Obama - Worst President Ever?

[Syd]

It does cut defense, but it also cuts the post office. Looks like if it gets passed it will be a 5 day delivery syatem. The recipient class who doesnt have direct deposit will be pissed

Is that because they get a welfare check every week, or are welfare checks only delivered o Saturdays, or because the mailman reminds them they need to get a TV dinner every day a week?

[JohnGacysCrawlSpace]

30,000 drones in American skies, civil liberties in jeopardy

A bill passed last week allocating more than $63 billion to the Federal Aviation Administration would increase the existence of drones in civilian airspace across America and is expected to be signed into law by President Barack Obama...

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/319564

[WRESTLINGFAN]

That $40 phony payroll tax cut wont do much as gas will be $5 by this summer

[hanso]

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[WRESTLINGFAN]

Guess Obamas pledge to close GITMO wont come thru


http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/01/usa-guantanamo-soccer-idUSL2E8E1CC520120301


Im not opposed to the field but put the men to work they can get rakes and shovels to level off an area. If they wanna play soccer let them earn their keep

[ozzie]

Not trolling... serious questions.


Who owns the oil and natural gas in the Gulf of Mexico?

Is any of it "international waters"? And if so, then who owns it?


I know that Bush I signed an executive ban limiting "off shore drilling" in 1990.

Then, after oil hit $145/barrell in July '08 (election year), Bush II lifted the ban, and oil prices plummeted, almost immediately. (Coincidence? Or direct result?)

Obama has been criticized for putting bans back in place, and for delaying the keystone pipeline, so he's being directly blamed now for the current price of oil and gasoline (even though it's no where near $145/b yet).

Everyone seems to assume that it's a given that oil and gas prices are just going to keep rising.

But, this being another election year, there's an outside chance that Obama could do the same as Bush, and hope for the same result.

But my questions remain. Basically, what's in it for the United States? (By "it", I mean allowing off shore drilling and for TransCanada to start building their pipeline)

I mean, besides the obvious, hopefully lower oil and gas prices by increased supply.

Are we in a position to sell the oil and gas from the gulf?

Do we own those areas of the gulf? Do the oil companies pay to "lease" it?

Once the pipeline is built, and the construction jobs go away, do they continue to lease the land used? Is it purchased?

Otherwise, why do we really care how canada gets their oil to the refineries? What's in it for us?

[A.J.]

I think U.S. territorial waters extend 12 miles out to sea. I seem to remember that from the BP platform leak that affected Louisiana.

[StanUpshaw]

The BP rig was within the US exclusive economic zone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_economic_zone), the waters extending 200 miles offshore.

It was in the Mississippi Canyon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississippi_Canyon) region, managed by the US Minerals Management Service, who leases out blocks for oil and gas exploration.

[ozzie]

I hate being this ignorant about it, especially living this close to the gulf and all.

So, does the U.S. then OWN the mineral rights? (Do we own the oil and gas?)

Does BP or whomever BUY or pay for what they pull up?

Or are we just charge for the lease?



And, again, what's in it for us to allow a canadian company to build a pipeline that runs across US soil?

And why are there refineries suing TransCanada?

I know the republicans are pressing Obama to just sign the damn thing and allow it to get started, but from the little I know, I kinda side with the Prez on demanding that this thing is thoroughly researched.

There seems to be more to it than just "Let them build the damn thing so that our gas prices will go down!"

For one... I'm just not convinced that there is a direct, immediate, guaranteed cause and affect.

Sure, if/when the supply goes up, the market will adjust the price of oil.

But with the pipeline thing... the fucking oil is there already. It's now up to them to figure out how to get it to the refineries.

They've already said that without the keystone xl pipeline, they'd just pipe it or ship it over to Asia. You still increase the world supply, and therefore lower the price of oil.

I just don't see where Obama is to blame for rising gas/oil prices.

In the same way, I wasn't blaming Bush in 2008 either.

It's easy to assume or hope that US oil companies are legit and honest... but fuck that.

I have ZERO confidence that if the price they pay per barrell goes down because they're able to get it to the refineries via a pipeline rather than by tanker, that they would automatically pass the savings on to US consumers.

But I guess that's the hope anyway.

[Jujubees2]

Think of it this way. The oil companies are making record profits with gas at almost $4,00 a gallon. If the price of crude came down, why would the oil companies lower the price? They are not in business to help the American consumer, they are in business to make as much money as possible.

Why the Keystone pipeline would boost pump prices (http://bottomline.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/27/10519685-why-the-keystone-pipeline-would-boost-pump-prices)

Keystone Pipeline Brings Pain at Pump, Few Jobs: Jonathan Alter (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-02/keystone-pipe-brings-pain-at-pump-few-jobs-commentary-by-jonathan-alter.html)

[StanUpshaw]

I hate being this ignorant about it, especially living this close to the gulf and all.

So, does the U.S. then OWN the mineral rights? (Do we own the oil and gas?)

Does BP or whomever BUY or pay for what they pull up?

Or are we just charge for the lease?

What do I look like, Halliburton? Read this: http://www.boemre.gov/offshore/GOMESARevenueSharing.htm

And, again, what's in it for us to allow a canadian company to build a pipeline that runs across US soil?
Construction jobs, refinery jobs. Obama spews rhetoric about getting Americans back to work, but he puts the brakes on this? Fuck him.

On the other hand, if they can't build the pipeline without hundreds of eminent domain thefts, fuck them.

As far as gas prices, I don't think it matters all that much where the oil goes to get refined. Increases in supply, wherever on the globe they occur, will help prices.

And why are there refineries suing TransCanada?
"In September 2009, independent refiner CVR sued TransCanada for Keystone Pipeline tolls seeking $250 million damage compensation or release from transportation agreements. CVR alleged that the final tolls for the Canadian segment of the pipeline were 146% higher than initially presented, while the tolls for the US segment were 92% higher. In April 2010, three smaller refineries sued TransCanada to break Keystone transportation contracts, saying the new pipeline has been beset with cost overruns."

I know the republicans are pressing Obama to just sign the damn thing and allow it to get started, but from the little I know, I kinda side with the Prez on demanding that this thing is thoroughly researched.

There seems to be more to it than just "Let them build the damn thing so that our gas prices will go down!"

For one... I'm just not convinced that there is a direct, immediate, guaranteed cause and affect.

Sure, if/when the supply goes up, the market will adjust the price of oil.

But with the pipeline thing... the fucking oil is there already. It's now up to them to figure out how to get it to the refineries.

They've already said that without the keystone xl pipeline, they'd just pipe it or ship it over to Asia. You still increase the world supply, and therefore lower the price of oil.

I just don't see where Obama is to blame for rising gas/oil prices.

In the same way, I wasn't blaming Bush in 2008 either.

It's easy to assume or hope that US oil companies are legit and honest... but fuck that.

I have ZERO confidence that if the price they pay per barrell goes down because they're able to get it to the refineries via a pipeline rather than by tanker, that they would automatically pass the savings on to US consumers.

But I guess that's the hope anyway.

Yeah, pretty much. A tiny supply increase won't have much impact on oil price. Certainly not enough to compensate for the tanking USD. Commodities are all going to rise as long as the fed believes we can print our way to prosperity.

[Crispy123]

I think U.S. territorial waters extend 12 miles out to sea. I seem to remember that from the BP platform leak that affected Louisiana.

International law recognizes sovereignty to extend 12 miles from the coast but certain individual countries (superpowers) have extended that territory.

[StanUpshaw]

Think of it this way. The oil companies are making record profits with gas at almost $4,00 a gallon. If the price of crude came down, why would the oil companies lower the price? They are not in business to help the American consumer, they are in business to make as much money as possible.

Why the Keystone pipeline would boost pump prices (http://bottomline.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/27/10519685-why-the-keystone-pipeline-would-boost-pump-prices)

Keystone Pipeline Brings Pain at Pump, Few Jobs: Jonathan Alter (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-02/keystone-pipe-brings-pain-at-pump-few-jobs-commentary-by-jonathan-alter.html)

Then why do gas prices ever come down? If all the oil companies can conspire and set prices, then why haven't prices always just gone up? Use your fucking head.

[Jujubees2]

Then why do gas prices ever come down? If all the oil companies can conspire and set prices, then why haven't prices always just gone up? Use your fucking head.

Why do oil companies continue to make record profits each year?

If I was selling a widget for $1.00 but the cost of raw materials went up so I had to charge $2.00 and I was selling just as many (or more), why would I lower the price back to a $1.00 when the cost of raw materials came down? Sure the oil companies will lower the price a bit when the cost of crude comes down but they are in business to maximize profits.

[StanUpshaw]

Why do oil companies continue to make record profits each year?

If I was selling a widget for $1.00 but the cost of raw materials went up so I had to charge $2.00 and I was selling just as many (or more), why would I lower the price back to a $1.00 when the cost of raw materials came down? Sure the oil companies will lower the price a bit when the cost of crude comes down but they are in business to maximize profits.

Because there isn't a single oil company.

You can't make any money selling gas at $3/gal if the other 5 stores in town are selling it for $2.75

[WRESTLINGFAN]

As usual, people just read some headling saying that Exxon made 10 billion last quarter.

Its hardly ever reported on the low profit margin on oil companies and the fact that the fed and state gov't also take in billions thru fed and state excise taxes. Also Exxon has something like 80,000 employees it needs to be profitable. Oil companies dont set the prices, those are done thru spot deals.

[spoon]

As usual, people just read some headling saying that Exxon made 10 billion last quarter.

Its hardly ever reported on the low profit margin on oil companies and the fact that the fed and state gov't also take in billions thru fed and state excise taxes. Also Exxon has something like 80,000 employees it needs to be profitable. Oil companies dont set the prices, those are done thru spot deals.

so nice to see you defend the little guys for once

[StanUpshaw]

As usual, people just read some headling saying that Exxon made 10 billion last quarter.

Its hardly ever reported on the low profit margin on oil companies and the fact that the fed and state gov't also take in billions thru fed and state excise taxes. Also Exxon has something like 80,000 employees it needs to be profitable. Oil companies dont set the prices, those are done thru spot deals.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/382901-chevron-looks-poised-to-continue-its-climb-higher

Profit margin at Chevron is the best of the three companies at 11.38% versus Exxon's 9.07% and BP's 6.84%.

They're evil I tells ya

[WRESTLINGFAN]

so nice to see you defend the little guys for once

Maybe the news should be reported accurately to the little guys.


If Chu and Obama ever have their dreams come into fruition only little guys will be able to fit into the cars they want people to drive

[WRESTLINGFAN]

4 years ago The crew at MSNBC were saying Bush is an oilman, Prices are over $4 a gallon and its nothing to see here. So is Obama one too?

[underdog]

The BP rig was within the US exclusive economic zone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_economic_zone), the waters extending 200 miles offshore.

I can't wait for the new History Channel show Cod Wars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cod_Wars).

[ozzie]

What do I look like, Halliburton? Read this: http://www.boemre.gov/offshore/GOMESARevenueSharing.htm

Thanks, but couldn't get to that site from work. I'll check it out later.

Construction jobs, refinery jobs. Obama spews rhetoric about getting Americans back to work, but he puts the brakes on this? Fuck him.

On the other hand, if they can't build the pipeline without hundreds of eminent domain thefts, fuck them.

As far as gas prices, I don't think it matters all that much where the oil goes to get refined. Increases in supply, wherever on the globe they occur, will help prices.

Construction jobs are temporary. And who says they'd be American workers? Isn't it possible that TransCanada would employ Canadians?

Good point about the eminent domain thing. I wasn't even thinking about the impact to private land owners.

I also saw where the crude coming from that region would be super thick. One article compared the usual oil piped to/from places like Cushing, OK to being like "Coca-cola", whereas the stuff from Alberta would be like "cake batter"... so it has to be thinned with something, and they're not very clear on what, but it's assumed that it would be toxic.

Which further increases the impact to midwestern farmers if/when there was ever a leak or spill.

I still think the prez is being prudent in being cautious and taking his/our time on this one, and weighing all the pro's and con's.

[underdog]

so nice to see you defend the little guys for once

:laugh:

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Obama wants to be cautionary, but will spend lavishly on failed green energy companies with no due diligence

[ozzie]

Obama wants to be cautionary, but will spend lavishly on failed green energy companies with no due diligence

I can't argue with that.

But I'm also not buying that he's somehow sabotaging the price of oil and gas in an election year either, just to appease his green energy buddies.

If gas hits anywhere near $5 this summer, I still see him lifting the executive ban, just like Bush did in July '08.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I can't argue with that.

But I'm also not buying that he's somehow sabotaging the price of oil and gas in an election year either, just to appease his green energy buddies.

If gas hits anywhere near $5 this summer, I still see him lifting the executive ban, just like Bush did in July '08.

A factor in the high oil prices is due to the weaker dollar due to the federal reserve doing quantitative easing. Basically just flooding the economy with cash making existing money woth not as much. Commodities are bought as a hedge to a weaker dollar


But we are in full recovery mode!!! haaaa


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/guest-post-if-such-strong-economy-why-does-chart-look-recessionary

[ozzie]

4 years ago The crew at MSNBC were saying Bush is an oilman, Prices are over $4 a gallon and its nothing to see here. So is Obama one too?

I'll say it again... it's an election year. I really don't see how it's in Obama's, or the Democrat's interest to side with the "oilmen".

You would think that if these decisions were purely political, that it would be the Democrats pushing to pass the keystone xl, and lift the executive ban. Whatever it took to lower prices at the pump this summer and fall. And that the Republican's would want to delay the XL until they got their guy in office.

But... it's completely the other way around.

So, you have to ask yourself... what is motivating each side? Hmmm...

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I'll say it again... it's an election year. I really don't see how it's in Obama's, or the Democrat's interest to side with the "oilmen".

You would think that if these decisions were purely political, that it would be the Democrats pushing to pass the keystone xl, and lift the executive ban. Whatever it took to lower prices at the pump this summer and fall. And that the Republican's would want to delay the XL until they got their guy in office.

But... it's completely the other way around.

So, you have to ask yourself... what is motivating each side? Hmmm...

The administration is going to spin it as an improving economy while Newt promises $2.50 a gallon gas.

[Crispy123]

1300 dow, lower unemployment, jobs creation... can't wait to see how they spin that to look like the economy is getting better.

[spoon]

The administration is going to spin it as an improving economy while Newt promises $2.50 a gallon gas.

are they drilling his ass to roll back prices wallmart style??

[spoon]

1300 dow, lower unemployment, jobs creation... can't wait to see how they spin that to look like the economy is getting better.

Fingers in ears...nnnnnnaaaaaaah nahhh nahhhh!

[WRESTLINGFAN]

1300 dow, lower unemployment, jobs creation... can't wait to see how they spin that to look like the economy is getting better.

Yup, a jazzy headline makes everything great.


The stock market isnt the leading indicator of the economy. If anything a weak dollar makes it attractive to foreign investors There are less people in the workforce so that really isnt a true unemployment rate.

I'll post again


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/guest-...k-recessionary

[StanUpshaw]

1300 dow, lower unemployment, jobs creation... can't wait to see how they spin that to look like the economy is getting better.

Prodigious money printing, plummeting participation rate, deficit spending.

But hey, if this shell game makes you feel all warm and fuzzy, then I guess they've done their job.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

BUY BUY BUY!!!!



http://www.nytix.com/repository/tvshows/Mad%20Money/Jim-Cramer.jpg



:lol::lol::lol::lol:

[WRESTLINGFAN]

750k for a soccer field in GITMO. They can fly in David Beckham to give a soccer clinic for cheaper


Why do they need fancy digs? The kids playing soccer in many Latin American countries can make do with less

[Crispy123]

Yup, a jazzy headline makes everything great.


The stock market isnt the leading indicator of the economy. If anything a weak dollar makes it attractive to foreign investors There are less people in the workforce so that really isnt a true unemployment rate.

I'll post again


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/guest-...k-recessionary

Prodigious money printing, plummeting participation rate, deficit spending.

But hey, if this shell game makes you feel all warm and fuzzy, then I guess they've done their job.

if WF and Stan keep posting crap it MUST be true. :thumbdown:

[StanUpshaw]

if WF and Stan keep posting crap it MUST be true. :thumbdown:

Or, you know, we just understand economics.

[Crispy123]

Or, you know, we just understand economics.

THATS it. must be. you two know the truth. Wow. My. Mind. Is. Blown.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Or, you know, we just understand economics.

Crispy might be a subscriber of the Keynesian theory.

Paul Krugman knows all :lol::lol:

[StanUpshaw]

Crispy might be a subscriber of the Keynesian theory.

Paul Krugman knows all :lol::lol:

I'd have a little respect for him if he actually subscribed to a school of economic thought. He just regurgitates the nonsense his beloved leaders feed him.

[Crispy123]

Dammit I don't have Stans respect! How will I sleep? O yea, better.

The Fox news boys talk about regurgitating the leaders propaganda is laffable.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

In January, 2.8 million persons were marginally attached to the labor
force, essentially unchanged from a year earlier. (The data are not
seasonally adjusted.) These individuals were not in the labor force,
wanted and were available for work, and had looked for a job sometime
in the prior 12 months. They were not counted as unemployed because
they had not searched for work in the 4 weeks preceding the survey.
(See table A-16.)

Among the marginally attached, there were 1.1 million discouraged
workers in January, little different from a year earlier. (The data
are not seasonally adjusted.) Discouraged workers are persons not
currently looking for work because they believe no jobs are available
for them. The remaining 1.7 million persons marginally attached to the
labor force in January had not searched for work in the 4 weeks
preceding the survey for reasons such as school attendance or family
responsibilities. (See table A-16.)

People Are Not Leaving the Labor Force (http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/tag/dropping-out-of-the-labor-force/)

Why are people dropping out of the labor force? (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/why-are-people-dropping-out-of-the-labor-force/2011/12/02/gIQAfJLuKO_blog.html)

[StanUpshaw]

Dammit I don't have Stans respect! How will I sleep? O yea, better.

The Fox news boys talk about regurgitating the leaders propaganda is laffable.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

Uh-oh! I'm backed into a corner! Better say Fox News!

[Crispy123]

Uh oh, economy is improving. Quick say its all lies and that people don't REALLY understand the numbers! I will support my crazy ideas with right wing website links!!!

[Dell]

there's no place like fox news...there's no place like fox news...

http://www.mkosior.com/rubyslippers.gif

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Uh-oh! I'm backed into a corner! Better say Fox News!

I wish I had a dollar each time he said Fox

[Crispy123]

I wish I had a dollar each time he said Fox

deny deny deny.

[ozzie]

I wish I had a dollar each time he said Fox

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You're welcome. And I expect a cut.

[A.J.]

BUY BUY BUY!!!!



http://www.nytix.com/repository/tvshows/Mad%20Money/Jim-Cramer.jpg



:lol::lol::lol::lol:

SELL! SELL! SELL!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-R50mVRqYIF8/TVV2YHpg81I/AAAAAAAACMY/MWqSCO93N6I/s1600/trader.jpg

[keithy_19]

The Fox news boys talk about regurgitating the leaders propaganda is laffable.


http://images.artistdirect.com/Images/Sources/AMGCOVERS/music/cover200/drn300/n328/n32871tjj2q.jpg

[WRESTLINGFAN]

F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F
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F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F
O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O
X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X
F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F
O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O
X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X
F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F
O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O
X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X
F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F
O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O
X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X
F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F
O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O
X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X
F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F
O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O
X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X
F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F
O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O
X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X
F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F
O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O X F O

You're welcome. And I expect a cut.


With a weak dollar and a shitty economy how about 5% ?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Paging Mr Obama!!!


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Bg98BvqUvCc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Bob Impact]

But what about the weakness of the dollar? Can you tell me about additional impacts that I may not have considered?

[Crispy123]

But what about the weakness of the dollar? Can you tell me about additional impacts that I may not have considered?

War with Iran.

[hanso]

I hate being this ignorant about it, especially living this close to the gulf and all.

So, does the U.S. then OWN the mineral rights? (Do we own the oil and gas?)

Does BP or whomever BUY or pay for what they pull up?

Or are we just charge for the lease?



And, again, what's in it for us to allow a canadian company to build a pipeline that runs across US soil?

And why are there refineries suing TransCanada?

I know the republicans are pressing Obama to just sign the damn thing and allow it to get started, but from the little I know, I kinda side with the Prez on demanding that this thing is thoroughly researched.

There seems to be more to it than just "Let them build the damn thing so that our gas prices will go down!"

For one... I'm just not convinced that there is a direct, immediate, guaranteed cause and affect.

Sure, if/when the supply goes up, the market will adjust the price of oil.

But with the pipeline thing... the fucking oil is there already. It's now up to them to figure out how to get it to the refineries.

They've already said that without the keystone xl pipeline, they'd just pipe it or ship it over to Asia. You still increase the world supply, and therefore lower the price of oil.

I just don't see where Obama is to blame for rising gas/oil prices.

In the same way, I wasn't blaming Bush in 2008 either.

It's easy to assume or hope that US oil companies are legit and honest... but fuck that.

I have ZERO confidence that if the price they pay per barrell goes down because they're able to get it to the refineries via a pipeline rather than by tanker, that they would automatically pass the savings on to US consumers.

But I guess that's the hope anyway.


Quick answer is oil is a world commodity and goes to the highest bidder. So short of nationalizing the oil operations in one's country it is pretty much name your price.

[disneyspy]

Quick answer is oil is a world commodity and goes to the highest bidder. So short of nationalizing the oil operations in one's country it is pretty much name your price.

how is frozen concentrated OJ doing?

[hanso]

how is frozen concentrated OJ doing?

He don't think clear in his cold jail cell or sum?! tss tss (arm nudge).

[pennington]

how is frozen concentrated OJ doing?

We'll have the report from Mr. Beeks soon.

http://cdn3.hark.com/images/000/395/022/395022/original.jpg

[Syd]

They've already said that without the keystone xl pipeline, they'd just pipe it or ship it over to Asia.

Just as you said, it doesn't matter where it goes -- it increases global supply, which reduces or limits price here in America. The Keystone XL pipeline is a huge debacle brought to you by the Kochs and the "small government" politicians they bought which are eminent domaining lands left and right. On top of that, the pipeline goes over the major aquifer for the midwest which means if there's a pipeline leak, there's a massive hit to food supplies.

All that's going to happen is they re-route the pipeline over less sensitive areas, but it will increase costs a bit and reduce the profit margin for those involved. All because profit margin is more important than feeding the nation.

A factor in the high oil prices is due to the weaker dollar due to the federal reserve doing quantitative easing. Basically just flooding the economy with cash making existing money woth not as much. Commodities are bought as a hedge to a weaker dollar


But we are in full recovery mode!!! haaaa


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/guest-post-if-such-strong-economy-why-does-chart-look-recessionary

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/interest-rates/Pages/TextView.aspx?data=yield

If the market is flooded with cash, the market isn't representing it as such because no one is asking for much in the way of a return on t-bills.

The reason oil is high is because there's a lot going on in the world that can disrupt the oil supply, and there's not an ample amount of cushion in the supply to overcome any disruptions. You buy up the oil and hope for the Strait of Hormuz to be shut down, more unrest in Ethiopia or a political row concerning Syria and Venezuela to shut off supplies to America.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Just as you said, it doesn't matter where it goes -- it increases global supply, which reduces or limits price here in America. The Keystone XL pipeline is a huge debacle brought to you by the Kochs and the "small government" politicians they bought which are eminent domaining lands left and right. On top of that, the pipeline goes over the major aquifer for the midwest which means if there's a pipeline leak, there's a massive hit to food supplies.

All that's going to happen is they re-route the pipeline over less sensitive areas, but it will increase costs a bit and reduce the profit margin for those involved. All because profit margin is more important than feeding the nation.



http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/interest-rates/Pages/TextView.aspx?data=yield

If the market is flooded with cash, the market isn't representing it as such because no one is asking for much in the way of a return on t-bills.

The reason oil is high is because there's a lot going on in the world that can disrupt the oil supply, and there's not an ample amount of cushion in the supply to overcome any disruptions. You buy up the oil and hope for the Strait of Hormuz to be shut down, more unrest in Ethiopia or a political row concerning Syria and Venezuela to shut off supplies to America.

Boom!!! Supply and demand another factor!!!!

That explanation is a good example and could possibly happen, only a minimum shutdown of the Straits of Hormuz and the price for a bbl could skyrocket


The weakness of the dollar and a higher stock market also fits in. Plus oil is sold in USD and USD is traded against major currencies like the Euro and GBP

[Syd]

the dollar isn't weak
http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/interest-rates/Pages/TextView.aspx?data=billrates

even head to head against the euro, the dollar isn't even near the all-time low exchange rate that was mostly possible because of the Greek/Italy/Ireland/Portugal/Spain/France eurobubble

http://www.google.com/finance?q=EURUSD

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Our President is such a badass,

A reporter from the HuffPo asked him if he would advocate his superpac to return the 1mm to Bill Maher and ask for apologies from him and like a fucking pussy he goes to the next question from Jessica Yellin

[StanUpshaw]

The Influence Industry: Obama gives administration jobs to some big fundraisers
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/the-influence-industry-obama-gives-administration-jobs-to-some-big-fundraisers/2012/03/06/gIQA9y3txR_story.html

More than half of Obama’s 47 biggest fundraisers, those who collected at least $500,000 for his campaign, have been given administration jobs. Nine more have been appointed to presidential boards and committees.
...
Obama has appointed campaign bundlers to a range of other jobs as well. Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. was a bundler, raising at least $50,000, as was Julius Genachowski, the chairman of the Federal Communications Commission, who raised at least half a million dollars.

Obama hired bundler Steve Spinner as a liaison in the Energy Department. According to internal e-mails turned over in a congressional investigation, Spinner pressed for staff members to finalize a government loan for Solyndra, the now-shuttered solar company in which another campaign bundler was a major investor.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Should be rated PG For pure garbage

In a world where Presidents and surrogates can spew out bumper sticker bulletpoints comes a fairy tale of false hopes and broken promises



http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57393187-503544/obama-campaign-unveils-trailer-for-promotional-re-election-film/

[StanUpshaw]

Should be rated PG For pure garbage

In a world where Presidents and surrogates can spew out bumper sticker bulletpoints comes a fairy tale of false hopes and broken promises



http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57393187-503544/obama-campaign-unveils-trailer-for-promotional-re-election-film/

Triumph of the Hope and Change

[A.J.]

Blame Bush and the GOP House: got it.

[high fly]

Our President is such a badass,

A reporter from the HuffPo asked him if he would advocate his superpac to return the 1mm to Bill Maher and ask for apologies from him and like a fucking pussy he goes to the next question from Jessica Yellin


Like a fucking pussy he killed bin Laden.

[brettmojo]

Like a fucking pussy he killed bin Laden.
Face.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I wasn't aware Obama was on seal team 6

[hanso]

I wasn't aware Obama was on seal team 6

How about Mitt Romney's Zombie Army?

[Crispy123]

I wasn't aware Obama was on seal team 6

it is weird you didn't know that. Im pretty sure they covered it on Fox & Friends.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

In regards to his testimony on Syria last week. Panetta is starting to sound like his boss in wanting International permission before striking Syria.


1. Are they a threat to us?

2. Does Panetta know that theres this pesky body called congress? Then again Libya was conducted by an imperial presidency

[TripleSkeet]

I wasn't aware Obama was on seal team 6

As Ive told other Republican friends of mine, you dont get to play this game. He was the President that gave the order that took out Bin Laden. Period. Pulling the trigger means nothing. That credit is his and always will be. You dont get to try to take it away and somehow give it just to the Military unit that followed the order and not to the guy that gave it.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

As Ive told other Republican friends of mine, you dont get to play this game. He was the President that gave the order that took out Bin Laden. Period. Pulling the trigger means nothing. That credit is his and always will be. You dont get to try to take it away and somehow give it just to the Military unit that followed the order and not to the guy that gave it.

Im not a republican but I'll reply anyway.


Obama made the decision after waiting 16 hours. So those seals were just playing wargames? There was a downed helicopter and other factors. Obama was 8000 miles away not facing any threat.


Looking at it ANY president would have given the OK for the kill.

[high fly]

As Ive told other Republican friends of mine, you dont get to play this game. He was the President that gave the order that took out Bin Laden. Period. Pulling the trigger means nothing. That credit is his and always will be. You dont get to try to take it away and somehow give it just to the Military unit that followed the order and not to the guy that gave it.

Indeed.
It was one thing to approve the training for the mission, but quite another to order it when bin laden had not been spotted in the compound nor did we have any agents in the compound to confirm what was, at most circumstantial evidence.
It was far from a 100% chance of bin Laden being there and they were sent in without at least one anti-aircraft missile being unaccounted for.
president Obama gambled and won and now history will rightly give him credit for being right on a tough call.
It is an easy call if it is a certainty, but not easy when it is not.

President Obama also gets credit for his change in policy that put priorities, resources and effort where they should have been all along.
Bush had bin Laden in the cross hairs at Tora Bora but bin Laden got away because the ground commanders for the Army and CIA were denied requests to block the escape routes with troops in theater who were otherwise unoccupied.
Orders to withdraw special operations forces trained, equipped and organized to go after targets like bin Laden were given in December 2001. Their withdrawal and replacement with line infantry began soon afterward.
Had Bush not forced our forces to fight with one hand tied behind their backs, bin Laden would have been killed and we would be out of that Afghan shithole.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

If Bin Laden was caught in Tora Bora we would still have been in Afghanistan. Thats what this country does, we stay for too long, nation build and expect other cultures to adapt to what we believe they should.


The people of Afghanistan dont want a representative republic or a democracy. They are fine living under a government that approves Islamic law. Its not our duty to spread democracy like the neocons and many democrats want

[TripleSkeet]

Im not a republican but I'll reply anyway.


Obama made the decision after waiting 16 hours. So those seals were just playing wargames? There was a downed helicopter and other factors. Obama was 8000 miles away not facing any threat.


Looking at it ANY president would have given the OK for the kill.

It doesnt fucking matter. Hes the President that got Osama Bin Laden. Its not up for debate. Bin Laden was killed under his watch, he gets the credit. Spin it anyway you want you dont get to take that away from him. Period.

[A.J.]

Im not a republican but I'll reply anyway.


Obama made the decision after waiting 16 hours. So those seals were just playing wargames? There was a downed helicopter and other factors. Obama was 8000 miles away not facing any threat.


Looking at it ANY president would have given the OK for the kill.

You yourself have made the argument time and again that the only thing he had to campaign on was the fact that his greatest accomplishment as President was that he got bin Ladin.

[StanUpshaw]

You yourself have made the argument time and again that the only thing he had to campaign on was the fact that his greatest accomplishment as President was that he got bin Ladin.

Whoever bagged bin Laden was going to exploit it for political gain. That much was never in doubt. Whether it was Bush, Obama, or Assclown #45, it would definitely earn that person votes from the bloodthirsty idiots who actually believe one more dead Arab really changes anything.

[A.J.]

Like a fucking pussy he killed bin Laden.

And yet Zawahiri and the traitor Adam Gadhan are still out there. :tongue:

[WRESTLINGFAN]

He made the decision to kill Bin Laden but did it get him to a 90% approval rating? Bush 41 got it for the Gulf war but he lost the election Obama got a slight bump for about a week and he quickly dropped like a rock.


Having an Arab shot in the face was an accomplishment but it didnt fix the economy, Its not doing anything about rising food and energy prices and out of control fiscal policies.

[Bob Impact]

He made the decision to kill Bin Laden but did it get him to a 90% approval rating? Bush 41 got it for the Gulf war but he lost the election Obama got a slight bump for about a week and he quickly dropped like a rock.


Having an Arab shot in the face was an accomplishment but it didnt fix the economy, Its not doing anything about rising food and energy prices and out of control fiscal policies.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_obama_job_approval-1044.html
Please, point to where, exactly, his rating "dropped like a rock" after Osama died.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_obama_job_approval-1044.html
Please, point to where, exactly, his rating "dropped like a rock" after Osama died.

AJC Reports he got a slight bump after Bin Laden was killed.


It was only temporary in which it went back into the 40's


http://blogs.ajc.com/political-insider-jim-galloway/2011/05/03/for-barack-obama-the-osama-bin-laden-bump-doesn%E2%80%99t-translate-to-the-economy/

[Bob Impact]

You didn't answer my question.

[spoon]

You didn't answer my question.

come on

you're too smart to actually expect a direct answer from wf

at least I thought you were

[weekapaugjz]

Assclown #45

assclown #45 2012!!!

[disneyspy]

assclown #45 2012!!!

hooo waaaah

[WRESTLINGFAN]

You didn't answer my question.

A couple of weeks after OBL was killed. I cant be more clear than that


Going from 56% to the 40's is dropping like a rock. Maybe in different economic times Obama would have gone higher. While Killing OBL was an accomplishment people were more focused on the economy

[high fly]

come on

you're too smart to actually expect a direct answer from wf

at least I thought you were


Yes, b ut give WF credit for identifying the significance of killing bin Laden lay in approval ratings followed by a redirect to another subject....

[Bob Impact]

A couple of weeks after OBL was killed. I cant be more clear than that


Going from 56% to the 40's is dropping like a rock. Maybe in different economic times Obama would have gone higher. While Killing OBL was an accomplishment people were more focused on the economy

1) You have an odd definition of dropping like a rock.
2) OK, I see your definition, THAT NEVER HAPPENED.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_obama_job_approval-1044.html

[high fly]

Whoever bagged bin Laden was going to exploit it for political gain. That much was never in doubt. Whether it was Bush, Obama, or Assclown #45, it would definitely earn that person votes from the bloodthirsty idiots who actually believe one more dead Arab really changes anything.

I agree with the first point. Like it or not, our president gets credit for bin Laden's demise.

I disagree with the second point in some respects.
Bin Laden was still active in directing al Qaeda operations and was a charismatic leader whom people looked up to. He had also gained mythical status as a man impervious to the most powerful military in the world.
President Obama put an end to that.
Our president's aggressive campaign that included dramatically increased drone strikes on al Qaeda leadership in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen and Somalia has killed them more quickly than they could be replaced. Previously, killing one here, one there, gave them time to find new leaders to fit into the established organization that could continue to function. Obama killed them quickly enough in sufficient numbers that new leaders do not have such an established organization to fit into.
The al Qaeda that attacked us on 9/11 is pretty much done.
However, I think you are right in your final point in that resentment and hatred for the U.S. still exists and will give rise to further attacks as long as the motivations for doing so exist.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Wow what a shocker.


I hope this fucking bill gets overturned.


http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/313668/20120313/obamacare-cbo-revised.htm

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The Influence Industry: Obama gives administration jobs to some big fundraisers
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/the-influence-industry-obama-gives-administration-jobs-to-some-big-fundraisers/2012/03/06/gIQA9y3txR_story.html

Let the bundling continue!!!

Obama is a hero to the 99%

:lol::lol::lol:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/03/obamas-top-campaign-bundlers-among-state-dinner-guests/

[high fly]

come on

you're too smart to actually expect a direct answer from wf

at least I thought you were


I just take it as a concession of nearly every point made.
It's like being in a seriers of basketball games in which you only have to score one basket to win....

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I just take it as a concession of nearly every point made.
It's like being in a seriers of basketball games in which you only have to score one basket to win....



You have an odd interpretation of concession

Using Basketball as a comment in an Obama thread?



Racist !!!

[PapaBear]

You have an odd interpretation of concession

Using Basketball as a comment in an Obama thread?



Racist !!!
To be fair, it's well known that it's the only sport he has any real grasp of.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

To be fair, it's well known that it's the only sport he has any real grasp of.

True, He sucks at baseball and he didnt realize that his beloved White Sox once played at Comiskey park

[WRESTLINGFAN]

http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/web04/2012/3/14/23/enhanced-buzz-10162-1331780417-133.jpg

[Syd]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/16/us-cpi-idUSBRE82F0N220120316

Consumer prices rose the most in 10 months in February as the cost of gasoline spiked, but there was little sign that underlying inflation pressures were building up.

The Labor Department said the Consumer Price Index rose 0.4 percent in February after advancing 0.2 percent in January. Gasoline accounted for more than 80 percent of the rise.

Outside the volatile food and energy categories, inflation pressures were generally contained. The core CPI edged up 0.1 percent after gaining 0.2 percent in January.

"Despite the spike in energy prices, which should have only temporary effects on CPI inflation, the downward trajectory for consumer price inflation remains largely intact," said Millan Mulraine, senior macro strategist at TD Securities in New York.

"We expect the benign inflationary backdrop and weak pace of slack absorption the economy to provide a supportive environment for monetary policy."

The Federal Reserve said on Tuesday that the recent spike in energy costs would likely push up inflation temporarily. Over the medium-term, inflation was likely to run at or below its 2 percent target, it said.

As much as WF tries to post about it, we're still running inflation that is slightly lower than it should be -- it's still relatively healthy as the GDP growth is very, very close to it but it'd be nice to see inflation higher than GDP for the sake of reducing consumer debt.

[StanUpshaw]

Because we all know how well wages have kept up with inflation.

[Crispy123]

I disagree, wages should be higher.

[StanUpshaw]

I disagree, wages should be higher.

This is your least annoying gimmick yet.

[Crispy123]

This is your least annoying gimmick yet.

Thank you. I find you less annoying than usual today as well.

[Furtherman]

Thank you. I find you less annoying than usual today as well.

The day isn't over.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The government has creative ways of saying that inflation isnt a big deal. Add comments from the federal reserve and of course its laughable. Inflation is higher than what the government says. Think they want to present bad news?


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505144_162-57387655/inflation-not-as-low-as-you-think/

[Bob Impact]

The government has creative ways of saying that inflation isnt a big deal. Add comments from the federal reserve and of course its laughable. Inflation is higher than what the government says. Think they want to present bad news?


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505144_162-57387655/inflation-not-as-low-as-you-think/

Admittedly, the purchases that the EPI tracks make up slightly less than 40 percent of the average household budget. But Steven Cunningham, research and education director at AIER, says these items are what contribute to the "sticker shock at the gasoline pump and the supermarket check-out line."

*sigh* WF, you just never learn.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

*sigh* WF, you just never learn.


The federal reserve is keeping int rates artificially low, think that's not a factor?

And count on the CPI being revised just like almost any other metric provided by these charlatans

[Furtherman]

Yea, artificially low. That's like, fake low. It's not real low.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

And the federal reserve is really federal and has like tons of reserves

[Syd]

The government has creative ways of saying that inflation isnt a big deal. Add comments from the federal reserve and of course its laughable. Inflation is higher than what the government says. Think they want to present bad news?


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505144_162-57387655/inflation-not-as-low-as-you-think/

And that non-profit has creative ways of saying inflation is a big deal, by focusing on things that don't actually include the majority of spending.

As far as them pretending inflation is low, look at t-bills:
http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/interest-rates/Pages/TextView.aspx?data=yield

People are literally betting their money on inflation being quite low over 10 years.

[StanUpshaw]

And that non-profit has creative ways of saying inflation is a big deal, by focusing on things that don't actually include the majority of spending.

As far as them pretending inflation is low, look at t-bills:
http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/interest-rates/Pages/TextView.aspx?data=yield

People are literally betting their money on inflation being quite low over 10 years.

If by "people" you mean the fed itself, then yes.

[Bob Impact]

The federal reserve is keeping int rates artificially low, think that's not a factor?

And count on the CPI being revised just like almost any other metric provided by these charlatans

I'm not making any comments on inflation itself, just the fact that you posted yet another article that explains how it's only vaguely related directly in the text of the article.

[zildjian361]

gas has already gone up in 45cents in the last month. it' a start.

4 years later aint nuthin changed,same shit :flush::sad:

[hanso]

Gas was over 4$ then, we have kindler gentler high gas prices now. Jobs were being lost at around 140k month. We have just below average gains now.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/jdq0nN_JLtU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[WRESTLINGFAN]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ERUDX4mK1ww" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

And the administration caught in another lie


http://news.heartland.org/newspaper-article/2012/03/14/study-feds-approving-fewer-oil-and-gas-leases

[hanso]

OBL dead. First health care reform dating back to 1935..CBO: Bill Will Cut Deficit $130B in 1st 10 Years and $1.2T in 2nd 10 Years.

[hanso]

Gas was over 4$ then, we have kindler gentler high gas prices now. Jobs were being lost at around 140k month. We have just below average gains now.

Make that 700k month. 140k is the average gain.

[Bob Impact]

OBL dead. First health care reform dating back to 1935..CBO: Bill Will Cut Deficit $130B in 1st 10 Years and $1.2T in 2nd 10 Years.

You're fucking kidding right? First of all that gives no information about it's impact on prices, secondly that's a drop in the bucket. Here, since you like to quote the CBO:

President Barack Obama‘s budget would produce a deficit of $977 billion in fiscal year 2013, the Congressional Budget Office said Friday, higher than the White House projected.

The CBO, the nonpartisan budget cruncher for Congress, said that, if the president’s budget were enacted, the deficit would rise $3.5 trillion more over 10 years than originally expected.

Yes, this is a fiscally sound president with fiscally sound plans.

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2012/03/16/cbo-issues-higher-deficit-projection-for-obama-budget/

[high fly]

And that non-profit has creative ways of saying inflation is a big deal, by focusing on things that don't actually include the majority of spending.

As far as them pretending inflation is low, look at t-bills:
http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/interest-rates/Pages/TextView.aspx?data=yield

People are literally betting their money on inflation being quite low over 10 years.

Yeah, but those are experts and professionals putting their money on the line. What would they know?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Yesterday was the 2 year anniversary of Obamacare. Umm I mean Affordable Care Act. Notice not a peep out of the administration of his crowning accomplishment?

They know its unpopular


SCOTUS takes this up 3/26 Lets hope this is struck down.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I see that the administration is giving 1.5 billion in foreign aid to Egypt. Maybe they can turn the pyramids of Geza into windfarms. Or since they love to hand out assault weapons, they can implement a fast and furious program Jihadi edition.

[CurseoftheBambi]

you haven't been looking in the ..excuse the expression...right places (you'll never see that in the RIGHT places) ..if u haven't seen obama celebrate the affordable health care act.

[JimBeam]

So within 4 days he manages to make a comment that seems as though he's only interested in the justice for people that could " look like him " and also makes a comment that makes it sound like once he's elected he can do what he likes.

[A.J.]

So within 4 days he manages to make a comment that seems as though he's only interested in the justice for people that could " look like him " and also makes a comment that makes it sound like once he's elected he can do what he likes.

Yes, because second terms always go well.

[Crispy123]

So within 4 days he manages to make a comment that seems as though he's only interested in the justice for people that could " look like him " and also makes a comment that makes it sound like once he's elected he can do what he likes.

do you have quotes of these comments or is that your (fox news) interpretation of what the Pres said?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

CBS Sufficient?


http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7403250n

He can just issue executive orders and circumvent congress. He already did with the Libyan war.

[Crispy123]

CBS Sufficient?


http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7403250n

I, like everyone who watches the news, has seen where he said he will have more flexibility after the election.

I am looking for the quote where he said, "I can do whatever I like."

So within 4 days he manages to make a comment that seems as though he's only interested in the justice for people that could " look like him " and also makes a comment that makes it sound like once he's elected he can do what he likes.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I, like everyone who watches the news, has seen where he said he will have more flexibility after the election.

I am looking for the quote where he said, "I can do whatever I like."


Not consenting congress to start a war is already doing whatever he likes

[Crispy123]

Not consenting congress to start a war is already doing whatever he likes

OK. So it IS the foxnews interprets Pres Obama hour. Thats what I thought. Thanx for playing. :bye:

[JimBeam]

do you have quotes of these comments or is that your (fox news) interpretation of what the Pres said?

How can you interpret " would look like me " any differently than it sounds ?

And I saw the story on CNN so unless they were run by Fox on Friday seems like your " go to bit " wouldn't make sense.

I just hope the president can take time from hi busy day to comment on the Miss St student that was murdered this weekend.

I know the victim doesn't look like him but word is the suspects do.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

OK. So it IS the foxnews interprets Pres Obama hour. Thats what I thought. Thanx for playing. :bye:

Were you an employee of Roger Ailes at one time and got passed over for a promotion?

[Crispy123]

How can you interpret " would look like me " any differently than it sounds ?

Show me this quote, clown. And put it ALL to rest.

[JimBeam]

OK. So it IS the foxnews interprets Pres Obama hour. Thats what I thought. Thanx for playing. :bye:

Maybe if you use the Fox quote a few more times you might get yourself to laugh.

Again I saw today's story on Yahoo which linked to ABC news.

People, I'm not saying you because I can't say that I've seen you do it, can interpret everything that comes out of a Republican's mouth to be racist but that can't ever be used on the president right ?

Because his words are so wise they can't be misunderstood.

[Crispy123]

Maybe if you use the Fox quote a few more times you might get yourself to laugh.

Again I saw today's story on Yahoo which linked to ABC news.

People, I'm not saying you because I can't say that I've seen you do it, can interpret everything that comes out of a Republican's mouth to be racist but that can't ever be used on the president right ?

Because his words are so wise they can't be misunderstood.

exactly. you can't find the quote becuz it wasn't said.

go back to watching Fox, dipshit.

[JimBeam]

Oh look at those bulging internet muscles of yours.

Clown and dipshit. So well versed.

I can only imagine what these parents are going through," the president said. "When I think about this boy, I think about my own kids, and I think every parent in American should be able to understand why it is absolutely imperative that we investigate every aspect of this ... You know, if I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon

[Crispy123]

I can only imagine what these parents are going through," the president said. "When I think about this boy, I think about my own kids, and I think every parent in American should be able to understand why it is absolutely imperative that we investigate every aspect of this ... You know, if I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon

How can you interpret " would look like me " any differently than it sounds ?

maybe you are a clown and a dipshit becuz that quote is nothing like what you said?

[disneyspy]

simma

simma down now

simma

[JimBeam]

The point is what difference is it what the kid would look like ?

Why, other than pandering, would he even say such a thing ?

[Crispy123]

The point is what difference is it what the kid would look like ?

Why, other than pandering, would he even say such a thing ?

read the quote again, numbnuts.

its about parents losing a kid. except on Fox where its about the made-up, shitty things Pres Obama says.


I can only imagine what these parents are going through," the president said. "When I think about this boy, I think about my own kids, and I think every parent in American should be able to understand why it is absolutely imperative that we investigate every aspect of this ... You know, if I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon

[Furtherman]

The point is what difference is it what the kid would look like ?

Why, other than pandering, would he even say such a thing ?


The difference is the kid was shot because he was black. C'mon, you can't really fall for this pseudo-reasoning critics of the President consistently twist into something it is not.




And both of you calm down. You can debate in a more reasonable fashion.

[JimBeam]

Where are his comment for the hundreds of other kids killed in a year the vast majority that look like him ?

Why the hell doesn't he say that about the hundreds o soldiers that are dying again many of which look like him ?

No this one incident, that he spoke about almost a month after it happened, is his local news bit for the day.

The issue shouldn't even be about the kid's race but when you have a president making a statement like that it's irresponsible.

Don't act like you wouldn't have been up George Bush's ass if he made a similar comment about a white kid.

[Crispy123]

And both of you calm down. You can debate in a more reasonable fashion.

sorry. there is plenty of things to critique Pres Obama for without blatantly making stuff up.

I will leave the Fox news crowd alone now.

[Furtherman]

sorry. there is plenty of things to critique Pres Obama for without blatantly making stuff up.

I will leave the Fox news crowd alone now.

Well, you're at least right about that - they're busy making stuff up.

[Furtherman]

Where are his comment for the hundreds of other kids killed in a year the vast majority that look like him ?

Why the hell doesn't he say that about the hundreds o soldiers that are dying again many of which look like him ?

No this one incident, that he spoke about almost a month after it happened, is his local news bit for the day.

The issue shouldn't even be about the kid's race but when you have a president making a statement like that it's irresponsible.

Don't act like you wouldn't have been up George Bush's ass if he made a similar comment about a white kid.

Because usually unarmed kids that are shot have justice prevailed when the shooter is actually arrested, and comparing this to a soldier's job is just as pointless as the first part about hundreds of other kids. The President's statement showed compassion, his critics are looking for conviction.

[JimBeam]

The difference is the kid was shot because he was black. C'mon, you can't really fall for this pseudo-reasoning critics of the President consistently twist into something it is not.




And both of you calm down. You can debate in a more reasonable fashion.

Now you're inside the shooters head ?

The kid was shot because of a dumb law that allows a community watch guy to carry a gun AND because the kid was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Not to say that he didn't belong there but that if he had walked by maybe 10 minutes before or after this probably wouldn't have happened.

If the guys intention was only to kill a black kid why even call the police ?

Not every tragedy has to be made into a race issue.

And I find it laughable to be branded a Fox guy when I have maybe had the channel on 5 times in any year.

I guess you can't have any thoughts unless they echo Bill Maher and Jon Stewart ?

Please.

[JimBeam]

The difference is the kid was shot because he was black. C'mon, you can't really fall for this pseudo-reasoning critics of the President consistently twist into something it is not.




And both of you calm down. You can debate in a more reasonable fashion.

Now you're inside the shooters head ?

The kid was shot because of a dumb law that allows a community watch guy to carry a gun AND because the kid was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Not to say that he didn't belong there but that if he had walked by maybe 10 minutes before or after this probably wouldn't have happened.

If the guys intention was only to kill a black kid why even call the police when he could've just walked outside and shot him ?

Not every tragedy has to be made into a race issue.

And I find it laughable to be branded a Fox guy when I have maybe had the channel on 5 times in any year.

I guess you can't have any thoughts unless they echo Bill Maher and Jon Stewart ?

Please.

[JimBeam]

Because usually unarmed kids that are shot have justice prevailed when the shooter is actually arrested, and comparing this to a soldier's job is just as pointless as the first part about hundreds of other kids. The President's statement showed compassion, his critics are looking for conviction.

It wasn't comparing this to a soldiers job.

It was that if a president should be commenting on the senseless death of young men it should be the ones that he's helped put in harms way.

Where's his calls for justice when it's a black kid shooting another black kid ?

It seems like his only concerns for local issues are when it's a black professor and a white cop and a black kid and a Hispanic shooter.

Unless he's gonna comment on every city/state issue he shouldn't say anything.

Not just cherry pick the ones that he thinks will get him the most votes.

[Furtherman]

Zimmerman is a nut who was looking for a fight. If he didn't shoot that kid, he would have shot someone else, and it most likely would have been a black person. The law had nothing to do with it - Zimmerman and his past and 40 something times calling 911 and the fact that he had a gun had everything to do with it.

You've been branded a Fox guy because of you bringing race into the President's statement - something that Fox is more than happy to smear across it's airways.

[Furtherman]

Not just cherry pick the ones that he thinks will get him the most votes.

As if he's asked about every shooting. Ironic you'd use the word cherrypick.

[JimBeam]

So it's your belief, that in every press conference he's held, he's answered every question about a local issue ?

How about he says, " Well I honestly don't know enough aout the case, or Florida law, so lets just hope that everything's investigated completely and that justice is served. "

And please don't make it seem like this was the 1st time he's been somewhere and been asked a question that was strictly regional.

I had the same disgust w/ George Bush Sr when he commented on the results of the verdict against the Rodney King cops.

I was like who the fuck is a president to speak out against a decison handed down by a jury. To be it underminded the judicial process.

And that was a huge reason why I was glad to see him lose that next election. Served him right.

[Furtherman]

I was like who the fuck is a president to speak out against a decison handed down by a jury.

A honest answer just like anyone else who was to be asked.

[JimBeam]

A honest answer just like anyone else who was to be asked.

So not having sat in on a trail and heard evidence alows you to give an honest answer ?

These aren't questions about who you think will win the Final 4.

[Furtherman]

So not having sat in on a trail and heard evidence alows you to give an honest answer ?

These aren't questions about who you think will win the Final 4.

You can ask anyone that question and they'll most likely give you their honest answer. Whether it's right or not remains to be seen.

[JimBeam]

But a POTUS shouldn't act like just anybody.

He, above all people, should be held to a higher standard.

[StanUpshaw]

You're weird. Shut up.

[Furtherman]

But a POTUS shouldn't act like just anybody.

He, above all people, should be held to a higher standard.

OK, for you, that's fine. I don't mind a guy speaking his mind every once in a while.

[JimBeam]

Even if it undermines our entire system ?

So a president doesn't like the results of a trail, of which he had no clue, and he essentially says it's a bad thing and you have no problem with that ?

[Furtherman]

Even if it undermines our entire system ?

So a president doesn't like the results of a trail, of which he had no clue, and he essentially says it's a bad thing and you have no problem with that ?

There was a trial?

[JimBeam]

I thought you were commenting on my part about Bush Sr and his comments after the original Rodney King verdict.

[Furtherman]

I thought you were commenting on my part about Bush Sr and his comments after the original Rodney King verdict.

No. But I'll admit you're right about him having no clue. I don't see how that undermined our entire system, as it has continued in the same way since then.

[StanUpshaw]

I thought you were commenting on my part about Bush Sr and his comments after the original Rodney King verdict.

What did Bush do and how did it undermine the system?

[JimBeam]

It was what he said, not did.

I don't remember the exact quote because it was 20 years ago but essentially he said that he didn't like/agree with the jury's verdict in the trail.

And to me the head of one branch of the government shouldn't criticize things like that when they aren't involved in the details.

[StanUpshaw]

It was what he said, not did.

I don't remember the exact quote because it was 20 years ago but essentially he said that he didn't like/agree with the jury's verdict in the trail.

And to me the head of one branch of the government shouldn't criticize things like that when they aren't involved in the details.

We have this thing called the internet. You're on it right now, in fact.

It allows you to go find facts to back up the silly shit you say.

[JimBeam]

The most precise link is from Wikipedia but t doesn't seem like there's room to misquote it :

President George H W Bush said, "viewed from outside the trial, it was hard to understand how the verdict could possibly square with the video. Those civil rights leaders with whom I met were stunned. And so was I and so was Barbara and so were my kids."[25]

Now he does preface it w/ acknowledging that he was " outside the trail " but still, inmy opinion, as the leaer of the country, shouldn't have voiced an opinion other than that he hoped that all legal avenues were explored.

[Furtherman]

Free speech.

[ozzie]

If my President, or elected official has an opinion on a subject, I'd rather hear it than just hear some PC scripted response.

I may not always agree, but I welcome these people to speak freely and openly on any topic.

I want to know every insane thought that goes through their head on every subject.

Especially if they're planning on running for re-election.

Let your freak flag fly, ladies and gentlemen! Let us know the real YOU.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

you haven't been looking in the ..excuse the expression...right places (you'll never see that in the RIGHT places) ..if u haven't seen obama celebrate the affordable health care act.

Now the administration is touting it as Obamacare


Aside from a couple of lines by Pelosi and Jay Carney the 2 yr anniversary wasnt a big fucking deal as quoting Biden

I hate the bill but Obama supporters should hate it more. They wanted fully single payer

[Bob Impact]

I would think the argument is that it's subversive for a standing president to come down against a jury's decision because he's the president and his word should carry extra weight. Using this argument he should have said "We have a jury system that offers a trial by peers who found him not guilty, blah blah blah."

In general I don't like my president addressing "local" matters but it certainly becomes a gray area. In this recent case with Obama I have no issue with his comment, this time... this is kind of becoming a trend with him though.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Give Obama credit this time. At least he didnt say Zimmerman acted stupidly

[StanUpshaw]

Obama and Zimmerman and Trayvon should all get together and settle this over a beer.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Invite Al Sharpton for some blueberry pie

[pennington]

This is pretty amusing:

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/erYpXzE9Pxs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[A.J.]

The Danish Prime Minister Helle Thorning-Schmidt is pretty hot.

[Furtherman]

This is pretty amusing:

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/erYpXzE9Pxs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

That is hilarious. The President's fondness for pugilistic terms is cringe worthy.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Not a good day for the administration. The solicitor general crashed and burned in his arguments for Obamacare today. Justice Kennedy who many think is the swing vote grilled him extensively on it.


Another day of testimony tomorrow with a final ruling in June

[StanUpshaw]

Anthony Kennedy has far more power than any one man should have.

Fuck this stupid fucking country.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I think it was Alito who asked the solcitor general , does everyone need to have a cell phone to report a 911 emergency?


In regards to people being uninsured, it was SCOTUS requiring hospitals to provide care free of charge to anyone in the 1st place. The cost shifiting in Obamacare is a moot point

[epo]

Not a good day for the administration. The solicitor general crashed and burned in his arguments for Obamacare today. Justice Kennedy who many think is the swing vote grilled him extensively on it.


Another day of testimony tomorrow with a final ruling in June

He and Justice Roberts also grilled the plantiffs pretty good today too. In fact Kennedy was having none of the state's arguments.

This could be a fascinating ruling that could drive an interesting national discussion. Of course, I'm saying that thinking that we are a nation of adults.

[jennysmurf]

I think it was Alito who asked the solcitor general , does everyone need to have a cell phone to report a 911 emergency?


In regards to people being uninsured, it was SCOTUS requiring hospitals to provide care free of charge to anyone in the 1st place. The cost shifiting in Obamacare is a moot point

You've been dying for a chance to say "moot" haven't you?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Latest details on Uncle Onyango's DUI


Dont expect him to be kicked out of the country.

http://bostonherald.com/news/regional/view/20220327presidents_illegal_uncle_back_in_court

[sailor]

What's a half-uncle? I'm legitimately confused by that.

[A.J.]

What's a half-uncle? I'm legitimately confused by that.

A gay uncle?

[StanUpshaw]

What's a half-uncle? I'm legitimately confused by that.

Your dad's half-brother. :wacko:

[sailor]

Makes sense. Never heard it before. I'd think you'd still just call that his uncle.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

So if the individual mandate gets struck down does anyone think it will be a victory for the administration? Some say it will encourage the progressive wing for the Democrats to push for single payer.

[StanUpshaw]

So if the individual mandate gets struck down does anyone think it will be a victory for the administration? Some say it will encourage the progressive wing for the Democrats to push for single payer.

It's become apparent that this administration is not devoted to any sort of egalitarian ideology. If this fails, his paymasters will find some other avenue to reap their plunder.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

I never stepped inside a class in Law school but I could have made a better case than the solicitor general

Jeff Toobin the legal expert on CNN called it a train wreck

[Crispy123]

It's become apparent that this administration is not devoted to any sort of egalitarian ideology.


This belongs in the OTHER (http://ronfez.net/forums/showthread.php?t=79005&page=32&highlight=president) thread.

[Syd]

So if the individual mandate gets struck down does anyone think it will be a victory for the administration? Some say it will encourage the progressive wing for the Democrats to push for single payer.

Mandate was written in by the health insurance industry -- so, I'd like to see it go away. On the other hand, if it gets torched PPACA gets re-written to deny pre-existing conditions again. Though, getting rid of the cap at money spent not on healthcare would be nice to get torched since that only encourages healthcare cost inflation.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

That Obamacare is going to cost even more



http://www.zerohedge.com/news/massive-17-trillion-hole-found-obamacare

[hanso]

So if the individual mandate gets struck down does anyone think it will be a victory for the administration? Some say it will encourage the progressive wing for the Democrats to push for single payer.

That maybe the outcome from what this decision will be.

[StanUpshaw]

That maybe the outcome from what this decision will be.

Hurts this sentence brain becomes is mine.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Now that the Mega millions jackpot is the filler story for the news.

I know it was from about 10 years ago but they showed a video of Obama saying that the lottery is a tax on the poor and working class.

How so? No one is forcing people to buy a ticket, someone buying a ticket is doing so voluntarily, plus theres no extra tax like with tobacco and booze.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Anthony Kennedy has far more power than any one man should have.

Fuck this stupid fucking country.

Also Ben Bernanke, hes just as powerful

[StanUpshaw]

Now that the Mega millions jackpot is the filler story for the news.

I know it was from about 10 years ago but they showed a video of Obama saying that the lottery is a tax on the poor and working class.

How so? No one is forcing people to buy a ticket, someone buying a ticket is doing so voluntarily, plus theres no extra tax like with tobacco and booze.

Unsurprisingly, Obama has changed his tune when it come to preying on poor people's hope.

[Dude!]

Hurts this sentence brain becomes is mine.

got you that right!

[Crispy123]

Unsurprisingly, Obama has changed his tune when it come to preying on poor people's hope.

Hate to disagree but I find that more than a little surprising. :smile:

[StanUpshaw]

Hate to disagree but I find that more than a little surprising. :smile:

Is this still the "politely disagree with sarcastic statements as if they were sincere" character? I can't tell anymore.

[Syd]

Now that the Mega millions jackpot is the filler story for the news.

I know it was from about 10 years ago but they showed a video of Obama saying that the lottery is a tax on the poor and working class.

How so? No one is forcing people to buy a ticket, someone buying a ticket is doing so voluntarily, plus theres no extra tax like with tobacco and booze.

It re-directs money from the lower class (who spend a a far higher proportion of their incomes) to the upper class. It's regressive, and you don't volunteer to pay the money that goes to the state any less than paying any other sales tax.

[A.J.]

Now that the Mega millions jackpot is the filler story for the news.

I know it was from about 10 years ago but they showed a video of Obama saying that the lottery is a tax on the poor and working class.

How so? No one is forcing people to buy a ticket, someone buying a ticket is doing so voluntarily, plus theres no extra tax like with tobacco and booze.

It re-directs money from the lower class (who spend a a far higher proportion of their incomes) to the upper class. It's regressive, and you don't volunteer to pay the money that goes to the state any less than paying any other sales tax.

So Obama should also be against cigarettes. Oh......right.

[Crispy123]

Is this still the "politely disagree with sarcastic statements as if they were sincere" character? I can't tell anymore.

I don't even know what the word sarcastic means, so no. It is most definitely NOT that, sir. :bye:

[WRESTLINGFAN]

The lottery usually goes for education spending.


Im not disagreeing that poorer people play the lottery more but its not a tax. Gambling is a voluntary entity, not paying tax depending on severity is punishable by fines, loss of property, garnishment , and jailtime.


A lotto ticket is gambling, its not a necessity

[StanUpshaw]

It re-directs money from the lower class (who spend a a far higher proportion of their incomes) to the upper class. It's regressive, and you don't volunteer to pay the money that goes to the state any less than paying any other sales tax.

So all the lotto revenue that people voluntarily pay to the state goes for bad things, but all the money the state steals from its citizens at gun points goes for good things? What?

[WRESTLINGFAN]

When playing the lottery youre not getting a good or service, youre just entering a sweepstakes to win a prize. Its not a tax

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Holder gets a homework assignment. I wonder if he will have time, afterall hes busy selling assault weapons to drug cartels in Mexico and suing states for enforcing the law

I guess our constitutional scholar of a President never heard of checks ana balances

http://www.businessinsider.com/5th-circuit-court-dares-obamas-justice-department-to-answer-whether-courts-can-strike-down-laws-2012-4

[Syd]

So all the lotto revenue that people voluntarily pay to the state goes for bad things, but all the money the state steals from its citizens at gun points goes for good things? What?

State money goes toward things that help the vast majority of America, whereas federal taxes generally goes toward things that help the minority of America. Also, I've never had to pay taxes at gun points. I'm not sure in what country you live in, but it's probably libertopia judging from the wanton use of guns.

[StanUpshaw]

None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.

[Earlshog]

None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.

I saw that on a rage against the machine t-shirt.

[StanUpshaw]

I saw your mom on a rage against the machine tshirt

[Earlshog]

I saw your mom on a rage against the machine tshirt

Lets get off Moms, I just got off of yours... AAAA-OOOOOOOOOOO

[Syd]

None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.

Cool, I'm glad I claimed we're all free and you were able to clear it up.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Feed the federal Leviathan even more. Because its not big enough.


http://www.ijreview.com/2012/04/3273-obama-quietly-moves-500-million-to-irs-for-healthcare-implementation/

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Shovel ready


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/obama-invests-5-million-bullshit-energy

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Obama HisPandering again


http://news.yahoo.com/obama-pledges-immigration-reform-early-2nd-term-194506309.html

[spoon]

Romney aides have said that the former Massachusetts governor supports laws that would require employers to verify the legal status of workers they employ.

agree on this part with Mitt, but not the stop anyone you think might not be a citizen and ask for fucking papers...that's just sick

[StanUpshaw]

agree on this part with Mitt

Why would you agree with that?

[spoon]

why not? bc I don't agree with voter suppression cards? is that where you're going?

bc there is a voter registration setup already, while there isn't anything here.

[StanUpshaw]

why not? bc I don't agree with voter suppression cards? is that where you're going?

bc there is a voter registration setup already, while there isn't anything here.

We can deal with your hypocrisy later.

I want to know why you think "laws that would require employers to verify the legal status of workers they employ" would be beneficial.

[spoon]

there is none as the issues differ in so many ways no matter how you try to link them

[spoon]

perhaps bc I don't blame the worker for coming here to get a better job illegally, but the company knowingly doing the hiring to save money on an illegal cheap labor force

[StanUpshaw]

there is none as the issues differ in so many ways no matter how you try to link them

I'm not linking anything. You brought that up completely on your own.

I only want you to explain your position on an issue. It's quite simple.

[StanUpshaw]

perhaps bc I don't blame the worker for coming here to get a better job illegally, but the company knowingly doing the hiring to save money on an illegal cheap labor force

You don't want to blame them.

You just want to punish them by altogether eliminating their opportunities to find work.

[spoon]

You don't want to blame them.

You just want to punish them by altogether eliminating their opportunities to find work.

or hold the people actually responsible for the draw in the first place

hire legal workers, make illegals use actual channels to become natural or be deported/don't come

if a company is shown to willing hire or look away they get fined...that's quite simple

[StanUpshaw]

or hold the people actually responsible for the draw in the first place

hire legal workers, make illegals use actual channels to become natural or be deported/don't come

if a company is shown to willing hire or look away they get fined...that's quite simple

Hold people responsible...for hiring people...?

:surrender:

[spoon]

Hold people responsible...for hiring people...?

:surrender:

illegally, yes

just as you would if one was to hire a prostitute, buy coke and hire a 8 year old to break coal

[StanUpshaw]

illegally, yes

just as you would if one was to hire a prostitute, buy coke and hire a 8 year old to break coal

So the law is all that matters to you?

[spoon]

So the law is all that matters to you?

did i say so much?

[StanUpshaw]

did i say so much?

You did.

[spoon]

oh that's interesting

[WRESTLINGFAN]

That Buffet rule will take years to pay off


http://www.examiner.com/ny-in-new-york/obama-s-buffet-rule-raises-5-billion-it-will-take-3000-years-to-pay-the-debt

[StanUpshaw]

Pathetic pandering populist propaganda.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

As a libertarian, An issue I disagree with them, is open immigration. You cant have both open and unrestricted immigration combined with a giant welfare state
Illegal aliens who are mostly low skilled of course make lower wages but the amount of social services outweigh any contribution. Also the few who pay income taxes are doing so by committing fraud and identity theft and get back more of a return thru the EITC and child credits etc. Uncontrolled immigration also contributes to the expanding federal government.

[Crispy123]

Pathetic pandering

http://www.unreliablewitness.com/images/panda2.jpg

[hanso]

Walfare, tanif and other assistance has been severely cut going back to the walfare reform days.

The leading cause of bankruptcy continues to be related to medical bills.
But lets keep cutting all assistance while giving hugh tax breaks to the rich and kill any health reform. That should make the econmy flourish.

[StanUpshaw]

As a libertarian, One of the issues I disagree with them is the issue of open immigration. You cant have both open and unrestricted immigration combined with a giant welfare state
Illegal aliens who are mostly low skilled of course make lower wages but the amount of social services outweigh any contribution. Also the few who pay income taxes are doing so by committing fraud and identity theft and get back more of a return thru the EITC and child credits etc. Uncontrolled immigration also contributes to the expanding federal government.

Your "outweigh any contribution" point has been disproved so many times, by economists of every stripe, that one can only assume that your willful ignorance of the facts is the proverbial thin veil used to cover your racial prejudices.

But we've gone down this road so many times, it's not even worth the keystokes.




Let's focus on this instead:

You're confronted with two conflicting forces; and influx of poor illegals, and an ever-increasing burden of entitlement programs.

And in this case, you, "as a libertarian," choose to ferociously fight against freedom. Yes, I know you also oppose the entitlements, but on what other topic do you say "yeah, the welfare state is bad, but since it does exist, we need it to be as financially sound as possible" ?

For example, we spend a shitload of money on Medicare and Medicaid. The obese account for a disproportionate share of spending. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't hear you advocating that we ban sugar and cigarettes in order to lessen the burden. You claim to believe that the individual's freedom of choice is paramount, regardless of how it affects state or federal budgets.

You hypocrite.

[hanso]

http://i.imgur.com/LYMjn.jpg

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Disproven? When the facts are that they are a net drain to society and that they consume more than they contribute and they are not tax payers meaning that they get back more in a refund than they send to the IRS but your mantra of he hates mexicans sounds like a progressive.


Also does someones liberty come at my expense? If they have the freedom to be here I should have the freedom not to babysit them and their extended families.


Instead of wanting the Feds not involved in healthcare let's just manage it better . Sounds like a Romney surrogate

[StanUpshaw]

Disproven? When the facts are that they are a net drain to society and that they consume more than they contribute and they are not tax payers meaning that they get back more in a refund than they send to the IRS but your mantra of he hates mexicans sounds like a progressive.

http://i.imgur.com/JlABU.png
http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/info-fore-0406_frameset.html
http://online.wsj.com/public/article/0,,SB114477669441223067,00.html

Maybe you should actually read some of that Bastiat and Hazlitt you're always claiming you support.



Also does someones liberty come at my expense? If they have the freedom to be here I should have the freedom not to babysit them and their extended families.

All I'm asking you to do is apply consistent logic.

You shouldn't have to babysit immigrants, nor should you have to pay for a fat guy's insulin. But the fact remains that you are forced to pay for both.

When it comes to the fat guy, you say "I disagree with the welfare state, but despite its existence, I believe a person should be free to poison his body if he so chooses, even though those choices would burden the system."
When it comes to immigrants, you say "I disagree with the welfare state, but since it exists, we need to use government force to curtail freedom of movement and the right to sell one's labor; otherwise it would burden the system."

If you can't reconcile those, then you're a hypocrite.


Instead of wanting the Feds not involved in healthcare let's just manage it better . Sounds like a Romney surrogate

I don't know what this means.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Does it really benefit the economy as a whole? If for some how every illegal left the country we would not collapse. States would have more money and resources so that they wouldn't have to borrow billions from the feds. Also the price of tomatoes would not skyrocket to $20 each.


Basteat and Hazlett lived in a time when there wasn't a welfare state . Ayn Rand and Milton Friedman also had writings that there couldn't be open immigration and a welfare state


I'm for someone able to broker his labor for a wage but if that person can't live without government assistance then stay back in his own country


I as an individual can determine who can enter my house as a nation we should have that same sovereignty .


In regards to the fat person eating himself to death if we wouldn't have to nationalize healthcare then the state can have the resources for that.


So you're saying since there's a welfare state let's manage it better , that is what Romney advocates.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Harmful effect on foreign unskilled workers

http://www.fairus.org/issue/immigration-poverty-and-low-wage-earners-the-harmful-effect-of-unskilled-immigrants-on-american-work


Cheap labor isnt so cheap


http://www.cis.org/node/54

[StanUpshaw]

As militant as you are about immigration, you should be at least 7 times more militant over obesity: http://www.rti.org/page.cfm?objectid=4cdb8dc2-6720-4fbf-806a064bb32dd00b

Hypocrite.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

So that includes illegals living in those states.


Now if CA wants to spend billions on Obesity for fat citizens and illegal aliens, let them however they shouldnt come begging to the rest of the country when the money is short for roads and 1st responders

My personal opinion that people should be able to pollute their bodies but have the responsibility for their actions. Rights includes responsibilities

[WRESTLINGFAN]

http://i.imgur.com/LYMjn.jpg

Nice rims on that police truck

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Obamabucks fail



http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/investigators&id=8623276

[Crispy123]

This was the first post in two days???

You have to be shitting me.

[Furtherman]

This was the first post in two days???

You have to be shitting me.

He must have been rocking back and forth staring out the window waiting for the board to come up. He had to tell somebody. All the space on his wall is covered up in Obama hate.

[WRESTLINGFAN]

He must have been rocking back and forth staring out the window waiting for the board to come up. He had to tell somebody. All the space on his wall is covered up in Obama hate.

Conspiracy nut talk

[WRESTLINGFAN]

Obamas latest scheme from his bag of tricks is to spend 52 million on monitoring oil speculation. Dont we already have a CFTC and SEC?


This fucker just wants to throw more money and expect results

[booster11373]

This was the first post in two days???

You have to be shitting me.

He has been posting. It don't matter if the site is up or down or even if his computer is on

[Furtherman]

He has been posting. It don't matter if the site is up or down or even if his computer is on

:laugh: