Obama - Worst President Ever? [Archive] - Page 18

WRESTLINGFAN

06-07-2011, 06:16 AM

counterpoint: The New Deal / World War 2

if you don't admit the New Deal worked, that only means because it didn't compose enough of the GDP when over half the economy for the US was part of government spending

The new deal didnt work as government intervention caused double digit unemployment for the entire decade. Add in the national industrial recovery act, the agricultural act, FDR's numerous executive orders and continued government intervention and it furthered the depression

It took 12 million men in uniform to bring down the unemployment #s

There was the depression of 1920-21 in which unemployment rose from 4 to 12 %. There was no fiscal stimulus or excessive gov't spending. To the contrary the federal budget was cut in half and by 1923 unemployment went back down to 6.7%.

The government did not rely on keynesian economics and massive gov't intervention and run massive defecits it allowed the economy to correct itself.

Unfortunately today Trillions have been spent for what? transfer payments to zero liability voters, pork projects and a runaway federal government.

Looks like another one of Obamas handlers is jumping ship to go back to the bubble of Academia

http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0611/060711nj-goolsbee.htm

Syd

06-07-2011, 07:20 AM

There was the depression of 1920-21 in which unemployment rose from 4 to 12 %. There was no fiscal stimulus or excessive gov't spending. To the contrary the federal budget was cut in half and by 1923 unemployment went back down to 6.7%.

That's something completely different -- that was the dismantling of a war economy and suppression of military budgets through the Versailles Treaty. People went from the factories back out to the farms because there was unreasonably high demand for workers due to elastic demand of war product.

The new deal didnt work as government intervention caused double digit unemployment for the entire decade. Add in the national industrial recovery act, the agricultural act, FDR's numerous executive orders and continued government intervention and it furthered the depression

It took 12 million men in uniform to bring down the unemployment #s

Actually, The New Deal worked and unemployment was headed to single digits up until funding was cut for federals programs in '37 because capital was so pissed off about the lack of profits. Plus, entire swaths of the country who are entirely unappreciative of socialism have potable water, electricity and municipal buildings still in use today thanks to The New Deal. Granted I'd much rather have left the south as Sherman had left it, but, it was nice to see Reconstruction finally come to a close thanks to the herculean effort of the US Government since the states around there sure as fuck didn't care.

The government did not rely on keynesian economics and massive gov't intervention and run massive defecits it allowed the economy to correct itself.

Correct itself how? Was business somehow going to miracle away the fucking dust storms? The economy was highly agrarian and scarcely educated for a huge swath of the populace. Capital has not nor ever will invest in citizens, a large part of the justification for taxes. It's not their responsibility to build an economy, just simply integrate and profit in an established one. No first world country on Earth has relied on private industry to truly grow an economy. Everything was government spending through the military or massive public works projects. You can't rely on something that seeks profit, even if short term, to look at big picture stuff.

Unfortunately today Trillions have been spent for what? transfer payments to zero liability voters, pork projects and a runaway federal government.

Trillions have been spent due to people like you who keep voting in neoliberal candidates who just want to do whatever the fuck possible to please their corporate masters. There's no left or right in this nation anymore -- you're a right wing pro corporate public servant who is either pro choice or pro life. From Reagan to H.W. Bush to Clinton to Bush to Obama, they're all about taking money from the middle class and giving it to the top .1%

Stop believing in fairy tales like laissez-faire economics, if it worked wouldn't we have seen results in the past 30 years of being fleeced by it?

SonOfSmeagol

06-07-2011, 07:30 AM

They are doing so only because the right is holding the debt bar hostage.
Under bush the bar went up something like 8 times. With nothing of the sorts going on.

Or maybe because it's because of this

http://blog.heritage.org/wp-content/uploads/obama_budget_deficit.jpg

He needs the ceiling increase to "implement" these deficits, and it's only the beginning.
As senator when he had the opportunity to take a stand on ceiling increases he passed on voting on it at all, I believe.

Dudeman

06-07-2011, 08:01 AM

He needs the ceiling increase to "implement" these deficits, and it's only the beginning.
As senator when he had the opportunity to take a stand on ceiling increases he passed on voting on it at all, I believe.

Wrong.

He voted against raising the debt ceiling as a senator:

As the White House presses Congress "not to play chicken" with a vote to raise the nation's debt ceiling, President Barack Obama says his vote as a senator in 2006 against raising the debt cap was a mistake motivated by politics.

"Nobody likes to be tagged as having increased the debt limit for the United States by a trillion dollars," Obama said.

Five years ago, Senate Democrats — including Obama — objected to President George W. Bush's spending priorities and voted en bloc against Bush's call for raising the debt ceiling. Obama told ABC News on Thursday that no senator likes to be tagged as voting to increase the debt limit. But as president, he says he has a different perspective on the consequences (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110414/ap_on_bi_ge/us_obama_economy)

StanUpshaw

06-07-2011, 08:03 AM

Fliiiiiiiiiip
Flop
Fliiiiiiiiiip
Flop
Fliiiiiiiiiip
Flop

foodcourtdruide

06-07-2011, 08:05 AM

Trillions have been spent due to people like you who keep voting in neoliberal candidates who just want to do whatever the fuck possible to please their corporate masters. There's no left or right in this nation anymore -- you're a right wing pro corporate public servant who is either pro choice or pro life. From Reagan to H.W. Bush to Clinton to Bush to Obama, they're all about taking money from the middle class and giving it to the top .1%

Stop believing in fairy tales like laissez-faire economics, if it worked wouldn't we have seen results in the past 30 years of being fleeced by it?

This is the most intelligent thing anyone has ever posted on this board. We will never have a non-corporatist President and people who preach laissez-faire economy are as naive as people who preach communism.

The funniest thing about WF and his kind is the belief that Obama is a socialist.

Dudeman

06-07-2011, 08:12 AM

Fliiiiiiiiiip
Flop
Fliiiiiiiiiip
Flop
Fliiiiiiiiiip
Flop

http://www.prisonplanet.com/images/may2006/030506colbert.jpg

"He believes the same thing Wednesday that he believed on Monday, no matter what happened Tuesday. Events can change; this man's beliefs never will."

SonOfSmeagol

06-07-2011, 08:23 AM

Wrong.

He voted against raising the debt ceiling as a senator:

As the White House presses Congress "not to play chicken" with a vote to raise the nation's debt ceiling, President Barack Obama says his vote as a senator in 2006 against raising the debt cap was a mistake motivated by politics.

"Nobody likes to be tagged as having increased the debt limit for the United States by a trillion dollars," Obama said.

Five years ago, Senate Democrats — including Obama — objected to President George W. Bush's spending priorities and voted en bloc against Bush's call for raising the debt ceiling. Obama told ABC News on Thursday that no senator likes to be tagged as voting to increase the debt limit. But as president, he says he has a different perspective on the consequences (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110414/ap_on_bi_ge/us_obama_economy)

And, in 2007 and 2008 he took some time from voting on the issue to mull his mistake and refresh his perspective.

WRESTLINGFAN

06-07-2011, 08:26 AM

That's something completely different -- that was the dismantling of a war economy and suppression of military budgets through the Versailles Treaty. People went from the factories back out to the farms because there was unreasonably high demand for workers due to elastic demand of war product.

Actually, The New Deal worked and unemployment was headed to single digits up until funding was cut for federals programs in '37 because capital was so pissed off about the lack of profits. Plus, entire swaths of the country who are entirely unappreciative of socialism have potable water, electricity and municipal buildings still in use today thanks to The New Deal. Granted I'd much rather have left the south as Sherman had left it, but, it was nice to see Reconstruction finally come to a close thanks to the herculean effort of the US Government since the states around there sure as fuck didn't care.

Correct itself how? Was business somehow going to miracle away the fucking dust storms? The economy was highly agrarian and scarcely educated for a huge swath of the populace. Capital has not nor ever will invest in citizens, a large part of the justification for taxes. It's not their responsibility to build an economy, just simply integrate and profit in an established one. No first world country on Earth has relied on private industry to truly grow an economy. Everything was government spending through the military or massive public works projects. You can't rely on something that seeks profit, even if short term, to look at big picture stuff.

Trillions have been spent due to people like you who keep voting in neoliberal candidates who just want to do whatever the fuck possible to please their corporate masters. There's no left or right in this nation anymore -- you're a right wing pro corporate public servant who is either pro choice or pro life. From Reagan to H.W. Bush to Clinton to Bush to Obama, they're all about taking money from the middle class and giving it to the top .1%

Stop believing in fairy tales like laissez-faire economics, if it worked wouldn't we have seen results in the past 30 years of being fleeced by it?

During 20-21 we cut our losses and readjusted our financial structure. Production costs were down and a freedom of private enterprise not cost control or government intervention. The economy was not totally agragrian , there were huge swaths of indiustry

During FDR's depression taxes were raised whch furthered the depression.

Fast forward today you have ponzi schemes like social security and medicare which will become insolvent. Add that eventually 51% will be the majority of zero liability voters. A country can not sustain itself when 49% of the providers will eventually have no more left to provide to the recipient class

Corporate overlords? Im not into crony capitalism. The answer to everything is not just raise taxes. Last year the govt collected 2.2 trillion dollars, clearly its a spending problem as well

WRESTLINGFAN

06-07-2011, 08:28 AM

This is the most intelligent thing anyone has ever posted on this board. We will never have a non-corporatist President and people who preach laissez-faire economy are as naive as people who preach communism.

The funniest thing about WF and his kind is the belief that Obama is a socialist.

Quit grouping everyone in with Hannity

PLEASE GO BACK AND SEE WHERE I SAID HE WAS A SOCIALIST I STATED NUMEROUS TIMES THAT HE IS A CORPORATIST

RECALL THESE COMPANIES ? EXAMPLES

http://business-ethics.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Goldman-Sachs.jpg

http://www.guadalupelumberco.com/Images/General_Electric_Logo_3.gif

foodcourtdruide

06-07-2011, 08:34 AM

Quit grouping everyone in with Hannity

PLEASE GO BACK AND SEE WHERE I SAID HE WAS A SOCIALIST I STATED NUMEROUS TIMES THAT HE IS A CORPORATIST

RECALL THESE COMPANIES ? EXAMPLES

http://business-ethics.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Goldman-Sachs.jpg

http://www.guadalupelumberco.com/Images/General_Electric_Logo_3.gif

That's your opinion NOW that your bumper stickers have been updated to critique his alignment with big business more than his supposed socialism. I'm pretty sure your "obamacare" comments never mentioned the word socialism.

Syd

06-07-2011, 08:38 AM

During 20-21 we cut our losses and readjusted our financial structure. Production costs were down and a freedom of private enterprise not cost control or government intervention. The economy was not totally agragrian , there were huge swaths of indiustry

There was some industry, but the economy still employed a ridiculous number of farmers though some were little more than subsistence farmers. Funny you should mention free enterprise, especially since one of the factors of the Great Depression was the de-regulated financial market.

Fast forward today you have ponzi schemes like social security and medicare which will become insolvent. Add that eventually 51% will be the majority of zero liability voters. A country can not sustain itself when 49% of the providers will eventually have no more left to provide to the recipient class

Social Security is quite solvent, Medicare has issues but unless you're just up for letting people 65 and over die in the street you just need to grin and bear it. Half your medical costs come in the last 5 years of your life and there's just no way around it other than letting people die. It's unprofitable for seniors to be insured, otherwise 80%+ of seniors wouldn't be on Medicare.

Corporate overlords? Im not into crony capitalism. The answer to everything is not just raise taxes. Last year the govt collected 2.2 trillion dollars, clearly its a spending problem as well

here's the '10 budget:

Mandatory spending: $2.173 trillion (+14.9%)
$695 billion (+4.9%) – Social Security
$571 billion (+58.6%) – Other mandatory programs
$453 billion (+6.6%) – Medicare
$290 billion (+12.0%) – Medicaid
$164 billion (+18.0%) – Interest on National Debt

US receipt and expenditure estimates for fiscal year 2010.

Discretionary spending: $1.378 trillion (+13.8%)
$663.7 billion (+12.7%) – Department of Defense (including Overseas Contingency Operations)
$78.7 billion (−1.7%) – Department of Health and Human Services
$72.5 billion (+2.8%) – Department of Transportation
$52.5 billion (+10.3%) – Department of Veterans Affairs
$51.7 billion (+40.9%) – Department of State and Other International Programs
$47.5 billion (+18.5%) – Department of Housing and Urban Development
$46.7 billion (+12.8%) – Department of Education
$42.7 billion (+1.2%) – Department of Homeland Security
$26.3 billion (−0.4%) – Department of Energy
$26.0 billion (+8.8%) – Department of Agriculture
$23.9 billion (−6.3%) – Department of Justice
$18.7 billion (+5.1%) – National Aeronautics and Space Administration
$13.8 billion (+48.4%) – Department of Commerce
$13.3 billion (+4.7%) – Department of Labor
$13.3 billion (+4.7%) – Department of the Treasury
$12.0 billion (+6.2%) – Department of the Interior
$10.5 billion (+34.6%) – Environmental Protection Agency
$9.7 billion (+10.2%) – Social Security Administration
$7.0 billion (+1.4%) – National Science Foundation
$5.1 billion (−3.8%) – Corps of Engineers
$5.0 billion (+100%-NA) – National Infrastructure Bank
$1.1 billion (+22.2%) – Corporation for National and Community Service
$0.7 billion (0.0%) – Small Business Administration
$0.6 billion (−14.3%) – General Services Administration
$0 billion (−100%-NA) – Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP)
$0 billion (−100%-NA) – Financial stabilization efforts
$11 billion (+275%-NA) – Potential disaster costs
$19.8 billion (+3.7%) – Other Agencies
$105 billion – Other

So, what are you going to cut and what's your plan to deal with the ramifications of it?

Also, WF hasn't called Obama a socialist in months or I'd have called him out on it. Nail meet head, Obama's a corporate shill with no spine.

StanUpshaw

06-07-2011, 08:38 AM

WRESTLINGFAN

06-07-2011, 08:39 AM

That's your opinion NOW that your bumper stickers have been updated to critique his alignment with big business more than his supposed socialism. I'm pretty sure your "obamacare" comments never mentioned the word socialism.

Obama was bankrolled by wall street and many corporations during election season in 2008. Everything with you is bumper sticker rhetoric. My name isnt Hannity please quit grouping people who disagree with Obama as neocons, fox news and palin worshippers

Whats wrong with saying Obamacare? it should be a badge of honor for your side but you think its some sort of taboo word.

Im saying that the federal government should not have a role in managing retirement accounts and healthcare.

Syd

06-07-2011, 08:43 AM

Im saying that the federal government should not have a role in managing retirement accounts and healthcare.

The problem is, having someone else do it - unions, corporations or other industry representatives wouldn't exactly cover non-working parents (babyraisers). It just wasn't an option at the time, and sometimes isn't an option now when parents don't work.

The better way to do it is through pensions or retirement funds so that people have a chance to have a retirement consistent with their life, sure, but it just isn't feasible unless money is spread widely enough that people who are willing but unable to work are covered too.

foodcourtdruide

06-07-2011, 08:44 AM

At what point does "bumper sticker" become a bumper sticker?

It's an interesting question. "Obamacare" is clearly a bumper sticker slogan, do you agree?

I guess it's catchy, vague and sums up an extremely complex concept in a very simple way.

Do you agree?

WRESTLINGFAN

06-07-2011, 08:46 AM

There was some industry, but the economy still employed a ridiculous number of farmers though some were little more than subsistence farmers. Funny you should mention free enterprise, especially since one of the factors of the Great Depression was the de-regulated financial market.

Social Security is quite solvent, Medicare has issues but unless you're just up for letting people 65 and over die in the street you just need to grin and bear it. Half your medical costs come in the last 5 years of your life and there's just no way around it other than letting people die. It's unprofitable for seniors to be insured, otherwise 80%+ of seniors wouldn't be on Medicare.

here's the '10 budget:

Mandatory spending: $2.173 trillion (+14.9%)
$695 billion (+4.9%) – Social Security
$571 billion (+58.6%) – Other mandatory programs
$453 billion (+6.6%) – Medicare
$290 billion (+12.0%) – Medicaid
$164 billion (+18.0%) – Interest on National Debt

US receipt and expenditure estimates for fiscal year 2010.

Discretionary spending: $1.378 trillion (+13.8%)
$663.7 billion (+12.7%) – Department of Defense (including Overseas Contingency Operations)
$78.7 billion (−1.7%) – Department of Health and Human Services
$72.5 billion (+2.8%) – Department of Transportation
$52.5 billion (+10.3%) – Department of Veterans Affairs
$51.7 billion (+40.9%) – Department of State and Other International Programs
$47.5 billion (+18.5%) – Department of Housing and Urban Development
$46.7 billion (+12.8%) – Department of Education
$42.7 billion (+1.2%) – Department of Homeland Security
$26.3 billion (−0.4%) – Department of Energy
$26.0 billion (+8.8%) – Department of Agriculture
$23.9 billion (−6.3%) – Department of Justice
$18.7 billion (+5.1%) – National Aeronautics and Space Administration
$13.8 billion (+48.4%) – Department of Commerce
$13.3 billion (+4.7%) – Department of Labor
$13.3 billion (+4.7%) – Department of the Treasury
$12.0 billion (+6.2%) – Department of the Interior
$10.5 billion (+34.6%) – Environmental Protection Agency
$9.7 billion (+10.2%) – Social Security Administration
$7.0 billion (+1.4%) – National Science Foundation
$5.1 billion (−3.8%) – Corps of Engineers
$5.0 billion (+100%-NA) – National Infrastructure Bank
$1.1 billion (+22.2%) – Corporation for National and Community Service
$0.7 billion (0.0%) – Small Business Administration
$0.6 billion (−14.3%) – General Services Administration
$0 billion (−100%-NA) – Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP)
$0 billion (−100%-NA) – Financial stabilization efforts
$11 billion (+275%-NA) – Potential disaster costs
$19.8 billion (+3.7%) – Other Agencies
$105 billion – Other

So, what are you going to cut and what's your plan to deal with the ramifications of it?

Also, WF hasn't called Obama a socialist in months or I'd have called him out on it. Nail meet head, Obama's a corporate shill with no spine.

We can start by cutting the DoD. And putting an end to the wars. 10 billion a month plus a new front in Libya has already added to that tab. Also DHS should be eliminated. We spend billions on menial things like feeling up nuns, making sure agents are checking to see if shoes are off etc. We go thru these draconian processes while having our civil liberties violated.

We were warned 50 years ago about a military industrial complex and we have entire industries designed for just that.

I would love to have a lot of these cabinets like energy, education cut totally but Id be willing to start with small cuts

Medicare needs to be fixed, same thing with SS. When these programs were implemented there were no forward planning of unintened consequences. People didnt live into their 80's like today.

foodcourtdruide

06-07-2011, 08:46 AM

Obama was bankrolled by wall street and many corporations during election season in 2008. Everything with you is bumper sticker rhetoric. My name isnt Hannity please quit grouping people who disagree with Obama as neocons, fox news and palin worshippers

Whats wrong with saying Obamacare? it should be a badge of honor for your side but you think its some sort of taboo word.

Im saying that the federal government should not have a role in managing retirement accounts and healthcare.

I like how you ask to not be lumped into "a side" and then talk about "my side".

You ARE lumped in with the Hannity/Fox News/Palin group because your rhetoric simply echoes them. The things you say in the post above are nice, however it's like clockwork that your opinion on a topic will simply be the opposite of Obama's actions.

Dudeman

06-07-2011, 08:46 AM

My name isnt Hannity please quit grouping people who disagree with Obama as neocons, fox news and palin worshippers

2 points:

1. You love to group everyone you disagree with as being the same... Obama, Kucinich, Moore, MSNBC, Pelosi, some random blogger you found on google. So just be careful to not do to others what annoys you.

Mike's lemonade is banned, and you blame it on everyone on the other side.

2. Yes, you have different military ideas than those other people. But you do overlap with many domestic policies, and especially with your hatred of the left. You may not say you want to be grouped with those people, but on many (most) issues, you sound exactly like them.

Furthermore, you get much more angry with the Obama administration than the Bush/Republicans, even though their military beliefs are much more extreme (remember the 2004 campaign?)

WRESTLINGFAN

06-07-2011, 08:48 AM

It's an interesting question. "Obamacare" is clearly a bumper sticker slogan, do you agree?

I guess it's catchy, vague and sums up an extremely complex concept in a very simple way.

Do you agree?

Is Romneycare bumper sticker too ?

foodcourtdruide

06-07-2011, 08:48 AM

Also, WF hasn't called Obama a socialist in months or I'd have called him out on it. Nail meet head, Obama's a corporate shill with no spine.

Exactly. His rhetoric has changed as the rhetoric from the right has changed. It's now hip to consider Obama a corporate shill as opposed to a socialist.

Dudeman

06-07-2011, 08:49 AM

foodcourtdruide

06-07-2011, 08:49 AM

2 points:

1. You love to group everyone you disagree with as being the same... Obama, Kucinich, Moore, MSNBC, Pelosi, some random blogger you found on google. So just be careful to not do to others what annoys you.

Mike's lemonade is banned, and you blame it on everyone on the other side.

2. Yes, you have different military ideas than those other people. But you do overlap with many domestic policies, and especially with your hatred of the left. You may not say you want to be grouped with those people, but on many (most) issues, you sound exactly like them.

Furthermore, you get much more angry with the Obama administration than the Bush/Republicans, even though their military beliefs are much more extreme (remember the 2004 campaign?)

No Dudeman, none of this ever happened. WF hasn't been posting 5 negative press clippings of Obama a day. He's completely impartial and his beliefs aren't driven by a hatred from the left as Hannity/Fox News/etc.

SonOfSmeagol

06-07-2011, 08:51 AM

1. You love to group everyone you disagree with as being the same... Obama, Kucinich, Moore, MSNBC, Pelosi, some random blogger you found on google. So just be careful to not do to others what annoys you.

I would say that you do way more of this than he does - from a generally left-right perspective.

WRESTLINGFAN

06-07-2011, 08:52 AM

I like how you ask to not be lumped into "a side" and then talk about "my side".

You ARE lumped in with the Hannity/Fox News/Palin group because your rhetoric simply echoes them. The things you say in the post above are nice, however it's like clockwork that your opinion on a topic will simply be the opposite of Obama's actions.

Hannity and the neocons want more wars. They probably can not wait if an when we start a war with Iran.

My opinions on many issues is contrary for them. They want the bloated military, they want the patriot act, they are for nation building, they march with the religious right and do not want gays to marry. On those Issues I disagree with them. so how am I being grouped in with them.

I have stated my disagreements with the right, what are your disagreements with Obama ?

foodcourtdruide

06-07-2011, 08:54 AM

Hannity and the neocons want more wars. They probably can not wait if an when we start a war with Iran.

My opinions on many issues is contrary for them. They want the bloated military, they want the patriot act, they are for nation building, they march with the religious right and do not want gays to marry. On those Issues I disagree with them. so how am I being grouped in with them.

I have stated my disagreements with the right, what are your disagreements with Obama ?

None WF. I believe everything Obama believes is right, just like you believe everything Obama believes is wrong.

foodcourtdruide

06-07-2011, 08:56 AM

I would say that you do way more of this than he does - from a generally left-right perspective.

Are you kidding? Have you read WF's posts? He has gotten better, but he constantly will answer a debate topic with something "the left" believes rather than a point made by the person he was debating with.

WRESTLINGFAN

06-07-2011, 08:56 AM

No Dudeman, none of this ever happened. WF hasn't been posting 5 negative press clippings of Obama a day. He's completely impartial and his beliefs aren't driven by a hatred from the left as Hannity/Fox News/etc.

Enough with the generalizations witht he fox news mantra.

Why does it bother you that I criticize Obama? I did not vote for him. He was elected as a referendum to the screwups of the Bush administration and he is continuing them. He was supposed to be the anti war president. He was elected to fix this economy. He was supposed to be pro civil liberties and against the patriot act. All policies he has continued.

Enough with the over the top he hates the left speech already.

The country is not headed in the right direction, all the money borrowed, all the talk about bringing troops home were catchy phrases in 2008 but its like another Bush term

WRESTLINGFAN

06-07-2011, 08:59 AM

None WF. I believe everything Obama believes is right, just like you believe everything Obama believes is wrong.

WRONG FCD

I posted in the past that I agreed with pulling the missile defense shield in Poland, Didnt have a problem taking out some black teenagers off the coast of Somalia. Killing OBL. Good work.

foodcourtdruide

06-07-2011, 09:00 AM

WRONG FCD

I posted in the past that I agreed with pulling the missile defense shield in Poland, Didnt have a problem taking out some black teenagers off the coast of Somalia. Killing OBL. Good work.

Wow, you should switch your party to democrat.

WRESTLINGFAN

06-07-2011, 09:01 AM

Wow, you should switch your party to democrat.

Democrat party ?

Someones been listening to Rush :lol:

foodcourtdruide

06-07-2011, 09:02 AM

Enough with the generalizations witht he fox news mantra.

Why does it bother you that I criticize Obama? I did not vote for him. He was elected as a referendum to the screwups of the Bush administration and he is continuing them. He was supposed to be the anti war president. He was elected to fix this economy. He was supposed to be pro civil liberties and against the patriot act. All policies he has continued.

Enough with the over the top he hates the left speech already.

The country is not headed in the right direction, all the money borrowed, all the talk about bringing troops home were catchy phrases in 2008 but its like another Bush term

Nope. Sorry, I believe you're an idealogue and I'll call you out on it.

foodcourtdruide

06-07-2011, 09:03 AM

Democrat party ?

Someones been listening to Rush :lol:

I don't get it. I'm not being mean or confrontational. I really don't understand this comment.

WRESTLINGFAN

06-07-2011, 09:08 AM

Nope. Sorry, I believe you're correct.

Fixed

Jujubees2

06-07-2011, 09:09 AM

I don't get it. I'm not being mean or confrontational. I really don't understand this comment.

I think he's pointing out that it's the Democratic Party. I think Rush Limbaugh kept calling it the Democrat party which is incorrect

Dudeman

06-07-2011, 09:09 AM

My opinions on many issues is contrary for them. They want the bloated military, they want the patriot act, they are for nation building, they march with the religious right and do not want gays to marry. On those Issues I disagree with them. so how am I being grouped in with them.?

1. You may not realize it, but your rhetoric sounds very similar to Hannity. If you used the same level of hatred and vile rhetoric toward the neocons, it may be a bit more credible. But you save that hatred only for the left.

2. You group people on the other side as all being the same. So don't do what you don't like done to you.

WRESTLINGFAN

06-07-2011, 09:09 AM

I don't get it. I'm not being mean or confrontational. I really don't understand this comment.

Limbaugh sometimes call the Dems as the Democrat party instead of Democratic party.

foodcourtdruide

06-07-2011, 09:10 AM

I think he's pointing out that it's the Democratic Party. I think Rush Limbaugh kept calling it the Democrat party which is incorrect

Oh, good one.

WRESTLINGFAN

06-07-2011, 09:14 AM

1. You may not realize it, but your rhetoric sounds very similar to Hannity. If you used the same level of hatred and vile rhetoric toward the neocons, it may be a bit more credible. But you save that hatred only for the left.

2. You group people on the other side as all being the same. So don't do what you don't like done to you.

The neocons are working with Obama in concert with the patriot act and endless wars for example.

One of Obamas campaign points was that he would be an anti war, pro civil liberties president. Clearly he's not.

In general terms, I think a lot pf people on this board voted for Obama. I'll say that a lot are probably left of center. I wouldnt call anyone here a pinko commie, leave that rhetoric up to the AM Talkers

Zorro

06-07-2011, 09:46 AM

I would say that you do way more of this than he does - from a generally left-right perspective.

Funny you should bring this up. With very few exceptions the posters in this and similar threads are so predictable WF Right, DM Left. It's like they get their info from Fox/MSNBC and then googe out proof to try and look like they're not Fox/MSNBC drones

WRESTLINGFAN

06-07-2011, 10:18 AM

Funny you should bring this up. With very few exceptions the posters in this and similar threads are so predictable WF Right, DM Left. It's like they get their info from Fox/MSNBC and then googe out proof to try and look like they're not Fox/MSNBC drones

Its not even about watching Fox news. They are fun to look at because of the leggy bimbos. just like telemundo. I know Spanish but If I didnt Id be watching it only for the busty newscasters and weathergirls

For news I go to politico, bloomberg or Yahoo news as references

WRESTLINGFAN

06-10-2011, 08:22 AM

I wonder how these youg lads are doing?

They didnt realize that Obamas health care plan would give thousands of waivers to corporations and unions

<iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/wOtGr1JFCnE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Poor kids, some of their mommies and daddies are out of work due to his stimulus package. Did they envision the peaceful Obama starting a 3rd war illegally, or continuing to violate civil liberties? Maybe one of them got violated by a TSA Agent.

<iframe width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/WtGrp5MbzAI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Dude!

06-10-2011, 08:24 AM

I wonder how these youg lads are doing?

<iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/wOtGr1JFCnE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

they've all ended up in our
"what kind of animal" threads

WRESTLINGFAN

06-10-2011, 08:26 AM

they've all ended up in our
"what kind of animal" threads

They should check the health and fitness thread. Some need it

hanso

06-10-2011, 05:02 PM

Is Romneycare bumper sticker too ?

They won't let him have it. (See Newt Gingrich's statement on the Paul Ryan plan). And where his numbers are now.

hanso

06-10-2011, 05:15 PM

Exactly. His rhetoric has changed as the rhetoric from the right has changed. It's now hip to consider Obama a corporate shill as opposed to a socialist.

'Nanny state' was getting big there. Just couldn't leave that one out often for a time.

WRESTLINGFAN

06-12-2011, 04:09 PM

Exactly!!!

http://static7.businessinsider.com/image/4df0b2214bd7c8eb61260000/time-magazine.jpg

Syd

06-13-2011, 06:57 AM

The only step toward recovery left is outright calling for banks to eat some of the debt they accrued over the years.

Lowering government spending won't work, there's not enough traction for Keynesian economics to be applied .

Won't happen, though. Nice to think it could. At least inflation isn't all that bad right now.

TripleSkeet

06-13-2011, 09:29 AM

Exactly!!!

http://static7.businessinsider.com/image/4df0b2214bd7c8eb61260000/time-magazine.jpg

I like how right above it they say "Dont worry, theres life after high school". Not if you were to look at that front page.

keithy_19

06-13-2011, 01:03 PM

I like how right above it they say "Dont worry, theres life after high school". Not if you were to look at that front page.

:lol:

This is why I am the way I am.

Dudeman

06-13-2011, 02:09 PM

I like how right above it they say "Dont worry, theres life after high school". Not if you were to look at that front page.

meanwhile WFs solution is to cut things like the FDA- he has argued on this board against the FDA testing for E Coli and Solmonella in the food- and the cover also makes reference to the E coli outbreak in Germany's vegetables is causing Hemolytic Uremic Syndrome (HUS) in 30% of the infected patients... rmorbidity (renal failure, dialysis, transplants) and mortality- sounds like a real winning solution.

This was WF's mature answer to how to deal with the Salmonella in peanut butter that prompted a recall when it was found by the FDA:

How about starting a new Federal bureaucracy. Thats always the most effiecent thing to do

:lol:

The Department of Recalls.

WRESTLINGFAN

06-13-2011, 04:59 PM

meanwhile WFs solution is to cut things like the FDA- he has argued on this board against the FDA testing for E Coli and Solmonella in the food- and the cover also makes reference to the E coli outbreak in Germany's vegetables is causing Hemolytic Uremic Syndrome (HUS) in 30% of the infected patients... rmorbidity (renal failure, dialysis, transplants) and mortality- sounds like a real winning solution.

This was WF's mature answer to how to deal with the Salmonella in peanut butter that prompted a recall when it was found by the FDA:

The produce industry can police itself

http://supermarketnews.com/viewpoints/fda_intervention_not_1027/

"In this case, the FDA should rest easy: The U.S. produce industry is already well on its way toward developing a standardized electronic traceability system that will significantly improve recall response times and narrow the impact of future outbreaks."

Dudeman

06-13-2011, 05:06 PM

The produce industry can police itself

http://supermarketnews.com/viewpoints/fda_intervention_not_1027/

In this case, the FDA should rest easy: The U.S. produce industry is already well on its way toward developing a standardized electronic traceability system that will significantly improve recall response times and narrow the impact of future outbreaks.

translation... read, google for a website that supports your preconceived ideological based solution, post.

supermarketnews.com- where we all go for our news

WRESTLINGFAN

06-13-2011, 05:11 PM

translation... read, google for a website that supports your preconceived ideological based solution, post.

supermarketnews.com- where we all go for our news

And where do you shop for your produce? At Saks?

Even if that program wasnt in place. There are already state depts of health. You love to have redundancy and more pencil pushers

WRESTLINGFAN

06-13-2011, 05:26 PM

Rahm would have put Obama in his place

http://newsflavor.com/politics/us-politics/white-house-insider-obamas-rage-over-netanyahu-meeting-what-the-f-ck-was-that/

cougarjake13

06-13-2011, 05:32 PM

awesome

WRESTLINGFAN

06-14-2011, 10:12 AM

Obama “has grace and elegance” ?

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

His inner Chicago spewed out and Daley was the victim

Syd

06-15-2011, 10:28 AM

The produce industry can police itself

It can police itself when the number of deaths caused doesn't cost the companies any more than it does to do something about it. Which is fine, I guess, so long as you're not the one dying.

WRESTLINGFAN

06-15-2011, 10:37 AM

Thank you Kucinich , Paul & others.

http://beta.news.yahoo.com/us-lawmakers-file-suit-against-obama-over-libya-164608287.html

:clap::clap:

cougarjake13

06-15-2011, 11:11 AM

Thank you Kucinich , Paul & others.

http://beta.news.yahoo.com/us-lawmakers-file-suit-against-obama-over-libya-164608287.html

:clap::clap:

what would it accomplish anyway ??

by the time they tried to impeach his term would be over

WRESTLINGFAN

06-15-2011, 11:19 AM

what would it accomplish anyway ??

by the time they tried to impeach his term would be over

The H..O.R. can vote to stop funding

Impeachment would never happen. Dubya did a lot of offenses and a huge Democratic majority in both houses would not consider it.

Even though if the House impeached him, if theres a majority Dem senate it would be impossible to remove him from office.

WRESTLINGFAN

06-15-2011, 11:27 AM

Holder needs to be marched in front of congress and explain.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/dailybeast/20110615/ts_dailybeast/14722_gunrunningstingblowsuphousehearingsonatfsfas tandfurious#mwpphu-container

hanso

06-15-2011, 03:35 PM

And where do you shop for your produce? At Saks?

Even if that program wasnt in place. There are already state depts of health. You love to have redundancy and more pencil pushers

I'd like to see you find some chart that shows redundancy of state depts of health to any others. There is no such thing.

Syd

06-15-2011, 03:40 PM

I'd like to see you find some chart that shows redundancy of state depts of health to any others. There is no such thing.

If it is what he is getting at, even with redundancies, public healthcare still has less administrative costs than private healthcare. (http://healthcarereform.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=004083)

Also, with life insurance securitization there's an incentive to get people to die faster (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/06/business/06insurance.html)

The bankers plan to buy “life settlements,” life insurance policies that ill and elderly people sell for cash — $400,000 for a $1 million policy, say, depending on the life expectancy of the insured person. Then they plan to “securitize” these policies, in Wall Street jargon, by packaging hundreds or thousands together into bonds. They will then resell those bonds to investors, like big pension funds, who will receive the payouts when people with the insurance die.

The earlier the policyholder dies, the bigger the return — though if people live longer than expected, investors could get poor returns or even lose money.

Specifically, there's a conflict of interest here if anyone is remotely involved in healthcare. A corporation's primary goal is profit, and if allowing people to die is profitable than their goal is to limit healthcare to those with life insurance. Ever wonder why Republicans are railing so hard against Medicare all of a sudden?

hanso

06-15-2011, 03:49 PM

If it is what he is getting at, even with redundancies, public healthcare still has less administrative costs than private healthcare. (http://healthcarereform.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=004083)

Also, with life insurance securitization there's an incentive to get people to die faster (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/06/business/06insurance.html)

Specifically, there's a conflict of interest here if anyone is remotely involved in healthcare. A corporation's primary goal is profit, and if allowing people to die is profitable than their goal is to limit healthcare to those with life insurance. Ever wonder why Republicans are railing so hard against Medicare all of a sudden?

That is true there is power with numbers. No mater how hard vouchers get pushed on us.

I saw you brought up the FDA. There is no overlap with what he is saying.

Syd

06-15-2011, 04:01 PM

That is true there is power with numbers. No mater how hard vouchers get pushed on us.

I saw you brought up the FDA. There is no overlap with what he is saying.

More numbers: ever wonder why the elderly all but exclusively rely on Medicare for healthcare? Final 6 months of your life incur 50% of your total healthcare costs.

There's little financial incentive whatsoever to provide healthcare to seniors. Once Medicare is gone/changed to vouchers (read: walking ghost) they'll die off. The Boomers are the last ones with the clout to keep Medicare around. The rest of us pretty much will not have any ability to care for ourselves without depending on immediate family. Since nursing homes and medical treatments aren't going to get any cheaper, you better hope to fuck your savings are enough for then.

Basically, we're (http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/06/chart-of-the-day-for-american-workers-no-economic-recovery.php) totally fucked (http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/03/30/chart-of-the-day-us-financial-profits/)

Capital is at the point that they can run a propaganda campaign so effective that the majority of the nation will not only vote against their own interests but they will go out and protest in DC against themselves.

They're even at the point that they convinced people deficit is an issue and we're facing inflation, yet, amazingly enough most corporations are flush with cash and profits and have shown that they're totally fine with keeping cash on hand. If inflation were an issue, they'd be converting the cash into equipment upgrades yet amazingly enough it isn't happening at a rate that is any more than to keep payrolls limited so that they can work short-staffed.

Whole country is so fucked, but it's ok because we have front row seats. And really, really low taxes for the people who WF is convinced will save the economy (yet miraculously aren't) (http://www.offthechartsblog.org/top-5-charts-on-the-bush-tax-cuts/)

WRESTLINGFAN

06-15-2011, 05:00 PM

Gov't redundancy. Fuck its only money. Helicopter Bernanke can inflate us some more

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/federal-eye/2011/03/government_overlap_costs_taxpa.html

They'll have plenty to choose from, according to a Government Accountability Office report released Tuesday. The U.S. government has more than 100 programs dealing with surface transportation issues, 82 monitoring teacher quality, 80 for economic development, 47 for job training, 20 offices or programs devoted to homelessness and 17 different grant programs for disaster preparedness. Another 15 agencies or offices handle food safety, and five are working to ensure the federal government uses less gasoline.

WRESTLINGFAN

06-15-2011, 05:33 PM

Is the big O on the blow ?

http://weaselzippers.us/2011/06/14/obama-blames-atm-machines-for-high-unemployment-rates-wait-did-he-say-atm-machines/

If thats the case the internal combustion engine put a lot of horse and buggy operators out of business

Syd

06-16-2011, 05:53 AM

Gov't redundancy. Fuck its only money. Helicopter Bernanke can inflate us some more

A) you know inflation helps the middle class/working class/poors, or rather, anyone who holds debt? It moves wealth away from the creditor class to the other 90% of the nation.

B) if there was actual inflation, riddle me why banks are all sitting at something like double the reserve requirements? If the dollar was in that much trouble, they would be getting rid of dollars and converting them into durable goods or commodities. However, they're not. The dollar is experiencing minimal inflation because the cash supply is being severely limited -- inflation helps the little guy, deflation helps the big guy. The loan you got for your house was back when inflation was higher, so if you keep the dollar depressed, you get a better rate of return. That's how financial companies are pulling in massive profits.

Seriously, if you have ANY debt, inflation is a good thing. Your loans are now easier to repay and any goods exported may be cheaper. The only reason you want inflation not to happen is if you have many loans with an interest rate that isn't sufficient to overcome inflation. So, seeing as no one here is BB&T or Bancorp I'm pretty sure we're all in favor of inflation. Stop mentioning it unless you're a board member of a bank.

Is the big O on the blow ?

http://weaselzippers.us/2011/06/14/obama-blames-atm-machines-for-high-unemployment-rates-wait-did-he-say-atm-machines/

If thats the case the internal combustion engine put a lot of horse and buggy operators out of business

American businesses earned profits at an annual rate of $1.659 trillion in the third quarter, according to a Commerce Department report released Tuesday. That is the highest figure recorded since the government began keeping track over 60 years ago, at least in nominal or noninflation-adjusted terms.

He hit the nail on the head and you're too concerned with whatever corporate nonsense gets thrown at you to see the problem. By reducing payrolls and converting to automated systems, companies can seek their short term profit targets. There's no incentive to hire workers right now because productivity is up as well as profits. Right now, the goal is to (continue to) reduce the quality of life in America so that actual wages can be depressed. There's been no real wage growth in the past 3 decades so right now the goal is to reduce wages overall, especially in the bottom 60% -- the working and poor classes making roughly $60k a household. The ones most vulnerable to predatory lending and serfdom-through-credit card debt.

WRESTLINGFAN

06-16-2011, 06:19 AM

A) you know inflation helps the middle class/working class/poors, or rather, anyone who holds debt? It moves wealth away from the creditor class to the other 90% of the nation.

B) if there was actual inflation, riddle me why banks are all sitting at something like double the reserve requirements? If the dollar was in that much trouble, they would be getting rid of dollars and converting them into durable goods or commodities. However, they're not. The dollar is experiencing minimal inflation because the cash supply is being severely limited -- inflation helps the little guy, deflation helps the big guy. The loan you got for your house was back when inflation was higher, so if you keep the dollar depressed, you get a better rate of return. That's how financial companies are pulling in massive profits.

Seriously, if you have ANY debt, inflation is a good thing. Your loans are now easier to repay and any goods exported may be cheaper. The only reason you want inflation not to happen is if you have many loans with an interest rate that isn't sufficient to overcome inflation. So, seeing as no one here is BB&T or Bancorp I'm pretty sure we're all in favor of inflation. Stop mentioning it unless you're a board member of a bank.

Inflation being a good thing? Lets hope we dont have to wheelbarrel our worthless dollars to the suoermarket.

He hit the nail on the head and you're too concerned with whatever corporate nonsense gets thrown at you to see the problem. By reducing payrolls and converting to automated systems, companies can seek their short term profit targets. There's no incentive to hire workers right now because productivity is up as well as profits. Right now, the goal is to (continue to) reduce the quality of life in America so that actual wages can be depressed. There's been no real wage growth in the past 3 decades so right now the goal is to reduce wages overall, especially in the bottom 60% -- the working and poor classes making roughly $60k a household. The ones most vulnerable to predatory lending and serfdom-through-credit card debt.

Interesting that when Bachmann or Palin say something idiotic, the press hounds them and rightfully so . there is also no doubt that this is the most economically illiterate President we have had since LBJ

Saying that technology is slowing the recovery is just as crazy as spending your way out of the recession

The President off script just doesnt come across as articulate at all.

WRESTLINGFAN

06-16-2011, 06:20 AM

I love his excuse about Libya stating that we are not leading the mission but NATO is. Who leads NATO? Its an American general. Project gunrunner is getting zero press. Had this been dubyas administration it would have been non stop press

WRESTLINGFAN

06-16-2011, 06:31 AM

10 Million a day for what?

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2011/06/obama-libya-war-congress-authority-war-powers.html

Syd

06-16-2011, 06:35 AM

Interesting that when Bachmann or Palin say something idiotic, the press hounds them and rightfully so . there is also no doubt that this is the most economically illiterate President we have had since LBJ

Saying that technology is slowing the recovery is just as crazy as spending your way out of the recession

The President off script just doesnt come across as articulate at all.

Automation is the single most deadly factor in job loss in America, especially in jobs that create wealth rather than move it upward.

StanUpshaw

06-16-2011, 07:35 AM

Automation is the single most deadly factor in job loss in America, especially in jobs that create wealth rather than move it upward.

Quoting for posterity.

WRESTLINGFAN

06-16-2011, 07:55 AM

Syd

06-16-2011, 10:46 AM

Peter Schiff is a fucking tool who thinks that 15% unemployment is better than anything else in a consumer economy

WRESTLINGFAN

06-16-2011, 11:26 AM

How can we survive on a 70% consumption based economy? We hardly make things here. Schiff called this years ago too much debt, too much spending, not enough savings and hardly any manufacturing.

Schiff calls out Bernanke because of the monetizing of the debt, QE2 and the manipulating of the currency financed by t bills.

The fed really needs to be audited. In almost 100 years since its existed it has never had an audit. Its an institution with 12 private member banks.

foodcourtdruide

06-16-2011, 11:35 AM

WRESTLINGFAN

06-16-2011, 11:47 AM

I know you like this because it's critical of Obama. However, I think these guys aren't really making the argument that opposes who people supported the bailouts. The argument is the domino effect of those companies failing would have destroyed this countries economy. In a very superficial way, if THE ONLY THING THAT EXISTED were those companies, allowing them to fail would have been the wise thing. However, I think the intention of the bailout was to avoid the collapse of our economy, which would have caused widespread panic and crippled our nation. The point you, and guys like this seem to make is "the bailout will end up costing us money" and I don't think anyone will argue that. The point I WISH you would make (which I think you can't) is that the country would have survived WITHOUT the bailout.

Was a 700 billion bailout needed? The reason why it was a so called success because a lot of the banks were forced to take it when they were in healthy financial status. The bailout was nothing but favortism started under yes Dubya. Why did GS get 1005 on the dollar in regards to the Cred Def Swaps with AIG? Lets see Paulson was with GS at one time. Why did AIG and other get saved but Lehman went under? Dont forget about the bailout of Fannie Freddie and the Auto companies. That was with borrowed money so that was not on the assets side of the ledger.

Big banks like State Street, Wells Fargo and others were forced to take TARP

Bernanke is a disaster, the feds policy of monetizing the debt and buying T bills and keeping rates near 0 is only kicking the can down the road. we are heading towards a collapse . Think our payments on the debt are high now, wait till our interest payments hit the trillions

Speaking of bailouts. This is interesting. I am on the oppisite side of the spectrum of Sanders on almost everything else but he makes a good point here

http://sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=ECE720E4-D5D6-4EFF-937C-DCADA784C3F9

Another one I disagree with on everything else, he hits a homerun grilling helicopter Ben

<iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/_jjXCm3W4hA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Syd

06-16-2011, 09:43 PM

Why did AIG and other get saved but Lehman went under?

AIG had better lobbyists. The bailout of the banks was DOA because the damage from Lehman shitting the bed triggered all the money that had previously been infinitely leveraged through CDOs suddenly became real money banks owed to each other and set off a massive shitstorm.

Bob Impact

06-16-2011, 11:58 PM

Peter Schiff is a fucking tool who thinks that 15% unemployment is better than anything else in a consumer economy

Schiff is wrong about a few things, but right about far too many more to be considered a tool.

WRESTLINGFAN

06-17-2011, 04:58 AM

Syd

06-17-2011, 06:27 AM

Schiff is wrong about a few things, but right about far too many more to be considered a tool.

What, because he was right about the housing bubble? Everyone knew it was coming but there was too much lobbyist money for it to garner any attention amongst the public at large.

Syd

06-17-2011, 06:29 AM

Obama Bernanke Geithner Summers et al are like kids with a chemistry set trying to come up with a concoction but everything they are doing isnt working. He can spin it on how the auto bailout was a success which it wasnt. The man is imploding. Libya is turning out to be another failure, Khadafy is still in power we might be actually assisting al qaeda, plus he did not receive authority to start another war.

The auto bailout was a success because the U-6 in some of those areas is still under 30% and the standard of living is still reasonably the same. Hell, the U-6 has gone down to almost below 20% recently from what I remember

No matter what, every country subsidizes durable goods production. Why you're raging against it is beyond me. It's a function of any capitalist economy to ensure there's some wealth production within the borders.

CountryBob

06-17-2011, 06:49 AM

WRESTLINGFAN

06-17-2011, 06:50 AM

hanso

06-17-2011, 06:54 AM

It's a loan.

WRESTLINGFAN

06-17-2011, 06:56 AM

It's a loan.

And they are not paying it back

hanso

06-17-2011, 07:13 AM

Call it what it is. Not the hijacked right wing term.

Syd

06-17-2011, 09:51 AM

A.J.

06-17-2011, 09:54 AM

If you want to talk about illegal immigrants, how about all the eastern Europeans that are brought in under shady status to build shit in the south? Not only are states extending massive tax breaks to attract businesses (that leave as soon as the tax breaks evaporate) but they're bringing in foreign nationals to build the stuff.

"Excellent, Zutroy! Work hard, and each day you'll get a shiny penny."

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091201065046/simpsons/images/thumb/4/47/Zutroy.jpg/491px-Zutroy.jpg

hanso

06-17-2011, 10:12 AM

The bailouts of the autos were not a success. GM has lost money since the IPO. Why should we go deeper into debt to prop up these incompetent companies selling products nobody wants

We cant continue to support a company posting losses continued with borrowed money

Recent results

On February 24, 2011, General Motors reported its first full-year profit since 2004. It can carry forward previous losses to reduce tax liability on future earnings. It earned $4.7 billion in 2010. The Wall Street Journal estimated the tax break, including credits for costs related to pensions and other expenses can be worth as much as $45 billion over the next 20 years.
(The loan was $6.7 billion )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors
Recent results

Where are you seeing any loss? The only thing I have seen is the recent higher price losses in newer car sales from most car makers due to Japan's catastrophe . (a lot of auto parts come from there)

After only 1 years profit out of the chute. You are ready to call it a loss? Watch this develop over the next year or so. And when It doubles. The stocks held by Treasury department can be sold at a profit.
http://www.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=NYSE:GM

WRESTLINGFAN

06-17-2011, 11:37 AM

GM did not pay their loans back. That commercial Ed Whitacre boasted proudly that every dime was paid back was taken from an Escrow acct. More details here

<iframe width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/SOaS2SymjQ4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

GM will turn a profit once the entire loan is paid off, in which it will never be accomplished. sales for the volt they are dismal even with $4 a gallon. Thats the market declaring that the demand is low

When the treasury sells the remaining stake it will be at a loss. GM had an IPO of around $34. It is trading at less than $29. If it was going to be sold off by the treasury we would be in the red by about 14 billion

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=gm

Obama wants this done this year because he is hoping people have short memories, he sure as hell wont be selling GM back in an election year

WRESTLINGFAN

06-17-2011, 11:39 AM

Obama catching heat from both sides. Hopefully more dems will join. He is not an imperial president

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110617/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_us_libya

hanso

06-17-2011, 02:44 PM

WRESTLINGFAN

06-17-2011, 03:15 PM

That statement was just as crazy the first time you posted it. Beside the fact that the program started under Bush. What Obama said was that GM should have it paid in full by around one years time.

It doesnt make it better that it was started under a republican president.

A couple of years later. GM still makes shit products, its stock has lost billions leaving us on the lam in a sea of red ink and still has a bad business model It should have died

WRESTLINGFAN

06-17-2011, 03:16 PM

Congress finally grows a spine. Defund this motherfucker

http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/house/166897-cantor-hints-at-libya-defunding-bill-next-week

Syd

06-17-2011, 07:54 PM

It won't be -- it's political theater. The Republicans suggesting it work for companies that aren't terribly involved with the Libyan war so they can get away with proposing it to be de-funded. The rest of Congress and the Senate will fall in line for an actual vote.

WRESTLINGFAN

06-18-2011, 08:09 AM

Day 90 and the imperial president trudges along with his illegal war

He not only sucks as president he sucks on the links. All the golfing he does and hes ranked 108th

http://www.provicalm.com/2011/05/look-out-tiger-obamas-climbing-the-golf-rankings/

hanso

06-19-2011, 03:34 PM

It doesnt make it better that it was started under a republican president.

A couple of years later. GM still makes shit products, its stock has lost billions leaving us on the lam in a sea of red ink and still has a bad business model It should have died

$4.7 billion profit in 2010, yeah that sucks doughnut?

WRESTLINGFAN

06-20-2011, 03:36 AM

$4.7 billion profit in 2010, yeah that sucks doughnut?

Its not a profit. They have yet to pay every single dollar back

WRESTLINGFAN

06-21-2011, 06:52 AM

ATF Chief to resign

Issa needs to subpoena him too. Saw reports saying that he acted as the fall guy. DOJ needs to explain this

http://news.yahoo.com/s/atlantic/20110620/ts_atlantic/atfchiefresignovermexicangunscontroversy39030_1#mw pphu-container

WRESTLINGFAN

06-21-2011, 10:36 AM

My my hey hey How many Arabs killed today?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43474045/ns/politics-white_house/

WRESTLINGFAN

06-21-2011, 12:52 PM

A screwup in Obamacare. I am shocked. Still remember Pelosis shrieking vpice we gotta get this passed before reading it.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110621/ap_on_bi_ge/us_health_overhaul_glitch

A.J.

06-22-2011, 10:13 AM

Gore: Obama has 'failed' (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/06/22/gore-obama-has-failed/?hpt=hp_bn4)

Furtherman

06-22-2011, 10:18 AM

Gore: Obama has 'failed' (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/06/22/gore-obama-has-failed/?hpt=hp_bn4)

I don't think it's possible for anyone to fail as much as Gore.

A.J.

06-22-2011, 10:28 AM

I don't think it's possible for anyone to fail as much as Gore.

Tipper would agree.

And as I've said a hundred times: even Walter Mondale won his home state.

WRESTLINGFAN

06-22-2011, 11:13 AM

RECOVERY SUMMER BABY!!!!! OBAMA SAVED US!!!!!

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/fed-cuts-growth-rate-forecast-for-2011-2012-2011-06-22?siteid=bnbh

WRESTLINGFAN

06-22-2011, 12:20 PM

Wow, Farrakhan Throwing him under the bus. Guess he wore out his usefulness

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/20/louis-farrakhan-obama-murderer-assassin_n_880973.html

WRESTLINGFAN

06-24-2011, 09:42 AM

House votes no confidence on Obamas war. Im sure there will be a way to get around it. Kerry and McCain are the leading supporters in the Senate.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0611/57711.html

hanso

07-02-2011, 06:03 PM

WRESTLINGFAN

07-05-2011, 05:42 PM

Reid allows Obamas illegal war to continue

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0711/58354.html#comments

WRESTLINGFAN

07-07-2011, 12:07 PM

Obama admin seeking to stop execution. Tx should give him the finger and fry this illegal

http://news.yahoo.com/white-house-seeks-delay-mexican-mans-execution-100332728.html

sailor

07-07-2011, 12:39 PM

I disagree with executing foreigners, sets a bad precedent. On the other hand it's hard to see someone living here for 30+ years (since they were a toddler) as a foreign national, even though they technically are.

spoon

07-07-2011, 12:47 PM

Obama admin seeking to stop execution. Tx should give him the finger and fry this illegal

http://news.yahoo.com/white-house-seeks-delay-mexican-mans-execution-100332728.html

Sailor pretty much nailed it, just as the white house has, it's not a good idea here for hundreds of thousands (if not more) US citizens abroad. Sure we have a decent system in place comparatively to countries like Mexico, but they easily could amp up the mistreatment of our people put in prisons for lesser crimes, simple offenses or just plain bullshit.

If you fail to see the point of this, you fail to look beyond political ties. And frankly, that's not surprising in this case. The guy is a scumbag seemingly from afar, but it's not just about this solitary case.

spoon

07-07-2011, 12:53 PM

Also, it's a hold on the case not some permanent stay of execution. If he's guilty, he's done in time. This case ties to others in Texas (go fucking figure) where foreigners weren't given their full rights as per an agreement/treaty THE US signed and is a part of. Come on man, you can't be so thick. Hell, even Bush wasn't. The supreme court however looks at this solely from the US pov and ruled differently, but still right.

n 2005, President George W. Bush agreed with an International Court of Justice ruling that Leal and 50 other Mexican-born inmates nationwide should be entitled to new hearings in U.S. courts to determine if their consular rights were violated. The Supreme Court later overruled Bush, negating the decision.

WRESTLINGFAN

07-07-2011, 01:10 PM

Was a treaty raitified by the senate?

The scumbag got his day in court and was afforded all the rights just like American citizens have. He was given a trial by jury I know if I am going to a foreign country as primitive as some of their laws are, im going to follow them. When I was in the Marine corps before going to a foreign country we wre briefed on each countries customs laws etc and in many of those countries you are guilty before being presumed innocent. This lowlife came here illegally and brutally raped and butchered a teenager. He was given his trial, was found guilty and now must deal with the punishment. The system worked.

spoon

07-07-2011, 01:15 PM

Jujubees2

07-07-2011, 01:18 PM

ur system has another step that was seemingly skipped, so no

also, he's as good as done, texas just likes to do what it wants...especially when they don't get their way as in threatening to secede from the US when Obama won the election, the health care bill signing and so much more. In summation, fuck Texas.

Yeah, let's just give Texas back to the Mexicans but don't tell anyone. That way the illegals will think they made it into the US but they will still be in Mexico!

WRESTLINGFAN

07-07-2011, 03:03 PM

Yeah, let's just give Texas back to the Mexicans but don't tell anyone. That way the illegals will think they made it into the US but they will still be in Mexico!

Give them California too, the illegals managed to turn it into a 3rd world shithole

Jujubees2

07-07-2011, 03:05 PM

Give them California too, the illegals managed to turn it into a 3rd world shithole

Maybe the southern half of the state. Let's keep the northern part and give them Arizona.

WRESTLINGFAN

07-07-2011, 03:42 PM

One less illegal alien in the country. Leal was stuck full of poison tonight

TripleSkeet

07-07-2011, 05:15 PM

One less illegal alien in the country. Leal was stuck full of poison tonight

Im not usually a fan of Texas, but considering what the guy did, I gotta say Ive got no problem with their decision on this.

WRESTLINGFAN

07-07-2011, 05:41 PM

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_news/article/About-to-die-Leal-apologizes-for-killing-S-A-1456909.php

Leal ended by saying, “One more thing, Viva Mexico, Viva Mexico.”

Muerto Leal Muerto Leal

WRESTLINGFAN

07-07-2011, 05:52 PM

Oh no he didn't!!!!

http://www.latimes.com/news/la-pn-obama-social-security-20110707,0,7622947.story?track=rss

Dirtbag

07-07-2011, 05:56 PM

One less illegal alien in the country. Leal was stuck full of poison tonight

I'd rather look at it as one less murdering rapist.

TripleSkeet

07-07-2011, 05:59 PM

I'd rather look at it as one less murdering rapist.

This.

TripleSkeet

07-07-2011, 06:01 PM

Oh no he didn't!!!!

http://www.latimes.com/news/la-pn-obama-social-security-20110707,0,7622947.story?track=rss

He needs to learn the one thing you cant do in politics is fuck with the old people. They will bury him if he does.

spoon

07-07-2011, 06:02 PM

One less illegal alien in the country. Leal was stuck full of poison tonight

I'd rather look at it as one less murdering rapist.

it's funny how people slip and show their true colors

and ts, you do see the reasoning behind a simple stay of execution after all this time right?

the international implications versus a little more time?

WRESTLINGFAN

07-07-2011, 06:07 PM

If an American sells drugs in Indonesia Singapore or Saudi Arabia fuck em They should know those countries laws as archaeic as they are. Not every country is like here. Im not defending those practices of a death penalty or caning for selling drugs but thats how those countries operate. Watch up locked up abraod and maybe youll think twice of boozing it up too much and trying to rape a woman in Brazil or Peru

TripleSkeet

07-07-2011, 06:10 PM

it's funny how people slip and show their true colors

and ts, you do see the reasoning behind a simple stay of execution after all this time right?

the international implications versus a little more time?

I absolutely see the reasoning behind it, but I also dont have a problem with the governor killing him anyway. The last thing I wanted to see was this guy somehow getting a new trial.

WRESTLINGFAN

07-07-2011, 06:13 PM

spoon

07-07-2011, 06:46 PM

I absolutely see the reasoning behind it, but I also dont have a problem with the governor killing him anyway. The last thing I wanted to see was this guy somehow getting a new trial.

He wasn't getting a new trial as they were just checking in on how Texas isn't following the rules, and Mexico wouldn't risk the ill will by taking on this losing case in any way. It would simply mean due diligence and a few weeks more after 17 years for international favor by following rules we agreed to.

spoon

07-07-2011, 06:53 PM

Leal was afforded a trial by his peers. It wasnt like he was thrown to an angry mob and dismembered. This crime was committed 17 years ago. If you disagree with the death penalty and want capital punishment to be abolished thats one thing, however Leal admitted to the crime and was found guilty. Whats the problem?

That's just it, a few more weeks vs breaking our own policy? It has nothing to do with cap punishment, for me or the white house. The problem is you don't understand simple diplomacy and surely don't give two shits about it...especially bc it's Mexico. You fail to see the possible worldwide complications or again don't care. It's not for those US citizens who do something clearly wrong, but more for those wrongly arrested and more.

Syd

07-07-2011, 07:13 PM

That's just it, a few more weeks vs breaking our own policy? It has nothing to do with cap punishment, for me or the white house. The problem is you don't understand simple diplomacy and surely don't give two shits about it...especially bc it's Mexico. You fail to see the possible worldwide complications or again don't care. It's not for those US citizens who do something clearly wrong, but more for those wrongly arrested and more.

mexico is just full of illegal immigrants anyway, fuck 'em

TripleSkeet

07-07-2011, 08:05 PM

He wasn't getting a new trial as they were just checking in on how Texas isn't following the rules, and Mexico wouldn't risk the ill will by taking on this losing case in any way. It would simply mean due diligence and a few weeks more after 17 years for international favor by following rules we agreed to.

Oh see from what I read in the article it said they wanted to give him 6 months to have his lawyer convince them that had these rules been in place, he would not even have been convicted, let alone sentenced to death. Thats where it gets fuzzy for me. Im not a big fan of giving a guy like this a chance to somehow beat the system on a technicality.

WRESTLINGFAN

07-08-2011, 03:28 AM

mexico is just full of illegal immigrants anyway, fuck 'em

Not at all, Mexico actually enforces its immigration laws. An illegal alien in Mexico isnt being babysat by the Mexican taxpayers, they and their extended family arent allowed to become squatters and leech off the system

A.J.

07-08-2011, 03:46 AM

I'd rather look at it as one less murdering rapist.

:clap:

WRESTLINGFAN

07-08-2011, 06:22 AM

Jujubees2

07-08-2011, 06:23 AM

We are in a full recovery mode.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/07/08/news/economy/june_jobs_report_unemployment/index.htm?hpt=hp_t1

10MM OF The stimulus went to kill Americans in project gunrunner, Hows holder going to explain that

But I thought the Republicans said that we had to continue the Bush tax cuts because tax cuts create jobs?

Furtherman

07-08-2011, 06:35 AM

But I thought the Republicans said that we had to continue the Bush tax cuts because tax cuts create jobs?

I thought the adults were in charge and their mantra was jobs, jobs, jobs?

WRESTLINGFAN

07-08-2011, 06:39 AM

But I thought the Republicans said that we had to continue the Bush tax cuts because tax cuts create jobs?

Your man went along with them. Buck stops with him

WRESTLINGFAN

07-08-2011, 08:25 AM

Where are the rest? I proudly agree with Kucinich on this

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/2chambers/post/kucinich-to-offer-amendment-that-would-defund-us-operations-in-libya/2011/06/17/AGpLtAZH_blog.html

"This Administration brought our nation to war without Congressional approval or the support of the American people,” Kucinich said in a statement Friday. “When Congress demanded an explanation, the Administration tried to argue that bombing operations and support of other countries’ military operations in Libya, which cost almost $9.5 million per day, do not constitute war. In a direct challenge to Congress, the Administration is continuing the war despite its inability to provide a constitutional or legal justification for bypassing Congress

Syd

07-08-2011, 10:01 AM

Where are the rest? I proudly agree with Kucinich on this

Kucinich is a socialist, most of the rest of congress are hardcore capitalists flush with military campaign donations

WRESTLINGFAN

07-08-2011, 12:30 PM

Kucinich is a socialist, most of the rest of congress are hardcore capitalists flush with military campaign donations

Its not just the GOP in bed with the military industrial complex

foodcourtdruide

07-08-2011, 01:36 PM

Its not just the GOP in bed with the military industrial complex

Does anyone in this thread disagree with this statement?

Syd

07-08-2011, 03:06 PM

Its not just the GOP in bed with the military industrial complex

I wasn't insinuating otherwise, especially in the senate. Outside of ol' Bernie Sanders they're all fucking shills for the MIC.

spoon

07-08-2011, 08:07 PM

Does anyone in this thread disagree with this statement?

nope

WRESTLINGFAN

07-09-2011, 12:18 PM

The WH was worried about international incidents because Texas decided to put to death a rapist murdering illegal alien. However Mexican troops kill an American and it was determined they planted the gun on him

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1341797/Mexican-soldiers-charged-killing-U-S-man-planting-gun-prove-fired-first.html?ITO=1490

Time for our government to grow a set and tell Felipe Calderon to fuck off. He exports his unwanted here and complains about our immigration laws meanwhile if youre illegal in Mexico its hell on earth for you. Fucking hypocrites.

sailor

07-09-2011, 12:24 PM

We exported Jesse Ventura to them. Fair trade.

hanso

07-09-2011, 04:26 PM

I thought the adults were in charge and their mantra was jobs, jobs, jobs?

Mitch McTurtle and the OrangeMan have had nothing but kind words for our top dog. And have worked lockstep with their friends across the aisle.

Dude!

07-09-2011, 07:26 PM

Mitch McTurtle and the OrangeMan have had nothing but kind words for our top dog.

by top dog
are you referring
to president sambo?

hanso

07-10-2011, 06:36 PM

Obama ONLY created 240,000,000 jobs. Santorum said so.

WRESTLINGFAN

07-15-2011, 07:40 AM

You cant make this up. If it wasnt so pathetic it would be comical

http://news.yahoo.com/u-recognizes-rebels-libya-legitimate-government-125455845.html

WRESTLINGFAN

07-15-2011, 07:44 AM

Half a trillion Americans were in danger of losing their jobs

<iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/x8hMJVXt09E" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

zildjian361

07-15-2011, 03:24 PM

gas has already gone up in 45cents in the last month. it' a start.

Since I started driving again back in april it was $353 down to $344 back to $353, I got that kind of cash OWW :smoke::drunk: BUT NEVER BEHIND THE WHEEL:smile:

WRESTLINGFAN

07-21-2011, 11:18 AM

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/mrz072011dAPR20110720124517.jpg

spoon

07-21-2011, 04:31 PM

:wallbash:

spoon

07-21-2011, 04:31 PM

repeat

boobieman

07-22-2011, 12:46 AM

repeat

Rinse

PapaBear

07-22-2011, 12:55 AM

repeat

Rinse
boobieman obviously has no clue how proper hair care works. "Repeat" doesn't just mean "Rinse". You do the WHOLE THING over again! :wink:

boobieman

07-22-2011, 06:26 AM

boobieman obviously has no clue how proper hair care works. "Repeat" doesn't just mean "Rinse". You do the WHOLE THING over again! :wink:

Ah of course not HAVE YOU SEEN MY PIC

Sorry did not mean to be a ass on the thread..sorry

SSEYAYYAYEAAA

PapaBear

07-22-2011, 08:56 PM

Ah of course not HAVE YOU SEEN MY PIC
Of course I saw it! I really miss picking on Chris the Cop. :glurps:

WRESTLINGFAN

08-02-2011, 12:47 PM

Is this the breaking point for Obama supporters with him blowing this debt deal? The ones I know already said that they are sitting out 2012

Syd

08-02-2011, 02:33 PM

There are plenty still spinning him kowtowing completely as a "win" even though it's a giant shit sandwich

plus fucking trotting Giffords out to vote when it still isn't clear she's capable of independent thought yet :thumbup:

spoon

08-02-2011, 02:54 PM

Is this the breaking point for Obama supporters with him blowing this debt deal? The ones I know already said that they are sitting out 2012

it surely wasn't a win and didn't help my confidence in him at all

i think if anything, it opens the door for someone to attack and claim he fell in line on the Dem side

perhaps a true lib who will actually pass lib policy and have at least one testical

seeing as how the conservs get dirt on everyone of late, what do they have on this guy?

brettmojo

08-02-2011, 05:59 PM

Is this the breaking point for Obama supporters with him blowing this debt deal? The ones I know already said that they are sitting out 2012
At this point voting in any election is like being the abused wife that keeps going back to her abusive husband.

WRESTLINGFAN

08-03-2011, 08:56 AM

The pop isnt there. The excitement is gone. I dont think people will be knocking door to door to get people to vote for him again like in 2008.

brettmojo

08-03-2011, 11:06 AM

The pop isnt there. The excitement is gone. I dont think people will be knocking door to door to get people to vote for him again like in 2008.
You say that like it's just him.

It's government. Period. Apparently none of them have been paying attention to the last few months in the middle east.

spoon

08-03-2011, 12:14 PM

You say that like it's just him.

It's government. Period. Apparently none of them have been paying attention to the last few months in the middle east.

He does have a point though brett, Obama had extra going for him last election and it seemingly will be gone. I think he loses the most with all this, as he didn't live up to most of his platform, much less that of mid-line republicans. He's an AWFUL negotiator or we're back to my point that they have something AWFUL on him now and he's their bitch. I'm not fully convinced that latter isn't true bc that debt bill was a joke and the market is responding to it exactly as you'd expect. That lack of spending now may push this country into much more trouble, just what the powers that be want to bring down our way of life so their expenses get even lower.

WRESTLINGFAN

08-03-2011, 12:34 PM

I think the election for 2012 is going to have low turnout. The electorate is just worn out. I think Mitt is going to be the GOP candidate but there wont be big fanfare for him either. Im not one to say that the President is someone you can have a beer with, however Mitt is too polished almost fake and represents what people on both sides despise, the pretty boy White collar guy with perfect hair.

Obama is beatable at this point. While nothing is guaranteed hes losing steam in a lot of states like PA, Ohio and even Michigan.

boobieman

08-03-2011, 04:29 PM

This should be fun for a few days...

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2011/0803/What-were-two-Republicans-thinking-calling-Obama-tar-baby-and-boy

SSEYEYYAAAA

A.J.

08-04-2011, 03:43 AM

He's getting reelected. Compared to what crap the GOP fields, he'll be the lesser of two evils.

WRESTLINGFAN

08-04-2011, 04:50 AM

Anyone going ?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/04/obama-turns-50-birthday-parties_n_917856.html

WRESTLINGFAN

08-04-2011, 09:13 AM

Maybe not a good day to be throwing a 35K a plate b/day bash

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-04/yen-slumps-after-japan-intervenes-to-curb-rise-most-asian-stocks-advance.html

WRESTLINGFAN

08-05-2011, 06:55 AM

According to Nader

http://news.yahoo.com/nader-almost-100-percent-chance-democratic-primary-challenger-020811577.html

StanUpshaw

08-05-2011, 07:03 AM

Bro, I can sign up for an RSS feed on my own.

sailor

08-05-2011, 04:31 PM

USA debt rating downgraded for first time.

WRESTLINGFAN

08-05-2011, 05:22 PM

Still possible that Moodys and Fitch might downgrade

brettmojo

08-05-2011, 06:15 PM

USA debt rating downgraded for first time.
Boehner.

boobieman

08-06-2011, 05:37 AM

Still possible that Moodys and Fitch might downgrade

Well what do you expect Moodys is Moody and Fitch is a bitch.....

SSSEYYEYAYAAA

WRESTLINGFAN

08-06-2011, 09:09 AM

I hope Tom Hanks, Jay Z Rev Al, Rahm Emanuel and other A listers had a blast at the party

foodcourtdruide

08-06-2011, 09:17 AM

I hope Tom Hanks, Jay Z Rev Al, Rahm Emanuel and other A listers had a blast at the party

What does this have to do with anything? Do you think if Obama didn't have a birthday party the credit rating wouldn't have downgraded? How many Americans celebrate their 50th birthday party? Seriously WF, this is a pathetic comment.

cougarjake13

08-06-2011, 09:34 AM

I hope Tom Hanks, Jay Z Rev Al, Rahm Emanuel and other A listers had a blast at the party

how is thazt relevant

WRESTLINGFAN

08-06-2011, 09:43 AM

What does this have to do with anything? Do you think if Obama didn't have a birthday party the credit rating wouldn't have downgraded? How many Americans celebrate their 50th birthday party? Seriously WF, this is a pathetic comment.

How many Americans are chef executive of the government?

I guess you didnt know the dow has fallen 10% since 7/21

The same day the dow NASDAQ and S&P nosedived 4 and 5 % respectively

It shows that hes out of touch, he could have made a symbolic gesture and just have a small party. All we hear that hes thinking about the economy 24/7 and jobs. He does not give a fuck.

Now if that was dubya you bet your ass there would be special comments and nonstop coverage of unemployment lines etc.

Hes nothing but another scumbag politician with his let them eat cake attitude. If you cant see that than youre naive.

Oh wait, There were 117K jobs added last month. Wont be surprised if that is adjusted down and his team of experts are shocked about that adjustment

TripleSkeet

08-06-2011, 09:47 AM

How many Americans are chef executive of the government?

I guess you didnt know the dow has fallen 10% since 7/21

The same day the dow NASDAQ and S&P nosedived 4 and 5 % respectively

It shows that hes out of touch, he could have made a symbolic gesture and just have a small party. All we hear that hes thinking about the economy 24/7 and jobs. He does not give a fuck.

Now if that was dubya you bet your ass there would be special comments and nonstop coverage of unemployment lines etc.

Hes nothing but another scumbag politician with his let them eat cake attitude. If you cant see that than youre naive.

Oh wait, There were 117K jobs added last month. Wont be surprised if that is adjusted down and his team of experts are shocked about that adjustment

Youre Obama hate is really pathetic sometime. I dont give a fuck what your job is, you dont stop living your life because of it. He turned 50, he had a birthday party. Its what normal people do. Its a job. They take vacations, celebrate birthdays, childrens milestones, all that shit. Being president doesnt mean you have to give up your life for 4 years. Id be more worried if he DIDNT celebrate it. Dont be stupid.

WRESTLINGFAN

08-06-2011, 09:52 AM

Youre Obama hate is really pathetic sometime. I dont give a fuck what your job is, you dont stop living your life because of it. He turned 50, he had a birthday party. Its what normal people do. Its a job. They take vacations, celebrate birthdays, childrens milestones, all that shit. Being president doesnt mean you have to give up your life for 4 years. Id be more worried if he DIDNT celebrate it. Dont be stupid.

Come on TS. Ease up on using the word hate

His job affects 310MM people

When his fucking job was to save the economy reduce unemployment, get us out of unncessary wars, end the patriot act etc and he has failed at all of those goals I have every right to criticize him.

Its not the party its the principle. I didnt say he could not have a party, I think it was too over the top when the country is in a tailspin and his actions have not improved the overall economic and fiscal shape of the country

The debt deal was nothing but a shit sandwich. In the end all we have to show for it now is a AA+ Rating.

Do you really think he gives a fuck about you? Quit being so gullible

foodcourtdruide

08-06-2011, 10:32 AM

Its not the party its the principle. I didnt say he could not have a party, I think it was too over the top when the country is in a tailspin and his actions have not improved the overall economic and fiscal shape of the country

The debt deal was nothing but a shit sandwich. In the end all we have to show for it now is a AA+ Rating.

Do you really think he gives a fuck about you? Quit being so gullible

Did TS say he cares about him? You are completely nitpicking. If you want to argue that Obama doesn't take his job seriously, or takes too much vacation time, then compare him to other presidents.

If you can't make a comparison that validates what you were insinuating, then you are making a petty, irrelevant point.

foodcourtdruide

08-06-2011, 10:33 AM

It shows that hes out of touch, he could have made a symbolic gesture and just have a small party. All we hear that hes thinking about the economy 24/7 and jobs. He does not give a fuck.

How do you know any of this? This is such an odd comment. You sound like a fanboy talking about George Lucas.

A.J.

08-06-2011, 10:39 AM

WRESTLINGFAN

08-06-2011, 10:41 AM

How do you know any of this? This is such an odd comment. You sound like a fanboy talking about George Lucas.

How is it an odd comment. he has never talked about jobs, unemoloyment and him working tirelessly to improve that situation?

I dont know if youre defending his overall record. But a lot of people I know who voted for him in '08 have buyers remorse.

What do we have to look forward to in 2012 if he does lose? President Romney who is another big spender big government hack. The only change is that the deck chairs will be rearranged

brettmojo

08-06-2011, 02:28 PM

So, going by wrestlefest's logic...

-The president should have already fixed everything it took GWB and eight years of republicans driving this country off a cliff in just under three years.

-The president hasn't even tried.

-The debt deal is his fault.

-The president should have to cancel his birthday party as some sort of penance even while he tried to get congress to act on this debt deal for months AND NOW even while congress is on a MUCH DESERVED vacation after doing such a great job on the debt deal.

-The president has ignored the people, while wishing them to eat cake, EVEN THOUGH his wife is a health nut and he's been attempting to repeal the Bush "tax cuts" that 95% of this country wants to see happen only to have that twisted into "Obama raising taxes" which is bs.

STOP PLAYING THE BLAME GAME MR. OBAMA.

The ball the fucking right-wing has right now to shit on everything the president and the dems do after being resoundingly thrown out of office just a few years ago towards the end of GWB's reign is beyond belief. But, I guess it's only deservingly so since the hayseeds of this country voted them back into office anyway.

Bob Impact

08-06-2011, 02:58 PM

So, going by wrestlefest's logic...

-The president should have already fixed everything it took GWB and eight years of republicans driving this country off a cliff in just under three years.

-The president hasn't even tried.

-The debt deal is his fault.

-The president should have to cancel his birthday party as some sort of penance even while he tried to get congress to act on this debt deal for months AND NOW even while congress is on a MUCH DESERVED vacation after doing such a great job on the debt deal.

-The president has ignored the people, while wishing them to eat cake, EVEN THOUGH his wife is a health nut and he's been attempting to repeal the Bush "tax cuts" that 95% of this country wants to see happen only to have that twisted into "Obama raising taxes" which is bs.

STOP PLAYING THE BLAME GAME MR. OBAMA.

The ball the fucking right-wing has right now to shit on everything the president and the dems do after being resoundingly thrown out of office just a few years ago towards the end of GWB's reign is beyond belief. But, I guess it's only deservingly so since the hayseeds of this country voted them back into office anyway.

Wouldn't the same be said for the dems shitting on republicans after being "resoundingly thrown out of office" just 2 years ago?

Also, Obama's disconnect with "the American people" started with Healthcare, not debt.

That said,the biggest problem with the debt issue was the GOP acting like whiny, petulant children and taking the markets with them. Just sickening.

TripleSkeet

08-06-2011, 03:04 PM

WRESTLINGFAN

08-06-2011, 03:45 PM

So, going by wrestlefest's logic...

-The president should have already fixed everything it took GWB and eight years of republicans driving this country off a cliff in just under three years.

787 Billion was borrowed for a failed stimulus with 2 million net job losses. He had the WH and majority democrats in both houses for 2 years
-The president hasn't even tried.

Him and his adminostration are like scientists trying to come up with a new experiment only to blow the lab up over and over

-The debt deal is his fault.

I was no fan of the debt deal, He's a shitty negotiator

-The president should have to cancel his birthday party as some sort of penance even while he tried to get congress to act on this debt deal for months AND NOW even while congress is on a MUCH DESERVED vacation after doing such a great job on the debt deal.

It was also the dems kicking the can down the road Read what I said about the debt. Boehner and McConnell arent exactly statesmen. But since you want to bring up congress, he did not get authorization to start another war. But then again Boehner is useless in calling him out and defunding the war.

-The president has ignored the people, while wishing them to eat cake, EVEN THOUGH his wife is a health nut and he's been attempting to repeal the Bush "tax cuts" that 95% of this country wants to see happen only to have that twisted into "Obama raising taxes" which is bs.

Its a combination of ignorance, and ineptitude. He says he feels our pain but does he really? What good is a tax cut when commodities, food energy etc are rising and the dollar is losing valueSTOP PLAYING THE BLAME GAME MR. OBAMA.

The ball the fucking right-wing has right now to shit on everything the president and the dems do after being resoundingly thrown out of office just a few years ago towards the end of GWB's reign is beyond belief. But, I guess it's only deservingly so since the hayseeds of this country voted them back into office anyway.

Signing some draconian health care bill which exempts his union buddies and will not lower cost? Dodd Frank, another monstrosity in which we still dont know everything about it as its another 2500 page piece of shit. Dont forget his crony capitalism with Goldman Sachs and GE.

I home someone does primary him as Bernie Sanders said that it would be a good thing

What the fuck does the first lady have to do with your comments we didnt elect her

WRESTLINGFAN

08-06-2011, 03:55 PM

Hes got you pretty much pegged here WF.

I dont think Obama "cares" about me. But I do know he has tried to do some things I would love to see (namely cut those tax breaks for the rich) only to see them shot down by Republicans that dont give 2 fucks about me or the people in my tax bracket.

My only point is, theres no rule that says when you become President, your life become work 24 hours a day for 4 years. Hes got the right to celebrate his birthday however he wants too. When people criticize him for petty shit like that, it just takes credibility away from there criticisms of his work.

It was Obama who agreed to the tax cuts for 2 years. How can this man be a leader when he has no negotiating skills. Want to raise revenue? fine but 200k is not fucking rich

Obama ran on the platform that he was going to change Washington Instead him and congress as usual waited for the last minute. I think he republicans arent any better IE Boehner and McConnell.

If economic times were better and the country wasnt bogged down on 3 fronts, Then have a huge gala. If this were 1997 no one would give a fuck that the president is having a huge bash.

Obama got way in over his head. I didnt expect the economy to have full employment in 6 months then again I didnt envision him continuing the patriot act, starting another war and
continuing a lot of Bush policies.

He had 2 years with clear majorities in both houses, if anything people who voted for him should be even more pissed that he really wasnt a progressive afterall

twiggy148

08-06-2011, 04:57 PM

I dont know if he will end up being the worst but he is the most inexperienced, arrogant, one-sided dick fuck we've ever had in the white house.:furious:

TripleSkeet

08-07-2011, 09:49 AM

It was Obama who agreed to the tax cuts for 2 years. How can this man be a leader when he has no negotiating skills. Want to raise revenue? fine but 200k is not fucking rich

Obama ran on the platform that he was going to change Washington Instead him and congress as usual waited for the last minute. I think he republicans arent any better IE Boehner and McConnell.

If economic times were better and the country wasnt bogged down on 3 fronts, Then have a huge gala. If this were 1997 no one would give a fuck that the president is having a huge bash.

Obama got way in over his head. I didnt expect the economy to have full employment in 6 months then again I didnt envision him continuing the patriot act, starting another war and
continuing a lot of Bush policies.

He had 2 years with clear majorities in both houses, if anything people who voted for him should be even more pissed that he really wasnt a progressive afterall

Wasnt he crucified for not comprimising enough with the Republicans? I dont understand, all the shit you criticize him for are things that Republicans started and fight for. The Patriot Act. The Wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. The tax breaks. These are all points your party stands behind and refuses to change. They are the fucking problem.

Again I dont understand how you can call the someone whose earnings are part of only the top 5% of the country "middle class". Middle class should be the majority of the country. How exactly do you do your breakdown???

- Top 1% = Rich
- Next 4% = Middle class
- Next 95% = Poor

Is that the math youre using?
I like how the shlub making $60k a year is irresponsible with his money for wanting to take his family on an expensive vacation but the guy making $250k a year is just some unlucky guy who has higher bills to pay. Dont raise his taxes, he might have to downgrade from his BMW 5 series to a Lexus.

WRESTLINGFAN

08-07-2011, 10:16 AM

I've already said that I have no use for Boehner and the other establishment GOP. They want big government as long as it suits their needs. I want the patriot act killed. I am sick of the nation building and insane pentagon budget. It sounds like you're just grouping me in with the Boehners McCAins etc when in fact I'm not.

Again I have no problem with raising revenues and killing some loopholes but an arbitrary number of 200K isn't rich. Raise someone like Jeters rate to 39.6% Count me in.

We are spending about 10 billion a month on Afghanistan alone. Libya is already over a billion dollars. That money could have gone into fixing infrastructure here.

foodcourtdruide

08-07-2011, 11:04 AM

WRESTLINGFAN

08-07-2011, 12:31 PM

I really agree with everything you say here WF. I don't think 200k is rich, however, the disparity between the super rich and middle class has become so great, that percentage wise, 200k can be considered rich.

The mega rich have done quite well under both dubyas and Obamas presidencies. There's no arguing about that.
I just think setting the bar at 200k is very low especially in the northeast and parts of California like SF

I think this would bring in a ton of revenue.

250k-1mm leave at 35%
1mm 39.6%
For every million over raise it a half percent up to 10mm

WRESTLINGFAN

08-07-2011, 03:12 PM

tomorrows opening is going to be bloody

Dow futures down more than 250. S&P and NASDAQ also both down big

foodcourtdruide

08-07-2011, 03:17 PM

tomorrows opening is going to be bloody

Dow futures down more than 250. S&P and NASDAQ also both down big

I have a feeling walking around wall street tomorrow will feel a lot like 2 years ago.

WRESTLINGFAN

08-07-2011, 03:31 PM

people who shorted in the middle of July will be the only ones happy. Just saw gold is up almost $40 but oil is down.

Its going to be interesting how the bond market trades tomorrow

underdog

08-07-2011, 03:36 PM

I have a feeling walking around wall street tomorrow will feel a lot like 2 years ago.

I off tomorrow. I'm going to go walk around Wall Street.

WRESTLINGFAN

08-07-2011, 03:42 PM

I off tomorrow. I'm going to go walk around Wall Street.

Stay outta the way of traders jumping out of windows.

Seriously though, Its not just the downgrade, Europe is also looking shaky as Portugal, Spain and Italy could be the next Greece

WRESTLINGFAN

08-07-2011, 03:48 PM

Its just bad all around. 30 Men were killed yesterday from seal team 6, (the ones who killed Bin Laden )theres about 300 men in team 6, having one KIA is bad but 10% of the unit. Man that is just awful

foodcourtdruide

08-07-2011, 04:38 PM

I off tomorrow. I'm going to go walk around Wall Street.

Food around there sucks, unless you're rich and can afford a $50 lunch at a steak house.

You can walk down to the ass-end of battery park if you want shake shack. Also, there's a Five Guys on Fulton. Why am I giving you lunch advise?

underdog

08-07-2011, 04:59 PM

Food around there sucks, unless you're rich and can afford a $50 lunch at a steak house.

You can walk down to the ass-end of battery park if you want shake shack. Also, there's a Five Guys on Fulton. Why am I giving you lunch advise?

I have no idea.

StanUpshaw

08-07-2011, 05:00 PM

I off tomorrow. I'm going to go walk around Wall Street.

Make sure you do some WACKY stuff behind the CNBC reporter!

underdog

08-07-2011, 05:04 PM

Make sure you do some WACKY stuff behind the CNBC reporter!

Like report real news? ZING!

zildjian361

08-07-2011, 05:48 PM

gas has already gone up in 45cents in the last month. it' a start.

Fuck it I'm pushing a 97 RED Ford Escort wagon with new tinted windows ya smell me:smoke::drunk:

furie

08-07-2011, 05:57 PM

i think the downgrade will kill obama's re-election chances.

Dirtbag

08-07-2011, 06:45 PM

i think the downgrade will kill obama's re-election chances.

He will get re-elected for the same reason Bush did in 2004. As shitty as things are, the opposition has nothing better to offer.

Recyclerz

08-07-2011, 08:09 PM

tomorrows opening is going to be bloody

Dow futures down more than 250. S&P and NASDAQ also both down big

At midnight here (noon or 1:00PM there) Japan's Nikkei is down 2% and Hong Kong's market is down a bigger 4%. I can understand China freaking out a bit since they have so many $ reserves but unless there is more bad news from Europe on Monday I expect the response to be muted by the time the markets open in NY. In the short term there really isn't an acceptable alternative to US Treasuries of any size so there isn't anywhere else to stampede towards.

Check this prediction in about ten hours and remember, its worth exactly what you paid for it.

:wink:

Syd

08-08-2011, 06:01 AM

and you're right, the market pretty much ignored S&P and everyone is heading for cash, bonds and gold right now.

WRESTLINGFAN

08-08-2011, 06:45 AM

Fannie and Freddie were just downgraded by S&P

Dow down 3%

WRESTLINGFAN

08-08-2011, 09:45 AM

Syd

08-08-2011, 10:59 AM

as the day comes to a close, the GOP has sent us successfully into another recession

thanks conservatives!

Bob Impact

08-08-2011, 12:45 PM

as the day comes to a close, the GOP has sent us successfully into another recession

thanks conservatives!

This is precisely the problem with this country.

Syd

08-08-2011, 02:49 PM

This is precisely the problem with this country.

Obama was buying up all the bullshit that S&P was serving saying we need even more concessions to S&P despite the market quite obviously seeing the forest from the trees and that there's so little growth going on in the economy. Everyone's buying up debt but there's fuck all to do with helping consumers actually begin buying again.

Bob Impact

08-08-2011, 03:47 PM

Obama was buying up all the bullshit that S&P was serving saying we need even more concessions to S&P despite the market quite obviously seeing the forest from the trees and that there's so little growth going on in the economy. Everyone's buying up debt but there's fuck all to do with helping consumers actually begin buying again.

You seem very confused, please compose yourself and try these posts again.

Syd

08-08-2011, 05:30 PM

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/interest-rates/Pages/TextView.aspx?data=yield

Date 1 mo 3 mo 6 mo 1 yr 2 yr 3 yr 5 yr 7 yr 10 yr 20 yr 30 yr
08/01/11 0.13 0.10 0.16 0.22 0.38 0.55 1.32 2.05 2.77 3.72 4.07
08/02/11 0.05 0.06 0.13 0.17 0.33 0.50 1.23 1.94 2.66 3.59 3.93
08/03/11 0.01 0.02 0.08 0.16 0.33 0.52 1.25 1.94 2.64 3.55 3.89
08/04/11 0.01 0.02 0.05 0.12 0.27 0.44 1.12 1.78 2.47 3.37 3.70
08/05/11 0.01 0.01 0.05 0.11 0.28 0.49 1.23 1.91 2.58 3.49 3.82
08/08/11 0.02 0.05 0.07 0.12 0.27 0.45 1.11 1.75 2.40 3.31 3.68

+

http://www.google.com/finance

Dow Jones
10,809.85 -634.76 (-5.55%)

S&P 500
1,119.46 -79.92 (-6.66%)

Nasdaq
2,357.69 -174.72 (-6.90%)

=

debt isn't of particular concern, demand is; austerity measures hinder/reduce demand

which means fiscally conservative approaches to the economy aren't currently working and taxes must be raised or another major stimulus bill must be created since there's an overwhelming number of investors, corporations, hedge funds and such hoarding money

WRESTLINGFAN

08-08-2011, 05:34 PM

Asian mkts already down 5%

Dow futures down about 150

Recyclerz

08-08-2011, 05:54 PM

At midnight here (noon or 1:00PM there) Japan's Nikkei is down 2% and Hong Kong's market is down a bigger 4%. I can understand China freaking out a bit since they have so many $ reserves but unless there is more bad news from Europe on Monday I expect the response to be muted by the time the markets open in NY. In the short term there really isn't an acceptable alternative to US Treasuries of any size so there isn't anywhere else to stampede towards.

Check this prediction in about ten hours and remember, its worth exactly what you paid for it.

:wink:

Oops.

spoon

08-08-2011, 08:35 PM

Wouldn't the same be said for the dems shitting on republicans after being "resoundingly thrown out of office" just 2 years ago?

Also, Obama's disconnect with "the American people" started with Healthcare, not debt.

That said,the biggest problem with the debt issue was the GOP acting like whiny, petulant children and taking the markets with them. Just sickening.

Obama also ran on changing our healthcare and did that, only not enough. The public option was and is needed. You call the first disconnect the major issue he ran and was elected on. In fact, even in the height of the right wing attack and bastardization of his plan (death squads, socialism & more) most of the public wanted HC revamped. Once the public option went away the plan lost it's appeal for even the left and hence it's failure in both directions for both parties in different ways.

The debt issues clearly wasn't a compromise. How you can attack this problem in only one direction baffles me, and it's pathetic that we continue to blame taxes as the reason jobs aren't being created as business's contribute less than ever right now, not to mention our revs from taxes are their lowest in almost 60 years. If anything has helped kill jobs the cost of HC for employees can't be ignored. I've read many times over that the cost of employees has actually dropped in terms of pay/salary of late (what neo-cons want), but hiring is light bc the cost of HC has risen so much it offsets this gain and more. Then add in that most are hoarding their money and not putting it back into the company at this point and you have a major issue.

spoon

08-08-2011, 08:42 PM

It was Obama who agreed to the tax cuts for 2 years. How can this man be a leader when he has no negotiating skills. Want to raise revenue? fine but 200k is not fucking rich

Obama ran on the platform that he was going to change Washington Instead him and congress as usual waited for the last minute. I think he republicans arent any better IE Boehner and McConnell.

If economic times were better and the country wasnt bogged down on 3 fronts, Then have a huge gala. If this were 1997 no one would give a fuck that the president is having a huge bash.

Obama got way in over his head. I didnt expect the economy to have full employment in 6 months then again I didnt envision him continuing the patriot act, starting another war and
continuing a lot of Bush policies.

He had 2 years with clear majorities in both houses, if anything people who voted for him should be even more pissed that he really wasnt a progressive afterall

Libya simply ISN'T "another war". I love this tact you put out there all day in an attempt to lump Obama into some notion he's a war monger and ignores congress. I'm sorry, he/we/the US intervened in a very appropriate way to stop a massacre. Also, the party is a complete non-issue so stop parroting derisive Hannity/Limbaugh/Fox bullshit when it's clearly not a factor in any of this.

spoon

08-08-2011, 08:45 PM

I dont know if he will end up being the worst but he is the most inexperienced, arrogant, one-sided dick fuck we've ever had in the white house.:furious:

"...one-sided dick fuck"?

How so twiggy? I dare you to attempt to turn this shit pile into any semblance of a factual post.

spoon

08-08-2011, 08:51 PM

Wasnt he crucified for not comprimising enough with the Republicans? I dont understand, all the shit you criticize him for are things that Republicans started and fight for. The Patriot Act. The Wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. The tax breaks. These are all points your party stands behind and refuses to change. They are the fucking problem.

Again I dont understand how you can call the someone whose earnings are part of only the top 5% of the country "middle class". Middle class should be the majority of the country. How exactly do you do your breakdown???

- Top 1% = Rich
- Next 4% = Middle class
- Next 95% = Poor

Is that the math youre using?
I like how the shlub making $60k a year is irresponsible with his money for wanting to take his family on an expensive vacation but the guy making $250k a year is just some unlucky guy who has higher bills to pay. Dont raise his taxes, he might have to downgrade from his BMW 5 series to a Lexus.

So by this logic TS if we fall into a depression and 95% of the country make nothing someone who now makes 38,000 with no insurance is rich right? My point is that 200k is not rich bc others make less, rich is excessive wealth and assets that 200k income families DO NOT have. They may live with a few more toys, a slightly better car and slightly bigger home but surely are not rich. By your standards listed above I guess our poor are considered FILTHY RICH by poor Egyptians?

StanUpshaw

08-08-2011, 09:06 PM

Why does anyone give the slightest fuck about terms and labels are being used?

TripleSkeet

08-08-2011, 09:08 PM

So by this logic TS if we fall into a depression and 95% of the country make nothing someone who now makes 38,000 with no insurance is rich right? My point is that 200k is not rich bc others make less, rich is excessive wealth and assets that 200k income families DO NOT have. They may live with a few more toys, a slightly better car and slightly bigger home but surely are not rich. By your standards listed above I guess our poor are considered FILTHY RICH by poor Egyptians?

Those egyptians I consider mega rich...or wealthy.

If $38,000 a year is more then the majority of the country is making, then yes, your rich. Just like in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king.

Dude, I think you said you live in NYC, right? just about EVERYWHERE else in this country, if you make that kind of money, you can afford alot more then just a "slightly better" car or a "slightly bigger" home. If you lived in Indiana, or Kansas, or Colorado you could live like a king on that money. If you lived in Philly or South Jersey you could live like a King. In NYC I could see it not meaning as much, but the country doesnt revolve around the people of NY.

Now does that mean I dont think that more Americans deserve better pay? Of course not. I get what youre saying. But realistically, thats not happening. These fucking corporations dont even want to pay Americans the lower pay scale they are willing to settle for. Instead they just outsource all their shit. Up here Verizon is taking a beating from the CWA who is on strike because Verizon is trying to cut their healthcare, benefits and pensions while being hugely profitable and outsourcing jobs to Mexico and the Phillipines.

If the country wants to eventually get out of debt and get jobs back in this country, the only way they are going to be able to do it is to force these companies to stop outsourcing and keep their jobs here. I dont even know how they can do it, whether it be HUGE tax penalties or what. But its the only way things are ever going to really get better. These jackals make all this money from Americans and dump it into other countries for a higher profit margin. And theres no politician in sight thats got the balls to try and fight the big corporations and their billions of dollars.

spoon

08-08-2011, 09:29 PM

Those egyptians I consider mega rich...or wealthy.

If $38,000 a year is more then the majority of the country is making, then yes, your rich. Just like in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king.

Dude, I think you said you live in NYC, right? just about EVERYWHERE else in this country, if you make that kind of money, you can afford alot more then just a "slightly better" car or a "slightly bigger" home. If you lived in Indiana, or Kansas, or Colorado you could live like a king on that money. If you lived in Philly or South Jersey you could live like a King. In NYC I could see it not meaning as much, but the country doesnt revolve around the people of NY.

Now does that mean I dont think that more Americans deserve better pay? Of course not. I get what youre saying. But realistically, thats not happening. These fucking corporations dont even want to pay Americans the lower pay scale they are willing to settle for. Instead they just outsource all their shit. Up here Verizon is taking a beating from the CWA who is on strike because Verizon is trying to cut their healthcare, benefits and pensions while being hugely profitable and outsourcing jobs to Mexico and the Phillipines.

If the country wants to eventually get out of debt and get jobs back in this country, the only way they are going to be able to do it is to force these companies to stop outsourcing and keep their jobs here. I dont even know how they can do it, whether it be HUGE tax penalties or what. But its the only way things are ever going to really get better. These jackals make all this money from Americans and dump it into other countries for a higher profit margin. And theres no politician in sight thats got the balls to try and fight the big corporations and their billions of dollars.

I find it odd how often where I live gets used against me in ways like you did for now reason at all. Even in Philly or bumfuck Alabama 200k is not rich, it's just better off. Your point on the one eyed man being king is off. Sure he's once again better off, but not rich in sight lacking depth and more. I don't think people understand the term rich any longer.

Misti, I only care bc all of a sudden this country is turning on those fighting for the same cause as if they are the ruling/elite class bc they make more money at the time and are anything but wealthy or rich. I'm surely not looking for anyone to allow the claim of poverty or even close, but rich, come on!

StanUpshaw

08-08-2011, 09:42 PM

Ah, right, I forgot. People don't care about the actual economics, just what side of the class warfare rhetoric they're rooting for.

TripleSkeet

08-08-2011, 10:25 PM

I find it odd how often where I live gets used against me in ways like you did for now reason at all. Even in Philly or bumfuck Alabama 200k is not rich, it's just better off. Your point on the one eyed man being king is off. Sure he's once again better off, but not rich in sight lacking depth and more. I don't think people understand the term rich any longer.

Misti, I only care bc all of a sudden this country is turning on those fighting for the same cause as if they are the ruling/elite class bc they make more money at the time and are anything but wealthy or rich. I'm surely not looking for anyone to allow the claim of poverty or even close, but rich, come on!

Im not using it against you, but $200,000 in NYC is not worth what $200,000 is in most parts of the country. What kind of house can you get in NYC for $200k? Im guessing nothing really great. In Indiana you can get a HUGE single family home on a lake for that much. Its just simple cost of living differences.

I guess maybe I look at it too simply. To me it goes like this:

Poor: homeless people, people that cant pay their bills, are losing their house, having their car repossessed, are forced to live with their parents. People that dont make enough money to live on their own.

Middle class: Live in a decent house. Drive affordable cars like Fords, Hondas and such. Can pay their bills as long as they dont get too extravagant. Getting by ok without really struggling.

Rich: People that have no problem paying their bills. Big beautiful home, Cars like BMW, Porsche, Mercedes, etc. Maybe a nice fishing boat. Pretty much can buy things at will that normal people cant. While still able to put money away if they want.

Wealthy: HUGE mansions. Ferraris, yachts, vacations all over the world. 5 star hotels. Money they can literally burn.

Now obviously the first 3 can change depending on what kind of debt they accumulate, but I just judge this by what I find reasonable. If you have trouble paying your car insurance because you own 10 cars, that doesnt drop you to poor. Utility bills, insurance, cable tv, that shit is pretty close to the same for everyone.

All I know is at $200k a year, I would NEVER worry about bills again. I would be able to have my house paid off in no time, Id be completely out of debt in like 5-8 years, and I could tell my wife she could quit her job. All while still being able to take vacations, put money away for my kids college, save for retirement and upgrade my car. To me, thats rich. And South Jersey isnt exactly the lowest cost of living around. I guess to me, rich is having enough money for peace of mind.

spoon

08-08-2011, 10:33 PM

Ah, right, I forgot. People don't care about the actual economics, just what side of the class warfare rhetoric they're rooting for.

So you're point is what? 200k wage earners are the problem? And having an overall middle class closer to that income versus closer to poverty line is a bad thing? I'm sorry, it just seems like once again people are fighting against their own best interest in every fight I see bt the parties right now.

WRESTLINGFAN

08-09-2011, 06:31 AM

Libya simply ISN'T "another war". I love this tact you put out there all day in an attempt to lump Obama into some notion he's a war monger and ignores congress. I'm sorry, he/we/the US intervened in a very appropriate way to stop a massacre. Also, the party is a complete non-issue so stop parroting derisive Hannity/Limbaugh/Fox bullshit when it's clearly not a factor in any of this.

To hell with Hannity and Rush. They are just entertainers with radioshows

Enough of this intervention bullshit. Libya is not a threat to our national security. To me what youre saying that its ok to intervene as long as Obama is in office. Maybe im reading into it too much.

why arent we stopping all the other massacres going on? Why didnt Obama use the proper procedures and have congress authorize use of force. Or go back to congress after 90 days. This shit that its a NATO operation is skirting the issue. Obama is clearly violating the warpowers act. Members of his own party like Kucinich filed a lawsuit against our intervention

Furtherman

08-09-2011, 06:40 AM

why arent we stopping all the other massacres going on?

Why didn't we oust all the other dictators in the world?

Answer: our National interests weren't involved.

We'd be doing the same in Lybia no matter who was in charge.

Syd

08-09-2011, 06:41 AM

Libya only happened because people were wondering what NATO was for nowadays, so, they found somewhere to go carpet bomb. Same shit that happened with Serbia and elsewhere.

WRESTLINGFAN

08-09-2011, 06:45 AM

Why didn't we oust all the other dictators in the world?

Answer: our National interests weren't involved.

We'd be doing the same in Lybia no matter who was in charge.

What national interests do we have in Libya?

We are basically doing the UN's bidding.

Furtherman

08-09-2011, 06:52 AM

What national interests do we have in Libya?

We are basically doing the UN's bidding.

Post-war reconstruction.

WRESTLINGFAN

08-09-2011, 07:18 AM

Whatever we think about Khadafy is not in our interest and not a threat to our security. I am not in favor of the war powers act but a president can not unilaterally attack another country. There was no vote in congress and the 90 day window came and went.

Libya is an internal matter. Have we learned anything? We propped up a dictator in Egypt 70 billion dolllars later hes gone.

Furtherman

08-09-2011, 07:31 AM

Have we learned anything?

No.

WRESTLINGFAN

08-09-2011, 10:41 AM

Helicopter Ben is going to keep rates near zero and as a result the mkt has lost most of its triple digit gains

Whats next? QE3. The fed buying up more treasurys?

The fed really needs to be audited

Syd

08-09-2011, 11:05 AM

The best thing they can do now is more QE but with a focus on increasing monetary inflation to help offset consumer debts. Or, for the government to raise taxes to induce spending. Best yet, a massive stimulus bill to repair all the busted ass infrastructure in the US to get people back to work to get consumer spending up. Right now, people are saving too much money in an economy based on consumerism and we're seeing the result of it now.

None of these will happen as the GOP controls the government and all of these policies are largely anti-private business.

WRESTLINGFAN

08-09-2011, 12:01 PM

All mkts up big time. Dow up 400+

spoon

08-09-2011, 12:25 PM

spoon

08-09-2011, 12:26 PM

Helicopter Ben is going to keep rates near zero and as a result the mkt has lost most of its triple digit gains

Whats next? QE3. The fed buying up more treasurys?

The fed really needs to be audited

All mkts up big time. Dow up 400+

Sooooo, you were _ _ _ _ _ ?

WRESTLINGFAN

08-09-2011, 12:38 PM

Sooooo, you were _Wrong ?

Ok the mkts were up today, You got me on that.

Remember when the mkts were down 777 in sept 08, the next day they were up triple digits.

Theres an index called the volatility index and that continues to point up. Dont be surprised if there are wild swings in the coming days/months

I still think the fed needs to be audited . Even Barney Frank agrees.

The fed is neither federal or has any reserves

spoon

08-09-2011, 12:52 PM

Ok the mkts were up today, You got me on that.

Remember when the mkts were down 777 in sept 08, the next day they were up triple digits.

Theres an index called the volatility index and that continues to point up. Dont be surprised if there are wild swings in the coming days/months

I still think the fed needs to be audited . Even Barney Frank agrees.

The fed is neither federal or has any reserves

Surprised? Come on man, only a fool would be surprised by this as we're going to be on a rollercoaster for a long time. The powers that be will make millions on this volatility, and I'm not convinced this isn't all the desired effect right now. The S & P decision is comical to say the least, looking at it's past and it's role in how we got here, and I'm sure haven't been expecting this for a while.