!

I guess you just don't get it , do you?

[epo]

I guess posting the facts about what I encountered is "Out of my element".

So your telling me that having my health care taken care of for me is not a sort of Gov. Health care. How? It was!!

I guess you just don't get it , do you?

You have absolutely zero clue about the nuts and bolts of the dynamics of the health care system in this country. When you say that "there is a sort of national health care in place here in The U.S.A.", you show an utter lack of understanding of our current system.

And as I said, you should be thankful that your state had a coverage program that took care of you. Not everyone in every situation is that lucky.

[keithy_19]

You have absolutely zero clue about the nuts and bolts of the dynamics of the health care system in this country. When you say that "there is a sort of national health care in place here in The U.S.A.", you show an utter lack of understanding of our current system.

And as I said, you should be thankful that your state had a coverage program that took care of you. Not everyone in every situation is that lucky.

I think that all states should have a coverage program. I'd be much more comfortable with that than with a national healthcare system where the federal government is running the show.

[epo]

I think that all states should have a coverage program. I'd be much more comfortable with that than with a national healthcare system where the federal government is running the show.

What would be the difference between a state program in each state vs. a federal program which covers all 50 states?

[The Jays]

I went to the emergancy room last year because I was passing a Kidney Stone. Very Painful I might add. The lady a t the desk asked me if I had insurance. No, i did not. I said.

# weeks later I got a bill for 5,600 dollars. Insane I thought. I can't pay this. I went back to the hospital and talked to the lady in charge of billing. She told me that the U.S. Government along with the hospitals have insurance set up for people that have no insurance.

I filled out a few papers and was told not to worry about it.

If that's not health care. I'm not sure what is.

Just because it's not publicized, dosn't mean that there is no health care in place in this great country of ours. The United States of America.

Then how come I have to pay a co-pay whenever I go to the doctor? Why did I have to pay for my ambulance ride a few years ago when I didn't have insurance? And, even if there was a health care system in place in this country, why would I not be told that ahead of time, and instead, have to plead with empty pockets before the doctor would tell me, "oh, don't worry, the US Government will get your back. We were just foolin' with you, just to see if we could get some money out of you." That sounds like the worst national health care that there could be, one where they would actually wait and see if they could get money from you before telling you it was already paid for.

[keithy_19]

What would be the difference between a state program in each state vs. a federal program which covers all 50 states?

I'm a big proponent of state rights. Personally, I'd rather the government not control the health care system, but allowing each state to run it would calm fears of the federal government becoming to big.

From what I hear from people in the health care industry they are agaisnt socialized health care. My brother works at a hospital and they all seem pretty vocal about that.

[The Jays]

Watched a thing on Jonestown on MSNBC earlier tonight..creeped me out that Jim Jones Implemented the exact same things that Obama is seeking to implement..public work groups, youth involvement, the whole nine yards...and they were a socialist community.

Yes, obviously the next move for Obama is to kill a US Congressman and then make us all drink Kool-Aid... it'd probably be purple, because, you know...

[jauble]

Yes, obviously the next move for Obama is to kill a US Congressman and then make us all drink Kool-Aid... it'd probably be purple, because, you know...

Because purple is deliciou...oh I see where we are going here.

[CofyCrakCocaine]

Because purple is deliciou...oh I see where we are going here.

DID SOMEBODY SAY KOOL-AID??????

[HBox]

I went to the emergancy room last year because I was passing a Kidney Stone. Very Painful I might add. The lady a t the desk asked me if I had insurance. No, i did not. I said.

# weeks later I got a bill for 5,600 dollars. Insane I thought. I can't pay this. I went back to the hospital and talked to the lady in charge of billing. She told me that the U.S. Government along with the hospitals have insurance set up for people that have no insurance.

I filled out a few papers and was told not to worry about it.

If that's not health care. I'm not sure what is.

Just because it's not publicized, dosn't mean that there is no health care in place in this great country of ours. The United States of America.

That's called Charity Care. Read more about it here. It is most certainly NOT health care coverage. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charity_care)

If everyone had access to health care coverage what you are talking about would not exist.

[The Jays]

Hahahahaha, chuckwagoncook was a low income patient.

[The Jays]

Oh, btw, here is a table of the low and high of tax percentages for the federal government over the 20th century till today. (http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=19)

We're not even talking about Eisenhower rates here, you know, during that whole 1950s era that was all aboot the American Dream and new highways and shit and the rate was 90%. We're talking about a 39.6% rate... the same during Clinton, and which happened to produce a budget surplus. And yet, we have douchebags who threaten to "go Galt" over 4.6% raise?

[angrymissy]

I went to the emergancy room last year because I was passing a Kidney Stone. Very Painful I might add. The lady a t the desk asked me if I had insurance. No, i did not. I said.

# weeks later I got a bill for 5,600 dollars. Insane I thought. I can't pay this. I went back to the hospital and talked to the lady in charge of billing. She told me that the U.S. Government along with the hospitals have insurance set up for people that have no insurance.

I filled out a few papers and was told not to worry about it.

If that's not health care. I'm not sure what is.

Just because it's not publicized, dosn't mean that there is no health care in place in this great country of ours. The United States of America.

Oh you should tell that to Silera and Alkey, they must have just been stupid and went bankrupt over health costs for nothing.

[angrymissy]

One more thing.

Your saying this like I never had a job or payed for health insurance through an employer before.

I've always had a job and numerous times I've been employed and payed for health insurance.

Your acting like I'm a leach on society or something.

And guess what happens to people who have a job, but no insurance?

[TheMojoPin]

I'm a big proponent of state rights. Personally, I'd rather the government not control the health care system, but allowing each state to run it would calm fears of the federal government becoming to big.

From what I hear from people in the health care industry they are agaisnt socialized health care. My brother works at a hospital and they all seem pretty vocal about that.

I'm always curious as to why people "trust" state governments across the board over the fed. A few states arguably have their shit together, but most are totally out of practice of taking on the federal initiatives people want them to handle because they've basically not been self-sustaining governments for the better part of a century or more or at all in the first place. As much as a mess as the federal government is, I'm far more confident in it than most of the state governments.

[A.J.]

I'm always curious as to why people "trust" state governments across the board over the fed.

I guess that since all politics is local, state government is likely to be more in touch with the needs of its citizens rather than the federal government.

Jefferson spoke of this: for example, what's good for New York may not be good for Idaho...and vicey versey.

[Dude!]

I guess that since all politics is local, state government is likely to be more in touch with the needs of its citizens rather than the federal government.

Jefferson spoke of this: for example, what's good for New York may not be good for Idaho...and vicey versey.

there was no idaho when jefferson was alive

[A.J.]

there was no idaho when jefferson was alive

I wasn't quoting Jefferson verbatim. That's why I said "for example".

[Dude!]

I wasn't quoting Jefferson verbatim. That's why I said "for example".

when you put the colon after "Jefferson spoke of this"
that implies what comes after
is a quote
or a paraphrase

its just that i expect more of you than the others

[A.J.]

I'm sorry I failed you.

[TheMojoPin]

I guess that since all politics is local, state government is likely to be more in touch with the needs of its citizens rather than the federal government.

Jefferson spoke of this: for example, what's good for New York may not be good for Idaho...and vicey versey.

Perhaps, but I just don't see the ability of most states to actually handle the things a lot of people want the fed to dump on them.

[Coach]

Yes, obviously the next move for Obama is to kill a US Congressman and then make us all drink Kool-Aid... it'd probably be purple, because, you know...
Bet he likes it with Lotsa Shugah!

But really, the people interviewed were saying how Jones was all about change...I swear if you heard the people without the mention of Jim Jones..you would have thought it was about Obama. That was what really creeped me out.

[The Jays]

So, basically, you fear change, the last 8 years were just peachy for you, you love killing Muslim babies, and you love Jesus.

[TheMojoPin]

But really, the people interviewed were saying how Jones was all about change...I swear if you heard the people without the mention of Jim Jones..you would have thought it was about Obama. That was what really creeped me out.

You're clearly hearing what you want to hear.

[epo]

Bet he likes it with Lotsa Shugah!

But really, the people interviewed were saying how Jones was all about change...I swear if you heard the people without the mention of Jim Jones..you would have thought it was about Obama. That was what really creeped me out.

You could make the same "argument" about anybody who led a "social movement" in just about any point in history. The demands of the rhetoric of social change simply demand it.

[The Jays]

Yeah, I mean, I was reading about John Adams the other day, and when I started to read how the opposition of the colonies to the Stamp Act was because the Stamp Act deprived the American colonists of two basic rights guaranteed to all Englishmen, rights to be taxed only by consent and to be tried only by a jury of one's peers, I mean, I was mad creeped out at how much it sounded like Obama. But then I pulled out my Bible, opened it up to Corinthians 20:10 and re-assured myself that the Republicans would return to power in 2010, and at that time, they will begin impeachment proceedings on Obama for breaking a yet-to-be-discovered law that only white people are allowed to be President, and then this country will be back on track.

[scottinnj]

DID SOMEBODY SAY KOOL-AID??????

OH YEAHHHH!

[scottinnj]

Corinthians 20:10

I was right with you until then, but you tricked us!

I was going to sign up for your blog, your RSS feed, your podcast and your daily inspirational emails.

But I caught onto the bit, when you didn't specify which Corinthians.

I or II Corinthians?

My heart is crushed. But my faith tells me the GOP will fly to heaven first during the Rapture.

[Ogre]

There will be a day very soon that many of the Obama supporters, who knew nothing factual about the man, will look in the mirror and say "My God, what have I done?". The facts are that the man that was elected was a product of the hype and hysteria created by the media. Obviously his lack of Executive experience is showing on many levels. I believe that his is guilty of Münchausen syndrome by proxy, with the US. If the economy is such a priority then why is the Treasury Dept. nearly vacant? His plan is to make it so that we have no other choice but to be a dependant of the Government.

I will cling to my guns and religion and all you dolts out there can keep the spare "change".

Come on freaks, go ahead argue for the man that is destroying our country. Tell me how great it is to be a slave of the Government, because that is what is coming down the road.

[TheMojoPin]

Right on, man!

[scottinnj]

I would like to know how this new banking plan is going to work.

We are supposed to be buying from the banks "toxic" loans to help their balance sheets.
This is supposed to loosen up the flow of credit at the banks. How does this do that?

Also, what is supposed to happen to the loans we buy from the banks?

All the pro/con discussions today on the radio while I was driving was confusing to me. This is economics that I don't understand.

[Ogre]

To be honest with you Scott I do not understand the nuances either. It seems though if your Family is broke, how much good does it do to borrow a C note from the old lady? I understand something has to be done..but again I am not an economist, just a pragmatist

[scottinnj]

To be honest with you Scott I do not understand the nuances either. It seems though if your Family is broke, how much good does it do to borrow a C note from the old lady? I understand something has to be done..but again I am not an economist, just a pragmatist


I'm kinda with you with the "guns/religion" stuff, even though I don't plan on buying a rifle for a while, I'm glad I know how to solder, run electrical wiring and fix cars-skills that are always needed no matter what the economy is like.
I'm a guy, so walking the streets is out, and pimpin ain't easy.

[Ogre]

I'm kinda with you with the "guns/religion" stuff, even though I don't plan on buying a rifle for a while, I'm glad I know how to solder, run electrical wiring and fix cars-skills that are always needed no matter what the economy is like.
I'm a guy, so walking the streets is out, and pimpin ain't easy.

11 Bravo checkin in. Hooah

[scottinnj]

11 Bravo checkin in. Hooah

Nice

92B/88M over here. The Army taught me to lie cheat and steal, then gave me the truck for the getaway ride.

[HBox]

I would like to know how this new banking plan is going to work.

We are supposed to be buying from the banks "toxic" loans to help their balance sheets.
This is supposed to loosen up the flow of credit at the banks. How does this do that?

Also, what is supposed to happen to the loans we buy from the banks?

All the pro/con discussions today on the radio while I was driving was confusing to me. This is economics that I don't understand.

These "toxic" assets are not being valued by the banks. Nobody knows what they are worth. They could be worth nothing or the full value of the loans, but more likely somewhere in the middle. But right now banks have the problem of having these assets on their books which are being assumed to be valued at nothing destroying the banks value. No one with money to lend wants to lend to these institutions because of the uncertainty. This plan will get those people with money to lend to buy these assets with government backing. If these toxic loans are worth more than what they are thought to and what these private lenders think they are the lenders and the government will split the profits. However if they end up to be worth less than what the private lenders pay for them the government will take the loss.

I'm not thrilled with this but if it works it works. I'm guessing they have determined the only way to get private lenders to take these toxic assets from troubled banks is to have the government protect them. That's the only reason I can think of. But the idea is that once the troubled banks shed these loans and get some value for them investors can then determine for sure which firms are solvent and which aren't. And then the solvent banks can get credit again. This is the hope.

[Ogre]

Today on local Fox 5 in DC ran the story on that cat down in Fla that used to be an Edward Jones investment banker making 750k, now delivering pizza to feed his family. Nice story. in the rejoiner?? Gaveer Dinsa ?? not sure if the spelling is right, looks straight into the camera and says "well now he is making an honest living." Like something that he was doing before was dishonest. Implying that ALL investment bankers are dishonest. Whatta dry hump two bit carnie. Could not belive my ears that the morning news is now an op/ed news capsule. That is the revolutionary, class warfare crap that the President is fostering.
Someone should tell Barry from Chicago and Delaware Joe, that the people/organizations that they are demonizing are the same entities that the Govt needs to invest in its bank rescue program.

[mudflap170]

There will be a day very soon that many of the Obama supporters, who knew nothing factual about the man, will look in the mirror and say "My God, what have I done?". The facts are that the man that was elected was a product of the hype and hysteria created by the media. Obviously his lack of Executive experience is showing on many levels. I believe that his is guilty of Münchausen syndrome by proxy, with the US. If the economy is such a priority then why is the Treasury Dept. nearly vacant? His plan is to make it so that we have no other choice but to be a dependant of the Government.

I will cling to my guns and religion and all you dolts out there can keep the spare "change".

Come on freaks, go ahead argue for the man that is destroying our country. Tell me how great it is to be a slave of the Government, because that is what is coming down the road.

Ogre. I am so with you. I've been preaching to everybody I could about this guy before the election, but the dumb fucks didn't want to listen. Now look what we've got stuck with for at least 4 years.
OLD SCHOOL 63B.
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i36/mudflap69/obama-montage-1.jpg
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i36/mudflap69/gca3.jpg

[HBox]

I heartily endorse these ideas you two are espousing and encourage you to make them more public.

[scottinnj]

So these loans will be further spread out among the banking institutions, and they will now have the Treasury insuring them if the loans don't pan out. And the ones that do, the Treasury will get a cut of the loan when the loan is paid off.

It's not the greatest thing in the world, but apart from doing nothing and letting the market burn until all the bad blood is out of the system, this sounds like the impact on the market will be minimized as best as possible, without a total buyout from the Federal Reserve which would practically nationalize just about the entire mortgage/credit market.

I'm not one for government intrusion into the free market, but comparing this to the market losing another 30-40%, I can live with it.

I wouldn't do too much more though if I were Obama. What I would do now is go back in time and put back into place the regulations that were removed over the past 10-15 years that allowed the markets to make the moves it did that got us into this mess.

[underdog]

Today on local Fox 5 in DC ran the story on that cat down in Fla that used to be an Edward Jones investment banker making 750k, now delivering pizza to feed his family.

How fucking bad of an investment banker was he if he was making 750k and is now delivering pizzas in Florida?

He wasn't doing something honest before. He was obviously terrible at his job and basically just stealing from people.

[TheMojoPin]

Ogre, here's Cicero's actual quote:

The arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and assistance to foreign hands should be curtailed, lest Rome fall.

[Gvac]

Where is this Prince of Public Speaking that we came to know on the campaign trail?

He's as much of a stuttering, muttering prick as Dubya was.

Maybe it's just me, but he looks like he wants to quit already.

[TheMojoPin]

I think we were spoiled by Clinton and his speaking ability in any situation. I can't think of any other president in the "TV era" that didn't often stumble without notes or a teleprompter.

[Ogre]

I heartily endorse these ideas you two are espousing and encourage you to make them more public.

You know man I have tried to post my ideas here before and was told by others on this board that I was ill-informed, uneducated, and just an "America love it or leave it" redneck. Hence my location explanation under my avatar. So I left.

Some of you might or might not know this, but I used to own a restuarant. I became ill last summer, had to have an emergency colon resection, and was fprced to sell to pay for my hospital stay and surgery. Yes I was one of the underinsured in this country. Did my circumstance suck? yes Was it easy to come out 200k on the shit end of the stick ? no
I lived with the gamble knowing that full coverage was something for me that was unaffordable, and I lost. Do I begrudge anyone ? no Do I blame anyone ? Yeah myself for being underinsured. My point is that we have only one person to hold accountable for our lot in life and that is the man in the mirror.

Now I am a commercial account rep for a regional pest control company. Am I happy? yes I have a job. Will I be back? shit yeah.

My point is that if we truly want to be successful as a nation we have to work through this, not try and borrow our way out of it. I have seen with my own eyes what govt related health care offers and it is a scary scary thing.

Thank God I had something to sell so that I could select my own surgeon and hospital.

Would you want the same people that run the DMV to run the OR ?

The prosecution rests...I need a Fresca

[Gvac]

Could you imagine if Bush had made the "Special Olympics" comment?

I wish people weren't so blindly loyal to one political party over another and were honest.

Staunch Republicans AND Democrats remind me of religious zealots.

[Ogre]

How fucking bad of an investment banker was he if he was making 750k and is now delivering pizzas in Florida?

He wasn't doing something honest before. He was obviously terrible at his job and basically just stealing from people.

you make alot of the same ignorant assumtions. are you a news anchor too?

[underdog]

Would you want the same people that run the DMV to run the OR ?

I'd be fine with that. The Massachusetts RMV is almost a pleasure to go to now. It's amazingly organized and extremely fast.

Could you imagine if Bush had made the "Special Olympics" comment?

I wish people weren't so blindly loyal to one political party over another and were honest.

Staunch Republicans AND Democrats remind me of religious zealots.

I agree with you 100%, sir.

[Ogre]

Underdog I apologize for calling you ignorant. Just a little jazzed up.

[underdog]

you make alot of the same ignorant assumtions. are you a news anchor too?

Wow, you're missing the point.

If he was an investment banker for 2 years at 750k, that means he made over a million dollars and lost all of it in a couple of months.

How good could he have been at making investments if he lost all his money in a couple of months?

Therefore, he was unbelievably bad at his job.

Get it now, sunshine?

[Ogre]

Wow, you're missing the point.

If he was an investment banker for 2 years at 750k, that means he made over a million dollars and lost all of it in a couple of months.

How good could he have been at making investments if he lost all his money in a couple of months?

Therefore, he was unbelievably bad at his job.

Get it now, sunshine?

OK ass. I apologized but you are ignorant. I never said he did not live above his means, or did not budget his money correctly. My point is that because he was an investment banker he was automactically assumed by the media to be dishonest.

sunshine

[scottinnj]

Underdog I apologize for calling you ignorant. Just a little jazzed up.

Stick around and keep posting. Ignore the name-callers on both sides and make your points with succinctness and humor and you'll fit right in.

BTW, love the avatar. Now all you need is a super cool mod quote.

[underdog]

OK ass. I apologized but you are ignorant. I never said he did not live above his means, or did not budget his money correctly. My point is that because he was an investment banker he was automactically assumed by the media to be dishonest.

sunshine

I got your point, and I actually agree with you.

I'm just talking about this specific guy. If he couldn't make his money last, I'm going to assume he was bad at making investments. And that was his job. He was just fleecing people for money.

[underdog]

Stick around and keep posting. Ignore the name-callers on both sides and make your points with succinctness and humor and you'll fit right in.

BTW, love the avatar. Now all you need is a super cool mod quote.

I never really mind name calling. People get really, really heated in debate. I have trouble not calling people idiots or using a version of the word "fuck" every third word, but I never really mean it personally. And I never take it personally when someone calls me out.

But I understand why its not allowed on the board.

[Gvac]

I never really mind name calling. People get really, really heated in debate. I have trouble not calling people idiots or using a version of the word "fuck" every third word, but I never really mean it personally. And I never take it personally when someone calls me out.

Fuck you, shit dick.

[mikeyboy]

Fuck you, shit dick.

Uh-oh. Grampa's tourettes is acting up again.

[disneyspy]

Uh-oh. Grampa's tourettes is acting up again.

its sad to watch them go,poor old fuck

[underdog]

Fuck you, shit dick.

The funny part is I was going to make reference to you in the post but didn't.

[Gvac]

Uh-oh. Grampa's tourettes is acting up again.

Go eat your okra, you half a fag.

[TheMojoPin]

Could you imagine if Bush had made the "Special Olympics" comment?

I wish people weren't so blindly loyal to one political party over another and were honest.

Staunch Republicans AND Democrats remind me of religious zealots.

You do realize that the "staunch people" you're complaining about on both sides are beyond that comment, right?

I know your news ticker is slow, but try and keep up.

[HBox]

My point is that if we truly want to be successful as a nation we have to work through this, not try and borrow our way out of it. I have seen with my own eyes what govt related health care offers and it is a scary scary thing.

What did you see?

Whatever you've seen I could probably match you. I've seen parents have to cut back on their child's drug doses to save money. These aren't poor people or underinsured. These are people with children with serious diseases that are so incredibly expensive to treat they are getting close to maxing out their insurance coverage. Or just not being able to afford 15 copays a month.

Nothing's perfect. But with the money we spend our system is a complete disaster. If we spent as much per capita as the next closest nation does we'd see how horribly wasteful and inefficient it is..

[scottinnj]

He was just fleecing people for money.

Not necessarily. He was an investment broker right? He made commission off of trades, and even if he was honest about it the whole day through, when the shit hit the fan a lot of wall street types lost a shitload of money, and a lot of firms closed up leaving them out in the cold.
I do find it amusing that the news media is making every banker/broker out to be the bad guy in this, when the explanation of all this mess comes through to the public as radio noise because most of the people reporting on this story don't understand the system at all. And that's from both sides of the aisle, from Fox News types who kept saying "nothing to see here, move along" to the other side trying to make this all turn out to be an evil plot by Bush to ruin the middle class.

It's getting to the point where I trust the analysis of the members of this board about what happened and what's going on to fix the problem.

[Gvac]

You do realize that the "staunch people" you're complaining about on both sides are beyond that comment, right?

I know your news ticker is slow, but try and keep up.

Do you think I care what the rest of the mental midgets on this site post?

My brilliance is to be shared with the people at any time regardless of what the less intelligent happen to be babbling about at any given moment.

That being said, OBAMA SUCKS!

[IMSlacker]

Do you think I care what the rest of the mental midgets on this site post?

My brilliance is to be shared with the people at any time regardless of what the less intelligent happen to be babbling about at any given moment.

That being said, OBAMA SUCKS!

You Shock n' Jock zombies are all the same.

[scottinnj]

Fuck you, shit dick.

Uh-oh. Grampa's tourettes is acting up again.

its sad to watch them go,poor old fuck

Go eat your okra, you half a fag.

Who's turn was it to give Gvac his meds today? You gotta make sure he swallows those anti-dementia pills, not tuck 'em under his tongue so he can spit them out later.

[Gvac]

You Shock n' Jock zombies are all the same.

My "less intelligent" comment doesn't apply to you, Slacker.

I love you.

[TheMojoPin]

Do you think I care what the rest of the mental midgets on this site post?

My brilliance is to be shared with the people at any time regardless of what the less intelligent happen to be babbling about at any given moment.

That being said, OBAMA SUCKS!

Not just this site, you mushbrained goon.

[scottinnj]

you mushbrained goon.



Can I pleeaaaase use that at work tomorrow?


Best post ever!

[Gvac]

Not just this site.

You're right!

My brilliance should be shared with the ENTIRE WORLD!

[HBox]

You're right!

My brilliance should be shared with the ENTIRE WORLD!

You should get a blog. It's worked wonders for Ron.

[Gvac]

You should get a blog. It's worked wonders for Ron.

Blog schmog.

Get me a national talk radio show!

My callers will greet me with "Colossal likewises!" or something like that.

[scottinnj]

You should get a blog. It's worked wonders for Ron.

Ronnie's got a blog?




Oh, wait......

[Ogre]

What did you see?

Whatever you've seen I could probably match you....

Well if you feel like being falsely led into believe that you have a good insurance plan only to be stuck with a majority of the bill. To pay a company over $400.00 a month for what you thought was a good plan. fucking Merlin Olson and his NASE bullshit. the man was on Little House on the Prarie for Gods sake....but I digress. A company that is supposed to be an insurance agent for the self employed entre pe manure. An insurance company that invents more ways not to be "allowable under this plan" fine line # *(&%#$@!@$656543##...states "only $1000.00 per diagnostic scan per day. sounds good right? (avg cat scan or radio imaging tech that I had was 4K...oh yeah they did that all in one day for those keeping score at home. I required a total of 9. That is just the anti pasta, cause the diagnostic scan is done between guesses..by many doctors..oh yeah BTW max of 2 drs visits per day...everything else $$$cha ching$$$...That was when i was getting the good care that I eventually had to pay caesh for. BTW2 its under appeal but I had to pony up first as not to have liens put on shit.

Now for my state experience roll back the clock to 2003..at work..no company offered insurance..beer keg fell on me and fractured L-4 and herniated the disc between L-4 and L-5. Workmans comp.

In the beginning the diagnosis was wrong. I had a fracture and a herniation and it was treated like a muscle pull..for 8 weeks I went to PT because I had to "work thru that" before more XRAYs and eventually an MRI would be ordered. Then decided by another "top of his class" state Dr. that I have epidural blocks. 5 in all over a 90 day period..all the while I was getting addicted to Vicodan and Flexril because the pain was unbearable. Then and only then did I get a long awaited appointment with the WC spinal neurosurgeons (1 of 4 in the DC Balt Area) I broke my back in early October...I was finally operated March 17th of the following year. I was waiting to get a substitute Irish surgeon on St Pattys day just to top it off. After all of this I contracted a post surgery infection that took another 45 days to clear up.



Nothing's perfect. But with the money we spend our system is a complete disaster. If we spent as much per capita as the next closest nation does we'd see how horribly wasteful and inefficient it is..


So yes I know that we get whored for no good reason...yes I do realize that there is way too much money in the present system for such shitty results.

[Gvac]

This prick's got no balls.

I think the last Democrat with a pair was ol' Harry S.

Nuke 'em Obama!

No victory, no peace.

[JerseySean]

This prick's got no balls.

I think the last Democrat with a pair was ol' Harry S.

Nuke 'em Obama!

No victory, no peace.

Amen

[The Jays]

There will be a day very soon that many of the Obama supporters, who knew nothing factual about the man, will look in the mirror and say "My God, what have I done?". The facts are that the man that was elected was a product of the hype and hysteria created by the media. Obviously his lack of Executive experience is showing on many levels. I believe that his is guilty of Münchausen syndrome by proxy, with the US. If the economy is such a priority then why is the Treasury Dept. nearly vacant? His plan is to make it so that we have no other choice but to be a dependant of the Government.

I will cling to my guns and religion and all you dolts out there can keep the spare "change".

Come on freaks, go ahead argue for the man that is destroying our country. Tell me how great it is to be a slave of the Government, because that is what is coming down the road.

Lack of executive experience? And we were going to get that with who, McCain??

And, the last president we had did have executive experience, and he was dumb as a rock. He was another brilliant mind who thought it'd be a good idea for every minority to own a home, unfortunately, most minorities aren't the best credit risks, and that helped make the crisis we have now.

It is your opinion that he was elected based on media hype and hysteria. It is my opinion that McCain sounded like more of a fucking douchebag when it comes to the economy than Obama did, and that McCain looked more of a politician than Obama did by choosing an idiot governor to be his running mate just because he needed a chick to compete with the "history" aspect that Obama had going for him.

Obama might have been elected due to media hype, but at least he was elected and not chosen by the Supreme Court.

And excuse me for thinking that better healthcare, better education, and more environmentally sustainable living/working won't destroy the country.

[keithy_19]

Lack of executive experience? And we were going to get that with who, McCain??

And, the last president we had did have executive experience, and he was dumb as a rock. He was another brilliant mind who thought it'd be a good idea for every minority to own a home, unfortunately, most minorities aren't the best credit risks, and that helped make the crisis we have now.

It is your opinion that he was elected based on media hype and hysteria. It is my opinion that McCain sounded like more of a fucking douchebag when it comes to the economy than Obama did, and that McCain looked more of a politician than Obama did by choosing an idiot governor to be his running mate just because he needed a chick to compete with the "history" aspect that Obama had going for him.

Obama might have been elected due to media hype, but at least he was elected and not chosen by the Supreme Court.

And excuse me for thinking that better healthcare, better education, and more environmentally sustainable living/working won't destroy the country.

Obama sure sounds like a politican now though. Though, he soudned like a politician to me during the campaign as well.

I like to think that McCain was more deserving of the presidency just because of who he is and what he sacrificed for this country.

My big problem with Obama now is largely due to his supporters who won't realize he has done some pretty asinine things.

[CofyCrakCocaine]

Obama sure sounds like a politican now though. Though, he soudned like a politician to me during the campaign as well.

I like to think that McCain was more deserving of the presidency just because of who he is and what he sacrificed for this country.

My big problem with Obama now is largely due to his supporters who won't realize he has done some pretty asinine things.

Well, I guess that's good we have a politician in the White House then.

I love and respect vets, but I've known plenty of 'em who I wouldn't want to see in power.

Did you have any similar big problems with the Right during the last 8 years?

[The Jays]

I don't see how being the son of an Admiral and being a POW somehow entitles you to be President.

I would personally have someone who has brains, like someone who went to Columbia and Harvard, take care of the executive branch.

I don't see what he's doing at the moment is so wrong. Most economists agree that the only way to turn the economy around is to spend money, so the President is trying to kill two birds with one stone, by spending money on things he wants this country to work on anyway, instead of doing what Bush might have done, which is spend a shitload more on defense and then cut taxes for the upper tax brackets.

[TheMojoPin]

This prick's got no balls.

I think the last Democrat with a pair was ol' Harry S.

Nuke 'em Obama!

No victory, no peace.

Johnson had bigger balls than any Democrat ever.

A Texas politician, master of the Senate, the Democrats dominating the South...and he does more for civil rights than anyone in this country has done short of freeing the slaves.

That and he would have meetings while he was on the can, squeezing out some mighty turds, just to put people on edge.

CAJONES.

[keithy_19]

Well, I guess that's good we have a politician in the White House then.

I love and respect vets, but I've known plenty of 'em who I wouldn't want to see in power.

Did you have any similar big problems with the Right during the last 8 years?

It's just that we were supposed to have someone in the oval office who wasn't like the other politicans in Washington. HA! What a politicial move. People bought into it though.

And yeah, the right pissed me off too. I hated Bush's expansion of government. With a passion. I hate Obama's expansion of government. With a passion.

None of them are really looking out for the 'common folk'. They claim to when an election comes around, but it never sticks. They go with special interest groups and reward various supporters. It's the same shit all the time.

[CofyCrakCocaine]

It's just that we were supposed to have someone in the oval office who wasn't like the other politicans in Washington. HA! What a politicial move. People bought into it though.

And yeah, the right pissed me off too. I hated Bush's expansion of government. With a passion. I hate Obama's expansion of government. With a passion.

None of them are really looking out for the 'common folk'. They claim to when an election comes around, but it never sticks. They go with special interest groups and reward various supporters. It's the same shit all the time.

Then you're a good kind of Republican. I wish you guys would take charge of that damn party already. Get back to your roots.

[epo]

Johnson had bigger balls than any Democrat ever.

A Texas politician, master of the Senate, the Democrats dominating the South...and he does more for civil rights than anyone in this country has done short of freeing the slaves.

That and he would have meetings while he was on the can, squeezing out some mighty turds, just to put people on edge.

CAJONES.

I don't even care if this historical quote is real or not....

Ford's economics are the worst thing that's happened to this country since pantyhose ruined finger-fucking.

FUCKING AWESOME.

[CofyCrakCocaine]

Johnson had bigger balls than any Democrat ever.

A Texas politician, master of the Senate, the Democrats dominating the South...and he does more for civil rights than anyone in this country has done short of freeing the slaves.

That and he would have meetings while he was on the can, squeezing out some mighty turds, just to put people on edge.

CAJONES.

You misspelled calzones Mojo. Sorry.

And I'm sorry- did Johnson drop any nuclear bombs? No? Was he in World War I or II? I dunno, I'm seriously asking you if he was. I DUNNO! But what I DO KNOW- is that Harry did!

You should listen to Gvac, son. He owns a Mac. That means he's one of the intelligentsia.

[Gvac]

You misspelled calzones Mojo. Sorry.

And I'm sorry- did Johnson drop any nuclear bombs? No? Was he in World War I or II? I dunno, I'm seriously asking you if he was. I DUNNO! But what I DO KNOW- is that Harry did!

You should listen to Gvac, son. He owns a Mac. That means he's one of the intelligentsia.

I'm glad someone's paying attention. Bless you, son.

And I doubt we'll ever agree as to whether Obama is the worst president or not, but at least we can agree on this - GOD HATES FAGS!!!

[TheMojoPin]

You misspelled calzones Mojo. Sorry.

And I'm sorry- did Johnson drop any nuclear bombs? No? Was he in World War I or II? I dunno, I'm seriously asking you if he was. I DUNNO! But what I DO KNOW- is that Harry did!

The war could have been won in the Pacific without the bombs or an invasion of Japan.

Truman dropping them was the equivalent of kicking the nerdy kid in the balls after the other bullies had beaten him almost to death.

JOHNSON'S NAME MEANS PENIS, AS IN THE HUGE COCK THAT TEA PARTY TRUMAN WISHES HE HAD.

[CofyCrakCocaine]

The war could have been won in the Pacific without the bombs or an invasion of Japan.

Truman dropping them was the equivalent of kicking the nerdy kid in the balls after the other bullies had beaten him almost to death.

JOHNSON'S NAME MEANS PENIS, AS IN THE HUGE COCK THAT TEA PARTY TRUMAN WISHES HE HAD.

HOW DARE YOU!
Don't make me Aaron Burr your Alexander Hamilton.

[TheMojoPin]

We're talking modern Democrats here. If we're going further back and outside the party, TDR and Jackson kill everyone else and end up facing each other in a battle that destroys the universe.

[keithy_19]

Then you're a good kind of Republican. I wish you guys would take charge of that damn party already. Get back to your roots.

Unfortunately our roots are now Libertarian, which is what I am. I would love to see them take hold of the Libertarian values that are slowly but surely gaining ground. (only because I don't think I'll live to see a third party win the white house)

[CofyCrakCocaine]

On a side note, them firebombs FDR was letting ol' whathisface drop on Japan in '44 was all-told way worse and killed more people than the two atom bombs combined. So... he was saving lives by blowing some of 'em up!

Yeah!

[TheMojoPin]

(only because I don't think I'll live to see a third party win the white house)

Nobody will. A third party has never won the White House and likely never will. If the Libertarians put someone in the White House, they'll have become 1 of the Big 2 and one of the other parties will have died off or been relegated to the fringes.

[CofyCrakCocaine]

We're talking modern Democrats here. If we're going further back and outside the party, TDR and Jackson kill everyone else and end up facing each other in a battle that destroys the universe.

Jackson'd win that one. He'd been a warrior since age 8 while Teddy was busy being fatty pneumonia.

[CofyCrakCocaine]

Nobody will. A third party has never won the White House and likely never will. If the Libertarians put someone in the White House, they'll have become 1 of the Big 2 and one of the other parties will have died off or been relegated to the fringes.

Whigs and Federalists FTW.

[TheMojoPin]

Jackson'd win that one. He'd been a warrior since age 8 while Teddy was busy being fatty pneumonia.

Teddy also might have been overcompensating. He was mocked mercilessly by his peers as being a dandy and as coming off gay, largely due to him being a hilarious high talker.

[TheMojoPin]

Whigs and Federalists FTW.

Those were not 3rd parties. They were each 1 of the Big 2 of their day until they were pushed out.

[underdog]

GOD HATES FAGS!!!

And Okra.

[CofyCrakCocaine]

Those were not 3rd parties. They were each 1 of the Big 2 of their day until they were pushed out.

You say that now. Wait 'till the dead walk amongst us.

[CofyCrakCocaine]

BTW some freshman in HS used to tell us about his dream he had of TR making out with Mark Summers in a Ferris Wheel. Thought I'd mention that since TR's sexuality is now considered open season.

[TheMojoPin]

Roosevelt was even more critical of MacManus himself saying, "a gentleman named MacManus, a huge, fleshy, unutterably coarse and low brute, who was formerly a prize fighter, at present keeps a low drinking and dancing saloon, and is more than suspected of having begun his life as a pickpocket." When Roosevelt caught wind of what MacManus had proposed he charged up to him and fumed, "By God! MacManus, I hear you are going to toss me in a blanket. By God! If you try anything like that, I'll kick you, I'll bite you, I'll kick you in the balls, I'll do anything to you - you'd better leave me alone." MacManus backed down and his threat was never carried out.

Oooooooh, you brute!

[CofyCrakCocaine]

Oooooooh, you brute!

So gay. And watch out for MacManus. That drunk driving prick went on to fuck that guy in the ass who later starred in SVU! Why, if I could remember back 9 or so years, I would tell you more about what he did to people in Em City. Teddy never stood a chance. MacManus felt sorry for him.

[keithy_19]

Nobody will. A third party has never won the White House and likely never will. If the Libertarians put someone in the White House, they'll have become 1 of the Big 2 and one of the other parties will have died off or been relegated to the fringes.

That's why the Republican party would most likely need to hijack the Libertarian platform for it to happen. Just like The Democrats hijacked the platform of the Populist party.

You won't see an L next to the presidents name, but his ideals would be founded in Libertarian thinking.

[A.J.]

I think we were spoiled by Clinton and his speaking ability in any situation. I can't think of any other president in the "TV era" that didn't often stumble without notes or a teleprompter.

And Gerald Ford was the worst of all.

http://www.cah.utexas.edu/photojournalism/graphics/presidents/ford/bigpics/Ford_10.jpg

[A.J.]

Could you imagine if Bush had made the "Special Olympics" comment?

I wish people weren't so blindly loyal to one political party over another and were honest.

Staunch Republicans AND Democrats remind me of religious zealots.

Sadly, most staunch Republicans ARE religious zealots.

They are killing the party.

[ToiletCrusher]

Sadly, most staunch Republicans ARE religious zealots.

They are killing the party.

When the party made the transition from fiscal conservatives to this religious minded conservatives, we began to see the party take a downturn.

[A.J.]

Johnson had bigger balls than any Democrat ever.

A Texas politician, master of the Senate, the Democrats dominating the South...and he does more for civil rights than anyone in this country has done short of freeing the slaves.

That and he would have meetings while he was on the can, squeezing out some mighty turds, just to put people on edge.

CAJONES.

Don't forget the Johnson "treatment". (http://www.uiowa.edu/~commstud/resources/nonverbal/lbj.htm)

[angrymissy]

Don't forget the Johnson "treatment". (http://www.uiowa.edu/~commstud/resources/nonverbal/lbj.htm)

Jesus Christ. That looks uncomfortable.

[A.J.]

Yes, LBJ was the original "close talker".

http://www.siyumhaseinfeld.com/images/chars/aaron.jpg

[Dude!]

Yes, LBJ was the original "close talker".

http://www.siyumhaseinfeld.com/images/chars/aaron.jpg


http://wpcontent.answers.com/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/18/Lbj-green.jpg/220px-Lbj-green.jpg

[CurseoftheBambi]

Could you imagine if Bush had made the "Special Olympics" comment?

Yeah I could and I probably would have said as would have others. 'are we sure he doesn't really compete in them".

And for a bunch of guys (myself included) who make insults (jokes and otherwise) about people's intelligence...what's the difference? Especially when he was talking about himself and not others.

[El Mudo]

The war could have been won in the Pacific without the bombs or an invasion of Japan.

Truman dropping them was the equivalent of kicking the nerdy kid in the balls after the other bullies had beaten him almost to death.

JOHNSON'S NAME MEANS PENIS, AS IN THE HUGE COCK THAT TEA PARTY TRUMAN WISHES HE HAD.



I don't agree. Considering the Japanese plan was to basically fight an all out, large scale guerilla war, combined with the fact that the Russians would have gained a dangerous foothold in Asia, and the overall cost money wise of the invasion, and the subsequent clean up of having to rebuild the entire country of Japan piece by piece makes the decision fairly simple. The only real reason I can think that crossed Truman's mind not to drop the bomb (other than the human cost) was that ending the war that quickly pretty much wiped out the British economy, but that wouldn't have been worth losing hundreds of thousands of our boys

And I don't buy that the Japanese were "finished"...seeing as the month before they had cost us close to 70,000 casualties on Okinawa, combined with a rabid, fired up civillian population that surely would have been pressed into service. Even a guy that doesn't want to/can't shoot can take out a couple of guys if he's got a gun to his head.

As Tim already pointed out, the firebombs we dropped on Tokyo and other places caused just as many casualties and were just as horrific as the Atomic Bombs

[TheMojoPin]

I don't agree. Considering the Japanese plan was to basically fight an all out, large scale guerilla war, combined with the fact that the Russians would have gained a dangerous foothold in Asia, and the overall cost money wise of the invasion, and the subsequent clean up of having to rebuild the entire country of Japan piece by piece makes the decision fairly simple. The only real reason I can think that crossed Truman's mind not to drop the bomb (other than the human cost) was that ending the war that quickly pretty much wiped out the British economy, but that wouldn't have been worth losing hundreds of thousands of our boys

And I don't buy that the Japanese were "finished"...seeing as the month before they had cost us close to 70,000 casualties on Okinawa, combined with a rabid, fired up civillian population that surely would have been pressed into service. Even a guy that doesn't want to/can't shoot can take out a couple of guys if he's got a gun to his head.

As Tim already pointed out, the firebombs we dropped on Tokyo and other places caused just as many casualties and were just as horrific as the Atomic Bombs

Key figures in the Japanese government and the military command realized that the Soviets were about to enter the war and feared an oocupation by them more than anything else and began making overtures to the Allies for surrender. They would have been able to do it, too, had they gotten the Emperor to agree to the plan. They did not, however, present the plan to him since any outreach to the Allies were rejected by the US as not being "unconditional surrenders." Ironically, the "condition" that the Allies claimed to refuse was allowing the Emperor to stay in power and not be prosecuted for anything after the war, which they ended up doing anyway in the final surrender.

On top of that, the war likely could hae been by simply blockading the Japanese home island given their lack of the necessary natural resources and materials to keep their war machine going. The "disaster" invasion estimates actually came mostly from Navy planners who wated to push the blockade idea since it would hae allowed them to win the war. Each the different branches had often wildly different projections as to what was necessary to defeat Japan with the idea that their plan would them to "singlehandedly" win the war. The Army actually didn't project a disastrous invasion, and wanted that to be the option. The Air Force said it would be a disaster and insisted that continued bombng was the answer. The Navy said an invasion would be a disaster and that the bombing wasn't hitting all the right taregts and that only a Naval blockade could trulywin the day, etc., etc., etc..

Personally, I think it comes down to ending the war as quickly as possible without the Soviets getting a foothold in Asia AND intimidating the Soviets into thinking the US had a number of atomic bombs that could be used on the USSR if they pushed further than they already were.

[El Mudo]

Key figures in the Japanese government and the military command realized that the Soviets were about to enter the war and feared an oocupation by them more than anything else and began making overtures to the Allies for surrender. They would have been able to do it, too, had they gotten the Emperor to agree to the plan. They did not, however, present the plan to him since any outreach to the Allies were rejected by the US as not being "unconditional surrenders." Ironically, the "condition" that the Allies claimed to refuse was allowing the Emperor to stay in power and not be prosecuted for anything after the war, which they ended up doing anyway in the final surrender.


The Emperor rejecting the peace overtures makes it moot. No one would have gone against him. The very goal of the Allies of not accepting anything but an "unconditional surrender" was to avoid a simple armistice (which was what the Japanese were seeking anyway instead of an unconditional surrender). Armistices, as the Allies had learned from their experiences in the First World War, solved nothing.

It makes a lot of sense that they would have rejected the condition of allowing the Emperor to stay in pow'r and not be prosecuted....how would that have looked to the public and the other allies in wartime? It made much more sense to hold that issue over till the final surrender and occupation when no one really cared any more.



On top of that, the war likely could hae been by simply blockading the Japanese home island given their lack of the necessary natural resources and materials to keep their war machine going. The "disaster" invasion estimates actually came mostly from Navy planners who wated to push the blockade idea since it would hae allowed them to win the war. Each the different branches had often wildly different projections as to what was necessary to defeat Japan with the idea that their plan would them to "singlehandedly" win the war. The Army actually didn't project a disastrous invasion, and wanted that to be the option. The Air Force said it would be a disaster and insisted that continued bombng was the answer. The Navy said an invasion would be a disaster and that the bombing wasn't hitting all the right taregts and that only a Naval blockade could trulywin the day, etc., etc., etc..


Has a blockade EVER worked by itself? Even in the Civil War, for example, the Army of the Potomac still had to go in and pummel the Army of Northern Virginia in between the Rappohannock and the James in 1864. It certainly didn't work in the First World War, nor in the Second World War

And a blockade requires massive amounts of time and resources, which the United States didn't have (soldiers have to eat and be paid, and have weapons and ammunition). How could we put on this massive blockade, fund lend lease (remember, the British were on the dole for lend lease money until the war in the Pacific was over), and start cleaning up Europe all at the same time? And what about the experienced troops in Europe with enough "points" to go home? How would they have been replaced? (we had already liquidated most of the special programs of troops, like the ASTP, when we had our problems in the Bulge)




Personally, I think it comes down to ending the war as quickly as possible without the Soviets getting a foothold in Asia AND intimidating the Soviets into thinking the US had a number of atomic bombs that could be used on the USSR if they pushed further than they already were.

I know this goes against one of my earlier points about the threats of having the Russians in Asia (which finally did get the Administration worried after Churchill had been warning them for YEARS about them in Europe until it was too late), but the Administration didn't really see the Russians as a "threat" yet, at least in the Cold War sense. State and Treasury were still filled with a lot of higher ups who were double agents for the Russians, most of the country was still sympathetic towards them because they had heard nothing for four years of how much they were suffering (and were they ever suffering). For example, Churchill's "Iron Curtain" speech was received around the country with much disdain and scorn, because it was looked on as the old "imperial British" trying to gain through those methods again, which played right into the hands of the Soviets.

That being said, since the Soviets already knew we had the Bomb, i'm not buying it was really meant to "intimidate" them, and NOBODY knew what this thing was truly capable of or even if it would work until it hit Hiroshima.

The war had to be ended quickly, and the Bombs ended it quickly.

[A.J.]

NERDS!!!!

http://haterlover.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/ogre.jpg

[El Mudo]

NERDS!!!!

http://haterlover.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/ogre.jpg



http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51T95u54MLL._SS400_.jpg

[TheMojoPin]

The Emperor rejecting the peace overtures makes it moot. No one would have gone against him. The very goal of the Allies of not accepting anything but an "unconditional surrender" was to avoid a simple armistice (which was what the Japanese were seeking anyway instead of an unconditional surrender). Armistices, as the Allies had learned from their experiences in the First World War, solved nothing.

It makes a lot of sense that they would have rejected the condition of allowing the Emperor to stay in pow'r and not be prosecuted....how would that have looked to the public and the other allies in wartime? It made much more sense to hold that issue over till the final surrender and occupation when no one really cared any more.

But you talk like the Emperor wouldn't have considered surrender. His government and military council were not anywhere near total agreement even after the two atomic bombs, yet he listened to the argument and agreed with those that suggested surrender. Who is to say he would not have done the same weeks or even days earlier when most of the same influential figures already wanted surrender?

Has a blockade EVER worked by itself? Even in the Civil War, for example, the Army of the Potomac still had to go in and pummel the Army of Northern Virginia in between the Rappohannock and the James in 1864. It certainly didn't work in the First World War, nor in the Second World War

And a blockade requires massive amounts of time and resources, which the United States didn't have (soldiers have to eat and be paid, and have weapons and ammunition). How could we put on this massive blockade, fund lend lease (remember, the British were on the dole for lend lease money until the war in the Pacific was over), and start cleaning up Europe all at the same time? And what about the experienced troops in Europe with enough "points" to go home? How would they have been replaced? (we had already liquidated most of the special programs of troops, like the ASTP, when we had our problems in the Bulge)

Japan is an exceptional situation given how devoid they are of the resources and material necessary for them to fight a war. Relegated to just the home islands, there's not much they could have done. On top of that, the idea of blockade is bolstered by the militay leaders and government officials that waned to surrender before the bombs were dropped. Again, it cannot be overstated how much they didn't want the Soviets involved. It's arguable that the declaration of war by the Soviets did far more to motivate them to surrender than the two atomic bombs did. I don't thing a prolonged, indeifnite blockade would have been necessary or resulted.

I know this goes against one of my earlier points about the threats of having the Russians in Asia (which finally did get the Administration worried after Churchill had been warning them for YEARS about them in Europe until it was too late), but the Administration didn't really see the Russians as a "threat" yet, at least in the Cold War sense. State and Treasury were still filled with a lot of higher ups who were double agents for the Russians, most of the country was still sympathetic towards them because they had heard nothing for four years of how much they were suffering (and were they ever suffering). For example, Churchill's "Iron Curtain" speech was received around the country with much disdain and scorn, because it was looked on as the old "imperial British" trying to gain through those methods again, which played right into the hands of the Soviets.

That being said, since the Soviets already knew we had the Bomb, i'm not buying it was really meant to "intimidate" them, and NOBODY knew what this thing was truly capable of or even if it would work until it hit Hiroshima.

The war had to be ended quickly, and the Bombs ended it quickly.

Personally, I think the evidence and the timeline shows that the Soviets ended the Pacific war quickly far more than the atomic bombs did.

[El Mudo]

But you talk like the Emperor wouldn't have considered surrender. His government and military council were not anywhere near total agreement even after the two atomic bombs, yet he listened to the argument and agreed with those that suggested surrender. Who is to say he would not have done the same weeks or even days earlier when most of the same influential figures already wanted surrender?



You said yourself that the Emperor didn't agree to the plan or the pleas of those who wanted to surrender earlier. I think he most certainly WOULD have at some point and did, but before the bombs, why would he? He could have certainly surrendered earlier than he did, but he didn't.

They had a pretty sound plan in theory to force the Allies to blast them out of Kyushu, which could have made Okinawa look like a cakewalk. By this time in the war they had stopped trying to keep the Allies off the beaches and were learning how to bleed them in a war of attrition. In that sense, lack of supplies doesn't matter. In the case of Iwo, that place wasn't resupplied for the entire battle, and didn't even have any fresh water but it was STILL held for a monf/monf and a half.




Japan is an exceptional situation given how devoid they are of the resources and material necessary for them to fight a war. Relegated to just the home islands, there's not much they could have done. On top of that, the idea of blockade is bolstered by the militay leaders and government officials that waned to surrender before the bombs were dropped. Again, it cannot be overstated how much they didn't want the Soviets involved. It's arguable that the declaration of war by the Soviets did far more to motivate them to surrender than the two atomic bombs did. I don't thing a prolonged, indeifnite blockade would have been necessary or resulted.




It still would have taken a long time to choke the place to the point where they would have surrendered....are you saying just the "threat" of a blockade would have engendered a surrender? From the Japanese? Really?




The first bomb was dropped on the 6th, the Soviets declared war on the 8th, and the second bomb was dropped on the 9th. Would the Soviets have gotten into the war when they did if we hadn't dropped the bomb on the 6th?

[TheMojoPin]

You said yourself that the Emperor didn't agree to the plan or the pleas of those who wanted to surrender earlier. I think he most certainly WOULD have at some point, but before the bombs, why would he? He could have certainly surrendered earlier than he did, but he didn't.

No, I said that those that wanted to surrender DIDN'T go to him with a surrender proposal sooner because the Allies wouldn't relent from their demand of an unconditiona surrender. If the Allies had let it slide secretly that the Emperor could remain in power, it almosta certainty that those that wated surrender would have gone to him. Though the Emperor was seen as the final say on matters, he was no zealot. He deferred to his militay and government advisors, and it was their arguments for surrender that swayed him. There's little reaosn to think their arguments days or weeks before wouldn't have done the same since the main driving for them then as it was later would have been the Soviets. The bombs certainly gave them pause, but like we've said, they had suffered far worse in other bombing raids. They also weren't even sure what exactly had happened and most on the military council, including those that wanted surrender, were actually calling the US' bluff and believed that if they indeed had just used a single bomb each time they couldn't possibly have many more, if any.

They had a pretty sound plan in theory to force the Allies to blast them out of Kyushu, which could have made Okinawa look like a cakewalk. By this time in the war they had stopped trying to keep the Allies off the beaches and were learning how to bleed them in a war of attrition. In that sense, lack of supplies doesn't matter. In the case of Iwo, that place wasn't resupplied for the entire battle, and didn't even have any fresh water but it was STILL held for a monf/monf and a half.

This all hinges on the Soviets not fighting them. As soon as the Soviets declare war, this all goes out the window, and their higher ups knew it.

It still would have taken a long time to choke the place to the point where they would have surrendered....are you saying just the "threat" of a blockade would have engendered a surrender? From the Japanese? Really?

Again, I don't think a prolonged blockade would have been necessary. It would have acted as a "push" as I think the Bombs did. The main cause for surrender would still be the Soviets declaring war coupled with the threat of an Allied blockade.

The first bomb was dropped on the 6th, the Soviets declared war on the 8th, and the second bomb was dropped on the 9th. Would the Soviets have gotten into the war when they did if we hadn't dropped the bomb on the 6th?

Maybe not that exact day, but yes, I have little doubt they would have declared war at some point in August. They weren't going to sit by the wayside.

[Ogre]

NERDS!!!!

http://haterlover.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/ogre.jpg

Frederick J. Polowaski
:wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub:

[The Jays]

The latest trend to bash Obama- he uses the teleprompter too much.

Seriously. Michele Malkin calls it the TOTUS. As if he's the first fucking President to have his words on a screen that he can refer to.



It's seriously just fucking laughable. I feel ashamed to be a member of the Republican party. My party is so utterly fucking useless that I had to put my hope in the Democrats. I happen to believe that getting America to be more sustainable is a way to save the economy by reducing our need for oil and non-renewable resources. I happen to believe that fighting wars against countries who did not provoke us is wrong and a waste of money. I happen to believe that first and foremost, our government's main responsibility is to protect our lives in times of emergency, and my party had a fucking majority, the Presidency, and the governorship of Louisiana, and we still haven't fixed New Orleans.

The Republican Party is fucking pathetic, how do they have any fucking political capital at all? And how is every fucking answer to every fucking problem "Cut taxes"? Wanna get healthcare fixed? Cut taxes. Wanna fight terrorism? Cut taxes. Wanna get a blow job from a gay man in a public bathroom? Cut taxes.

And now that they are out of power, all they can do is bash every little fucking thing the President and Congress try to do to help the country, and all they can do is blast every fucking idea, when we all know that if Republicans were in power, they would just drag their feet and do nothing, and blame Democrats for stalling them.

Oh, and I love reading more and more about this Tea Party movement. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-cesca/the-weird-contradictions_b_176476.html)

To sum up: higher '90s-era tax rates for the wealthy and corporations? Tyrannical. Tax cuts for the middle class? Also tyrannical. Therefore, emulate the Boston Tea Party as a means of underscoring these positions.

The rationale was that lower taxes meant lower prices, which meant the East India Company would sell a lot more tea. Your basic free market precursor to Reaganomics and supply-side economics in action. In other words, the British government's solution to the East India Company's financial crisis was, in effect, a tax cut. A big one. Exactly the same economic solution that's been pushed by congressional Republicans and the tea bag revolutionaries 236 years later.

[TheMojoPin]

The ridiculous uses of the Boston Tea Party and the Populists has accomplished little except making me depressed about how fucking poorly history and civics have been taught in this country.

[The Jays]

It's because they were all too busy studying the Cliff Notes version of "Atlas Shrugged", because even they were bored to death trying to read that fucking tome.

[TheMojoPin]

It's because they were all too busy studying the Cliff Notes version of "Atlas Shrugged", because even they were bored to death trying to read that fucking tome.

Oh God, I forgot about the litle surge she's having, too. As if that book wasn't awful enough to begin with.

[The Jays]

Obviously, Ayn Rand had never read "The Elements of Style" or taken any advice from the great EB White... which is to tell a story by using an economy of words, and expressing ideas in a succinct yet clear manner.

How does it make sense, to protest a tax raise from 35% to 39.5%, to stop working altogether and stick it to the rest of us by basically boycotting any ounce of of productive work that they might perform? Don't they realize that for the work they fail to perform, someone else will come along and take the work and do it, for cheaper? And there are some who are trying to make just enough so that they don't cross over into the highest tax bracket.

[HBox]

Sometimes I just want to scream...

IT WAS "NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION" NOT "NO HIGH TAXATION" YOU FUCKING IDIOTS!

[TheMojoPin]

Sometimes I just want to scream...

IT WAS "NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION" NOT "NO HIGH TAXATION" YOU FUCKING IDIOTS!

HAW-HAW, ME THROW TEA BAG IN PUBLIC BOATING AREA! I AM SO NAUGHTY!

[A.J.]

Sometimes I just want to scream...

IT WAS "NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION" NOT "NO HIGH TAXATION" YOU FUCKING IDIOTS!

Huzzah for our public schools!

[The Jays]

Huzzah for our public schools!

That's what you get when you spend more money on wars than you do for eductation... a country that's only prepared for war, and not thinking.

[Dude!]

That's what you get when you spend more money on wars than you do for eductation... a country that's only prepared for war, and not thinking.

you should have spent some more
on your ejukashun

[El Mudo]

Maybe not that exact day, but yes, I have little doubt they would have declared war at some point in August. They weren't going to sit by the wayside.

Why would they have? What would have been the gain on their part?

Wouldn't it have been much more in Uncle Joe's interest to sit back and watch the two countries beat the holy hell out of each other, and THEN get in when it looked like it was pretty much over? The way they entered the war (right after the first bomb was dropped) looks an awful lot like a view that the Japanese were now finished, and we better get in as soon as practicable before the whole war ends and get what we can.

If that sounds crazy, remember, Stalin was STILL seeking a separate peace with the Germans mid way through 1944, he only stopped because they no longer fit in his interests, being as the Allies gave him everything he wanted (and more) at Yalta.

[TheMojoPin]

Why would they have? What would have been the gain on their part?

Wouldn't it have been much more in Uncle Joe's interest to sit back and watch the two countries beat the holy hell out of each other, and THEN get in when it looked like it was pretty much over? The way they entered the war (right after the first bomb was dropped) looks an awful lot like a view that the Japanese were now finished, and we better get in as soon as practicable before the whole war ends and get what we can.

If that sounds crazy, remember, Stalin was STILL seeking a separate peace with the Germans mid way through 1944, he only stopped because they no longer fit in his interests, being as the Allies gave him everything he wanted (and more) at Yalta.

He also agreed to the conditions of the Soviets declaring war on Japan at Yalta. The declaration in August was the result of Yalta. He promised to declare war within 6 months of the end of the European war. Granted, he could have waited, but arguably only another 3 months. The Allies didn't have to invade Japan during that time. The blockade & bombing option was perfectly viable if they had to wait it out.

[Gvac]

We should start a countdown for when the first 100 days are up.

Maybe then we'll finally see this creep being crucified for his phoniness.

[scottinnj]

Yes

[The Jays]

you should have spent some more
on your ejukashun

Yeah, sorry. My school couldn't afford Mavis Beacon to teach me typing. Obviously your school had shop because you learned how to be a tool.

[CofyCrakCocaine]

Mojo+Mudo remind me of my old pre-AP sample DBQs.

[El Mudo]

Mojo+Mudo remind me of my old pre-AP sample DBQs.


I could definitely go for a Blizzard right now


http://www.tavernierdq.com/DairyQueenBldg.JPG

[AKA]

Not even the worst President this year.

[Dude!]

the dude is in serious jeopardy
of becoming tagged as a joke
with the teleprompter thing

really, it needs to stop
people will speculate that others
are feeding him the lines


http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/5251/nosepick.jpg


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3456/3383794695_69a000b51e_o.jpg

[Furtherman]

the dude is in serious jeopardy
of becoming tagged as a joke

No, he's not.

[angrymissy]

The teleprompter thing is a weak attempt by the right to stir controversy. No one gives a fuck. If it wasn't a teleprompter, it would be HE'S READING OFF OF NOTES!

I mean, do you seriously think no prior President used a teleprompter? They've been in use since Eisenhower.

[Jujubees2]

The teleprompter thing is a weak attempt by the right to stir controversy. No one gives a fuck. If it wasn't a teleprompter, it would be HE'S READING OFF OF NOTES!

I mean, do you seriously think no prior President used a teleprompter? They've been in use since Eisenhower.

BINGO!

Tales of Totus, the President’s Teleprompter (http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/03/25/tales-of-totus-the-presidents-teleprompter/)

Every president since Dwight D. Eisenhower has used teleprompters, but none as extensively as Mr. Obama. Past presidents used them only for major speeches – the State of the Union, say, or an Oval Office address – but not for news conferences or everyday speeches and statements, as Mr. Obama did during his campaign and still does. Instead, when they used prepared remarks, other presidents tended to use printouts or note cards.

[angrymissy]

http://punditkitchen.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/political-pictures-geitner-obama-enough-time.jpg

[topless_mike]

The teleprompter thing is a weak attempt by the right to stir controversy. No one gives a fuck. If it wasn't a teleprompter, it would be HE'S READING OFF OF NOTES!

I mean, do you seriously think no prior President used a teleprompter? They've been in use since Eisenhower.

I agree.
Even though I'm on the right, so what if he uses a prompter. He's human and perhaps not so skilled at public speaking. So fucking what.
I couldnt give a speach without something to keep me on track. I dont expect him to, either.

[Furtherman]

I couldnt give a speach without something to keep me on track. I dont expect him to, either.

And neither could anyone who criticizes him for using one.

[Freitag]

My only criticism of Obama is that he's in danger of being overexposed, and that's a mighty tall order for a sitting US President.

[A.J.]

I couldnt give a speach without something to keep me on track. I dont expect him to, either.

Use PowerPoint Notes Pages like I do.

[epo]

My only criticism of Obama is that he's in danger of being overexposed, and that's a mighty tall order for a sitting US President.

I understand this whole "primetime" press-conference thing must be confusing for the American public.

[The Jays]

And honestly, so he uses a fucking teleprompter, but the dude gives a major speech in front of the country every three weeks. He is in charge, and he is letting us know exactly what he is doing and what is going on, as oppose to Bush who was secretive as fuck.

What is the charge exactly from using a teleprompter? That someone else might be writing his words for him? Well, that is exactly what happens, that's why he has deputy chiefs of staff... cmon, everyone acts like they've never watch The West Wing.

[angrymissy]

Obama is not Ron Burgundy.

[high fly]

That bastard Obama has once again shown his hatred for our military by phasing out those wildly popular "stop-loss" orders.
Just who does he think he is, anyway?

[Jujubees2]

Use PowerPoint Notes Pages like I do.

http://www.tvfanatic.com/images/gallery/rainn-wilson-as-dwight-schrute.jpg

PowerPoint is boring

[epo]

BINGO!

Tales of Totus, the President’s Teleprompter (http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/03/25/tales-of-totus-the-presidents-teleprompter/)

Every president since Dwight D. Eisenhower has used teleprompters, but none as extensively as Mr. Obama. Past presidents used them only for major speeches – the State of the Union, say, or an Oval Office address – but not for news conferences or everyday speeches and statements, as Mr. Obama did during his campaign and still does. Instead, when they used prepared remarks, other presidents tended to use printouts or note cards.

Wait, Presidents have use teleprompters before?

http://images2.dailykos.com/images/user/30549/reagan.jpg

Holy shit!

[Gvac]

Well, he fired the CEO of General Motors and seized control of the company yesterday, making his vision of bringing a totalitarian government to the U.S. one step closer to reality.

[Jujubees2]

Well, he fired the CEO of General Motors and seized control of the company yesterday, making his vision of bringing a totalitarian government to the U.S. one step closer to reality.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::lol::lol::lol::lol: :lol::drunk::drunk::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

[keithy_19]

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/senator-no-consultation-on-asking-wagoner-to-leave-2009-03-30.html

Checks and balances? FUCK THAT

[Syd]

Ein volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer!

I thought Republicans secretly wanted fascism to take hold -- strong national identity, aggressive stance towards nations and extreme hostility towards communism. What's not to love?

[The Jays]

Well, he fired the CEO of General Motors and seized control of the company yesterday, making his vision of bringing a totalitarian government to the U.S. one step closer to reality.

Yes, because a broken company asking for more money from the government in exchange for certain conditions being met is the first sign of totalitarian government!

[TheMojoPin]

One serious thing I wonder if people would like to discuss is why the "transparency" being asked/demanded of the auto companies not also being asked of the banks and Wall Street companies.

[keithy_19]

One serious thing I wonder if people would like to discuss is why the "transparency" being asked/demanded of the auto companies not also being asked of the banks and Wall Street companies.

It's interesting. I mean, especially since they made such a big deal of letting everyone see what was happening with the government. It was a to be new kind of Washington. It's looking more like the shady political renderings of turn of the century Chicago...

[TheMojoPin]

It's interesting. I mean, especially since they made such a big deal of letting everyone see what was happening with the government. It was a to be new kind of Washington. It's looking more like the shady political renderings of turn of the century Chicago...

No, it's really not. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. A shitty CEO being asked to step down because of how fucked their company is is nowhere near Chicago politics at any point. I appreciate the heat being put on the auto industry ad am wondering why the same isn't being applied at any real comparable level to the Wall Street firms or the banks.

[Dude!]

One serious thing I wonder if people would like to discuss is why the "transparency" being asked/demanded of the auto companies not also being asked of the banks and Wall Street companies.

yes, and why the auto unions
are asked
to renegotiate contracts
but for AIG bonuses all we hear is
well they were in contracts
that had to be honored

what bullsheet

and by the way
what the hell kind of shakeup
is it at GM
they promoted a GM underling to CEO
and did not bring in an outsider
it's just more of the same management
that brought them to where they are now

that 'firing' was only for show

it is time to take to the streets

[TheMojoPin]

yes, and why the auto unions
are asked
to renegotiate contracts
but for AIG bonuses all we hear is
well they were in contracts
that had to be honored

what bullsheet

and by the way
what the hell kind of shakeup
is it at GM
they promoted a GM underling to CEO
and did not bring in an outsider
it's just more of the same management
that brought them to where they are now

that 'firing' was only for show

it is time to take to the streets

Bringing in an outsider to a company in that precarious a position isn't necessarily the best idea. That's not the time to be "learning the ropes."

[Dude!]

Bringing in an outsider to a company in that precarious a position isn't necessarily the best idea. That's not the time to be "learning the ropes."

there are plenty of people
that know the ropes
like a toyota or hyundai executive
with a record of SUCCESS for instance

the underling they promoted
is steeped in the same culture
as the fired fool

[A.J.]

One serious thing I wonder if people would like to discuss is why the "transparency" being asked/demanded of the auto companies not also being asked of the banks and Wall Street companies.

Because the auto companies only donate to the Michigan congressional delegation.

[TheMojoPin]

there are plenty of people
that know the ropes
like a toyota or hyundai executive
with a record of SUCCESS for instance

the underling they promoted
is steeped in the same culture
as the fired fool

Maybe, maybe not. It's not like it's impossibe someone in GM can run the company. Plus you don't know if they'd be able to hire the right person away from Toyota or Hyundai at this point without throwing in a ton of extra cash.

[Syd]

Carlos Ghosn was an outsider who came in and brought back Nissan from certain death.

[scottinnj]

Bringing in an outsider to a company in that precarious a position isn't necessarily the best idea. That's not the time to be "learning the ropes."

Yep, especially since potential candidates from other "Jap" companies are experiencing the same thing, maybe not on the same level as GM, Ford and Chrysler. People just aren't buying cars right now.

The way to fix this is to go back to the housing industry, get that fixed, and put some regulations in the banking/insurance industry so investors don't lose their life savings in 5 minutes of Wall Street panic. This would stabilize the economy, get people confident to buy durable goods again, and then dealer lots would be back to business again.

One good thing-the dealers that do that cheesy advertising on cable Saturday mornings with the "bait and switch" bullshit ("One dollar down, 199 a month on any car!") will get their asses kicked and legitimate dealers who actually get you in a car you need that you can also afford will come out shining like brand new nickels!

[scottinnj]

Carlos Ghosn was an outsider who came in and brought back Nissan from certain death.

And Iaccoca was a company man that moved up and rescued Chrysler. You have a good point, but I don't think GM in this case needs or is going to go that route. But only the future can prove your point, and you may be proven right over the next 3-5 years.

Crucial to GM's survival is product rollout. The Volt has to be delivered to dealerships on time, and the price tag of 35,000 t0 40k being bandied about right now has got to change to be a sub-30k price tag, or the Volt will be a marketing disaster. Who would want to go from a 250-300 dollar payment per month to a 500-600 dollar a month payment in order to reduce their monthly fuel budget by 100 bucks?

[Ogre]

No, it's really not. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. A shitty CEO being asked to step down because of how fucked their company is is nowhere near Chicago politics at any point. I appreciate the heat being put on the auto industry ad am wondering why the same isn't being applied at any real comparable level to the Wall Street firms or the banks.

Because that's where the money is. Money does wierd things to self appointed Messiahs, crooked Congressional banking committee members, and goofy ex Presidents too. I think that if you objectively look at the players involved and get our heads out of our collective asses, you will see that money has corrupted to the core our system. It is on both sides of the aisle. The sooner that we accept that it is not left or right but a matter of right and wrong, then we can move forward. I firmly believe that if you put in term limits in DC then we would begin to "do more with less". Our career politicians are the root of much of this. I say come serve for 8 years, and serve your country in a manner that will not hamper your life after DC in the "real world". I mean how many lobbyist jobs are there? eventually they would have to find real work.

[epo]

That crazy bastard is turning down the traditional federal funds to redecorate the living area of the White House, instead he'll pay for changes himself.

What the hell? Does this President think he's too good for our money!

[Dude!]

That crazy bastard is turning down the traditional federal funds to redecorate the living area of the White House, instead he'll pay for changes himself.

What the hell? Does this President think he's too good for our money!

where does he get the money to pay for this himself?

[IMSlacker]

where does he get the money to pay for this himself?

http://outfoxingkarlrove.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/barack-obama-audacity-of-hope.jpg

[Furtherman]

where does he get the money to pay for this himself?

Pssst.... he had jobs before he became President.

[foodcourtdruide]

where does he get the money to pay for this himself?

This is an odd question.

[Furtherman]

This is an odd question.

Not by someone who questions everything of a man he didn't vote for.

[foodcourtdruide]

Not by someone who questions everything of a man he didn't vote for.

It just reminded me of something. One of my co-workers went overseas for two weeks, and another co-worker was like "Where does she get money to pay for that???" It was such a berating and ignorant thing to say, though probably unintentonally so.

[JerseySean]

An ipod for the queen of England.....you have to be kidding. What an embarrassment.

[IMSlacker]

An ipod for the queen of England.....you have to be kidding. What an embarrassment.

She didn't like it?