2011-12 NFL Season

[Kevin]

And oh btw.

You give Peyton 2 weeks of to work on the video of the other teams and he puts up 50+ points on those teams. He would not need a kicker to barley squeeze those games out.

[Snacks]

NE only had a top 5 defense for every one of those 3 SB wins. If he had Indys defense they wouldnt even have won their division. Any one who doesnt think Manning is better or the most important player to any one team in the NFL is retarded. How can this year not be the best example of the argument? Brady gets hurt and the team win 11 of 15 games without him! Manning gets hurt and they are 0-9. Sorry, you can talk all your normal shit about heart and toughness the fact remains NE has been and still is better coached (by miles) had always had better defense and Brady isnt as good as Manning. Brady also didnt start putting up big offensive #s til the last 4 or 5 years when the rules changed and the league as a whole started. Before that he was a 3200-3600 yards a year guy with 22-28 tds. Very good, solid above avg #s but not manning. He also isnt the field general is that Manning is. Manning is like a player coach on the field.

As for players. Manning did make his players. Wayne coming out of college wasnt expected to be much. He might have been the least talked about top wr to ever come out of Miami. When he was drafted he was barely talked about even though he had a great career a the U he wasnt talked about having pro potential like Irvin, Johnson or even Moss and he is having a better career then all of them. Why because of Manning. Dallas Clark? Really he was a great TE and you knew all about him? I bet he is friends with someone you know and you knew the stud he would become?! He was good in college and was a 1st round pick. But remember Indy always has late 1st round picks and takes who they like and need not really the best player available. NE because of their great Coach and GM always seems to have top 10 picks even though they go to the playoffs every year. NE is a much better run team then Indy and it all starts with Belichek.

[Snacks]

And oh btw.

You give Peyton 2 weeks of to work on the video of the other teams and he puts up 50+ points on those teams. He would not need a kicker to barley squeeze those games out.

Shit give Manning a real coaching staff and that NE defense that they had in the early and mid 2000's and Manning has 5 rings and most of those wins are blowouts like SF and Dallas used to have in SBs!

[spoon]

If Plaxico doesn't shoot himself, Eli might have 2Sbs.

What were they 11-1 at the time? Coming off a SB title.

Ifs are so stupid.

Well an if in the actual SB is NOT the same as an if for an entire year and playoffs.

How about this one, If McCree just fell after picking off Brady SD probably wins the SB.

Of this one, If anyone but Norv gets hired as HC in SD, spoon doesn't pine for a new coach for years? Ok, that last one is clearly a FACT!

[spoon]

I can bet that no respected football anaylsyt will ever elevate Brady to the best of all time using the term " if ".

And enough of this crap like Brady won w/ XFL players.

Who the hell were/are Austin Collie, Pierra Garcon, Dallas Clark and Reggie Wayne w/o Manning ?

And w/o the best post season kicker ever ( I'd guess you could call him that ) Brady might not win anything.

Stop. Both are great, in different ways. Oh and respected football analysts CONSTANTLY use ifs, including that very one, in discussing where players line up all-time and or in any conversation.


Finally, those players, especially Clark and Wayne are top flight players playing for the polar opposite in terms of qbs right now, are both starting to wind down their careers and clearly have an awful coach that shows up more now than ever as time and Manning gone have clearly shown.

Hell, Garcon hasn't even been bad this year, in fact he's been great in respect to who is tossing the fucking ball and how often they have/hold on to the ball. Yet Collie and Garcon aren't exactly proven commodities even with Manning bc of one season or two max.

[spoon]

Its not even an argument that Peyton Manning is the best QB of this generation.

This year cemented it.

To say otherwise is just insane.

That's just fucking silly. Indy is just a mess and they had no fucking backup plan clearly. Their coach sucks and Manning helped offset that too bc he thinks he is a coach on the field. To say a guy is the best ever simply bc his team sucks without him is much more insane! As the colts basically had either a 50 year old who sucked when 27 tossing the ball with dspy type vision early in the year. Or a guy who wouldn't start at the football accuracy tent at the local town carnival or fair since Collins went down. Sorry, you are obviously biased bc both are fucking amazing qbs in different ways.

[spoon]

side note, i'd just like to point out that Vick is fucking horrendous when he isn't running. In my opinion he's really not that much better than Tebow. i don't remember seeing him throw a pass over 20 yards that WASN'T intercepted.

I've been saying this since his days in VT. He's a supreme athlete and should have been moved to WR or in the least a slash type role (hate that shit tbh).

Last year was an anomaly I guess, probably bc he was more open to outside direction and lost a lot of what hurt him in the past thinking he could just run around and sling all over the fucking place bc he was Michael Vick. Now after another huge contract, clear starting role and plenty of hype, he's regressed back to his old self. To be honest, it started late last year.

[spoon]

Again with the Ifs.

You and a million others are dead wrong.

The same players Brady had won11 fucking games with Matt Fucking Cassel
Mannings bums ZERO as of now.

Dallas and Reggie have been TERRIBLE without him

Its not even an argument.

What is wrong with you? It's not even an argument? Really Kev?

Brady vs Manning is not even an argument?!

Sorry, Manning has clearly UNDERACHIEVED forever in big moments. Go look up his performances and win loss recs in bowl games, versus Florida and in the playoffs overall. As TS has stated, he has had GREAT supporting casts in the past and even in his sb win he wasn't that good. Like I stated, Manning and Brady are both clearly greats of this gen, but saying the guy with one ring is an easy pick over the guy with three and constantly at the top of their division is nuts. Sure there will be missteps along the way for ANY qb, but your argument lacks any depth to me.

[spoon]

i think its more of Manning being pretty much their entire offense, calling plays at the line etc. he's like a coordinator that plays. Whereas Brady plays in a system that wins. I won't play if's, but Manning is more important to his team, but Brady is the better QB.

To me, this is DEAD ON! Indy had no backup plan to this and clearly the team is dead on arrival for 2011 bc of it, while NE is a system that doesn't always work, but surely isn't so dependent on one player to carry/lead a team. And that's on both their coach AND MANNING. He has a Marino type quality in that it all has to go through him, and having Caldwell as the HC I don't really blame him of late. However, his team is led like a video game from the pocket, versus the rest of the team being fully prepared.

In fact, the defense is a fucking mess now with Indy too Kev, does that prove Manning is the best DC of our generation too?

:wallbash:.

[spoon]

And oh btw.

You give Peyton 2 weeks of to work on the video of the other teams and he puts up 50+ points on those teams. He would not need a kicker to barley squeeze those games out.

No, he usually just loses them!

[Kevin]

Sorry Jay.

Brady has had the better D Better coaching and some really shady goings on in his career.

Manning is the better QB its not an argument.

Nothing you can say can change that in my opinion.

Its agree to disagree

[spoon]

NE only had a top 5 defense for every one of those 3 SB wins. If he had Indys defense they wouldnt even have won their division. Any one who doesnt think Manning is better or the most important player to any one team in the NFL is retarded. How can this year not be the best example of the argument? Brady gets hurt and the team win 11 of 15 games without him! Manning gets hurt and they are 0-9. Sorry, you can talk all your normal shit about heart and toughness the fact remains NE has been and still is better coached (by miles) had always had better defense and Brady isnt as good as Manning. Brady also didnt start putting up big offensive #s til the last 4 or 5 years when the rules changed and the league as a whole started. Before that he was a 3200-3600 yards a year guy with 22-28 tds. Very good, solid above avg #s but not manning. He also isnt the field general is that Manning is. Manning is like a player coach on the field.

As for players. Manning did make his players. Wayne coming out of college wasnt expected to be much. He might have been the least talked about top wr to ever come out of Miami. When he was drafted he was barely talked about even though he had a great career a the U he wasnt talked about having pro potential like Irvin, Johnson or even Moss and he is having a better career then all of them. Why because of Manning. Dallas Clark? Really he was a great TE and you knew all about him? I bet he is friends with someone you know and you knew the stud he would become?! He was good in college and was a 1st round pick. But remember Indy always has late 1st round picks and takes who they like and need not really the best player available. NE because of their great Coach and GM always seems to have top 10 picks even though they go to the playoffs every year. NE is a much better run team then Indy and it all starts with Belichek.

Oh man, these case review points are trivial. I guess by your logic Antonio Gates was made by Brees and Rivers bc he wasn't even drafted out of college right? Or that TEs don't come from all over the map in the NFL to begin with? And guys like Branch aren't clearly better with Brady? Of course all are better with TOP LEVEL qbs, whichever one you speak of, but it's not something that fucking proves said argument bt players.

[spoon]

Sorry Jay.

Brady has had the better D Better coaching and some really shady goings on in his career.

Manning is the better QB its not an argument.

Nothing you can say can change that in my opinion.

Its agree to disagree

When you say it's your opinion, fine. However, you keep saying it can't be argued...which is CLEARLY not true.

For fuck's sake, I think Eli has been better in big games than Peyton over their careers. Does that factor alone make him better, of course not, but it's a very valid point to this argument you say can't happen. Oddly enough, it seems to happen A LOT!

[Kevin]

On a side note.

Mark Sanchez is a terrible QB with a HOF C.

Imagine how bad he is without one!?

He has a HOF Left Tackle too!

[Snoogans]

I've been saying this since his days in VT. He's a supreme athlete and should have been moved to WR or in the least a slash type role (hate that shit tbh).

Last year was an anomaly I guess, probably bc he was more open to outside direction and lost a lot of what hurt him in the past thinking he could just run around and sling all over the fucking place bc he was Michael Vick. Now after another huge contract, clear starting role and plenty of hype, he's regressed back to his old self. To be honest, it started late last year.

thats the saddest part. last year showed, if the guy wasnt such a dickhead, that he actually COULD be an effective, throwing QB. But it also showed Michael Vick doesnt give a fuck, and didnt learn ANY fuckin lessons. He basically played the game and acted the act for the time he had no choice. He wasnt really humbled, just knew what he had to do to get shit back together.

Now his debts are paid, he is paid, and he is Michael fuckin Vick. I bet he starts a cock fighting ring in philly. Shit he probably was already fighting dogs again, or at least going to them. They have them shits ALL OVER philly


What is wrong with you? It's not even an argument? Really Kev?

Brady vs Manning is not even an argument?!

Sorry, Manning has clearly UNDERACHIEVED forever in big moments. Go look up his performances and win loss recs in bowl games, versus Florida and in the playoffs overall. As TS has stated, he has had GREAT supporting casts in the past and even in his sb win he wasn't that good. Like I stated, Manning and Brady are both clearly greats of this gen, but saying the guy with one ring is an easy pick over the guy with three and constantly at the top of their division is nuts. Sure there will be missteps along the way for ANY qb, but your argument lacks any depth to me.

this is sorta a fair point. Using messageboard logic, i think its safe to say the best QB of our generation is Tee Martin.


You cant argue it

[brettmojo]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/3x4DUrMz1Vw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The third Ryan brother wants good ol' #5 back.
Side note, hello Miss Marokotits...

[Snacks]

Oh man, these case review points are trivial. I guess by your logic Antonio Gates was made by Brees and Rivers bc he wasn't even drafted out of college right? Or that TEs don't come from all over the map in the NFL to begin with? And guys like Branch aren't clearly better with Brady? Of course all are better with TOP LEVEL qbs, whichever one you speak of, but it's not something that fucking proves said argument bt players.

Why is everything trivial when its not your argument? It amazes me how you are always right and everyone else is just a moron?! At the end of the day no one can say what they are arguing isnt anything more then opinions. So yes these are all opinions and the same way you think your opinion is right so do others. The facts are Brady has 3 rings which are more then Mannings 1 ring. But Brady also had the help of spygate and we can argue that all day long but the fact remains its much easier to play defense when you know where the ball is going and its much easier to play offense when you know exactly what defensive scheme is called!

Fact NE has better coaching, dont think anyone will argue that. Fact Manning is the most important player to any given team in the league even Brady. Fact Indy has gone 0-9 without Manning and NE went 11-5 without Brady. Fact Indy was shit for 30+ years before Manning with very limited success, actually they were 1 of the worst org in the league prior to Mannings arrival now they are 1 of the best franchises and winning-est over the past 15 years!

We can look at everything and make our opinions but lets not overlook many of the facts of what has happened!

[Snoogans]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/3x4DUrMz1Vw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The third Ryan brother wants good ol' #5 back.
Side note, hello Miss Marokotits...

is that really rob and rex's brother? and why doesnt his name start with R if so

[brettmojo]

is that really rob and rex's brother? and why doesnt his name start with R if so
No I doubt it. He does look a little light to be a triplet.

I love how he's just fucking stewin' in anger before she gets to him.

[Snacks]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/3x4DUrMz1Vw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The third Ryan brother wants good ol' #5 back.
Side note, hello Miss Marokotits...

Any man who takes a regular season loss this serious or actually goes on tv looking like that and acting like that should be embarrassed of themselves. Philly fans really are trashy, classless, drunk dicks!

[weekapaugjz]

The third Ryan brother wants good ol' #5 back.

:grits teeth: a back-up quarterback grrrr :grits teeth:

[Snoogans]

No I doubt it. He does look a little light to be a triplet.

I love how he's just fucking stewin' in anger before she gets to him.

fair point. and if he isnt a triplet, then id have to actually believe Buddy Ryan got laid twice. I dont know. thats tough

[weekapaugjz]

fair point. and if he isnt a triplet, then id have to actually believe Buddy Ryan got laid twice. I dont know. thats tough

:lol:

[weekapaugjz]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/3x4DUrMz1Vw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


that kid in the background has a long, awful life of being a bills fan ahead of him.

:wallbash:

[spoon]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/3x4DUrMz1Vw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The third Ryan brother wants good ol' #5 back.
Side note, hello Miss Marokotits...

Jesus, was that Patton Oswalt?

WTF man, take it easy third favorite.

[spoon]

Why is everything trivial when its not your argument? It amazes me how you are always right and everyone else is just a moron?! At the end of the day no one can say what they are arguing isnt anything more then opinions. So yes these are all opinions and the same way you think your opinion is right so do others. The facts are Brady has 3 rings which are more then Mannings 1 ring. But Brady also had the help of spygate and we can argue that all day long but the fact remains its much easier to play defense when you know where the ball is going and its much easier to play offense when you know exactly what defensive scheme is called!

Fact NE has better coaching, dont think anyone will argue that. Fact Manning is the most important player to any given team in the league even Brady. Fact Indy has gone 0-9 without Manning and NE went 11-5 without Brady. Fact Indy was shit for 30+ years before Manning with very limited success, actually they were 1 of the worst org in the league prior to Mannings arrival now they are 1 of the best franchises and winning-est over the past 15 years!

We can look at everything and make our opinions but lets not overlook many of the facts of what has happened!

So when someone on your end of the discussion says it's not acceptable to argue for Brady, I'm the one who is off and rigid in my stance?! First off, I haven't really taken either side if you actually READ my posts, I just posted to prove there is plenty to this argument on both sides.

And your case rundown is myopic and trivial bc it's picking and choosing small parts versus overall long term results and samples. One can make or break arguments like those you made on either side, so it's worthless and short-sighted at best in an effort to falsely prove one's pseudo point.

Not once did I call anyone a moron, in fact it was you and Kev saying anyone who sees it differently has to be retarded. You might want to attack your own posts and not be so fucking pussy about a differing OPINION. Bottom line Snacks, it's easy to argue for either side and neither are a CLEAR best option unless you pigeon hole the data toward a category that fits your man.

[sailor]

So, bill b is always talked about as a great talent evaluator/drafter and NE always has top picks from other teams, but now some people are saying they were a team of bums? How does this mesh?

[TjM]

God bless Billy B

"37 points on the best D in the league? SUCK MY DICK!"

Fuck Rex Ryan and fuck every Jets fan out there including Ice-T.

[spoon]

fair point. and if he isnt a triplet, then id have to actually believe Buddy Ryan got laid twice. I dont know. thats tough

let's just hope this guy went to Sandusky's football camp as a kid

[TjM]

So, bill b is always talked about as a great talent evaluator/drafter and NE always has top picks from other teams, but now some people are saying they were a team of bums? How does this mesh?

People are fucking idiots. They look at names. Year in year out they are a 1-3 seed. I will take that over Rex and the "AFC Championship Participation 2 Years in a Row" trophy

[weekapaugjz]

Fuck Rex Ryan and fuck every Jets fan out there including Ice-T.

:thumbup:

[Snoogans]

So, bill b is always talked about as a great talent evaluator/drafter and NE always has top picks from other teams, but now some people are saying they were a team of bums? How does this mesh?

maybe the real talent evaluators were Pioli and Dimitov. Although, lookin at KC, you sure wouldnt know it

[Snoogans]

God bless Billy B

"37 points on the best D in the league? SUCK MY DICK!"

Fuck Rex Ryan and fuck every Jets fan out there including Ice-T.

did you see the clip of rex before halftime? some fan yelled at him walkin into the tunnel "rex, bill bellechick is better than you" and rex looks and goes "Shut the fuck up" and never breaks stride

[spoon]

wow, this just in

the soaring texans lose qb matt schaub for several weeks with a "significant" foot injury



UNREAL! They finally turn the corner in the south and afc for that matter and this happens. This team might be cursed, bc in step the best qb in the league from USC, Matt Leinart! Well at least better than Sanchez.

[Snacks]

So when someone on your end of the ARGUMENT I SAID should be in play, says it's not acceptable to argue for Brady, I'm the one who is off?! And your case rundown is myopic and trivial bc it's picking and choosing small parts versus overall long term results and samples. One can make or break arguments like those you made on either side, so it's worthless and short-sighted at best in an effort to falsely prove one's pseudo point.

Not once did I call anyone a moron, in fact it was you and Kev saying anyone who sees it differently has to be retarded. You might want to attack your own posts and not be so fucking pussy about a differing OPINION. Bottom line Snacks, it's easy to argue for either side and neither are a CLEAR best option unless you pigeon hole the data toward a category that fits your man.

the difference is the other side of the argument is 1 stat that always comes up and its the 1 stat that cant be the deciding fact. SB Wins. They are the reason you play the game but the argument isnt about who won more its who is the better player. So yes its an opinion base argument that no one can ever win but when the other side only uses the 1 stat and thats SB wins it kind of helps the other sides argument because everyone knows that football is a team sport and coaching is very important. If the only argument for Brady is he has 3 rings then I dont think the other arguments for Manning can be trivial!

Once again Brady has the rings but like many have said before he won those 3 rings on a team that was very defensive minded, very well coached and not to mention they barley won all 3 even with the knowledge that they cheated! Think about it, if they didnt cheat would they have any? Wouldnt Brady be a poor mans Jim Kelly? Those 3 point victories become 2 or 3 tds losses if not for knowing what the other team was doing before they did it? Since spygate Brady who has become a better QB (btw so has the entire league with all the rule changes) has won no rings.

Im not saying Brady isnt good but Im personally tired of everyone blowing him when imo he isnt one of the top 5 all time QBs. Without a ring Manning still would have gone down as a top 5 QB at the very least top 10. Without a ring Brady isnt even mentioned. Can we agree on that?

[spoon]

did you see the clip of rex before halftime? some fan yelled at him walkin into the tunnel "rex, bill bellechick is better than you" and rex looks and goes "Shut the fuck up" and never breaks stride

I don't blame him/would have said the same thing. Although, I also would have been the fan heckling that fat fuck too.

[JimBeam]

Did somebody really just use a colege argument to say Brady was better than Manning ?

That might be worse than the " if " logic.

A guy that was probably the best college QB ever and a guy that didn't even start his entire career ?

Not many people beat those Florida teams. Even Spurrier says it wasn't Mannings fault. He gave them a 20+ lead in one of those games I believe.

Oh yeah and I forgot how great all the players that left Manning were.

And Edgerin James was what after he left Indy ?

Reggie Wayne was damn near an after thought in that offense until Harriosn left.

And you win 3 SBs all by 3 points all needing a kicker to win it and that's an anomally ? Not a valid part of the game ?

3 times isn't a coincidence. It's a habit.

The thing is Manning is the better Quarterback. He's the better passer, better numbers, better at the line. That's what a QB is.

If you want to say that Brady is a better QB that won it all then fine, there's no argument.

But that takes into consideration his entire team not him being the better QB.

Manning's teams won 12+ games for what like 5 years ( or is it 8 ) ?

So then he goes down and they don't win even 1 ?

That's more than just a lack of heart and a shoddy defense. That's not having the best player out there.

And again nobody has countered the argument that a HS QB, who never started in college, won 11 games with essentailly Bardy's same team.

How about this for an " if ".

If Kurt Warner throws even 1 more TD, at any point in that game, the Rams win the Super Bowl and not the Patriots.

But I guess the " ifs " only work as a positive for Brady.

[TjM]

Sorry

Im just sick of hearing the media here. You would think the Jets are the greatest fucking team ever and the Pats are in the running for Andrew Luck. I want them to win the SB just to stick it to these fuckers at this point. I am getting no joy out of this season. Every win is the other teams fault (Well Gaily fucked up with the coaching, The Jets shot themselves in the foot.) Every loss is proof they suck "Ha see! Pittsburg exposed em!!!" 18-1 is the worst fucking thing to happen to this team. These fuckers now expect no less than perfection and an apoligy

[TjM]

Did somebody really just use a colege argument to say Brady was better than Manning ?

That might be worse than the " if " logic.

A guy that was probably the best college QB ever and a guy that didn't even start his entire career ?

Not many people beat those Florida teams. Even Spurrier says it wasn't Mannings fault. He gave them a 20+ lead in one of those games I believe.

Oh yeah and I forgot how great all the players that left Manning were.

And Edgerin James was what after he left Indy ?

Reggie Wayne was damn near an after thought in that offense until Harriosn left.

And you win 3 SBs all by 3 points all needing a kicker to win it and that's an anomally ? Not a valid part of the game ?

3 times isn't a coincidence. It's a habit.

The thing is Manning is the better Quarterback. He's the better passer, better numbers, better at the line. That's what a QB is.

If you want to say that Brady is a better QB that won it all then fine, there's no argument.

But that takes into consideration his entire team not him being the better QB.

Manning's teams won 12+ games for what like 5 years ( or is it 8 ) ?

So then he goes down and they don't win even 1 ?

That's more than just a lack of heart and a shoddy defense. That's not having the best player out there.

And again nobody has countered the argument that a HS QB, who never started in college, won 11 games with essentailly Bardy's same team.

How about this for an " if ".

If Kurt Warner throws even 1 more TD, at any point in that game, the Rams win the Super Bowl and not the Patriots.

But I guess the " ifs " only work as a positive for Brady.

It's Montana Marino all over. They are both good. Not Marinos fault Shula did not belive in a running game. Not Mannings fault he had shitty D

[Snacks]

It's Montana Marino all over. They are both good. Not Marinos fault Shula did not belive in a running game. Not Mannings fault he had shitty D

I agree and not with the Marino thing. Take Marino out of the argument. Montana had the greatest team ever put together in the history of the league. His teams had great WRs, RB's, some of the best defenses in that era and one of the greatest minds to ever coach who also changed the way the league was played.

[Snoogans]

Tee Martin

[spoon]

the difference is the other side of the argument is 1 stat that always comes up and its the 1 stat that cant be the deciding fact. SB Wins. They are the reason you play the game but the argument isnt about who won more its who is the better player. So yes its an opinion base argument that no one can ever win but when the other side only uses the 1 stat and thats SB wins it kind of helps the other sides argument because everyone knows that football is a team sport and coaching is very important. If the only argument for Brady is he has 3 rings then I dont think the other arguments for Manning can be trivial!

Once again Brady has the rings but like many have said before he won those 3 rings on a team that was very defensive minded, very well coached and not to mention they barley won all 3 even with the knowledge that they cheated! Think about it, if they didnt cheat would they have any? Wouldnt Brady be a poor mans Jim Kelly? Those 3 point victories become 2 or 3 tds losses if not for knowing what the other team was doing before they did it? Since spygate Brady who has become a better QB (btw so has the entire league with all the rule changes) has won no rings.

Im not saying Brady isnt good but Im personally tired of everyone blowing him when imo he isnt one of the top 5 all time QBs. Without a ring Manning still would have gone down as a top 5 QB at the very least top 10. Without a ring Brady isnt even mentioned. Can we agree on that?

Not really no, bc he's done much more and is clearly a franchise qb that helped transform a perennial shit team into a force for over a decade (bad minus a few years in the past with Parcels). If you think 3 rings is all Brady has then you aren't reading or paying attention. Both qbs are field generals which employ different tactics, use different styles and value different things on the field to similar ends. Both qbs have DOMINATED their division, have had HUGE offensive years statistically, have won SBs and played on stacked and weaker teams and still usually won said divisions.

I see arguments for both sides pending on what people value more in terms of factors themselves, and being that you're a Marino fan of the past Snacks, it's no surprise you lean or fall into Manning's camp. However, it's not that simple. And let's not forget while Caldwell may suck as Indy's HC (awful college HC record) and has leaned on Manning since his days coming to Indy as the qb coach, Indy had Mora and Dungy for the bulk of his career (pre-2009).

Oh and here, another reason it CAN be argued...head to head over their careers from wiki:

The Patriots owned the beginning of the series, defeating the Colts in six consecutive contests, including the 2003 AFC Championship game and a 2004 AFC Divisional game. The Colts won the next three matches, notching two regular season victories and a win in the 2006 AFC Championship game on the way to their win in Super Bowl XLI. On November 4, 2007 the Patriots defeated the Colts 24–20; in the next matchup, on November 2, 2008, the Colts won 18–15 in a game that was one of the reasons the Patriots failed to make the playoffs; in the 2009 meeting, the Colts staged a spirited comeback to beat the Patriots 35–34; in the most recent 2010 game, the Colts almost staged another comeback, pulling within 31–28 after trailing 31–14 in the fourth quarter, but fell short due to a Patriots interception of a Manning pass late in the game. The nature of this rivalry is ironic because while the Colts and Patriots were division rivals from 1970 to 2001, it did not become prominent in league circles until after Indianapolis was relocated into the AFC South.

[spoon]

And Edgerin James was what after he left Indy ?



Closing in on 30 and slowing down like most rbs, especially those that left a top flight qb to go to ARIZONA!? For the first two years he was pretty much the same players on a much shittier team, then he got real old as rbs do. LT isn't shitty now bc he's on the Jets, it's bc he's almost done and plays a different role. Again, trivial arguments...especially since most would expect players to have a downturn after leaving either TOP LEVEL qb. Hence the argument.


Year Team G ATT Yards AVG LG TD
1999 IND 16 369 1,553 4.2 72 13
2000 IND 16 387 1,709 4.4 30 13
2001 IND 6 151 662 4.4 29 3
2002 IND 14 277 989 3.6 20 2
2003 IND 13 310 1,259 4.1 43 11
2004 IND 16 334 1,548 4.6 40 9
2005 IND 15 360 1,506 4.2 33 13
2006 ARI 16 337 1,159 3.4 18 6
2007 ARI 16 324 1,222 3.8 27 7
2008 ARI 13 133 514 3.9 35 3
2009 SEA 6 46 125 2.7 10 0
Tot. N/A 148 3,028 12,246 4.0 72 80

[spoon]

It's Montana Marino all over. They are both good. Not Marinos fault Shula did not belive in a running game. Not Mannings fault he had shitty D

well let's be honest, marino wouldn't really hand off, bc Shula had plenty of years where he was fine calling runs and actually won something that way

[spoon]

Tee Martin

yah, this might be the most logical stance in this thread outside of anyone who states both are/were awesome in their own right

[Snacks]

Not really no, bc he's done much more and is clearly a franchise qb that helped transform a perennial shit team into a force for over a decade (bad minus a few years in the past with Parcels). If you think 3 rings is all Brady has then you aren't reading or paying attention. Both qbs are field generals which employ different tactics, use different styles and value different things on the field to similar ends. Both qbs have DOMINATED their division, have had HUGE offensive years statistically, have won SBs and played on stacked and weaker teams and still usually won said divisions.

I see arguments for both sides pending on what people value more in terms of factors themselves, and being that you're a Marino fan of the past Snacks, it's no surprise you lean or fall into Manning's camp. However, it's not that simple. And let's not forget while Caldwell may suck as Indy's HC (awful college HC record) and has leaned on Manning since his days coming to Indy as the qb coach, Indy had Mora and Dungy for the bulk of his career (pre-2009).

Oh and here, another reason it CAN be argued...head to head over their careers from wiki:

I said Brady before the rule changes (last 3-5 years) wasnt much more then that, yes but since he has put up great numbers but so has many QBs in the league. Look at what Brees has done the past 4 years. I loved Brees in colelge and in SD but the guy has become a Hall of famer partially due to the rule changes. He has now thrown for 5000 yards (after this year it will be twice and he will break Marinos record).

As for Dungy, to me hes is a glorified Caldwell. I think he has no balls and is just as passive as Caldwell with no toughness. I have said all along Dungy is overrated and imo proof is TB. TB was good and Dungy built that team just like Indy but he couldnt get them over the hump. His lack of heart or toughness or balls or whatever you want to call it is shown in how his players played. The very next year after they fire Dungy they win the SB and I think a lot had to do with Gruden. He won a SB with the exact same team. They had fire and they played to win not afraid like Dungy seems to do. Caldwell wasnt the only one to back off and play pussy, Dungy did it every year too. Manning has fire in his belly and imo Dungy and now Caldwell held him back.

As for why I like Manning it has nothing to do with Marino. Marino was the best passer in the leagues history an opinion but 1 that most people agree with. But I hated Manning in college but have grown to love his game since watching him play in the NFL. To me the greatest all around QB ever was Elway we can argue that later but Manning has surpassed him in my opinion (he may need to come back from this injury and give me 2 more good years first). I look at the enitre package when I give my opinion on who I think is the greatest. Its not SB, or stats or team its everything and to me Elway and Manning deserve are the 2 best.


...and then Marino of course!!!

[Snacks]

The Patriots owned the beginning of the series, defeating the Colts in six consecutive contests, including the 2003 AFC Championship game and a 2004 AFC Divisional game. The Colts won the next three matches, notching two regular season victories and a win in the 2006 AFC Championship game on the way to their win in Super Bowl XLI. On November 4, 2007 the Patriots defeated the Colts 24–20; in the next matchup, on November 2, 2008, the Colts won 18–15 in a game that was one of the reasons the Patriots failed to make the playoffs; in the 2009 meeting, the Colts staged a spirited comeback to beat the Patriots 35–34; in the most recent 2010 game, the Colts almost staged another comeback, pulling within 31–28 after trailing 31–14 in the fourth quarter, but fell short due to a Patriots interception of a Manning pass late in the game. The nature of this rivalry is ironic because while the Colts and Patriots were division rivals from 1970 to 2001, it did not become prominent in league circles until after Indianapolis was relocated into the AFC South.

As for this, remember when NE owned Indy it was when they were cheating during those years! Remember it came out that it wasnt just the SB they cheated during it was the regular season for like 3 or 4 years in the early to mid 2000s

[TjM]

As for this, remember when NE owned Indy it was when they were cheating during those years! Remember it came out that it wasnt just the SB they cheated during it was the regular season for like 3 or 4 years in the early to mid 2000s

Yep no one ever pulled stealing signals before. Surprised they lost in 06 and 05 and 02 since stealing signals guarantees a SB win.

At least it gave butt hurt cunts a reason to invalidate everything they did

[spoon]

Did somebody really just use a colege argument to say Brady was better than Manning ?

yes, it was to point out how manning has fared in "big games" over his CAREER. It's a point, one of many that can be made in both directions and not worse than an if, based in fact. Sure Brady didn't play in college, but would you argue he probably could have been ok at it if given the nod. It's not the first time a backup was the better qb in the end on any level.

That might be worse than the " if " logic.

A guy that was probably the best college QB ever and a guy that didn't even start his entire career ?

Not many people beat those Florida teams. Even Spurrier says it wasn't Mannings fault. He gave them a 20+ lead in one of those games I believe.

So it's ok to use a guy's OPINION that failed in the pros over a player's later stats not give a shot in college to start? So just toss out Manning's record based on this Spurrier opinion and missing stats/opportunity for Brady, got it.

Oh yeah and I forgot how great all the players that left Manning were.

And Edgerin James was what after he left Indy ?

Trivial and covered already.

Reggie Wayne was damn near an after thought in that offense until Harriosn left.

That's what happens when you're not a starter and behind a legend at the time. Wayne got in when ready.

And you win 3 SBs all by 3 points all needing a kicker to win it and that's an anomally ? Not a valid part of the game ?

3 times isn't a coincidence. It's a habit.

What habit is that? Putting your team in positions to win? This argument might be the most ludicrous I've seen yet. By the way, guess who had 3 fgs in Indy's SB win, yah, Adam Vinatieri. Not to mention Indy's d wrapped up the game with a 56 yard pick 6 as the Bears were driving down only 22-17 (9 pts on fgs)

The thing is Manning is the better Quarterback. He's the better passer, better numbers, better at the line. That's what a QB is.

Is that so, I'll cover this soon too.

If you want to say that Brady is a better QB that won it all then fine, there's no argument.

But that takes into consideration his entire team not him being the better QB.

Agreed on the team factor, but that's why I didn't side one way or the other clearly.

Manning's teams won 12+ games for what like 5 years ( or is it 8 ) ?

So then he goes down and they don't win even 1 ?

That's more than just a lack of heart and a shoddy defense. That's not having the best player out there.

yes, their best player...but these days it's bc he's also the only guy who can run this offense as it's set up and they were clearly left with so little they went out and tapped old man Collins until his broke a hip walking in the nursing home. I covered this already too.

And again nobody has countered the argument that a HS QB, who never started in college, won 11 games with essentailly Bardy's same team.

HS qb? didn't that guy just have a great season in KC? Oh and I did cover this after Newport King made some GREAT points.

How about this for an " if ".

If Kurt Warner throws even 1 more TD, at any point in that game, the Rams win the Super Bowl and not the Patriots.

But I guess the " ifs " only work as a positive for Brady.

No they don't, and not one person made that stupid an argument in any direction.


So much to dissect I just added my comments in red.

[spoon]

I said Brady before the rule changes (last 3-5 years) wasnt much more then that, yes but since he has put up great numbers but so has many QBs in the league. Look at what Brees has done the past 4 years. I loved Brees in colelge and in SD but the guy has become a Hall of famer partially due to the rule changes. He has now thrown for 5000 yards (after this year it will be twice and he will break Marinos record).

As for Dungy, to me hes is a glorified Caldwell. I think he has no balls and is just as passive as Caldwell with no toughness. I have said all along Dungy is overrated and imo proof is TB. TB was good and Dungy built that team just like Indy but he couldnt get them over the hump. His lack of heart or toughness or balls or whatever you want to call it is shown in how his players played. The very next year after they fire Dungy they win the SB and I think a lot had to do with Gruden. He won a SB with the exact same team. They had fire and they played to win not afraid like Dungy seems to do. Caldwell wasnt the only one to back off and play pussy, Dungy did it every year too. Manning has fire in his belly and imo Dungy and now Caldwell held him back.

As for why I like Manning it has nothing to do with Marino. Marino was the best passer in the leagues history an opinion but 1 that most people agree with. But I hated Manning in college but have grown to love his game since watching him play in the NFL. To me the greatest all around QB ever was Elway we can argue that later but Manning has surpassed him in my opinion (he may need to come back from this injury and give me 2 more good years first). I look at the enitre package when I give my opinion on who I think is the greatest. Its not SB, or stats or team its everything and to me Elway and Manning deserve are the 2 best.


...and then Marino of course!!!

The rule changes have helped all qbs including Manning. In fact, they helped him arguably more than any other qb bc of how often he throws per year versus most others.

Also, Brees is HOF considered bc he's been a top flight (compared to qbs of his era no matter what the rules) for years and won a Super Bowl in shitty NO. He, like Brady and Manning transformed perennial shit teams to yearly SB contenders and division champs. Sure it's to a somewhat lesser extent with Brees, but he can surely add some noise to this argument with the time he has left.

[spoon]

As for this, remember when NE owned Indy it was when they were cheating during those years! Remember it came out that it wasnt just the SB they cheated during it was the regular season for like 3 or 4 years in the early to mid 2000s

so then the last three games after this the dif in score was 3, 1 and 3 pts

regardless of what team won, this isn't another argument for an ARGUMENT on said qb superiority?

[spoon]

Yep no one ever pulled stealing signals before. Surprised they lost in 06 and 05 and 02 since stealing signals guarantees a SB win.

At least it gave butt hurt cunts a reason to invalidate everything they did

Good point too. Plenty have all but admitted it happens with the majority of teams in the past for a LONG time. Not all, but most and it was just part of the league. It's not an excuse bc it's obvious SD wasn't one of them unless they are fucking worse than I thought!

FIRE NORV!

[Snacks]

Yep no one ever pulled stealing signals before. Surprised they lost in 06 and 05 and 02 since stealing signals guarantees a SB win.

At least it gave butt hurt cunts a reason to invalidate everything they did

They won close games by last second fg's so yes that helped them. When you know what the other team is doing and where they will be lined up and the routes they are taking, yes it makes it much easier. Sorry if you cant see that!

[Snacks]

The rule changes have helped all qbs including Manning. In fact, they helped him arguably more than any other qb bc of how often he throws per year versus most others.

Also, Brees is HOF considered bc he's been a top flight (compared to qbs of his era no matter what the rules) for years and won a Super Bowl in shitty NO. He, like Brady and Manning transformed perennial shit teams to yearly SB contenders and division champs. Sure it's to a somewhat lesser extent with Brees, but he can surely add some noise to this argument with the time he has left.

yet his stats have stayed in line throughout his career while everyone elses has gone up?!

[spoon]

yes and no, as and other factors play into this as well snacks & it's doesn't really break down as you claim

manning teams have pretty much always been throw first, run light

while NE has gone through changes based on their talent at the rb position. this is part of why one can argue BB has been a better coach than most Peyton has had over his career.

Not to mention by Brady's second year, he was pretty much putting up 4,000 yards and 20+ tds every year. Pretty similar to Peyton overall, in fact, for their careers Manning has a 94.9 QB Rating and Brady comes in at 95.7.

Overall stats aren't fair yet, as after this year Manning will have ~ 3 years more of a sample size as he started at the position 3 years earlier and Brady missed all of 2008. Still, they are pretty much on similar tracks in terms of stats overall, with Manning being a tough higher in yards which is to be expected with their pass to run ratio. Different means (slightly) to similar means/winning.

Quite simply, your statement that Brady suddenly changed isn't so. The only stat that did was tds in that monster year with Moss and the undefeated run (similar to 04 for Manning). I think we can all understand that's not normal, unless your name is Rodgers right now!

[weekapaugjz]

damn. nice punt return for TD.

[Kevin]

Anyone who watches Aaron Rogers play and does not think he is the best in the game right now is clearly not paying attention.

[newport king]

Is he doing the discount double check yet?

[cougarjake13]

Closing in on 30 and slowing down like most rbs, especially those that left a top flight qb to go to ARIZONA!? For the first two years he was pretty much the same players on a much shittier team, then he got real old as rbs do. LT isn't shitty now bc he's on the Jets, it's bc he's almost done and plays a different role. Again, trivial arguments...especially since most would expect players to have a downturn after leaving either TOP LEVEL qb. Hence the argument.


Year Team G ATT Yards AVG LG TD
1999 IND 16 369 1,553 4.2 72 13
2000 IND 16 387 1,709 4.4 30 13
2001 IND 6 151 662 4.4 29 3
2002 IND 14 277 989 3.6 20 2
2003 IND 13 310 1,259 4.1 43 11
2004 IND 16 334 1,548 4.6 40 9
2005 IND 15 360 1,506 4.2 33 13
2006 ARI 16 337 1,159 3.4 18 6
2007 ARI 16 324 1,222 3.8 27 7
2008 ARI 13 133 514 3.9 35 3
2009 SEA 6 46 125 2.7 10 0
Tot. N/A 148 3,028 12,246 4.0 72 80



i totally dont even remember him goin to seattle

[epo]

Anyone who watches Aaron Rogers play and does not think he is the best in the game right now is clearly not paying attention.

It's just fun for me to watch.

[Earlshog]

i totally dont even remember him goin to seattle

wasn't much worth remembering

[cougarjake13]

wasn't much worth remembering

parently not

[Kevin]

It's just fun for me to watch.

I would imagine.

Its fun for me and its not my team and I know my overrated D would get destroyed by him.

[PapaBear]

I think GB just might cover the spread. DAMMIT!

[Snacks]

Rodgers might have the best QB rating and highest completion % along with most tds to int ratio over an entire season ever. Hes over 130 QB rating, 72% comp and right now he already has 28 td to 3 ints. What a fucking season this is!

[epo]

I think GB just might cover the spread. DAMMIT!

They tried to do the over by themselves.

[TripleSkeet]

Again with the Ifs.

You and a million others are dead wrong.

The same players Brady had won11 fucking games with Matt Fucking Cassel
Mannings bums ZERO as of now.

Dallas and Reggie have been TERRIBLE without him

Its not even an argument.

Maybe its also because Mannings backup sucks a dick? You think if they draft Luck this year and Manning goes down again they go another 0-16? No way. Cassel went and got a starting job in the NFL. I dont see that happening for Curtis Painter anytome soon.

There are definitely QBs that benefit from the system, but Brady isnt one of them. The guy is usually deadly accurate, and when the games on the line hes ice. Hes not Trent Dilfer or Brad Johnson for christs sake.

Also, I will bet anyone right now, anything they want, that Brady will be a first ballot HOFer.

[TripleSkeet]

It's just fun for me to watch.

Im jealous. Its so much more fun to watch your team when they have a high powered offense.

[Snacks]

Maybe its also because Mannings backup sucks a dick? You think if they draft Luck this year and Manning goes down again they go another 0-16? No way. Cassel went and got a starting job in the NFL. I dont see that happening for Curtis Painter anytome soon.

There are definitely QBs that benefit from the system, but Brady isnt one of them. The guy is usually deadly accurate, and when the games on the line hes ice. Hes not Trent Dilfer or Brad Johnson for christs sake.

Also, I will bet anyone right now, anything they want, that Brady will be a first ballot HOFer.

You keep talking about Cassel like he was a hot commodity. The guy only made NE because of Belichek. He never even started in college and hadnt played since he was in high school. The reason he got another job was because he did so well that 1 season he replaced Brady. If he wouldnt even have been picked up or the back up on any other team if it werent for his 1 season he played for Brady. Painter does suck but at least he started in college. If Cassel went 0-9 he wouldnt have gone to KC which by the way he went to the team run by 1 of the guys that drafted him with Belichek!

Of course Brady is first ballot hall of famer. They said that after he won his 3rd ring because multiple championships get you in. Do you think without 3 rings Aikman is in the hall? No hes not so your 1st ballot means nothing in the argument against Manning. Manning was 1st ballot before a ring and without a ring.

[Kevin]

Maybe its also because Mannings backup sucks a dick? You think if they draft Luck this year and Manning goes down again they go another 0-16? No way. Cassel went and got a starting job in the NFL. I dont see that happening for Curtis Painter anytome soon.

There are definitely QBs that benefit from the system, but Brady isnt one of them. The guy is usually deadly accurate, and when the games on the line hes ice. Hes not Trent Dilfer or Brad Johnson for christs sake.

Also, I will bet anyone right now, anything they want, that Brady will be a first ballot HOFer.

No one is disputing that he is a Mangold right now.

He is just not Peyton Manning..

[TripleSkeet]

Shit give Manning a real coaching staff and that NE defense that they had in the early and mid 2000's and Manning has 5 rings and most of those wins are blowouts like SF and Dallas used to have in SBs!

LMAO. You criticize me for using an IF when talking about a last second, miracle catch that a guy caught on his helmet. One that if dropped ended the Super Bowl, gave Brady his ring, and his 19-0 season (that happened somehow AFTER the cheating, maybe they used psychics) then use the most gigantic IF on Earth giving Manning not only a whole new coach, but an entire new defense and 4 extra rings. Im literally laughing at this right now.

Newport King hit the nail right on the head by the way.

[TripleSkeet]

You keep talking about Cassel like he was a hot commodity. The guy only made NE because of Belichek. He never even started in college and hadnt played since he was in high school. The reason he got another job was because he did so well that 1 season he replaced Brady. If he wouldnt even have been picked up or the back up on any other team if it werent for his 1 season he played for Brady. Painter does suck but at least he started in college. If Cassel went 0-9 he wouldnt have gone to KC which by the way he went to the team run by 1 of the guys that drafted him with Belichek!

Of course Brady is first ballot hall of famer. They said that after he won his 3rd ring because multiple championships get you in. Do you think without 3 rings Aikman is in the hall? No hes not so your 1st ballot means nothing in the argument against Manning. Manning was 1st ballot before a ring and without a ring.

I think at this point its pretty safe to say Bellichick has a talent for finding hidden gems for backup QBs.

Also, that 1st ballot HOF comment was in response to someone that said he wouldnt get in on the first ballot. Im too lazy to go back and see who said it.

[Snacks]

LMAO. You criticize me for using an IF when talking about a last second, miracle catch that a guy caught on his helmet. One that if dropped ended the Super Bowl, gave Brady his ring, and his 19-0 season (that happened somehow AFTER the cheating, maybe they used psychics) then use the most gigantic IF on Earth giving Manning not only a whole new coach, but an entire new defense and 4 extra rings. Im literally laughing at this right now.

Newport King hit the nail right on the head by the way.

I dont recall being the one to say anything about your "if" statements but whatever!

[spoon]

No one is disputing that he is a Mangold right now.

He is just not Peyton Manning..

HE'S A MANGOLD! HAHAAHHahahahaha!

You've had some awful lines of late, but that one cracks me up. I'll be sure to abuse it from here on out.

As in Gates is a surefire Mangold too!

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[spoon]

I think at this point its pretty safe to say Bellichick has a talent for finding hidden gems for backup QBs.

Also, that 1st ballot HOF comment was in response to someone that said he wouldnt get in on the first ballot. Im too lazy to go back and see who said it.

Don't limit his abilities like that, Bill B has a talent for finding good qbs overall...not backups as you can see by Cassel and Brady. The fact they hardly played in college doesn't mean anything bc they've both proven to be NFL qbs. Also, you don't make the move to get Cassel as kc and his old coach did if you don't believe in the guy. In fact, who better to know what he can do. Is he another Brady, of course not. But KC hasn't had the weapons on O that NE has had for years.

[Snacks]

Don't limit his abilities like that, Bill B has a talent for finding good qbs overall...not backups as you can see by Cassel and Brady. The fact they hardly played in college doesn't mean anything bc they've both proven to be NFL qbs. Also, you don't make the move to get Cassel as kc and his old coach did if you don't believe in the guy. In fact, who better to know what he can do. Is he another Brady, of course not. But KC hasn't had the weapons on O that NE has had for years.

Brady was a 2 year starter at Michigan, he played plenty but at 1 time he was 7th on the depth charts!

[spoon]

Brady was a 2 year starter at Michigan, he played plenty but at 1 time he was 7th on the depth charts!

so what does that prove?

Michigan fucked up for 2 years probably, or he needed to mature/develop when younger? I'm not getting what that does to hurt his standing in the NFL echelon of qbs.

[Snacks]

so what does that prove?

Michigan fucked up for 2 years probably, or he needed to mature/develop when younger? I'm not getting what that does to hurt his standing in the NFL echelon of qbs.

It doesnt Im just fixing your previous post where it sounded like you were saying he along with Cassell didnt play much in college.

[TripleSkeet]

I dont recall being the one to say anything about your "if" statements but whatever!

Maybe I keep getting you confused with Kevin. I dont know why but I do that alot. Sorry.

[Kevin]

Maybe I keep getting you confused with Kevin. I dont know why but I do that alot. Sorry.

1: HOW DARE YOU

2: It Jim beam...

You really did Andy Reid that one..

[Snoogans]

am i the only one who thinks Ken O'Brien was the best QB ever?

[TripleSkeet]

1: HOW DARE YOU

2: It Jim beam...

You really did Andy Reid that one..

LOL I said SORRY!

[Snoogans]

1: HOW DARE YOU

2: It Jim beam...

You really did Andy Reid that one..

http://seriouslyryan.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/andyreid.jpg?w=510&h=391

[Kevin]

http://seriouslyryan.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/andyreid.jpg?w=510&h=391

Maybe thats why Andy is so terrible at clock management, he is thinking of kids.

[epo]

am i the only one who thinks Ken O'Brien was the best QB ever?

The fact that he was never put into the Manigold Hall of Fame is a travesty.

[Snoogans]

The fact that he was never put into the Manigold Hall of Fame is a travesty.

man, imagine what his stats would been with the Golden Child playin center for him

[cougarjake13]

am i the only one who thinks Ken O'Brien was the best QB ever?

i know pat ryan and he was no pat ryan

[spoon]

:laugh:
:lol:

this thread is first ballot now

[spoon]

The San Diego Chargers placed Pro Bowl left guard Kris Dielman on season-ending injured reserve Wednesday due to the lingering effects of a concussion sustained Oct. 23 at the New York Jets.

He originally was expected to miss two games following the concussion and a grand mal seizure suffered on the plane ride home.

The promise of playing seven more games without Dielman was a disappointment to the entire team, which must find a way to continue without one of its best players.

"Kris Dielman is not only the heart and soul of that position group, but of the entire team as well," coach Norv Turner said. "He brings so much more than a physical presence to the field. We're going to miss him during this period and we can't wait until he's completely healthy and can get out and play again."

Wow did they help make this injury WAY worse and show just how fucked up this team is overall right now. The whole fucking team is either injured or lost.

[hanso]

Wow did they help make this injury WAY worse and show just how fucked up this team is overall right now. The whole fucking team is either injured or lost.

Looks like I'm getting Rivers in a trade all is well now.

[spoon]

Looks like I'm getting Rivers in a trade all is well now.

what's the deal?

[hanso]

what's the deal?

A WR tell you more when it goes through. It's what the guy wanted so I offered up.

[Snoogans]

am i the only one who cant wait for this game tonight? Its going to be some EPIC shit


literally

[spoon]

sanchez vs tebow


the only problem is, sanchez gets to throw against a complete dogshit d

tebow running plays out of the pocket over under? I'll set it at 12, and will he attempt more passes vs. rushes? Tough call, but we surely know he'll rush more than passes he'll complete!

[spoon]

yet a huge part of me hopes Tebow helps make Matty "right" and has the best game of his entire life this week!

[Kevin]

am i the only one who cant wait for this game tonight? Its going to be some EPIC shit


literally

http://nbcprobasketballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/nba-commissioner-david-stern-talks-to-the-media-prior-to-the-start-of-the-2011-nba-basketball-draft-lottery-meeting-tuesday-may-17-2011-in-secaucus-n-j.jpeg?w=320

[newport king]

will Tebow have more passing or rushing yards tonight?

nothing would make me happier than seeing Denver sending Rex into a fucking rage on the sidelines.

I got Denver +6.5

[spoon]

This odd o they are running (no pun intended) will give them some early fits, but I have to think Rex and the Jets will end up crushing their souls in this one. We might even see Orton by game's end.

[Snoogans]

yet a huge part of me hopes Tebow helps make Matty "right" and has the best game of his entire life this week!

i agree. i want him to throw for 500 yards and 10 TDs. then let matty talk for a week, then tebow blows LIKE HE DOES, and matty looks even dummer, and is sad

[spoon]

one way or the other, it'll be fun for me to watch

I just can't see Tebow doing shit against a half decent d, minus a few qb draws/broken plays (by this I mean Tebow can't see past option 1 on a play) and he runs for a few 15 yarders and gets buried by the safeties and lbs in coverage. I would seriously double Decker and stack the box with outside contain for tebow. My guess is that will lead to a HUGE number of 3 and outs or turnovers once Tebow has to pass more than 4 times a half.

4 times a half! You realize he passed twice per fucking qtr in an NFL GAME! This is a FIRST FUCKING ROUND DRAFT PICK?!

[Snacks]

yet a huge part of me hopes Tebow helps make Matty "right" and has the best game of his entire life this week!

I want tebow to run for 150 yards, 2 tds and throw 4-17 for 77 yards and 2 tds. That would make me so happy!

take denver buy it up to 7 and enjoy the typical boring jets game.

[Snoogans]

one way or the other, it'll be fun for me to watch

I just can't see Tebow doing shit against a half decent d, minus a few qb draws/broken plays (by this I mean Tebow can't see past option 1 on a play) and he runs for a few 15 yarders and gets buried by the safeties and lbs in coverage. I would seriously double Decker and stack the box with outside contain for tebow. My guess is that will lead to a HUGE number of 3 and outs or turnovers once Tebow has to pass more than 4 times a half.

4 times a half! You realize he passed twice per fucking qtr in an NFL GAME! This is a FIRST FUCKING ROUND DRAFT PICK?!

i hope for some reason, theyt just throw at revis the whole game. Just every play, throw at revis. Just to fuck around

[spoon]

i hope for some reason, theyt just throw at revis the whole game. Just every play, throw at revis. Just to fuck around

even better, have Tebow run over him all game

and have a fb out there every time to lay him out

then throw at him after all f'd up and he gets torched by some AWFUL throws and the refs actually call him for PI finally on passes that had no chance being caught

[Snoogans]

even better, have Tebow run over him all game

and have a fb out there every time to lay him out

then throw at him after all f'd up and he gets torched by some AWFUL throws and the refs actually call him for PI finally on passes that had no chance being caught

you are gonna upset the jets PR staff talkin like that

[spoon]

I'll just send them text pics of Farve's dick

[newport king]

http://cdn.inquisitr.com/wp-content/2011/11/tim-tebow-custom-jesus-jersey.jpg

[sailor]

This odd o they are running (no pun intended) will give them some early fits, but I have to think Rex and the Jets will end up crushing their souls in this one. We might even see Orton by game's end.

Agreed. No orton tho.

[newport king]

a 6 point home dog is usually a good bet. just sayin.

[spoon]

we'll see


yet the only way this game won't be hilarious for me is if both Sanchez and Tebow throw the ball like Rodgers and this becomes a fine tuned offensive battle

so yah, no worries

[spoon]

a 6 point home dog is usually a good bet. just sayin.

yah, to me what you're just sayin is dead wrong

but here's to keeping hope

[spoon]

factoring in the fact that New England took it to the Jets last week, I fully expect this game to look very similar to the Detroit/Denver game in terms of score.

[newport king]

short week for the Jets, and playing in Denver. plus jesus loves tebow.

[spoon]

here comes the hands down first ballot HOF game of the year!

[Snoogans]

good start

[spoon]

that's good coverage cro!

don't bother looking, barely get the guy down and then cry to the refs!

JET FOOTBALL!

[spoon]

can't wait!

[Snoogans]

im already bored

[Snacks]

whoever the guy is calling this game is killing me. its bad enough i have to watch this disaster but to listen to a guy who wont shut the fuck up for 2 seconds and talks with a lisp is making this unwatchable.

bad 4th down call. they should have gone tebow up the middle. play took too long to develop.

[spoon]

wow this crew says some fucking stupid shit

i don't have the NFL channel so only local sat night games are broadcast and wow


first they said there is no team worse to prepare for on a short week due due to running the option. Complete bullshit, as there is a reason it's not run in the NFL...and it's not better to prep for a team with almost no passing game and a 4-5 record versus that of an undefeated juggernaut like GB or a smash mouth SF? How about in Pitt or at NE?

For fuck's sake think.


Next, they just said Decker is perfect for that wr passing play bc he played BASEBALL in HS!

[Snoogans]

huge punt

who needs weatherford

[Kevin]

wow this crew says some fucking stupid shit

i don't have the NFL channel so only local sat night games are broadcast and wow


first they said there is no team worse to prepare for on a short week due due to running the option. Complete bullshit, as there is a reason it's not run in the NFL...and it's not better to prep for a team with almost no passing game and a 4-5 record versus that of an undefeated juggernaut like GB or a smash mouth SF? How about in Pitt or at NE?

For fuck's sake think.


Next, they just said Decker is perfect for that wr passing play bc he played BASEBALL in HS!

In fairness

Tebow dreams he can throw the ball that far.

[Snoogans]

wow this crew says some fucking stupid shit

i don't have the NFL channel so only local sat night games are broadcast and wow


first they said there is no team worse to prepare for on a short week due due to running the option. Complete bullshit, as there is a reason it's not run in the NFL...and it's not better to prep for a team with almost no passing game and a 4-5 record versus that of an undefeated juggernaut like GB or a smash mouth SF? How about in Pitt or at NE?

For fuck's sake think.


Next, they just said Decker is perfect for that wr passing play bc he played BASEBALL in HS!

i heard that and was like what the fuck? I hope Decker was a First Baseman in HS and never even threw the fuckin ball

[spoon]

whoever the guy is calling this game is killing me. its bad enough i have to watch this disaster but to listen to a guy who wont shut the fuck up for 2 seconds and talks with a lisp is making this unwatchable.

bad 4th down call. they should have gone tebow up the middle. play took too long to develop.

that's fucking funny shit bc I'm literally annoyed about the same shit

the guy says some DUMB shit


and yah, dumb call on 4th

get the f'n pts as the dog at home and put doubt in NY's head

[Snoogans]

McPhearson couldnt have been this bad

[Snoogans]

i bet epo is loving this

reminds him of the old days at Wisconsin

[spoon]

McPhearson couldnt have been this bad

:lol:

[Snoogans]

what a terrible fuckin offense. Its one thing to run this shit. but even with what they are doing, they are calling dumbass plays

[spoon]

how the fuck did this announcer get a job doing THIS?

[newport king]

John Fox sucks. 4th and inches and u have a qb who is a monster. Sneak that shit.

[Snoogans]

game over, 3-0

[newport king]

I love seeing the top 5 plays. EVERY GOD DAMN BREAK

[spoon]

game over, 3-0

:lol:

holy fuck you're killing me tonight

[Kevin]

John Fox sucks. 4th and inches and u have a qb who is a monster. Sneak that shit.

He's not an athlete its all brains with him.

You don't want to hurt that brain.

[newport king]

Denver should put a call into Tommie Frazier to back up Tebow

[Snoogans]

Denver should put a call into Tommie Frazier to back up Tebow

i think he had his leg amputated, so he is only 50% better than tebow

Maybe they can get Lawrence Phillips outta jail too

somewhere Eric Crouch is pissed

[spoon]

i think he had his leg amputated, so he is only 50% better than tebow

Maybe they can get Lawrence Phillips outta jail too

somewhere Eric Crouch is pissed

i hear Leaf turned over a new him

[Snoogans]

good play by the jets, offensive PI and sanchez throws it 40 yards over everyone

[Snoogans]

this is reminding me of the 99 rams. the yards are piling up so fast its unreal

[Snoogans]

that is some BULLSHIT

[spoon]

bs

[spoon]

how do they take that out of the game!?

fucking Ronnie Lott and Harrison wouldn't have lasted a year in this pussy nfl






they better call everything on Revis now

[Snacks]

how is that hit a flag? he hit him so he wouldnt come down with the catch

[spoon]

how is that hit a flag? he hit him so he wouldnt come down with the catch

u have to hit him nicely dummy

:flush:

[Snoogans]

this is what option football does to you


what???? denver running option on offense made the jets miss a FG?

[newport king]

Tsss tsss thats a FOLK tale or sumptin tss

[Snoogans]

good job willis

[Tenbatsuzen]

this is what option football does to you


what???? denver running option on offense made the jets miss a FG?

You should call a game on Ustream.

[Snoogans]

who had 3 and 0 in the box pool, you are gonna be a rich man


oh wait, this isnt the SB? Im SHOCKED

[Snoogans]

You should call a game on Ustream.

it sure as fuck wouldnt be this one, unless you wanna listen to someone sleeping

[Snoogans]

Herm Edwards just smiled. THATS THE WAY TO WASTE TIME OUTS, BABY

[Kevin]

Herm Edwards just smiled. THATS THE WAY TO WASTE TIME OUTS, BABY

Andy Reid told one of the kids that too.

[spoon]

:lol:

seriously, what is going on with you tonight!?

did you go to Kevin's Albanian comedy class? nm, i laughed so that can't be true


oh and this fucking awful

how do you not just kick it there and tie the game on the road, esp since it's pts off the to

[spoon]

thus far, 3 passes and 0 runs for tebow!

you know a shit ton of qb rushes are on the way bc he's probably starting to shake

[Tenbatsuzen]

:lol:

seriously, what is going on with you tonight!?

did you go to Kevin's Albanian comedy class? nm, i laughed so that can't be true


oh and this fucking awful

how do you not just kick it there and tie the game on the road, esp since it's pts off the to

Speaking of albanian comedy, Seinfeld, while on Letterman last night, did 2 minutes on *69, a function no one has used since the Clinton administration.

[spoon]

man, they wonder why people can't stand the guy

keep shoving bullshit down our throats

[newport king]

Mother fucker

[Tenbatsuzen]

speaking of which, I'm drinking Guinness Black Lager, which is very, very good.

[Snoogans]

thus far, 3 passes and 0 runs for tebow!

you know a shit ton of qb rushes are on the way bc he's probably starting to shake

i bet you fox got a little nervous to run tebow after the shot bard scott put on him

[spoon]

speaking of which, I'm drinking Guinness Black Lager, which is very, very good.

really?

haven't tried it yet

two questions

anything like reg guiness? bc if so I'm not going to waste my time

and if not, what is roughly like?

[Snoogans]

really?

haven't tried it yet

two questions

anything like reg guiness? bc if so I'm not going to waste my time

and if not, what is roughly like?

if its lager, it wouldnt be like guiness, it would be like normal beer thickness and shit. I bet it still sucks. cause guiness blows

[Snoogans]

jesus sanchez, panic a little worse. He even shuffled his fuckin feet before unloading that gem

[spoon]

if its lager, it wouldnt be like guiness, it would be like normal beer thickness and shit. I bet it still sucks. cause guiness blows

it's a black lager shaun, I'm assuming it's a hybrid of sorts to put the guiness stamp on it

hence the reason I'm asking

[Tenbatsuzen]

really?

haven't tried it yet

two questions

anything like reg guiness? bc if so I'm not going to waste my time

and if not, what is roughly like?

It's basically a bastard child of Yuengling and Guinness. Same color as Guinness, but not as foamy.

It's a lot smoother than Guinness, and not as thick.

Basically, it's what Guinness would be if it was a lawnmower beer. Very refreshing, it's probably the most refreshing beer I've had that's this dark.

They also recommend drinking it ice cold, and it only had about 20 mins in the freezer before I started drinking it, so I'll review it a little more once I have another one that's cold tomorrow.

[Snoogans]

it's a black lager shaun, I'm assuming it's a hybrid of sorts to put the guiness stamp on it

hence the reason I'm asking

thats fuckin horrifying

[Snacks]

and thats why tebow CANT be an NFL qb. He cant even make a basic throw to an open wr with no pressure.

[Tenbatsuzen]

And why you never trust the beer guy:

He said it was Guinness's version of Heineken. It's nothing like Heineken.

I'm also going to review Full Sail's Premium Lager when I pick it up.

[Snoogans]

i watch alot of dogshit football games as a college football fan. I sat through fuckin FIU and North Texas on CBS college sports one night.

This is fuckin BAD football right now. on the surface its bad, but if you start also looking into deeper things like execution and individual players doing what they should, no one has a fuckin clue tonight. On either side

[Kevin]

Another terrible call in favor of the Jets.

Hey refs stop taking their goddamn money.

[Tenbatsuzen]

i watch alot of dogshit football games as a college football fan. I sat through fuckin FIU and North Texas on CBS college sports one night.

This is fuckin BAD football right now. on the surface its bad, but if you start also looking into deeper things like execution and individual players doing what they should, no one has a fuckin clue tonight. On either side

Jets at least have an excuse. Late Sunday, one walkthrough, then long travel? I mean, not a great excuse, but still.

[Snoogans]

no way thats a fuckin catch

[Snoogans]

Jets at least have an excuse. Late Sunday, one walkthrough, then long travel? I mean, not a great excuse, but still.

minus the travel, its not like denver had four months to prepare.

even still, by the 10th game, you should know enough about your own gameplan that you at least are doing the right assignment

[newport king]

You still think Rex thinks theyre a superbowl caliber team?

[Snoogans]

his first foot had slid out of bounds before his second toe touched. thats a terrible call

[newport king]

Hahahaha mangold

[Snoogans]

first ballot HOF snap right htere

[Kevin]

That was a Mangoldian hand off.

[Snacks]

H O F

[spoon]

his first foot had slid out of bounds before his second toe touched. thats a terrible call

right, tough on the ref so I won't go nuts on them

however, no challenges for denver bc the vid review wasn't done right/they don't know the fucking rules? not to mention, denver/fox was right both times

[Snoogans]

i cant wait to see denvers 2 minute drill

[newport king]

Go RIGHT AT revis on this drive. Nobody is expecting it

[Snoogans]

5 passes and denver has managed to drop 2 already.

[newport king]

Well its not like theyre used to passes thrown their way

[Snoogans]

just like marino

[Snoogans]

yea good idea, dont throw a hail mary, let the guy who proved he cant hit that try

[spoon]

wow

that half was pretty much everything I expected of these two offensive beasts!

[newport king]

Im so happy i have money on this

[Snacks]

how is sanchez 14-17? to me he has looked like shit and missed a lot more then 3 passes!

[Snoogans]

ive never been so happy to watch a halftime show

[Snoogans]

what was the over under on this game, 21?

[Snacks]

this game looks like one of those games you would see in a rainy, shitty muddy field not one that looks like its being played in pretty great weather!

[spoon]

this game looks like one of those games you would see in a rainy, shitty muddy field not one that looks like its being played in pretty great weather!

with one difference, those games are watchable!

if it wasn't Thursday, nobody would be watching this at all

I'd rather watch Indy/Cleveland or St. Louis/Minny.

[newport king]

How does Schottenheimer still have a job in this league? And do they realize how good Keller is? Like every year they go to him early, then forget about him

[spoon]

How does Schottenheimer still have a job in this league? And do they realize how good Keller is? Like every year they go to him early, then forget about him

let me guess, keller is on your fantasy team right?

[Snoogans]

luckiest team in the nfl

[newport king]

No, had him the last 2 yrs

[spoon]

luckiest team in the nfl

unreal

[newport king]

I was late getting back from the half, howd they get it on the 2?

[spoon]

ooof

i could make that throw with hockey gloves on

[spoon]

ooof

i could make that throw with hockey gloves on

there's one for sanchez

[spoon]

I was late getting back from the half, howd they get it on the 2?

3rd Quarter
Denver - 15:00
Denver kicked off, touchback
NY Jets - 15:00
1st-10, NYJ20 15:00 M. Sanchez passed to P. Burress down the middle for 30 yard gain
1st-10, 50 14:31 J. McKnight rushed to the right for 7 yard gain
2nd-3, DEN43 13:54 J. McKnight rushed up the middle for 3 yard gain
1st-10, DEN40 13:15 Denver committed 5 yard penalty
1st-10, DEN35 13:10 M. Sanchez passed to P. Burress to the left for 9 yard gain
2nd-1, DEN26 12:31 M. Sanchez passed to P. Burress to the left for 13 yard gain
1st-10, DEN13 11:48 M. Sanchez passed to J. McKnight to the right for 12 yard gain
1st-1, DEN1 11:12 M. Sanchez incomplete pass to the left
2nd-1, DEN1 10:57 B. Powell rushed up the middle for no gain. B. Powell fumbled. M. Slauson recovered fumble and returned for 1 yard. N. Folk made PAT

like that


and wow

that pass was even better

what a show being put on here

they are simply not letting us down

[Snacks]

there is the sanchez that im forced to watch weekly.

[cougarjake13]

way to go sanchize !!!

[spoon]

there is the sanchez that im forced to watch weekly.

you really need to open up limelight 2 now so you can get the ticket and stop putting yourself through hell every fucking week :surrender:

[Kevin]

Just when we thought we would be dissapointed

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lpdwyzACFL1qjys7d.gif

SANCHIZE COMES THROUGH.

[Kevin]

And now joe mcknight

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lpdwyzACFL1qjys7d.gif

[spoon]

mcknight is a solid fundamentals guy huh?

does he ever hold on to the ball?

[cougarjake13]

it's a black lager shaun, I'm assuming it's a hybrid of sorts to put the guiness stamp on it

hence the reason I'm asking

tasted a lot like sam adams to me

[spoon]

wow this is quite a display



without the back story we developed here over time with Matty, this game would be unwatchable

however, I'm delighted to watch this atrocious display bc of it!



:thumbup:

[spoon]

i thought tebow was going to get pulled, any chance we'll see sanchez yanked?

now they even have the "injured" excuse in play to protect him with the media/fans, at the same time telling him the real reason and sending a message

he's no kid any longer

[Snacks]

mcknight is a solid fundamentals guy huh?

does he ever hold on to the ball?

yeah but lucky jets usually turn their own mistakes into scores.

[Kevin]

Come on man, you can't be serious with this guy at QB.

He is the worst i have ever seen, by far.

And that includes Sanchez.

[spoon]

more great clock management there



oh and the crew just said 3/18 on 3rd down bt the teams tonight and "there are a couple different ways of looking at that". NO, there isn't here in this game.

Nice false start AFTER an offensive time out there!

they are now 3/19 bc the offenses are both AWFUL and the qbs at work are fucking pathetic! are they even alluding to the fact that these defenses are the root cause?!

HA! :lol:

:wallbash:

[spoon]

Come on man, you can't be serious with this guy at QB.

He is the worst i have ever seen, by far.

And that includes Sanchez.

COME ON KEV!

Tebow continues to progress and the stats prove it. He has already (only 3 qtrs in) TRIPLED his completions in just one week!

[Kevin]

A graduate of the Albanian Comedy school.

Hippos..

Sanchez's nickname should be Lotto , because he is all about the Pick 6

[spoon]

A graduate of the Albanian Comedy school.

Hippos..

Sanchez's nickname should be Lotto , because he is all about the Pick 6

:flush:

[spoon]

4 for 20 on third!

[spoon]

5 for 21!

play a little deeper free safety!

way to just let them have that one denver

[newport king]

I understant your offense sucks but dont run it from the back of the endzone out to the 6

[spoon]

really? what happened to this being a NIGHTMARE game to prep for NFL announcer?

Now we sing the praises of the army coach bc Tebow can't hit an open wr and the Broncos run a ridiculously simplistic and high school like offense?

[spoon]

I understant your offense sucks but dont run it from the back of the endzone out to the 6

that's a HUGE gain for the team!

[Kevin]

http://cache.ohinternet.com/images/thumb/7/73/JeanLucPicardFacepalm.jpg/618px-JeanLucPicardFacepalm.jpg

Im not a Bronco fan and I'm getting angry at this.

I do not understand how a pro franchise can justify having this guy at QB.

[spoon]

this has truly turned into a battle of 3 and outs, and the Jets are only winning bc Denver's D is almost as bad as their O!

I fully expect a drive by the jets here to go up 10 though. Not sure why.

[spoon]

Watching this game is exactly what I imagine showering with Jerry Sandusky would be like.

[spoon]

what a pussy play call there

you have a shot to get into fg range at least and you hand it off at mid field up 3 on 3rd and 14

[Kevin]

Watching this game is exactly what I imagine showering with Jerry Sandusky would be like.

Im pretty sure Jerry scored a bunch of times though.

[Snoogans]

hey i dont know if you guys caught those top 5 plays they show EVERY commercial, good stuff

[newport king]

Watching on ch11 couldnt take the top5 anymore

[Snacks]

im watching on the nfl network, what is this top 5 you are talking about?

watching tebow throw the ball is like watching a pick up game with a bunch of friends playing and that 1 friend who thinks hes good and has to play qb but throws like shit.

[spoon]

i'm on 11 and have no idea either



and wow Jets, you fucking deserve this



Tebow is going to run every other play at this point

[spoon]

i am however suffering through orakpo geico commercials every break

[newport king]

Just dont get orakpoed here

[spoon]

oh that and I think I've developed a lisp

[spoon]

i am however suffering through orakpo geico commercials every break

Just dont get orakpoed here

Ha!

[newport king]

A pancake social sounds delicious

[newport king]

Yes!

[Snacks]

Tebow, Tebow, Tebow, Tebow, Tebow, Tebow, Tebow

[Snoogans]

awesome

[spoon]

not that ihop bs pancake


oh and ENOUGH with the Tebow Time, Tebow in jail, tebow everything...can this channel help themselves? I bet they said his name more than the record for Favre in a single game.

ha, you just knew this would happen

[Kevin]

TEBOW!!!!!

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lpdwyzACFL1qjys7d.gif

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lpdwyzACFL1qjys7d.gif

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lpdwyzACFL1qjys7d.gif

[spoon]

man are the jets an AWFUL blitzing team

they have to bring the whole fucking team even to get pressure

[newport king]

This kid is a winner. No idea what u fools are talking about

[Snacks]

Tebow is my new fav player in the league I want a Tebow jersey!

[spoon]

he's still AWFUL!

[cougarjake13]

Tebowing Fucking Christ !!!!

[newport king]

Tebow looks like wolverine. Except more awesome

[spoon]

Tebow is my new fav player in the league I want a Tebow jersey!

i'm with you! This is HILARIOUS!



wait wait, did he just call this adn the last 3 games as "MAGICAL GAMES"?! FUCK that's terrible.

[Kevin]

he's still AWFUL!

Damn right he is.

But AWESOME

[keithy_19]

Tebowing Fucking Christ !!!!

:lol:

[Snoogans]

sanchez is awesome

[spoon]

one plus with the NFL coverage, no fucking fireman ed shots


is he not there or something, bc he gets shown at every fucking game





instead, he was phased out bc of God's favorite qb and horse teeth